2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Rogue Jedi]

5 hours ago, dyst said:

The circle of life mediocrity. Every year we win an extra 2 or 3 meaningless games to get to that coveted 7-9 win threshold. Then come draft time we either have to settle for players that aren't game-changers or we have to beg the question "should the Redskins trade a ton of picks to move up?". 

 

This x100.

 

We perpetually finish in the 5-11 to 8-8 range, which always leaves us outside the top 10 in the draft, missing out on any blue chip game-changers.

 

It is due to how our front office operates. They believe we are always a few pieces away to compete, grab some band-aid players through free agency, and trot out a mediocre team opening day. We win enough games early on to still try and salvage the season, then completely implode in Nov/Dec. And then, the cycle continues.

 

I don't think this team has ever had a proper rebuild in my 30 years watching.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[method man]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah to me that's crazy. Why would a team give up on a top 10 QB pick after one season? Yeah, he had an underwhelming rookie season but it wasn't awful by rookie standards. He'd hardly be the first rookie who was thrown to the wolves and threw for a couple more INTs than TDs during his first season. And it's not like he had a good surrounding cast...his OL was absolutely dreadful. Hell, even Ryan Leaf and Heath Shuler got a couple of seasons before getting the boot. 

 

I could maybe understand it if there was an absolute stud generational QB talent in this draft, but there isn't. Murray has some really good skills but he also has some legit question marks. And if they did take Murray, they'd have to figure out what to do with Rosen. I really don't see it happening. 

 

It is because Murray is a perfect fit for Kliff Kingsbury's scheme while Rosen isn't. 

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, method man said:

 

It is because Murray is a perfect fit for Kliff Kingsbury's scheme while Rosen isn't. 

Yeah... in college. Air Raid doesn't work in NFL. 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, method man said:

 

It is because Murray is a perfect fit for Kliff Kingsbury's scheme while Rosen isn't. 

 

Any QB can perform in an Air Raid system. That's one of the reasons so many college offenses use it. 

 

And Kingsbury would certainly be putting his ass on the line by coming in and making his first move to get rid of their top 10 QB draft pick from the previous season. He'd have to sell that move to Keim and the rest of the Cards FO as well. I just don't really see it happening.

[Skin'emAlive]

If we somehow come out of this draft with Grier, a starting LG, and a huge TE ( like Foster Moreau), I will be ecstatic, 

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

If we somehow come out of this draft with Grier, a starting LG, and a huge TE ( like Foster Moreau), I will be ecstatic, 

 

Not necessarily Grier but I wouldn't be too unhappy with what you've suggested.

 

I know there is a lot of smoke and mirrors, but Gruden has indicated that we aren't purging the roster and we are preparing to start with McCoy as things stand. Doug also saying that in his view our starting LG is not on the roster. Well the FA market isn't too clever at G so that implies draft to me.

 

Get me a QB, LG, CB and edge with our first four picks please. I'd love Moreau on day three. Snag another under the radar ILB on day three as well, I suspect we really like SDH on our roster. Sign Landon Collins. 

 

WR, not sure yet. FA market sucks and is over priced. Maybe we have to go their on day two by acquiring another pick by sliding back from #15.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

When I first listened to Doug yesterday I thought he got better at cloaking their intentions than last year.  But sleeping on his comments and Jay's comments and everything else.  It feels again like they are telegraphing a need based draft again -- they justify it internally I bet by saying BPA and need converge as to the drafts strengths.  And to some extent that's true.  But last year they sort of gave away their overall game plan at least for the first two rounds.  And it played out just that way.  I think we got an idea this time, too.

 

Round 1, Round 2:  Best QB, best pass rusher, best LG.  They play the BPA card but focused on those 3 positions.  Wildcard is if someone they love unexpectedly falls -- lets say they love Devin White or whomever so in that case they do that. 

 

They aren't trading up. However, I'll say I never thought the FO would be in favor of trading up for a QB.  I always though that would come from an antsy Dan.  So I still think they might in spite of Doug's comments. 

 

My guess is in the first round we will be taking someone among:  Drew Lock, Daniel Jones, Clelin Ferrell, M. Sweat, J. Taylor, C. Ford.  Doing the math 1-2 of these guys has to fall to 15.  The math doesn't work out for all of them to be taken.  I am off of Burns and Polite because thinking about their style they tend to prefer well rounder edge rushers who can stop the run, too.  

 

I think their game plan at Qb is to see if in their mind they get lucky and Lock or Jones fall to 15 and if so they'd take them.  What makes me think that is Doug saying there is a possibility that someone falls at QB that they like in that 15 range based on scenarios they've considered.   I think pass rusher is a given in the first or 2nd.   The wild card is them taking a QB in FA like Bridgewater.  That would throw I think the first round QB out the window but not the 3rd round or later idea.  They kept talking safety too but my guess is they do that in FA.     My fear is they can't get over their Alabama fetish and take D. Thompson early but hoping his injury scares them off some. 

 

So my guess is three scenarios

 

1st. QB (Lock or Jones if they fall)

2nd pass rusher

3rd.  OG & QB

 

1st. pass rusher

2nd.  OG

3rd.  QB, WR, or S

 

1st:  OG

2nd:  pass rusher

3rd:  QB, WR, or S

 

 

 

[skinsmania123]

8 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

If we somehow come out of this draft with Grier, a starting LG, and a huge TE ( like Foster Moreau), I will be ecstatic, 

I was super negative about this draft class of QB's but I find myself, after watching tape on Grier that he is not bad.  Not first round.  2nd round pick with upside.  Helluva of an arm.

 

I would be happy if we come out with Greedy Williams - 1st pick.  If he is gone I would go LG.  But after Ford there is a drop off in talent IMO.   

 

If we do not get help at receiver that is our 3rd round pick or a FS.   

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

When I first listened to Doug yesterday I thought he got better at cloaking their intentions than last year.  But sleeping on his comments and Jay's comments and everything else.  It feels again like they are telegraphing a need based draft again -- they justify it internally I bet by saying BPA and need converge as to the drafts strengths.  And to some extent that's true.  But last year they sort of gave away their overall game plan at least for the first two rounds.  And it played out just that way.  I think we got an idea this time, too.

 

 

To your point, inside this article pretty much lays out their thinking - some in FA and obviously what to look for in the draft.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/redskins-nfl-combine-why-joining-adrian-peterson-derrius-guice-and-chris-thompson-warrants

 

* Gruden and Williams rolled out similar laundry lists of roster holes beyond quarterback: Safety, inside linebacker, edge rusher, guard, wide receiver.

 

You might be nodding along because those are the need areas. That those two agree is important because outside opinions do not always match internal thinking.

 

“Safety is a major priority for us,” Gruden said as he began ticking off positional weaknesses. “Inside linebacker is an issue. Pass rusher with Preston (Smith) being a free agent is obviously a priority for us without a doubt. Offensive linemen, we already know that’s a priority. We know quarterbacks an issue, we know receiver is an issue, so we need to upgrade our entire roster. We’re going to add players to every position, add competition, that’s what’s going to make us good.”

 

* Gruden specifically mentioned adding a bigger receiver to the mix to join speed threat Paul Richardson. Slot receiver Jamison Crowder is another free agent.

 

* Washington arguably needs two starting safeties. Williams said the team would re-evaluate free agent Ha Ha Clinton-Dix now that there are new members of the coaching staff.

 

* The Redskins need a left guard. We know this. At times over the last two seasons, it’s been unclear if the Redskins agreed considering they did little to address the positional hole other tan to keep trotting out injury-prone Shawn Lauvao. That changed Thursday. When asked, Williams said he did not believe a starter existed on the roster.

 

Washington remains in limbo concerning ILB Reuben Foster’s future, Gruden said, as the team as yet to hear from the league on whether any disciplinary actions are forthcoming.

 

* That these needs exist is why Williams pushed back somewhat on any idea of the Redskins trading away draft selections in pursuit of a quarterback.

 

“We’ve got a lot more needs on this football team than to say we can give up two or three picks and pick one guy and think we’re going to have the football team that we hope to have,” Williams said. “We have to use our picks wisely and make sure we’ve got guys who are coming here that can help us build this football team a lot better than it is.”

[HigSkin]

Not sure why but...

 

 

[Burgold]

18 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

 

“Safety is a major priority for us,” Gruden said as he began ticking off positional weaknesses. “Inside linebacker is an issue. Pass rusher with Preston (Smith) being a free agent is obviously a priority for us without a doubt. Offensive linemen, we already know that’s a priority. We know quarterbacks an issue, we know receiver is an issue, so we need to upgrade our entire roster. We’re going to add players to every position, add competition, that’s what’s going to make us good.”

I read this and think back to the Redskins brass saying that the team is "close" and shake my head. Can't have it both ways, can you?

 

We have weaknesses everywhere, but we're really close to be a championship team!

[SemperFi Skins]

#NFLCombine key measurements thread…

179. #Houston DT Ed Oliver
Height: 6-1 7/8
Weight: 287
Hand: 9 2/8
Arm: 31 6/8
Wingspan: 77 3/8

 

 

#NFLCombine key measurements thread…#Clemson DT Dexter Lawrence
Height: 6-4 4/8
Weight: 342
Hand: 10 4/8
Arm: 34 6/8
Wingspan: 84

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Ed Oliver's arm length is tiny.  He's gotta be drafted to the right scheme.  If he's not a 1 gap penetrator, that's just foolish.

 

I think he's off our board at #15.  No way our coaches shift their scheme that much.

 

@Skinsinparadise (am I doing the call out right)

 

I don't think we go Guard at #15.  Gruden has vocally criticized the Scherff selection saying you need impact players.  He likes Sherff, but it's clear he thinks Guards are not worth that much draft capital.  I'm betting he feels the same way at #15 as he did picking at #5.

 

I think for this draft, the 2nd round is a bit of a sweet spot for OL talent.  Someone good will be there at #46.

 

If we are not trading up for a QB.  Maybe we can trade down a few spots and still grab one?

 

The mention for a bigger receiver opposite Paul Richardson.  What the **** is going on?  Paul is injury prone, you can't act like you can rely on him.  Doctson is in the last year and hasn't developed, true.  But big receivers that can't separate don't function in Jay's offense.  Every QB we have goes through the progressions the same way.  That's gotta be coaching and scheme.  Throwing 50/50 balls can't happen if the QB is coached to look off that route because the receiver doesn't have good leverage.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

23 hours ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Haskins or Murray.... 

I agree....and I'm willing to trade up in order to get them too.

[PlayAction]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

* Washington arguably needs two starting safeties. Williams said the team would re-evaluate free agent Ha Ha Clinton-Dix now that there are new members of the coaching staff.

 

It will be interesting to see how the new coaching staff evaluates the DBs.  Is Adonis Alexander better suited to S?  Does Troy Apke have potential as a solid backup or even a situational starter?  Will Nicholson still be on the team?  Everett is good on special teams but he's not a starter.  The first two guys are rookies with limited time on the field so it may be best to pick up a veteran safety in free agency. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, skinsmania123 said:

I was super negative about this draft class of QB's but I find myself, after watching tape on Grier that he is not bad.  Not first round.  2nd round pick with upside.  Helluva of an arm.

 

I would be happy if we come out with Greedy Williams - 1st pick.  If he is gone I would go LG.  But after Ford there is a drop off in talent IMO.   

 

If we do not get help at receiver that is our 3rd round pick or a FS.   

 

 

I don't think Grier will go in the 1st but IMO he's far better than Daniel Jones who's being talked about as a top 15 pick (to us in many mocks....ugh). Not really sure why he's undervalued so much. In tons of metric comparison charts (many of which have been posted here) Grier is almost always right there in 2nd place behind Murray. And that can't just be put down to competition level and system...he and Murray are both Big 12 QBs and both play in very similar Air Raid offenses. 

 

It's interesting that you say "hell of an arm" for Grier...that really underscores some of the borderline schizophrenic takes on him so far in this process. Some people say he has a weak arm, some say he has a really good arm. Personally, after watching his cutups, I think he has a good but not great arm. Certainly not at the level of a Lock or Josh Allen but certainly not a Pennington either. I think he'll pretty much have average arm strength for the NFL game. I don't think he'll have a problem making all the throws at the next level and there are more important things for a QB than having a howitzer. It's nice to have but there are plenty of other things that trump it IMO.

[PlayAction]

13 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

I don't think we go Guard at #15.  Gruden has vocally criticized the Scherff selection saying you need impact players.  He likes Sherff, but it's clear he thinks Guards are not worth that much draft capital.  I'm betting he feels the same way at #15 as he did picking at #5.

 

I think for this draft, the 2nd round is a bit of a sweet spot for OL talent.  Someone good will be there at #46.

 

The mention for a bigger receiver opposite Paul Richardson.  What the **** is going on?  Paul is injury prone, you can't act like you can rely on him.  Doctson is in the last year and hasn't developed, true.  But big receivers that can't separate don't function in Jay's offense.  Every QB we have goes through the progressions the same way.  That's gotta be coaching and scheme.  Throwing 50/50 balls can't happen if the QB is coached to look off that route because the receiver doesn't have good leverage.

 

Yeah the second round is the sweet spot for OL but it's also the sweet spot for some WRs.  I hope Gruden is blowing smoke on the type of WR - perhaps he wants teams to think that the Skins would target Metcalf in the first round?  I'm coming back to my original need-based goals:  Edge, TE, WR and Guard with the first four picks.  Fortunately, the needs align with the relative talent available.  I don't want the Skins to select any QB in the first three rounds unless they think that the player truly has the potential to become a long-term starter.  Otherwise it's better to just fill a backup QB need in rounds 5-7 (Eagles did a good job of filling their #3 QB but stealing the Skins practice squad player).  

 

[HigSkin]

 

https://www.rotoworld.com/college-football/nfl-draft/player/38064/phil-haynes

 

Wake Forest G Phil Haynes recorded 33 reps on the bench press at the NFL Scouting Combine.

Haynes (6'4/322) placed third among offensive linemen with his 33 reps on the bench press, topped only by Weber State's Iosua Opeta (39) and NC State's Garrett Bradbury (34). He impressed at the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl back in January, when Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline referred to him as "far and away" the best prospect on hand in for what was a mostly forgettable assortment of game participants. Pauline views Haynes as a likely selection for the middle rounds on Day 3 when all is said and done.

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

“Safety is a major priority for us,” Gruden said as he began ticking off positional weaknesses. 

 

 * Gruden specifically mentioned adding a bigger receiver to the mix to join speed threat Paul Richardson. Slot receiver Jamison Crowder is another free agent.

 

Landon Collins and Devin Funchess in free agency would sort that.

 

Regarding QB, seems like McCoy is in the box seat and the job appears his to lose at present. If we avoid any notable vets in FA, would you consider drafting two QB this year? What is the point of having a repeat of the Josh Johnson or Dirty Sanchez experience. None at all.

 

If we like a QB at #15, take him. Then go again, maybe at the end of the third round, or even take a flyer in say the 5th. Get two rookies in behind McCoy and see what goes. At least that will be a positive investment in some young QBs.

 

For me, it's more than finding a starter at QB. We actually need a couple of viable back-ups as well. Get a couple of rookies in and get them to work.

 

Its been largely debated that this was a poor QB class, however the fact remains that the draft is a lottery. So called expect opinion is all over the place in some instance over this QB class.

 

So maybe we should draft a couple again. It's not overkill. Would it be a bad thing if we came out of the draft with say Jones/Lock and Stidham or Rypien.

 

Pick your combination, might be a sound investment whilst we see out the Alex Smith contract and probably let McCoy play his final year here.

[skinny21]

Interesting... I’ve done a few mock drafts (with a couple different sites) the past two days, and coming here to muse on my “findings” I find they dovetail nicely with recent posts.  

 

For the most part, here’s what I was seeing as the best value range for various positions.  I left off IDL primarily because we have tons of bigger needs.  

 

Position/Rounds with best value:

OL 1-2

Edge 1-2

Corner 1-2

S 2-3

Qb 1 or 3-5

TE 2-5

Wr 2-5

ILB 3-5

Rb 2-6

 

I also found that I was consistently wishing I had one more pick in that 3rd-5th range, and I was often doubling up on receiver, TE, or back if I took one early (2nd or 3rd) because there were nice talents available at those positions in the 5th and even 6th.  

 

With the exception of the one time Murray was available, and ditto Oliver, I wasn’t super impressed with the choices at 15.  Obviously, that could

make trading down more difficult, but the benefit of adding a mid round pick (especially if it’s a 3rd of course) is big, IMO.  

 

Other random thoughts:

Maybe Gruden’s words about a big receiver are partly to improve the blocking on the outside.  Personally, I’d far prefer a speedster - Ridley/Hall, or a guy I know can separate - Samuels/Isabella (there’s crossover there of course).  

 

The more I think about it, I don’t think I’d mind trading next year’s 1st to move up for Murray.  2 caveats to this though.  1) I’d probably only do this if I could get a 5th or better back in this draft.  2) I’d feel more comfortable with this if we thought we’d get comp picks next year for letting Crowder and Smith walk.  In other words, if we don’t plan on signing big FAs this year.  

In essence, we’d wind up with Murray, an additional solid talent in the 5th, and (hopefully) two 3-5th round picks next year in exchange for two 1sts.  

 

@UK SKINS FAN '74 - I’m down with going back to the qb well in the 5th or so.  

 

I’d avoid WR in FA because I don’t think the value is there considering the promising prospects in the drafts (as late as the 5th).  Per my opinion above - S and Guard are the two positions I might address in FA as I believe otherwise we’d probably need to spend early picks to find potential starters.  With that said, if we free up a good amount of cap space (and don’t blow most of it on a qb), Funchess does seem like a pretty good fit for what Gruden is looking for.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

30 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Landon Collins and Devin Funchess in free agency would sort that.

 

I'm not sure how.  They'd hurt the cap pretty fiercely. 

 

Collins is a great box safety that can handle flat/under zones well.  He struggles in Cover 2 and can't do Man.  He's unfortunately not as versatile as Swearinger who we cut.  He'd also cost a boatload, and we don't have the personnel to fit him in seamlessly.

 

Funchess is similar to Doctson.  Why pay more for more of the same?   http://pfref.com/tiny/dPsoU

				Receiving
Rk	Player	Year	G	Rec	Yds	TD	Y/R	Lng
1	Josh Doctson	2018	15	44	532	2	12.1	32
2	Devin Funchess	2018	14	44	549	4	12.5	27

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

29 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I

Other random thoughts:

Maybe Gruden’s words about a big receiver are partly to improve the blocking on the outside.  Personally, I’d far prefer a speedster - Ridley/Hall, or a guy I know can separate - Samuels/Isabella (there’s crossover there of course).  

 

 

Doug also went that to play Z on this team, you need to be able to block, so that wouldn't fit a smaller guy like Richardson.  am I missing something on that -- didn't Richardson actually play some Z?   Doctson played mostly X and Richardson Z from what I noticed.

[Skinsinparadise]

Lock has a lot of attributes that fit Jay Gruden and his offense. He has good size, a powerful arm and athleticism with the ability to use his feet to make plays. The Redskins also like Lock's intelligence, as he is a smart quarterback despite a revolving door at offensive coordinator during his collegiate career. Washington likes the swagger and confidence that Lock possess and believes that he has leadership potential. 

The Redskins may have to move up to make sure they get a quarterback. With two third-round picks, they have some extra ammunition to trade. According to sources, the Redskins like all four of the top quarterbacks with Murray, Haskins, Jones, and Lock all being in play. While some of the other quarterbacks may go earlier, Lock has garnered interest from the Redskins, and he is in play for Washington's first selection.  

Read more: http://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Redskins-Have-Interest-in-Drew-Lock#ixzz5gwZvGWlU
 

[skinny21]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Doug also went that to play Z on this team, you need to be able to block, so that wouldn't fit a smaller guy like Richardson.  am I missing something on that -- didn't Richardson actually play some Z?   Doctson played mostly X and Richardson Z from what I noticed.

Yeah, I mean, did getting Richardson make sense if this was the case?

 

Just did a Draft Network mock that fits with this post (IMO), and I’m thinking you’d like it.  Lock in the first, and Sills for the Z. 

1st - Lock

2nd - Risner (still haven’t watched OL, but from what I’ve read, this is a very good pick)

3rd - Thornhill (love this pick)

3rd - Sternberger (ditto)

5th - Darwin Thompson

5th - Jessie Aniebonam (little late for an edge player, but...)

6th - Terril Hanks

7th - Greg Dortch (competition for the slot and kick/punt returner)