markmills67 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 59 minutes ago, Rogue Jedi said: Lol I hope Snyder and Jay go all in for Murray. At least the Skins will be fun to watch again regardless of our W/L record. He will definitely go back to baseball if we draft him. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 37 minutes ago, crabbypatty said: It seems awfully short sighted to me to tank a season, and wait in the hopes of getting a guy who may or may not have a good/great season next year, based off of how they played last year. Risky yes but don't agree with the short sighted part. I think their greatest risk is actually losing more of their fan base some of which seems to be checking out. I get the criticisms of waiting for 2020 (I shared that view myself initially this year) but I would say if anything its taking the long view to wait to 2020. If you take BPA in 2019 versus forcing a QB that you aren't sold on -- I wouldn't do that. I am not saying you are suggesting it goes down that way. But my point is it really all depends on how it plays out. To me context is everything. If you do wait for 2020, you are building a roster for a Qb to come in and hopefully succeed and if you love a QB and have to trade up, you probably wouldn't have to give up as much draft capitol in 2020 than you would this year considering they likely have a higher pick to jump up from and with more options in 2020. But agree we don't know that for sure. But the draft is all about playing the odds anyway versus having concrete answers. 37 minutes ago, crabbypatty said: They HAVE to get a qb one way or another. There are teams (especially our team) who for many years at different times have had to get a QB but the want and the result often don't work seamlessly together. For example, what if they agree with a good chunk of draft geeks who say there are only two bonafide franchise Qbs in this draft and they are both going top 5. Do you trade the farm to go up and get one? Do you ride with someone who you don't love but hope that they work out anyway? I wouldn't force a decision on it one way or another. So for that reason I don't think they have to get a QB. In theory I am a 2020 draft guy because I am not sure about any QB landing at 15 who is likely a franchise guy and i am doubting they trade up big into the top 5. So I think the cards just end up working that way the most seamlessly. However, if for example Murray drops to 9 and they are willing to trade up and love him then do it. Or if they feel that way about Lock and think he's the dude or whomever then go get him. If they don't, then don't. Pass rushers don't fall out of the sky so for example if they think Polite is a stud pass rusher and Jones or Lock they like but don't love then take Polite IMO. To me taking a next tier type QB that some in the building aren't that sold on would feel very Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Christian Ponder, etc to me. That's my key thing to avoid. So I am hoping they don't feel desperate at all to take a Qb in this draft or at least not early. I don't care what they do after the first round on that count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 2 hours ago, HigSkin said: Yeah i posted something similar if I recall on the QB thread from listening to Hoffman over the weekend. I am intrigued that they like him. And i like that they do. question is will he be available where they'd have a shot at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Yeah i posted something similar if I recall on the QB thread from listening to Hoffman over the weekend. I am intrigued that they like him. And i like that they do. question is will he be available where they'd have a shot at him. I'd be very surprised if they traded up for any QB in this draft. It just doesn't feel like there is any over-all consensus and teams are desperately searching for the next Mahomes because they missed on it 2 years ago. I was listening to Louis Riddick this morning who was asked what guy he'd be watching. He said Stidham because the kid is a sleeper like Mahomes and does a really good job running a west coast offense. He thinks he'll be special in a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Jones reminds me of Dak Prescott. I don't mean that as a bad thing per se. You can win with that model, provided the supporting cast (defense and running game) are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 25 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said: Jones reminds me of Dak Prescott. I don't mean that as a bad thing per se. You can win with that model, provided the supporting cast (defense and running game) are there. To me a slightly less athletic, more turnover prone version of Dak. I am not a big Dak guy so i don't have an issue with that comparison. My gut is he will have a worse career than Dak. Maybe I'll change my mind after watching him in the combine but right now am not a Jones guy. 28 minutes ago, HigSkin said: I'd be very surprised if they traded up for any QB in this draft. It just doesn't feel like there is any over-all consensus and teams are desperately searching for the next Mahomes because they missed on it 2 years ago. I was listening to Louis Riddick this morning who was asked what guy he'd be watching. He said Stidham because the kid is a sleeper like Mahomes and does a really good job running a west coast offense. He thinks he'll be special in a couple years. Yeah I've seen Riddick tout Stidham -- he is also down on Lock. I really like Stidham if he plays in a clean pocket and I think he will kill it at the combine because he will have that cooking -- no pass rush to worry about. I'd be surprised too if they trade up in the draft with the disclaimer that if Dan falls in love with someone he might push them to do it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said: Jones reminds me of Dak Prescott. I don't mean that as a bad thing per se. You can win with that model, provided the supporting cast (defense and running game) are there. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/dak-prescott-1.html https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/daniel-jones-4.html Jones doesn't have anything approaching the stats that Prescott had. He's not half the prospect. Completion percentage. Yards. YPA. TD/INT. I don't see the comparison. Dak was a much better prospect. I would bet anyone on this board anything that Daniel Jones never amounts to anything. McQueen, I think this is your second Blaine Gabbert. I don't care how tough Jones is. He doesn't have the arm AND he hasn't had the production. In 4 years of college he never threw for 3,000 yards AND never had 7.0 YPA. He's a waste of a pick. He has no upside as a starter and I just wouldn't draft him. Maybe in the 5th. I challenge anyone to find a successful NFL QB that never posted a 3000 yard season in 3 or 4 years of college AND never reached 7.0 YPA. I don't think that player exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Unless its Haskins or Murray, I don't want any QB In this draft.... fools gold. It's a down year for QB's in the draft and they will be overvalued due to team needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 You just know Kingsbury wants Murray bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabbypatty Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: Risky yes but don't agree with the short sighted part. I think their greatest risk is actually losing more of their fan base some of which seems to be checking out. I get the criticisms of waiting for 2020 (I shared that view myself initially this year) but I would say if anything its taking the long view to wait to 2020. If you take BPA in 2019 versus forcing a QB that you aren't sold on -- I wouldn't do that. I am not saying you are suggesting it goes down that way. But my point is it really all depends on how it plays out. To me context is everything. If you do wait for 2020, you are building a roster for a Qb to come in and hopefully succeed and if you love a QB and have to trade up, you probably wouldn't have to give up as much draft capitol in 2020 than you would this year considering they likely have a higher pick to jump up from and with more options in 2020. But agree we don't know that for sure. But the draft is all about playing the odds anyway versus having concrete answers. There are teams (especially our team) who for many years at different times have had to get a QB but the want and the result often don't work seamlessly together. For example, what if they agree with a good chunk of draft geeks who say there are only two bonafide franchise Qbs in this draft and they are both going top 5. Do you trade the farm to go up and get one? Do you ride with someone who you don't love but hope that they work out anyway? I wouldn't force a decision on it one way or another. So for that reason I don't think they have to get a QB. In theory I am a 2020 draft guy because I am not sure about any QB landing at 15 who is likely a franchise guy and i am doubting they trade up big into the top 5. So I think the cards just end up working that way the most seamlessly. However, if for example Murray drops to 9 and they are willing to trade up and love him then do it. Or if they feel that way about Lock and think he's the dude or whomever then go get him. If they don't, then don't. Pass rushers don't fall out of the sky so for example if they think Polite is a stud pass rusher and Jones or Lock they like but don't love then take Polite IMO. To me taking a next tier type QB that some in the building aren't that sold on would feel very Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell, Christian Ponder, etc to me. That's my key thing to avoid. So I am hoping they don't feel desperate at all to take a Qb in this draft or at least not early. I don't care what they do after the first round on that count. 48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Maybe I didn't write it as clearly as I should have. I agree that seeing how things play out goes would be the prudent choice. When I said they had to get a qb, I didn't mean they had to trade up to get one, just that at some point you need to get some young blood out of this draft at the qb position. Whether that's a guy falling or waiting until later to grab one. I get the wait for 2020 argument, but to me it hinges on a bunch of hopefullys. Hopefully you can get the guy you want without giving up the farm, hopefully he is the right choice and hopefully he can succeed early. That's an awful lot of glass half full to depend on things going your way, while in the meantime you're staring at another 4-12 or 5-11 season with what we got at qb. I see qb in 2019/2020 as a bird in the hand situation, if something falls this year, great. If it doesn't work out then figure out another plan of attack. But I do not advocate giving up the farm for any of these guys. 48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: To me a slightly less athletic, more turnover prone version of Dak. I am not a big Dak guy so i don't have an issue with that comparison. My gut is he will have a worse career than Dak. Maybe I'll change my mind after watching him in the combine but right now am not a Jones guy. Yeah I've seen Riddick tout Stidham -- he is also down on Lock. I really like Stidham if he plays in a clean pocket and I think he will kill it at the combine because he will have that cooking -- no pass rush to worry about. I'd be surprised too if they trade up in the draft with the disclaimer that if Dan falls in love with someone he might push them to do it anyway. I see Stidham as a slightly lighter, slightly worse runner than Dak. In fact, that's who I think his game will most resemble, and I'm fine with that. A young, tall strong armed guy who can make all the throws but needs some work and help from the running game/defense. Prescott may not be a world beater, but he's consistent, safe with the ball and can hurt teams, he's good enough to win you 10+ games a year with a good supporting cast. And he's improved after his not so great second year. I'd take 22+ td's, 3500ish yards a year, and the ability to stay healthy any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Stidham is my guy. He's young, tough, healthy, doesn't turn the ball over and has a strong arm. Great footwork, OTT throwing motion and played in the sec with a not so great supporting cast. i think in Jay's pass happy system he could flourish and put up better numbers than Dak. He will never be a Rodgers type, but I'm perfectly fine with what he brings to the table. He will probably kill the combine and elevate himself from a 3rd -4th rd qb to a late 1st, mid 2nd guy. Which sucks but it's better than giving up a 1st or trading up for flawed one year starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I like Murray a lot and have made it known in many post but in the end I think the Skins end up with one or the other at QB either Daniel Jones or Jarrett Stidham. Jones would be selected at #15 and Stidham, depending on how he does at Indy in the 2nd or 3rd. Just a hunch, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 32 minutes ago, HigSkin said: You just know Kingsbury wants Murray bad. Yeah I was just about to post the same thing. I am thinking the Cardinals take him. Part of me wants to see that happen because I don't want to see Murray become a NY Giant. On another note, I just listened to Scot McClougan on 106.7 talk for awhile. I know some like him, some don't. Am in the camp that does like him. So for those who do, here's what he said: A. Everything being equal he loves SEC-Big 10 players who have had multiple years of success B. He's come to the conclusion that he typically wouldn't draft a WR in the first because there are so many of them later in the draft. This followed a conversation about why the WR position seems more of a crap shoot than others. He explained its often because in college these players are doing their thing without thinking. In the NFL you typically have to learn an entirely new offense and you can't play without thinking so it takes time to adjust. He didn't make this conclusion but it seemed to be he was hinting that polished route runners in college are the safer bet versus the more raw athletic freaks. C. The interviews and medicals are the most important aspect of the combine. He said a players make up is key and that is especially so for QB. He talked about how when they met with Mayfield he was just oozing personality, confidence, bravado and that helped seal the deal. D. for Kyler he's more concerned about his weight-bone structure than height. He likes him as a player but to size him up in the combine he'd look closely at his body build. Said when they were sizing up Russell Wilson they can see he was built like a tank -- thick legs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I am pretty sure we won't take a QB in the first unless we can get Murray. The FO believes that we are almost there and that is all that matters. A rookie QB will not be the last piece day 1 unless he is a guy who can do things that NFL defenses aren't ready for (kind of like RG3 as a rookie). Further, rolling with Colt provides Bruce another excuse (as long as he's willing to throw Gruden under the bus). Dan is historically a lover of shutdown defenses (his moves in 2000 on the defensive side were good) and the biggest fails he has had some involvement with have been offensive splash when it comes to the draft. Bruce also probably wants to get rid of Preston Smith, Jamison Crowder and Ari Kujo (not because they lack talent but because they are Scott guys). He also may want to put in place a guy to replace Doctson because while Doc looks like a bust, it is the fact that he is a Scott guy that rankles him. The Greek is a problem but maybe getting rid of Doctston would be enough to mollify Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 40 minutes ago, crabbypatty said: Maybe I didn't write it as clearly as I should have. I agree that seeing how things play out goes would be the prudent choice. When I said they had to get a qb, I didn't mean they had to trade up to get one, just that at some point you need to get some young blood out of this draft at the qb position. Whether that's a guy falling or waiting until later to grab one. Ok, sorry, I got it. I agree. It could even be someone like Ta'amu in the 5th round but just take a young guy to groom at a minimum. 40 minutes ago, crabbypatty said: I get the wait for 2020 argument, but to me it hinges on a bunch of hopefullys. Hopefully you can get the guy you want without giving up the farm, hopefully he is the right choice and hopefully he can succeed early. That's an awful lot of glass half full to depend on things going your way, while in the meantime you're staring at another 4-12 or 5-11 season with what we got at qb. I see qb in 2019/2020 as a bird in the hand situation, if something falls this year, great. If it doesn't work out then figure out another plan of attack. But I do not advocate giving up the farm for any of these guys. In my opinion the quandary is this. I do think its healthy for them to have a 5-11 season to purge this FO from a certain person, get a high draft pick, among other things. and yes I would bet they will have that kind of year with the status quo. But I admit if so it will be a miserable year from a fan stand point -- low TV ratings, etc and can they survive what Peter King dubbed the other day them hemorrhaging fans. Having said that if there is a QB they love and he's within their reach -- 100% take the dude. Franchise QBs are hard to find. 40 minutes ago, crabbypatty said: I see Stidham as a slightly lighter, slightly worse runner than Dak. In fact, that's who I think his game will most resemble, and I'm fine with that. A young, tall strong armed guy who can make all the throws but needs some work and help from the running game/defense. Prescott may not be a world beater, but he's consistent, safe with the ball and can hurt teams, he's good enough to win you 10+ games a year with a good supporting cast. And he's improved after his not so great second year. I'd take 22+ td's, 3500ish yards a year, and the ability to stay healthy any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Stidham is my guy. He's young, tough, healthy, doesn't turn the ball over and has a strong arm. Great footwork, OTT throwing motion and played in the sec with a not so great supporting cast. i think in Jay's pass happy system he could flourish and put up better numbers than Dak. He will never be a Rodgers type, but I'm perfectly fine with what he brings to the table. He will probably kill the combine and elevate himself from a 3rd -4th rd qb to a late 1st, mid 2nd guy. Which sucks but it's better than giving up a 1st or trading up for flawed one year starters. I was working via a point about Jones-Dak comparisons. I've watched 4 Stidham games recently. And watched a ton of interviews of him. To circle back on my take on him. I love his arm and accuracy and by that I mean everywhere on the field. His arm strength IMO is just lightly less than that of Drew Lock. Watching Stidham launch balls deep is a thing of beauty. And I've said as a dude, he's my favorite guy based on his interviews that I've watched and what I've heard others say. My concerns about him is what happens when the pocket crashes on him -- he comes off skittish to me way too much. I like Lock over him specifically for this reason. Lock to me seems to have more pocket presence. And Stidham's rep which I've heard multiple times of being "unclutch" bothers me, too but I haven't really dived into that point. But I wouldn't hate that pick at all if they took him in the third. There are aspects I really like about him. As for him killing the combine and elevating himself as a 2nd rounder. Could be. The combine IMO is tailored made for Stidham's skill set because he can make all the throws and accurately and can launch some beauties deep. In the 3rd-4th range -- I am cool with Stidham, Rypien, Grier, Finley and Jones if he drops that far which he probably won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 32 minutes ago, RWJ said: I like Murray a lot and have made it known in many post but in the end I think the Skins end up with one or the other at QB either Daniel Jones or Jarrett Stidham. Jones would be selected at #15 and Stidham, depending on how he does at Indy in the 2nd or 3rd. Just a hunch, everyone. Hope not Jones unless its the 2nd round at the earliest. Stidham in the 3rd, am cool with. Am guessing Murray ends up out of reach. I do like albeit don't love Drew Lock but I could get into the selection if they made it. So I wouldn't mind him if he falls to 15. i am doubting he does. But some mocks have Lock falling. Will see. 21 minutes ago, Darth Tater said: I am pretty sure we won't take a QB in the first unless we can get Murray. The FO believes that we are almost there and that is all that matters. A rookie QB will not be the last piece day 1 unless he is a guy who can do things that NFL defenses aren't ready for (kind of like RG3 as a rookie). My gut is the same. They take a guy though later in the draft but no one in the first round unless one just falls in their lap that they really like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Just watched Chris Simms on Finlay's live from the combine show. He said in his view you got 3 top QBs. Murray, Lock, Haskins. And he thinks that's the order as for who's best. Was funny to watch because Finlay worships Haskins and doesn't think much of Lock. He thinks the Redskins have to trade up to likely get their QB. He said then the next tier: Jones, Stidham, Grier, Finley. On another note, he doesn't see Alex Smith as a franchise QB even if he came back, and doesn't see much drop off from him to Colt McCoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I'm starting to believe more and more that Arizona takes Kyler at 1 but they're doing whatever they can to make it not seem so obvious because of the lost leverage with trading Rosen. I'm wondering if there drafting of Kyler is contingent on what sort of return they get for the current incumbent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: I'm starting to believe more and more that Arizona takes Kyler at 1 but they're doing whatever they can to make it not seem so obvious because of the lost leverage with trading Rosen. I'm wondering if there drafting of Kyler is contingent on what sort of return they get for the current incumbent. So if they DO trade Rosen. He'd be dirt cheap cap-wise. The signing bonus would count against the Cardinals (not that bad, but still). He'd basically cost like a 2nd rounder cap-wise instead of the 10th overall pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 4 hours ago, crabbypatty said: Agreed. That's why I don't get the "roll with Colt" and draft Tua or Lawrence in 2020 comments. Next year is next year. Trotting out a team with Colt and JJ is a giant middle finger to everyone. They HAVE to get a qb one way or another. The problems with people wanting to wait for a "franchise qb" in 2020 are twofold. 1. There's no guarantee the skins will be able to get either of those guys 2. There's no guarantee that the next great thing doesn't suffer some gruesome injury or just end up sucking. It seems awfully short sighted to me to tank a season, and wait in the hopes of getting a guy who may or may not have a good/great season next year, based off of how they played last year. Lawrence was a true freshman this year, so he won't be draft eligible until 2021. 3 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said: Jones reminds me of Dak Prescott. I don't mean that as a bad thing per se. You can win with that model, provided the supporting cast (defense and running game) are there. As other's have noted, Dak had a much better college career and numbers than Jones. Same mobility but Dak was more accurate, less turnover prone, and had better arm talent. The Jones thing truly mystifies me. There just isn't anything exceptional about any aspect of his game. He reminds me of a far less accurate, far more turnover prone Alex Smith. 2 hours ago, SemperFi Skins said: Unless its Haskins or Murray, I don't want any QB In this draft.... fools gold. It's a down year for QB's in the draft and they will be overvalued due to team needs. To be fair, both of those guys could be fool's gold as well. Both one year wonders with some lingering questions about their games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Rypien with 9" hands. There goes my thought of him as a Day 3 pick. Hard to succeed in December/January with small hands unless you play in a dome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 25 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: So if they DO trade Rosen. He'd be dirt cheap cap-wise. The signing bonus would count against the Cardinals (not that bad, but still). He'd basically cost like a 2nd rounder cap-wise instead of the 10th overall pick. FYI - his 2019 cap hit $4 mil and Cards would have to eat $8.2 mil but I wouldn't do it. I don't like the kid. Besides our Alabama guys would probably beat the poop out of him! https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/25/17249082/josh-rosen-draft-ucla-qb-comments Look, football and school don’t go together. They just don’t. Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs. There are guys who have no business being in school, but they’re here because this is the path to the NFL. There’s no other way. Then there’s the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes and then the product on the field suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 31 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: So if they DO trade Rosen. He'd be dirt cheap cap-wise. The signing bonus would count against the Cardinals (not that bad, but still). He'd basically cost like a 2nd rounder cap-wise instead of the 10th overall pick. Rosen has had multiple concussions. I don't want him anywhere near the Skins. Hope we pass on him. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Wonsley Posse Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 5 hours ago, Rogue Jedi said: Lol I hope Snyder and Jay go all in for Murray. At least the Skins will be fun to watch again regardless of our W/L record. Agree at this point. Drafting Jones will be the end of the staff and the fan base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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