2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[markmills67]

11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I think the Raiders already have 2 first rounders in 2020 as well. They could easily bail out from #4 to snag another first rounder in 2020. That would leave them in good shape next year to move right up and get an elite prospect QB if Carr continues to come up short.

 

Plus they'd likely move back from #4 to the mid first round and still hold a trio of 1st rounders this year.

 

Mayock must be like a kid on Christmas morning right now.

 

If the Redskins make a move for a vet QB, that may well be the end for Josh Norman as a cap casualty. He probably should be anyway. That could easily bring CB into play for us in the first round. Chances are we would get a very good one too.

I for one want Norman gone especially with 9m or so cap savings. 

 

HTTR 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In concept I agree but the reason why there is buzz that Hockenson can go top 10 is how unique he is among that crowd.  He's not just a decent blocker but is a monster blocker and weapon in the passing game.  For those (not you) suggesting lets go crazy with drafting O lineman, I get the sentiment but it feels a bit over the top.  However, adding a monster TE blocker AND a big body guard -- now you are talking about really building something special perhaps as to improving run-pass blocking.  Heck I can argue its easier to find a monster blocking guard than it is a monster blocking TE who can also catch.  

 

And its not just about getting a TE who can do it all but also what it means to disguise play calling.  TEs have become so specialized -- the blocking TEs, the receiving TEs, etc that your personnel can tip off runs versus passes.  Hockenson makes that tough.  You want him in there to block for the run and as a pass catching weapon. 

Draft him then we could release both Reed and Davis and save 12m on cap. 

 

HTTR 

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah was just listening to a Ross Tucker podcast where he cited someone saying he hears that the 49ers want to trade down.  If so right now you got scuttlebutt that the 49ers, Raiders, Jets, Bills all want to trade down?  Wonder if that creates a buyers market as for trading up.  I am still not a big fan of the idea of trading up though unless they can do it without sacrificing their 2020 #1. 

 

Those picks are 2 through 4 still carry a premium rate. It's a hell of a jump from outsider the top 10 to get there. We could probably get to #9 and the Bills pick on a reasonable deal. Not sure we need to go much higher if it's a QB we are tracking not named Murray or Haskins.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

I for one want Norman gone especially with 9m or so cap savings. 

 

HTTR 

Draft him then we could release both Reed and Davis and save 12m on cap. 

 

HTTR 

 

That's a good point.  Davis I saw as a given to let go but agree it makes Reed expendable, too. 

 

6 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Those picks are 2 through 4 still carry a premium rate. It's a hell of a jump from outsider the top 10 to get there. We could probably get to #9 and the Bills pick on a reasonable deal. Not sure we need to go much higher if it's a QB we are tracking not named Murray or Haskins.

 

Yeah to trade that far up, you are giving up your 2020 first rounder almost for sure and change.   Yeah agree as for #9, I've said the same multiple times.  #9 is as far as I'd go.  that would likely take Haskins out of the equation.  And as for Murray, he's probably not going to be there either but right now it looks like there is some shot he's there.  #9 means you take your chances with Jax and NYG and leapfrog Denver, Cincy, Miami who all might want a QB.  

[crabbypatty]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's a good point.  Davis I saw as a given to let go but agree it makes Reed expendable, too. 

 

 

Yeah to trade that far up, you are giving up your 2020 first rounder almost for sure and change.   Yeah agree as for #9, I've said the same multiple times.  #9 is as far as I'd go.  that would likely take Haskins out of the equation.  And as for Murray, he's probably not going to be there either but right now it looks like there is some shot he's there.  #9 means you take your chances with Jax and NYG and leapfrog Denver, Cincy, Miami who all might want a QB.  

 

I think this is the draft you let come to you regarding QBs. None of these guys seem worth trading up for. If you really really love a guy then it makes sense, but they're all flawed passers for one reason or another. 

They drop from the "top tier" guys to the second tier guys is not that great. 

No way I'd trade up unless there was a Mayfield or Mahomes someone similar there.

I think this is an ideal trade back year if there ever was one.

 

The first round OL are weak, and I hate all the first round edge rushers as far as play strength.

Polite, burns, and sweat all need to get stronger. 

Again, it seems like the drop from the top to the lesser guys is not so far.

 

[mhd24]

I don't think Hockenson makes it to our pick unfortunately.  I was listening to Kiper  and Mckshay's podcast series that they do and initially they thought 17-32 for Hockenson, and now they are locked in on him going top 12.  They are hearing from FO's around the league on him.  

 

I think Murray is a pipe dream.  Some team (Bengals, Dolphins, Jags) will trade up to ensure they get him.  Haskins is going top 10 as well.  If we can't trade down, I'd probably take Lock is he's there.  If not, BPA is probably going to be a CB like Greedy Williams, Baker, or Murphy.

[Skinsinparadise]

Some good stuff from Breer this morning

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/25/robert-kraft-prostitution-charges-sex-trafficking-patriots-nfl-combine-dwayne-haskins-kyler-murray?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_medium=social

 

THE QUARTERBACKING FIELD

One general manager told me Sunday he believes Murray and Haskins are the only two starting quarterbacks in the class. Another GM agreed with that. And I didn’t get much pushback from our panel.

 

“I think it’s those two, then you’d be gambling,” said McShay. “I’d say [Missouri’s] Drew Lock is the best gamble, because he has all the tools, the athleticism, all that stuff. But coming from the spread, he’d have to learn to go through progressions, set protections, he only started with that last year [with Derek Dooley’s arrival at Mizzou]. And his decision-making is erratic and his accuracy is inconsistent.”

Duke’s Daniel Jones inspired skepticism. NC State’s Ryan Finley actually got more praise than I expected. And it sounds like those are the three with the best shot at going alongside Haskins and Murray.

 

“I don’t think it’s as pro football ready, given all the characteristics, as the class last year,” Clinkscales said. “I really do like Haskins, he’s a big, strong, physical kid with a big arm who probably has a little more mobility than you think. Obviously he’s just a one-year starter but so is Kyler Murray.”

That’s sort of the QB class in a nutshell—the top two have 28 college starts between them, while all five of last year’s first-rounders were multi-year starters.

 

THE BEST POSITION

Right now we’re all talking about Murray. But the scouts have been talking about the defensive line group and have been for quite some time. So when I ask what jumps out about this draft class to them, all four of our panelists gave the same answer.

“The depth of the D-line class, it’s an easy answer,” Beddingfield said. “It’s rare that you have that many players, players that can play in multiple defenses, that can play on all three downs. It’s a premium position, everyone’s looking for them, and this draft has a lot of them. It’s the numbers. More than the elite guys, there are just a lot of starting-caliber defensive linemen. A good group of players that can step right in.”

Ohio State’s Nick Bosa has been, and should remain at the top of the class because of his combination of talent and refinement (McShay said of Bosa’s use of his hands: “It’s martial arts almost, I don’t know how else to describe it”). Alabama’s Quinnen Williams is right there with him. And then there’s one other player right there.

“[Mississippi State’s Jeffrey] Simmons would make it three if he didn’t have the injury and the character stuff,” said McShay. “If not for the ACL,” Jeremiah affirmed, “Simmons is in that mix.”

Simmons, you may remember, was caught on video punching a womanduring his senior year in high school. In the time since, his coaches at Mississippi State have sworn by him to scouts. But more recently, in training for the combine, he tore his ACL, which makes him as complicated a prospect as there is in this class.

 

Another thing that won’t held Simmons is the depth Beddingfield referenced. McShay says he heard Michigan’s Rashan Gary will run in the 4.5s at 280 pounds. Light-ish Houston DT Ed Oliver has game-wrecking potential. And three Clemson defensive linemen could go in the first round. Then there’s Mississippi State’s other DL, Montez Sweat, Florida’s Jachai Polite and … so on and so on.

“I’ve been doing this 20 years, and this the strongest I’ve seen top-to-bottom, in terms of d-tackles and edge guys,” McShay said.

 

THE NEXT GRONK?

Three of our four panelists raised Rob Gronkowski’s name when discussing Iowa’s T.J. Hockenson, and they did it in a “I’m not saying, I’m just saying” sort of way.

 

“I think Hockenson’s the cleanest player in the draft,” Jeremiah said. “There’s nothing that you’d want from that position that he doesn’t have. He has all of it. We just saw the value of in-line, ‘Y’ tight end in the playoffs. I’m not saying he’s Gronk. But he’s dominant in the run game, and it’s hard to find that without sacrificing athleticism. … To me, as a draft pick, he’s right in the middle of the fairway.”

He, his Iowa teammate Noah Fant (who’s more on a H-back type) and Alabama’s Irv Smith could land in the first round. What’s more there’s depth into the second and  third rounds at a position (with guys like Stanford’s Kaden Smith, BC’s Tommy Sweeney and Texas A&M’s Jace Sternberger) that has been weak in the draft over the last few years.

 

“There are some guys that give you the ability to stretch the field,” Clinkscales said. “There are other guys that give you the versatility to line up and power the ball down the field, because they’re really good blockers, true Y guys. I think you’ll have a chance to get better pretty quickly at the tight end position.”

Beddingfield added, “Teams are gonna get a first-round caliber defensive linemen in the second round. And when teams value their board, they’ll see second-round caliber tight ends in the third round. There’s gonna be good value in that position.”

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

To the point above about Parris Campbell. I was watching Devin White and Campbell really jumped out in that game.  Yeah he might not be a polished route runner.  But boy can that dude make something out of nothing.  You throw a shallow cross to him, he can take it and look like Barry Sanders in the open field.  So i like him a lot in the context of a dink and dunk style offense.  As I've stated here more times than I should, i don't care for Daniel Jones.  But I can see Jones run a dink and dunk style WCO and be one of those he's OK to less than that and nothing special style QBs.  For a dude like that, Campbell would be perfect. 

[skinny21]

So, given the depth at corner, TE and receiver through the first 3 rounds, and assuming we don’t take advantage of the DL depth, I think targeting those three positions makes a lot of sense.  

There’s intriguing day 2 depth at Safety and RB too.   

For me, there are a few Edge rushers I’d be interested in round 1, though only a couple (Winovich and Gustin) that I’d really consider in the 2nd-3rd.  

 

I haven’t really looked at oline, but given the above, our lack of a 4th round pick and the possibility we draft a qb, I have to wonder if we wind up with a G before rd 5.  

 

The team has seemingly tended to attack their needs early in the draft (unlike SM’s philosophy of BPA early and need late), so we may well select a guard early, but I wonder if they look to FA instead.  

 

Considering all of that, and if we don’t take a qb early, I’d strongly consider trading back in the first (netting a 2nd, 3rd or 4th), draft a G rd 1, followed by corner, TE, WR and safety or edge rusher (not necessarily in that order).  Going with a guard there isn’t necessarily my preference, but if they don’t pick one up in FA, and if they feel that’s their priority, then that’s probably the route I’d take in their shoes.  

 

Corner - Love, Joejuan Williams, Fields-Gardner, Oruwariye, Lonnie Johnson

TE - Kaden Smith, Jace Sternberger, Dax Raymond

Receiver - Deebo Samuel, Marquis Brown, Hall, Campbell, Ridley, Isabella,  Sills, Jennings, McLaurin, Lodge

Edge - Winovich, Gustin

S - Adderley, Juan Thornhill, Taylor Rapp, Darnell Savage

 

(I’m blanking on a few others I like)

 

There are a few other wildcards I dig quite a bit at other positions in that range - Germaine Pratt, Tre Watson, and David Montgomery, for example.  

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

So, given the depth at corner, TE and receiver through the first 3 rounds, and assuming we don’t take advantage of the DL depth, I think targeting those three positions makes a lot of sense.  

There’s intriguing day 2 depth at Safety and RB too.   

For me, there are a few Edge rushers I’d be interested in round 1, though only a couple (Winovich and Gustin) that I’d really consider in the 2nd-3rd.  

 

I haven’t really looked at oline, but given the above, our lack of a 4th round pick and the possibility we draft a qb, I have to wonder if we wind up with a G before rd 5.  

 

 

 

I've been a trade down guy in theory for years but it seems to burn us in retrospect considering the prospect we end up skipping.  So now I feel mixed about it.

 

I agree that need seems to impinge of late on the BPA approach.  To that point, pass rusher and O line are likely in play.  I'd guess pass rusher being the top one considering the economics of that position in FA.  If so, they might have a shot at Ferrell, Polite, Burns.  Then some argue there is a major drop off to that next tier.  Also if you get your pass rusher in the first, you have that option year in year 5.  Edge rusher to me is the closest position to QB in FA in that the prices can get out of hand.  If they stick to their conservative -- need driven/economic vibe to the draft then I am guessing its almost a given that either Ferell, Polite, Burns will be their pick.

 

As much as I love Hockenson, I doubt they'd shoot for him.  Reason being if they are that convinced they are close and use the draft now as a heavy need based exercise especially early in the draft as you state then they'd likely see Hockenson as a luxury pick since they already have two playmaking TEs in house. 

[Skinsinparadise]

To the Grier people here, interesting write up.  I am not sure if I am a Grier person or not.  But I am not anti-Grier so I think in the context of this thread -- that makes me more in the Grier camp.  I'd take a flier on him after the first round but I won't lose sleep over it one way or another.  I'd trust Jay's take on this one way or another.  

 

https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/lists/24638/2019-nfl-combine-6-players-with-the-most-to-gain/will-grier-qb-west-virginia-1

Will Grier, QB, West Virginia

One might think that eye-popping statistics and superb deep-ball passing would have West Virginia's Will Grier in the conversation for top quarterback in the draft class. However, a rough Senior Bowlsquashed Grier's hype and reinstalled trepidation that's he's just another air raid system quarterback with suspect arm strength -- at least in the eyes of some talent evaluators.

As a starter each of the last two seasons for the Mountaineers, Grier posted an incredible 9.4 yards per pass attempt. That puts the 23-year-old into elite territory with a number of former first-round picks. According to Sports Info Solutions, Grier ranked top-five in on-target throws to both the short and deep areas of the football field. Additionally, the game charting done by Pro Football Focusplaced Grier first in big-time throws, fourth in yards per attempt, and the third-best overall quarterback in the country by their grading system.

In terms of physical measurements, the PlayerProfiler database puts Grier on the smaller side, drawing comparisons to Andy Dalton, Baker Mayfield, and C.J. Beathard based on height, weight, hand size, and arm length measurements. But radar technology doesn't agree with those that question Grier's arm strength. In fact, no one was throwing the ball with more velocity at the Senior Bowl than Grier. Thankfully, scouts with radar guns will be watching what could prove to be a critical throwing session for Grier at the NFL Scouting Combine.

Grier has flashed a lot of ability while also giving doubters plenty of ammo to hold against him. In addition to playing in a quarterback-friendly system known to produce aberrations, Grier will already be 24 years old when the season starts. He has to ace the combine in order to find a team committed to making him their guy of the future.

 

 

[mistertim]

On 2/22/2019 at 6:23 PM, skinny21 said:

 

@Skinsinparadise I swear, every graphic/matrix you post to show how good Murray is... Grier’s right there in second.  It’s like you’re trying to solidify my take on him, lol.  

 

I've found this somewhat mystifying as well. We keep seeing these infographics that rave about Murray and his stats doing x, y, or z. But in almost every single one of those Will Grier is there underneath him in 2nd place...ahead of Haskins, Lock, Jones, etc. And yet while Murray is talked about as a sure fire 1st rounder and a possible top 5 pick, Grier is generally considered a 2nd day pick even though they played in the same conference and Grier had a much less talented supporting cast including OL and WRs. 

 

I understand that Murray has attributes that make him an incredibly unique and compelling prospect but why pump him up with stats but ignore what the exact same stats say about the other QBs in the class when ranking the guys?

 

Odd.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

To the Grier people here, interesting write up.  I am not sure if I am a Grier person or not.  But I am not anti-Grier so I think in the context of this thread -- that makes me more in the Grier camp.  I'd take a flier on him after the first round but I won't lose sleep over it one way or another.  I'd trust Jay's take on this one way or another.  

 

Like you've said SIP and I agree with it.  IF Murray falls to #9 then I think we should trade up and get him.  No higher than #9.  If not let the draft come to us and take the best player available.  I just hope the first 4 pick include 2 OL.  

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I've found this somewhat mystifying as well. We keep seeing these infographics that rave about Murray and his stats doing x, y, or z. But in almost every single one of those Will Grier is there underneath him in 2nd place...ahead of Haskins, Lock, Jones, etc. And yet while Murray is talked about as a sure fire 1st rounder and a possible top 5 pick, Grier is generally considered a 2nd day pick even though they played in the same conference and Grier had a much less talented supporting cast including OL and WRs. 

 

I understand that Murray has attributes that make him an incredibly unique and compelling prospect but why pump him up with stats but ignore what the exact same stats say about the other QBs in the class when ranking the guys?

 

Odd.

 

I can't recall a QB prospect with so many conflicting reports-opinions than Grier.  Depending on the draft geek we got:

 

Strong arm to weak arm

Great leader to character concerns

Really accurate to will struggle with accuracy in the NFL because of the system he played in

 

Statistically speaking, Grier has everything just about going for him -- deep balls, high YPA, high completion rate, good under pressure.  Guys like Daniel Jones is a failure on almost every key metric that scouts say matter and he doesn't have a strong arm either yet he's in first round conversation whereas people are all over the map on Grier.  I am no QB expert.  So maybe I am missing something.  And I get Grier has had some bad games but who hasn't?

 

Is it all-mostly about the idea that the WV offense.Air Raid system is a total mismatch to the NFL and they project Grier won't convert well to it?  

[Darth Tater]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been a trade down guy in theory for years but it seems to burn us in retrospect considering the prospect we end up skipping.  So now I feel mixed about it.

That the prospects we failed to take with our trade downs were available to us after the trade down, I disagree that this should cause mixed feelings.

[mistertim]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Is it all-mostly about the idea that the WV offense.Air Raid system is a total mismatch to the NFL and they project Grier won't convert well to it?  

 

But Oklahoma basically uses an Air Raid system as well. Dana Holgorsen and Lincoln Riley are both directly from the Mike Leach Air Raid coaching tree. WVU and OK both use that system and variations of it as well as plenty of RPO, so to me the system thing rings pretty hollow when comparing those guys and their stats. Both Air Raid QBs, both playing in the Big 12. 

[HigSkin]

This is pretty cool...

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Supposedly Kyler Murray is going to weigh in at 206 pounds.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/25/nfl-combine-preview-robert-kraft-nfl-fmia-peter-king/

 

1 minute ago, HigSkin said:

This is pretty cool...

 

 

 

I assume this is the minimum threshold and if it's over that, big red flag?

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

But Oklahoma basically uses an Air Raid system as well. Dana Holgorsen and Lincoln Riley are both directly from the Mike Leach Air Raid coaching tree. WVU and OK both use that system and variations of it as well as plenty of RPO, so to me the system thing rings pretty hollow when comparing those guys and their stats. Both Air Raid QBs, both playing in the Big 12. 

 

Though the conversation about Murray is almost totally on his skill set which is considered by most special -- arm strength, speed, accuracy.  No one is questioning Murray' arm strength.  Plenty are questioning Grier on that front.  As for whether the criticisms are valid is a different discussion.  For example I think if there was a consensus that Grier's arm was special and has 4.3 speed -- people wouldn't be as concerned about whether he's a system QB.  

 

Like I've been saying, I am ok with Grier in the 2nd-3rd round.  So I am not debating against him. 

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Though the conversation about Murray is almost totally on his skill set which is considered by most special -- arm strength, speed, accuracy.  No one is questioning Murray' arm strength.  Plenty are questioning Grier on that front.  As for whether the criticisms are valid is a different discussion.  For example I think if there was a consensus that Grier's arm was special and has 4.3 speed -- people wouldn't be as concerned about whether he's a system QB.  

 

Like I've been saying, I am ok with Grier in the 2nd-3rd round.  So I am not debating against him. 

 

Yeah I wasn't necessarily defending Grier or putting down Murray either way. Just saying that the system thing to me would be an odd argument since their offensive coaches/systems literally came from the exact same source and have a ton of similarities. I agree that what makes Murray so special is skill set, specifically physical. And I agree with you that Grier seems to be one of those prospects where most scouts really can't seem to come to anything even resembling a decisive opinion. 

 

One other thing about Grier that I could see as a negative is his age...he'll be 24 years old when his first NFL season starts. Obviously that's not Brandon Weeden old, but it's certainly older than his draft contemporaries. I could see more of an urge to push him into action instead of letting him sit and learn a bit and who knows how that would work with his development. 

 

That being said, I do like Grier and I think he would be an excellent value in the 2nd. If we wanted to focus on offense in the early rounds and didn't want to trade up for Murray I could definitely live with Hockenson in the 1st and Grier in the 2nd.

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I wasn't necessarily defending Grier or putting down Murray either way. Just saying that the system thing to me would be an odd argument since their offensive coaches/systems literally came from the exact same source and have a ton of similarities. I agree that what makes Murray so special is skill set, specifically physical. And I agree with you that Grier seems to be one of those prospects where most scouts really can't seem to come to anything even resembling a decisive opinion. 

 

One other thing about Grier that I could see as a negative is his age...he'll be 24 years old when his first NFL season starts. Obviously that's not Brandon Weeden old, but it's certainly older than his draft contemporaries. I could see more of an urge to push him into action instead of letting him sit and learn a bit and who knows how that would work with his development. 

 

That being said, I do like Grier and I think he would be an excellent value in the 2nd. If we wanted to focus on offense in the early rounds and didn't want to trade up for Murray I could definitely live with Hockenson in the 1st and Grier in the 2nd.

 

It seems to pop more with QBs who aren't considered special talent wise, like for example Mason Rudolph -- people liked his arm but didn't love his tools and then the system in turn become part of the narrative about him.  I also think it didn't help that Weeden put up big numbers in that system and didn't make it in the NFL.  So to pivot from Oklahoma State, i am trying to think up a recent successful QB from WVU?

 

I am just playing devil's advocate here.   Like i said I could ride with Grier after the first round.  I've been digesting QBs projected to go then and for me that would be Grier #1 and Rypien #2.   I think both players' deep balls are underestimated.  They both can get enough air under them to get the ball deep.  Stidham who is also in the mix of conversation in the 2nd-4th round -- for me I love the dude's arm but he's too shaky to me with everything else.  It wouldn't surprise me if Stidham stars in the combine considering its a perfect setting for him -- he can just let it fly there without worrying about pressure, protections, etc. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I took the Brandt numbers for the combine then coupled that with a study I found which highlighted the most important numbers per position as for correlation to future success in the NFL.  I highlighted the 2 most critical categories per position -- based on that study. 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

@SkinsinparadiseI'm a little confused by that. Is it saying that 40 yard dash is one of the most important tests that correlates to success for DL? That's sort of the opposite of what I think of when looking at DL...generally 10 yard split to me is more indicative of success in the trenches when it comes to first step off the line, especially for guys who are pass rushers.

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, mistertim said:

@SkinsinparadiseI'm a little confused by that. Is it saying that 40 yard dash is one of the most important tests that correlates to success for DL? That's sort of the opposite of what I think of when looking at DL...generally 10 yard split to me is more indicative of success in the trenches when it comes to first step off the line, especially for guys who are pass rushers.

 

This is based on a study (not my study) that I posted on this thread weeks back which studies the success of the best performers in said categories versus all participants in those categories.  They weren't trying to make an intellectual argument as for what in the combine should matter but instead find a connection of what mattered in reality purely from the stand point that the players who stood out in those categories compared to their peers at the combine were most likely to be better pros.  

 

So for example, if a wide receiver killed it on the broad jump versus his peers it has a bigger correlation as to him standing out as a pro versus outrunning the other receivers at the combine.  So that doesn't mean the broad jump is more important than speed for a receiver but that someone who jumped further at the combine had a stronger correlation to stand out above his peers at the combine versus their 40 time.    If I had to come up with a theory about that as an example -- lets say they are plenty of receivers who can run in the 4.5 range but there aren't that many that can jump 40" so now if you got a dude who shined on everything you are talking about a super athlete.  Kind of how I recall people raving about Barkley killing the combine last time.  

 

I recall reading an article about Beckham in that regard which is it wasn't just his speed but how he killed it in other categories that helped prove to the Giants he is as explosive as he looked on film. 

 

And point isn't that if you killed it in the combine in those categories that you'd be a star.  It just means that players that ended up standing out in the NFL beat their peers in those categories more so than the other categories.

 

As for the positions that stood out more just in general as for combine performance and how they played as pros --

 

Tier 1  (matters the most)

CB 

DE -- 3-4 type

DE -- 4-3 type

 

Tier 2 (matters the 2nd most)

OT

S

ILB

 

Tier 3 

WR

DT

 

Tier 4 (matters very little)

TE

Small Rbs

OG

 

Doesn't seem to matter at all

Centers

QB

Large Rbs

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

TheDraftNetwork now has a mock draft tool:

https://thedraftnetwork.com/mock-draft-machine

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

I assume this is the minimum threshold and if it's over that, big red flag? 

 

My guess is that it's not a minimum, it's just the range you want to see.  If there are mitigating factors, or the guy is an obvious stud, I would imagine that he could run slower without being flagged.  Some of those defensive 40 times are a little ambitious and there are good prospects who still ended up going pretty high who couldn't run that fast.