2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I really like the WR from UMass Isabela.  I hope we end up selecting him in the 3rd round.  I think he will be very successful in the NFL.  Watch his Combine time in the 40.  He could be the fastest of ALL WRs.  

 

Some of the best slot receivers are often shifty but not always fast.  Isabella looks to be both shifty and fast and clearly knows how to get open.   Some said he struggled at the Senior Bowl practices but then recovered with a good showing at the Senior Bowl game.   But with Quinn looking to start if Crowder isn't back -- and them arguably having a need at the X receiver, maybe Z.  i'd wonder if they'd look at slot guys since it might not be a need.  Though I am a BPA guy -- seems to be a deep draft at receiver. 

[Darth Tater]

If Dan looms in the background as a "splash", don't think it'll be QB. The only first rounders he has been involved in at all that worked well were either defense or offensive line. While he has owned the 'Skins, the trade-up splashes for QBs all met with failure (really may have set us back in the end) and the two WR are looking like busts.  While a couple of first round defensive picks were not great, they all at least were solid contributors for multiple years. The three best during his tenure were offensive linemen.  Sean Taylor may have been the best if he had not been murdered.

[Anselmheifer]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I really like the WR from UMass Isabela.  I hope we end up selecting him in the 3rd round.  I think he will be very successful in the NFL.  Watch his Combine time in the 40.  He could be the fastest of ALL WRs.  

He didn't have a bad game this year. Utterly destroyed Georgia with 15 catches for 219 yards. You don't see that very often against Georgia. 

 

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/3914328/andy-isabella

Isabella is my favorite WR prospect outside of the 1st/2nd. That being said, I think he could sneak into the 2nd. 

SIP, thanks for posting re McLauren. He looks like he could be a really good value later in the draft. I also really like Marquise Brown, but not at pick 15. Love Paris Campbell also. He's not really a deep threat, but is always a threat to turn a short gain into a long TD. I think he could replace a lot of what Thompson does for us. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

He didn't have a bad game this year. Utterly destroyed Georgia with 15 catches for 219 yards. You don't see that very often against Georgia. 

 

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/3914328/andy-isabella

Isabella is my favorite WR prospect outside of the 1st/2nd. That being said, I think he could sneak into the 2nd. 

SIP, thanks for posting re McLauren. He looks like he could be a really good value later in the draft. I also really like Marquise Brown, but not at pick 15. Love Paris Campbell also. He's not really a deep threat, but is always a threat to turn a short gain into a long TD. I think he could replace a lot of what Thompson does for us. 

 

Parris isn't a deep threat, I agree.  But with his speed I think he could be.   I posted clips of him during the season, taking screens and heck even hand offs some times and taking it pretty far.  And with Alex at the time being mostly about the short game, I thought Parris could help create some YAC.  Marquise could do the same.

 

I don't think I've ever been this intrigued by the combine as to a WR crew.  Should be real interesting to how it plays out especially with the guys with the reputation for being speed driven and or deep threats:  McLauren, Campbell, E. Hall, Jennings, etc.    Then you got some guys that are sort of tweener types like Ridley with reputations of being polished route runners but not big guys or fast guys.  Then the bigger guys like Harry, Metcalf, Harmon, Butler, etc.  

[SemperFi Skins]

Don't forget Deebo Samuel! I believe he'll have the best career out of the WR's coming out this year... I like Brown, a lot, but hard to tell where he will go since he can't do the combine or pro-day. 

[Anselmheifer]

13 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Don't forget Deebo Samuel! I believe he'll have the best career out of the WR's coming out this year... I like Brown, a lot, but hard to tell where he will go since he can't do the combine or pro-day. 

I think Deebo is going to be excellent. There are a cadre of WR's that I really like this year and could make a huge difference for us in terms of upgrading our offensive playmaking capability. 

[HigSkin]

Anybody else feel like Skins just won't draft a WR with the first given their history of failures?

 

2016	22	Josh Doctson	WR	Texas Christian

2001	15	Rod Gardner	WR	Clemson

1995	4	Michael Westbrook	WR	Colorado

1992	4	Desmond Howard	WR	Michigan

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Don't forget Deebo Samuel! I believe he'll have the best career out of the WR's coming out this year... I like Brown, a lot, but hard to tell where he will go since he can't do the combine or pro-day. 

Yeah I like Samuel a lot. It's a real good draft IMO for WR in the 2nd to 4th round range. A lot of intriguing prospects.

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Anybody else feel like Skins just won't draft a WR with the first given their history of failures?

 

2016	22	Josh Doctson	WR	Texas Christian

2001	15	Rod Gardner	WR	Clemson

1995	4	Michael Westbrook	WR	Colorado

1992	4	Desmond Howard	WR	Michigan

 

 They have been terrible at drafting receiver for the most part. But I think they go down that well again anyway this year and they should IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

Yes, I should have mentioned Kyle Smith as he has had ALOT of influence in the drafts.  When it comes to the drafts he hasn't had to make a decision on that position yet (i.e., we had KC and AS).  Does Doug Williams factor in since he was QB for the Skins in the SB and won.  Many intricate moving parts when it comes to those who will be involved in the guy we pick at QB.

 

Don't know as for Doug.

 

They just asked Hoffman on 106.7 on the Qbs.   He said he knows they like the tape on Murray and Jones.  He doesn't know about the others and suggested he probably will have a better feel for it because they will have a better feel for it post combine.

 

 

To pivot back to WR, I recall you were big on Settle last year and they took him.  So now I've seen multiple posts from you about Isabella -- maybe means we are taking him?  If so, you got the magic touch with Kyle. 😀

 

 

 

[PlayAction]

3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Isabella is my favorite WR prospect outside of the 1st/2nd. That being said, I think he could sneak into the 2nd. 

SIP, thanks for posting re McLauren. He looks like he could be a really good value later in the draft. I also really like Marquise Brown, but not at pick 15. Love Paris Campbell also. He's not really a deep threat, but is always a threat to turn a short gain into a long TD. I think he could replace a lot of what Thompson does for us. 

 

The Draft Network opinion on Isabella "A diminutive, non-physical player, Isabella wins with quickness and thrives in space. His best role would be as a slot/depth option on a team that looks to space the field and isolate their athletes one on one."  No upside as a blocker and limited ability to counter physical or quick footed defenders.

 

I'd like to see the Skins have more than one shifty slot option considering that Trey Quinn is unproven.  But I'm not sure I would devote a second round pick (even on trade down) for Isabella  if there are options at X.  I agree that 1st/2nd is too rich for the Skins.   

 

[crabbypatty]

On 2/16/2019 at 6:56 PM, HigSkin said:

A couple of interesting tidbits if true...FWIW and unverified...

 

 

This is what I like to hear. I like the kid, and he can be had in the 3rd most likely. I think he can start early with the Smith type offense and it can expand as he grows.

 

[crabbypatty]

On 2/17/2019 at 1:10 PM, mistertim said:

@Skinsinparadise  @Anselmheifer

 

I've recently begun taking in more film of Stidham as well. I'm still pretty so-so on him and I think you've both made some good points. His arm is impressive, his footwork is very smooth, his throwing motion is decent but I see a bit of a hitch in it that probably isn't too of a big deal since it still comes out pretty fast. He seems to go through progressions and doesn't appear to panic under pressure. Good athleticism, knows when to take off and pick up yards with his feet, and knows when to slide (thank god).

 

However, his accuracy worries me...but not just because he only had a mediocre completion percentage. In watching some game cutups I've noticed a pretty good amount of inaccurate passes, some of which were caught anyway by either a great effort by the WR, a good WR adjustment, or luck (guy was just really open so having to slow down and wait a little for the pass didn't matter). It also isn't only in one facet, ie mostly overthrows, mostly underthrows, or mostly behind guys; it was all three at various levels of the the field. I saw a decent number of overthrows on intermediate routes where he sailed the pass, a decent amount of underthrows on deep passes, and a decent amount thrown behind the guy on timing based crossing routes like digs, slants, etc.

 

As SIP mentioned, he interviews really well. I like his personality. He seems really honest, straightforward, and engaging. Lock is also a fun personality but his almost seems a bit over the top or forced at times, though that could easily just be a flawed perception on my part. Based on what I've seen so far I definitely don't think I'd take Stidham in the 1st round. 2nd round is still a bit iffy but not too bad. 3rd round he'd be a really good value I think. I certainly like him more than Jones though. 

 

That's the conclusion I came to about a week or two ago after watching the 2nd tier qb's. He's easily the best of the bunch, love his arm and footwork. His arm is not NFL elite, but close enough. He's a tough kid and playing in the SEC is no picnic. One thing to note though, his WR's were absolutely awful. I don't even know how they could be called wr's with all the passes they dropped that hit them in the hands.

I think in a easy starter qb friendly system like McVay ran with Cousins/Goff, he could put up some impressive numbers fairly early. They can do a bunch to help him out, hopefully the new OC isn't as stubborn with his "system" like Gruden is. I think Stidham has the tools to be a 10+ win qb with a decent cast around him.

 

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't know as for Doug.

 

They just asked Hoffman on 106.7 on the Qbs.   He said he knows they like the tape on Murray and Jones.  He doesn't know about the others and suggested he probably will have a better feel for it because they will have a better feel for it post combine.

 

 

To pivot back to WR, I recall you were big on Settle last year and they took him.  So now I've seen multiple posts from you about Isabella -- maybe means we are taking him?  If so, you got the magic touch with Kyle. 😀

 

 

 

Not magic but just players that I really like.   Isabella stood out at the Senior Bowl and if you look at NE they have a couple of Wes Welkers on their team and it's paid off for their O.  To me, Isabella is special.  He catches everything that comes his way plus he is very fast.  Again, watch his 40 time at the Combine.  I don't know if he makes it to the 3rd round.  I love Murray but if he's taken and we drafted Jones I would not be upset.  I really think a couple years in the NFL he will thrive.  When you have the same teacher that Eli and Peyton had and he speaks highly of you there has to be something there.

[mistertim]

16 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

That's the conclusion I came to about a week or two ago after watching the 2nd tier qb's. He's easily the best of the bunch, love his arm and footwork. His arm is not NFL elite, but close enough. He's a tough kid and playing in the SEC is no picnic. One thing to note though, his WR's were absolutely awful. I don't even know how they could be called wr's with all the passes they dropped that hit them in the hands.

I think in a easy starter qb friendly system like McVay ran with Cousins/Goff, he could put up some impressive numbers fairly early. They can do a bunch to help him out, hopefully the new OC isn't as stubborn with his "system" like Gruden is. I think Stidham has the tools to be a 10+ win qb with a decent cast around him.

 

 

Yeah his WRs weren't anything special, though they did make plays for him occasionally on off-target passes...but pretty much every QB gets that sometimes so that could possibly be considered a wash. As far as the 2nd tier QBs I do like Stidham more than Jones and Rypien, but I would take Grier before Stidham. IMO Grier is much more accurate and did more with just as bad a supporting cast (though Grier didn't play in the SEC so there's that). I think Grier in the 2nd would be a really good value and Stidham in the 3rd would be as well.

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Anybody else feel like Skins just won't draft a WR with the first given their history of failures?

 

2016	22	Josh Doctson	WR	Texas Christian

2001	15	Rod Gardner	WR	Clemson

1995	4	Michael Westbrook	WR	Colorado

1992	4	Desmond Howard	WR	Michigan

 

 

How about the 2nd through 7th rounds as well ? The whole draft, 1 thru 7 has been 95% failures or disappointments, at WR.

Here is every Non-First-Rounder WR we drafted, starting in 2017, going all the way back to 1992, the earliest year that you called up, for fair comparison.

 

Robert Davis

Evan Spencer

Jamison Crowder

Ryan Grant

Aldrick Robinson

Niles Paul

Leonard Hankerson

Terrence Austin

Marko Mitchell

Malcolm Kelly

Devin Thomas

Taylor Jacobs

Cliff Russell

Darnerien McCants

Rod Gardner

Ethan Howell

Tim Alexander

Pat Palmer

Albert Connell

DeAndre Maxwell

Tydus Winans

Terry Smith

 

Embarrassing list, isn't it ? Whoever scouts the college receivers for the Skins should be replaced in their entirety.

 

 

 

[mistertim]

To be fair, every single team has plenty of WRs they've drafted in various rounds who didn't work out. WR is one of the most hit or miss positions you can draft. We aren't the only team who's picked pass catchers in the 1st round who haven't panned out. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

But we havn't been hit or miss, at WR picks.

We've been Miss or Miss , almost entirely.

Meanwhile, every single year, I see numerous teams with rookie receivers just jump right in and contribute right away.

Let's face it, the only good WR's we've had, with the exception of Crowder, have been from trades or FA.

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

But we havn't been hit or miss, at WR picks.

We've been Miss, times infinity, almost literally.

Meanwhile, every single year, I see numerous teams with rookie receivers just jump right in and contribute right away.

Let's face it, the only good WR's we've had, with the exception of Crowder, have been from trades or FA.

 

I think it depends on the kind of bar you set for "contribute". We've had multiple non 1st round WRs who have contributed and had ok careers and/or are still in the league so I'd consider that a more or less successful mid to late round pick. Niles Paul, Aldrick Robinson, Ryan Grant for example. IMO Quinn looks legit from what we saw of him but obviously it's still early. I'm certainly not saying we've drafted well at WR but we haven't missed on every pick. 

[PlayAction]

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

We've had multiple non 1st round WRs who have contributed and had ok ccareers. I'm certainly not saying we've drafted well at WR but we haven't missed on every pick. 

Would you grade the scouting of WRs as a C?  Or significantly below average D at best?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

Not magic but just players that I really like.   Isabella stood out at the Senior Bowl and if you look at NE they have a couple of Wes Welkers on their team and it's paid off for their O.  To me, Isabella is special.  He catches everything that comes his way plus he is very fast.  Again, watch his 40 time at the Combine.  I don't know if he makes it to the 3rd round.  I love Murray but if he's taken and we drafted Jones I would not be upset.  I really think a couple years in the NFL he will thrive.  When you have the same teacher that Eli and Peyton had and he speaks highly of you there has to be something there.

 

As for Daniel Jones to me it depends on where they'd take him.  If he drops to the 2nd round as some but not all draft geeks think will happen -- I'd be fine with it.  But if they draft him in the first round over potential bonafide studs like Polite and Hochenson, etc. I'd be upset.   I'd get over it.  Just like I got over them skipping over Derwin James after a couple of weeks of whining about it.   😀 

 

And I'd hope in that case I am wrong about Jones and would root to be wrong.   I don't hate Jones as a person.  He often comes off shy and soft spoken -- where you'd think he needs a hug let alone people throwing negative things his way.  Finlay actually just talked yesterday about how low key and sort of anti-social (where he didn't want to do an interview and showed it) Jones came off to him in person. 

 

From what I've read, Cutcliffe isn't some magician.  Same dude who coached up Heath Shuler.  I am sure he's good at what he does but the Qb needs to have talent, too.

Jones being a successful QB in the NFL is possible especially if its a WCO that is mostly about quick short passes.  But based on what I've read as to the typical metrics to judge college QBs -- Jones would be an outlier if he succeeds.   The TD-INT ratio, the completion %, YPA, turnovers -- all of it screams that he will be a bust or a low tier QB in the NFL.  But for some reason some (far from all of them) draft geeks seem to believe that Jones needs to be graded on a curve.  So ok maybe whatever that curve is -- its going straight over my head.   

 

The only vision I have on him being successful is if you put him in more of a pure WCO -- then his skills are suited to it because he has a quick release and can complete flat route throws, hitches, screens, short crossers, quick slants -- all the 2-10 yard throws.  Sort of the Alex Smith thing.  His weaknesses according to some of whom charted him is accuracy on throws that are 10 yards plus, throwing in tight windows and running through progressions/multiple reads.

 

I could deal with what I perceive to me his limitations as a passer if I was taken by him as a dude.  But the fact that the dude is a quiet, soft spoken and some even say shy person adds to my concern about him.  As Bruce Arians says in his book, you don't have to be an extrovert to be a successful QB but it helps and from his experience most of the successful QBs are extroverts and leaders.  By Jones own admission he's neither.

 

So that's my long winded version of saying, I hope its not Daniel Jones in the first round.   If he falls into the 2nd round and they want to take a chance on him then what the heck.  I am not confident I got his NFL future pinned down one way or another.  But i have at least some confidence that his success in the NFL has a heavy projection component to it.  And I like guys who are more of a sure thing thing when you are drafting in the top half of the first round.

[mistertim]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for Daniel Jones to me it depends on where they'd take him.  If he drops to the 2nd round as some but not all draft geeks think will happen -- I'd be fine with it.  But if they draft him in the first round over potential bonafide studs like Polite and Hochenson, etc. I'd be upset.   I'd get over it.  Just like I got over them skipping over Derwin James after a couple of weeks of whining about it.   😀 

 

Well, it also helps that our pick panned out as well. Payne isn't the game-changing talent that James is but he was a solid pick and had a very good rookie season, so that makes missing out on James a bit easier to swallow. If we were to pick Jones over Big Hock, Polite, etc and they end up being studs (which I think they will) and Jones ends up being what I think he will be...completely mediocre at best...then we'll be grousing about it for some time to come.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well, it also helps that our pick panned out as well. Payne isn't the game-changing talent that James is but he was a solid pick and had a very good rookie season, so that makes missing out on James a bit easier to swallow. If we were to pick Jones over Big Hock, Polite, etc and they end up being studs (which I think they will) and Jones ends up being what I think he will be...completely mediocre at best...then we'll be grousing about it for some time to come.

 

Agree.  I made the same point before.  I flat out said that I thought Payne would be a good player but wasn't sure that he'd be great while I thought James would be great.  So that wasn't the end of the world and I do value DT highly as a position.  As for Jones, if I was boxed into a position -- I think he will be at best a marginal starter and at worst a bust.  That's a different ball game of what I thought of Payne even though i liked (and still do) James as a player more. 

 

The problem too with a QB unlike other positions is if you take one high -- you are pretty much signed up for that experiment for multiple years.  And if your QB situation stinks for multiple years, your team is typically really bad.  You can recover from a bad pick in other spots.  It's not easy to recover from a bad pick at QB.

 

And I can already tell that the dude's personality is just going to run salt into my wounds if he struggles as a player.  Hearing from a guy who met him at the senior bowl saying that the dude comes off really shy and struggled to even make eye contact and was so soft spoken you can barely even hear him -- that was the kicker to me. 

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for Daniel Jones to me it depends on where they'd take him.  If he drops to the 2nd round as some but not all draft geeks think will happen -- I'd be fine with it.  But if they draft him in the first round over potential bonafide studs like Polite and Hochenson, etc. I'd be upset.   I'd get over it.  Just like I got over them skipping over Derwin James after a couple of weeks of whining about it.   😀 

 

And I'd hope in that case I am wrong about Jones and would root to be wrong.   I don't hate Jones as a person.  He often comes off shy and soft spoken -- where you'd think he needs a hug let alone people throwing negative things his way.  Finlay actually just talked yesterday about how low key and sort of anti-social (where he didn't want to do an interview and showed it) Jones came off to him in person. 

 

From what I've read, Cutcliffe isn't some magician.  Same dude who coached up Heath Shuler.  I am sure he's good at what he does but the Qb needs to have talent, too.

Jones being a successful QB in the NFL is possible especially if its a WCO that is mostly about quick short passes.  But based on what I've read as to the typical metrics to judge college QBs -- Jones would be an outlier if he succeeds.   The TD-INT ratio, the completion %, YPA, turnovers -- all of it screams that he will be a bust or a low tier QB in the NFL.  But for some reason some (far from all of them) draft geeks seem to believe that Jones needs to be graded on a curve.  So ok maybe whatever that curve is -- its going straight over my head.   

 

The only vision I have on him being successful is if you put him in more of a pure WCO -- then his skills are suited to it because he has a quick release and can complete flat route throws, hitches, screens, short crossers, quick slants -- all the 2-10 yard throws.  Sort of the Alex Smith thing.  His weaknesses according to some of whom charted him is accuracy on throws that are 10 yards plus, throwing in tight windows and running through progressions/multiple reads.

 

I could deal with what I perceive to me his limitations as a passer if I was taken by him as a dude.  But the fact that the dude is a quiet, soft spoken and some even say shy person adds to my concern about him.  As Bruce Arians says in his book, you don't have to be an extrovert to be a successful QB but it helps and from his experience most of the successful QBs are extroverts and leaders.  By Jones own admission he's neither.

 

So that's my long winded version of saying, I hope its not Daniel Jones in the first round.   If he falls into the 2nd round and they want to take a chance on him then what the heck.  I am not confident I got his NFL future pinned down one way or another.  But i have at least some confidence that his success in the NFL has a heavy projection component to it.  And I like guys who are more of a sure thing thing when you are drafting in the top half of the first round.

I follow you.  Both of us are rooting for the FO to take Murray with #15 or even trade up a bit to get him and that's what I'm hoping for.  The Jones saga will play out soon enough as will Murray's.  Let's hope Murray dons B&G.   

[skins2victory]

NFL.com has Murray listed at 5'10" 195 lbs.

 

I will be very interested to see what his measurements are at the combine. If those measurements listed above are generous, and he is any less that that, then I want no part in taking a high pick on him.  The last thing we need as an organization is to waste a pick on someone who will have a difficult time staying healthy. With 300 plus pound men trying to hit him every time he takes a snap, I just don't see how someone of his small stature will be able to hold up through a season, let alone a career. RG3 2.0 but smaller🤮

[Malapropismic Depository]

You have to go back 37 years to Charlie Brown, (again with Crowder the only exception), to the last time the Redskins drafted a WR in ANY of their rounds, who had "above-average" production for our team.

I guess you could argue Albert Connell.

Now, if you wanted to find the last time we drafted a WR you would define as both true #1 and consistent, then you literally have to go back over 4 decades, maybe 5 or more, but it's to far for me to bother searching. But with no exceptions, in my entire lifetime, we have never drafted a true and consistent #1 WR.