2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Jericho]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

Jones would be such an incredibly uninspiring pick to me, especially at 15 overall. There doesn't seem to be anything he's particularly great at. He's just...mediocre to decent at a bunch of stuff. The only thing above average about him is his size and ability to move as such a big dude. Though one thing I will give to him is that his protection was **** so he seems to be pretty tough and not scared to take a hit. But are those things really enough to look past his pure mediocrity at everything else? Seems lots of people are putting too much stock into the fact that he was coached by the same dude who coached the Mannings on and off.

 

And his personality seems to be the exact same way...really boring and nothing stands out about it. I think in a better QB draft he'd be a 3rd rounder maybe. 

 

If somehow this team picks Daniel Jones in Round 1, I think I'll just have to stop being a fan for a few years. It'll be a disaster of a pick that will set the franchise back for years. As you mentioned, he's probably more of a third round pick. If you make him a third rounder, he's just a developmental guy on the team. Probably a wasted pick in the end, but livable. But in the first? Not only would it be horrendous value, but the team will give Jones a least a few years to do something, which he'll inevitably fail at. So I'll probably just wait for 2021 at that point.

[PlayAction]

7 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

If somehow this team picks Daniel Jones in Round 1, I think I'll just have to stop being a fan for a few years. It'll be a disaster of a pick that will set the franchise back for years. 

 

A lot of fans are just one straw away from breaking.  

[Poindexter]

6 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

A lot of fans are just one straw away from breaking.  

I would agree.

 

We need a face of the franchise and someone to bring people into the stadium.  I would much rather send the Giants our first round pick for OBJ then possibly draft a QB like Stidham in the 3rd round.  With our luck we draft Kyler Murray, he plays for a year and decided to move on to baseball.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Can anyone name 3 collegiate QB's that has ever had stats as bad as Daniel Jones and gone on to play well enough to justify the 15th pick in the first round? I can't name one. 

 

Yeah I was looking.  Your college stats are typically closer to your ceiling than floor. 

 

Jones:

completion % mediocre

YPA -- stinks

TD-INT ratio mediocre

QBR mediocre

is the leading fumbler among the QBs in this draft by far

if I recall also the leader in tipped passes

has an injury history

And the kicker is he admits he's not a leader -- saying he's not vocal but leads by example

 

Yes, he's a gritty dude, hangs in the pocket well, quick release, pretty motion, big dude who can move.  But IMO its totally a projection that he'd be a franchise QB

 

[bowhunter]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I was looking.  Your college stats are typically closer to your ceiling than floor. 

 

Jones:

completion % mediocre

YPA -- stinks

TD-INT ratio mediocre

QBR mediocre

is the leading fumbler among the QBs in this draft by far

if I recall also the leader in tipped passes

has an injury history

And the kicker is he admits he's not a leader -- saying he's not vocal but leads by example

 

Yes, he's a gritty dude, hangs in the pocket well, quick release, pretty motion, big dude who can move.  But IMO its totally a projection that he'd be a franchise QB

 

Tyree Jackson would be a "splash" even in the later rounds, but if his college stats are his ceiling, it might be similar to throwing the fat kid off the highdive. Lots of splash but eventual sinking.

[Skinsinparadise]

I've started digesting Jarrett Stidham.

 

And I've only looked at the good. Highlights from multiple good games from him.  Got to watch the bad ones and I know he had some clunkers.

 

At his best, the dude has a borderline rocket arm.  Not in Lock's league but not far off.  He can thread the needle when he wants to.  He has some athleticism and takes off at times in the RO.  He's a really good ball handler in the backfield.  In that way he reminds me of having Alex Smith's best attribute IMO which is selling play fakes, managing sweeps and all the backfield window dressing.  Heck he even takes an occasional ball from center so he might not have that shot gun to learning to play under center learning curve that other prospects have.    And some college QBS, see Blake Bortles, do struggle with that transition. 

 

I've decided to watch interviews of some of the players I am looking it, especially at QB, and Stidham so far is the most impressive to me.  He's incredibly poised and articulate for a dude his age.   He has a sense of humor and some personality, too.  When he says he's a leader and touts that about himself, I believe him.  I watched an excerpt about his high school career which was cool, too.  

 

I might do a 180 on him once I watch some full games where he didn't play well.  But doing what Mike Shanahan supposedly liked to do with prospects, watch their best and presume he can get that out of him -- Stidham is impressive.  His best play for me leapfrogs Grier and Rypien to me who were my favs purely as for the later round QBs.  I haven't rewatched Grier since the season but I'll get to it.  One thing that is clear to me is Stidham has a stronger arm than both.  He has a stronger arm than Daniel Jones, too.

 

In one of Stidham's interviews he attributed some of his descent from his heights from his previous year on a change on Auborn's offense.  But he took responsibility, too.  As a person, that dude comes off vey impressive.  As unimpressed as I get when watching Daniel Jones interview -- Stidham is on the opposite of that spectrum -- ultra impressive interview. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Tyree Jackson would be a "splash" even in the later rounds, but if his college stats are his ceiling, it might be similar to throwing the fat kid off the highdive. Lots of splash but eventual sinking.

 

Tyree has a rocket of an arm but he fits the criteria of can you fix accuracy issue in the pros?  Not sure he'd be a splash but I get your point that he might because of his tools.  

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Tyree has a rocket of an arm but he fits the criteria of can you fix accuracy issue in the pros?  Not sure he'd be a splash but I get your point that he might because of his tools.  

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this. Look at Josh Allen's stats this year. Also, I didn't realize that Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, and...Alex Smith had such bad completion percentages. All below 25th. 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jarrett-stidham-1.html

Stidham's completion percentage and YPA were solid. Just a low volume passer at Auburn. Also, he is mobile. Look at his tape vs Alabama. I don't think he's a first round value, but I'd take him in the 1st over Daniel Jones, to be sure. 

 

 

Edit: Here he is beating Georgia. My one criticism is that you see a million little WR screens and not a lot of pushing the ball down the field. 

 

 

[SkinsRx]

I'm almost banking on Kyler Murray being our first round draft pick this year as long as another team doesn't snatch him up first.  I predict our FO would even trade up for him if he was within striking distance, like somewhere around pick #10.  He just fits too perfectly into Snyder's business plan:  win in the offseason and produce a mediocre team for the regular season.  Murray is probably the most hyped name in this year's draft, so he'll definitely boost ticket sales next season if he winds up on our team.  I think Snyder would be happy with another season like RG3's rookie year from a business standpoint.  Compared to the other QBs in the draft, Murray would probably generate the most interest and excitement as long as his body holds up in the NFL.

 

Instead of surrounding himself with great NFL minds (which he's had plenty of time to do) to build a fundamentally sound NFL team and organization, Snyder chooses to run the team like a patchwork business and look for ways to boost sales every few years with splashy draft picks and/or free agents.  I'm on the same boat as everyone who's saying we should trade down and acquire more picks and fill other positions of need, so drafting Murray would be disappointing, but I have a strange feeling that's exactly what we're going to do.

[skinny21]

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This is coming from a guy who loved Love on the draft thread last year.

 

2 questions about Love that loomed from 2017 leading to 2018:

 

A.  Can he survive in the NFL with his slight build

B.  Unlike his predecessor (McCaffrey), he didn't prove he can be a weapon in the passing game. 

 

You can argue he at best keeps these same questions alive.  He was ok as a passing weapon but nothing killer.  HIs YPA was almost half the previous season.  And he got hurt.  My point is more about his build than anything else. 

Maybe you were quoting me as a launching point, but I wasn’t really referring to Love at all, just the philosophy of drafting guys with injuries.  

 

Regarding Love, I just don’t see the value for us, unless we got him quite late. I think he could serve as a solid backup to Thompson (but he hasn’t really shown that) while also serving as a number two back, but I just don’t think it’s worth it given the same points you made.  

 

 

 

.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Thanks for posting this. Look at Josh Allen's stats this year. Also, I didn't realize that Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, and...Alex Smith had such bad completion percentages. All below 25th. 

 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jarrett-stidham-1.html

Stidham's completion percentage and YPA were solid. Just a low volume passer at Auburn. Also, he is mobile. Look at his tape vs Alabama. I don't think he's a first round value, but I'd take him in the 1st over Daniel Jones, to be sure. 

 

 

Yeah if you look at Andy Dalton's stats in his last year versus Daniel Jones -- Dalton killed him, not even close.  Yeah I know its not fashionable to beat up on Alex post injury -- and I wish the dude the best because he's all class and going through something horrible -- but yeah he last year was a low YPA-low completion-low TD guy.  Daniel Jones would fit that box.

 

I don't know what to make of them kicking the tires on Joe Flacco if its true. Sounds like it was true to an extent.  But the narrative from Keim via Schefter that they talked and then decided the cap situation would preclude it.  Wouldn't they be aware of the cap situation without having to bother to kick the tires on it?

 

Only reason why am bringing this up here is wonder what this thought process means as to the draft.  For starters, it cements that they don't think Alex is coming back soon.  Looks like they want to make maybe some kind of aggressive move.  If its FA, it would play into what was discussed here yesterday which is if Bruce-Jay are in a win now mode this season -- a veteran fits that better than a rookie. 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

@Skinsinparadise  @Anselmheifer

 

I've recently begun taking in more film of Stidham as well. I'm still pretty so-so on him and I think you've both made some good points. His arm is impressive, his footwork is very smooth, his throwing motion is decent but I see a bit of a hitch in it that probably isn't too of a big deal since it still comes out pretty fast. He seems to go through progressions and doesn't appear to panic under pressure. Good athleticism, knows when to take off and pick up yards with his feet, and knows when to slide (thank god).

 

However, his accuracy worries me...but not just because he only had a mediocre completion percentage. In watching some game cutups I've noticed a pretty good amount of inaccurate passes, some of which were caught anyway by either a great effort by the WR, a good WR adjustment, or luck (guy was just really open so having to slow down and wait a little for the pass didn't matter). It also isn't only in one facet, ie mostly overthrows, mostly underthrows, or mostly behind guys; it was all three at various levels of the the field. I saw a decent number of overthrows on intermediate routes where he sailed the pass, a decent amount of underthrows on deep passes, and a decent amount thrown behind the guy on timing based crossing routes like digs, slants, etc.

 

As SIP mentioned, he interviews really well. I like his personality. He seems really honest, straightforward, and engaging. Lock is also a fun personality but his almost seems a bit over the top or forced at times, though that could easily just be a flawed perception on my part. Based on what I've seen so far I definitely don't think I'd take Stidham in the 1st round. 2nd round is still a bit iffy but not too bad. 3rd round he'd be a really good value I think. I certainly like him more than Jones though. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

@Skinsinparadise  @Anselmheifer

 

I've recently begun taking in more film of Stidham as well. I'm still pretty so-so on him and I think you've both made some good points. His arm is impressive, his footwork is very smooth, his throwing motion is decent but I see a bit of a hitch in it that probably isn't too of a big deal since it still comes out pretty fast. He seems to go through progressions and doesn't appear to panic under pressure. Good athleticism, knows when to take off and pick up yards with his feet, and knows when to slide (thank god).

 

My take on Stidham is only half baked right now, just watched his positive highlights from 4 games.  So not saying i am sold, yet.  I've got to watch some games fully.  Reading about him there is some questions about his accuracy as to his consistency from game to game, dealing with pressure and ability to properly go through progressions.

 

He's an interesting dude from the stand point that he was considered by some QB #1 before the 2018 season.   He fell off the map some. Then he was the star of the Senior Bowl practices.  I liked a lot of what I saw about his background and his interviews.  But I haven't fully digested everything about him as a player -- I've just looked at the glass half full version.  And my point on that is if the dude can be had in the 3rd-4th rd range, he might be intriguing because he does have some potential.  The three things that I was taken by was his NFL caliber arm, I liked his ball handling skills in the backfield, and he comes off like a big time leader type.

 

 

 

 

[CurseReversed]

The skins need to keep building this defense.  It showed flashes of being good last year but needs a few more pieces.  

 

The middle was the strength, then teams attacked outside and destroyed them.  They need DE and LB that can cover the edges AND make tackles.  If they can get some help on the edge and continue to build this solid group of young defensive players its possible they could see some drastic improvements.  

 

Also, if possible, they should continue to build on this Alabama theme.  I know a good players is more important but it cant hurt to try and continue to rub some of that alabama magic on a franchise that has arguably been cursed for a long time. 

 

 

Who are some alabama guys coming out on defense?  Could we use any of them?

 

Mack and Buggs are the only guys ive watched a vid on so far.  

Very Interested to see if the skins find them one or two more alabama guys this draft.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Last round prospect who I touted in the previous year draft thread and once this year.  Was one of the stars of the shrine game.  Can catch the ball, play special teams.  If they are looking for a younger Chris Thompson...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, CurseReversed said:

The skins need to keep building this defense.  It showed flashes of being good last year but needs a few more pieces.  

 

The middle was the strength, then teams attacked outside and destroyed them.  They need DE and LB that can cover the edges AND make tackles.  If they can get some help on the edge and continue to build this solid group of young defensive players its possible they could see some drastic improvements.  

 

Also, if possible, they should continue to build on this Alabama theme.  I know a good players is more important but it cant hurt to try and continue to rub some of that alabama magic on a franchise that has arguably been cursed for a long time. 

 

 

Who are some alabama guys coming out on defense?  Could we use any of them?

 

Mack and Buggs are the only guys ive watched a vid on so far.  

Very Interested to see if the skins find them one or two more alabama guys this draft.

 

 

My son is an Alabama fan.  We've saw two of their games in person last season and caught most of the rest of their games on TV.  As for first round talent, I am more intrigued by Alabama in 2020 -- Tua and their receivers, Jeudy, etc.

 

As for this year, the only player I like but don't love who might be available at 15 that makes sense to me is Jonah Williams -- they can start him at OG and then maybe later he's the heir apparent for Trent at LT. 

 

I was into Deionte Thompson and Mac Wilson early in the season but Thompson faded in the end and Mac had an up and down season.   I think 15 is a stretch for either one.  I think they both now drop to the 2nd round.  I don't know if they need more depth at DT, so not sure if they'd pursue Buggs who am guessing will be a third rounder?  Maybe Christian Miller as a pass rusher who also might be a third rounder I'd guess. 

 

If I had to take a guy from Alabama, my top guy would be hoping that Irv Smith drops to the 2nd round.  He's my third favorite TE in this draft.  He's dynamic for a TE, can catch and is a good blocker.   He's also only 20.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CurseReversed]

Quote

 

My son is an Alabama fan.  We've saw two of their games in person last season and caught most of the rest of their games on TV.  As for first round talent, I am more intrigued by Alabama in 2020 -- Tua and their receivers, Jeudy, etc.

 

As for this year, the only player I like but don't love who might be available at 15 that makes sense to me is Jonah Williams -- they can start him at OG and then maybe later he's the heir apparent for Trent at LT. 

 

I was into Deionte Thompson and Mac Wilson early in the season but Thompson faded in the end and Mac had an up and down season.   I think 15 is a stretch for either one.  I think they both now drop to the 2nd round.  I don't know if they need more depth at DT, so not sure if they'd pursue Buggs who am guessing will be a third rounder?  Maybe Christian Miller as a pass rusher who also might be a third rounder I'd guess. 

 

If I had to take a guy from Alabama, my top guy would be hoping that Irv Smith drops to the 2nd round.  He's my third favorite TE in this draft.  He's dynamic for a TE, can catch and is a good blocker.   He's also only 20.

 

I have been watching wilson a little more and like some of his abilities.  We need speed and athleticism in the lb's to cover the edges. 

Whats your take on him out of the first round

worth a 2nd or 3rd pick?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Our biggest contracts as it currently stands come off the books in the next 2 years. Norman, Trent, Reed, Smith, Kerrigan. 

 

I know we need some impzct players but id love to go the Colts route. You’ve gotta hit on your 2s and 3s but they did so and have a ton of rookie contracts and $108 million in cap space. Would love to be in that position in 2-3 years. Obv will need to pay guys like Allen Payne Ionidis and Scherff but I think loading on rookies next 2 years via draft will set us up nicely in 2020 and beyond 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, CurseReversed said:

 

I have been watching wilson a little more and like some of his abilities.  We need speed and athleticism in the lb's to cover the edges. 

Whats your take on him out of the first round

worth a 2nd or 3rd pick?

 

Maybe a 2nd, doubt he lasts until the third.  He's a good coverage MLB -- could play either MLB spot.  He's a really good athlete and looks like a safety sometimes as to his hands and ball hawking skills.  He was used to do a bit of everything with Alabama's defense including rushing the passer from the A gap or sometimes even off the edge.   Good side line to side line speed and plays with energy.  He's close friends with Sean Dion Hamilton. 

 

He seems to have a little Zack Brown in him as to being fooled by misdirection and taking bad angles.  He's not always a sound tackler.  In the 2nd round, I wouldn't hate the pick but there are potentially players I like better at that spot.  And if we are talking pure Alabama. I'd take Irv Smith at that spot if he falls over Mack.

 

 

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Intriguing graphic and stats. Do they explain somewhere exactly how they come up with the numbers they do and what criteria they used to determine them?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Intriguing graphic and stats. Do they explain somewhere exactly how they come up with the numbers they do and what criteria they used to determine them?

 

looks like its QB ratings matched to pressure per play.  

[CurseReversed]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe a 2nd, doubt he lasts until the third.  He's a good coverage MLB -- could play either MLB spot.  He's a really good athlete and looks like a safety sometimes as to his hands and ball hawking skills.  He was used to do a bit of everything with Alabama's defense including rushing the passer from the A gap or sometimes even off the edge.   Good side line to side line speed and plays with energy.  He's close friends with Sean Dion Hamilton. 

 

He seems to have a little Zack Brown in him as to being fooled by misdirection and taking bad angles.  He's not always a sound tackler.  In the 2nd round, I wouldn't hate the pick but there are potentially players I like better at that spot.  And if we are talking pure Alabama. I'd take Irv Smith at that spot if he falls over Mack.

 

 

Sounds about right.   He has some good potential and his skill set is what I think they really need right now.   would not mind it at all if they picked him in the 2nd.   An alabama defensive player with a skill set of need, that they could get at near value, must be a very attractive option to the skins draft guys.   The more I think about it the more I think that If he is close to their range where they pick there is a strong chance they take him.   Too many intangibles, too much coincidence. 

 

I like drafting a TE high this year too.  I dont know Irv's game  but it would not be a bad bpa pick if he is good. 

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

looks like its QB ratings matched to pressure per play.  

 

Thanks. I'd really like to see what the actual numbers are for that chart, as "<100" and ">100" doesn't tell us all that much as less than 100 could include 30 as well as 99. Personally i'd grade them as being good or bad depending on where they fall in a range as opposed to drawing a hard/arbitrary line. Interesting that Haskins is said to be "bad" at dealing with pressure in the pocket as I got a feeling from watching him (which is only a moderate amount so far) that he was actually pretty decent at it. Lock I'm not surprised as I've seen that multiple times from watching his game cutups.

[mhd24]

At this point, if Hockenson, Murray, or Lock are not at 15, I'm trading down if I can.  This draft has depth at WR, TE, and interior o-line in the late first early 2nd.  I'm not loving anyone else that could be there at 15.  I don't want Haskins.

[Jericho]

11 hours ago, SkinsRx said:

I'm almost banking on Kyler Murray being our first round draft pick this year as long as another team doesn't snatch him up first.  I predict our FO would even trade up for him if he was within striking distance, like somewhere around pick #10.  He just fits too perfectly into Snyder's business plan:  win in the offseason and produce a mediocre team for the regular season.  Murray is probably the most hyped name in this year's draft, so he'll definitely boost ticket sales next season if he winds up on our team.  I think Snyder would be happy with another season like RG3's rookie year from a business standpoint.  Compared to the other QBs in the draft, Murray would probably generate the most interest and excitement as long as his body holds up in the NFL.

 

Instead of surrounding himself with great NFL minds (which he's had plenty of time to do) to build a fundamentally sound NFL team and organization, Snyder chooses to run the team like a patchwork business and look for ways to boost sales every few years with splashy draft picks and/or free agents.  I'm on the same boat as everyone who's saying we should trade down and acquire more picks and fill other positions of need, so drafting Murray would be disappointing, but I have a strange feeling that's exactly what we're going to do.

 

Calling the Redskins "splashy" seems misguided. Snyder has been known as a free spender, though I'd point out that hasn't been true for some time and it at least seemed to come from a good place, i.e. it wasn't about signing "big names" to sell tickets as much as signing good players to fill a roster that had been left pretty devoid of talent due to poor drafting and/or trading of picks. And let's face it, most of the players acquired were not "huge" names. I know the fans and the media love skill position acquisitions (RB, WR, and especially QBs), but that doesn't always mean the moves are "splashy". Teams need those players too. When the team traded up to pick Robert Griffin, it wasn't about selling tickets as much as a legit attempt to acquire a true franchise QB. Griffin was almost certain to be drafted #2 by someone that year. The obvious problem with the Griffin deal was: (1) it didn't work, and (2) the team paid a steep price to even attempt it.

 

I've never really doubted the team's intent to win. You make it seem like the team has consistently made moves it knew were not the best football wise just to make a bigger headline in the media. I've never thought that was the case. Nor do I think many of the moves fooled significant number of ticket buyers. I can certainly criticize the intelligence behind many of the moves. And the Redskins have generally done a poor job of hiring (and keeping) smart football people. So there's a lot of criticism to go around. But I do believe the decision makers thought they were doing good things, even if they often took the short-term quick fix attempts at the expense of long-term building.

 

Which would bring me to Murray. He's a clearly talented prospect. His height and build make him a fairly unique prospect, but one that could have a wide range of outcomes. Even if the team did draft Murray, I doubt it would really sell *that* many more tickets. But I don't really have doubts that if the team did it, it's because: (1) the team needs a QB (very obvious); and (2) he's the best option available (and really, outside of Haskins no other QB even comes close to Murray as a prospect). So it's hard to see that not being a legit football move.