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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

Vanguard

By Vanguard
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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
On 12/4/2018 at 2:45 PM, method man said:

The more I think about it, this offseason is the time to move over full time to a 4-3. We really are set up to do so. I would go with the following setup:

 

RDE: ??? (More on Ion in a minute, should let Smith go in order to get a comp pick)

DT: Payne / Settle

DT: Allen
LDE: Kerrigan / Anderson

 

SLB: Zach Brown

MLB: Reuben Foster (if he isn't suspended) / Vigil / SDH

WLB: ??? (maybe Harvey-Clemons) - this tends to be someone who is 230ish and can cover well

 

CB1: ???

CB2: Dunbar

Nickel: Moreau

FS: Nicholson

SS: Swearinger

 

It is clear Norman is not worth $15M/yr anymore. The upcoming FA market is light in terms of finding a #1 corner. I would push to trade Ion for Jalen Ramsey, who seems to have fallen out of favor in Jacksonville. Although Ngakkoue is a beast, Malik Jackson's play has fallen off a cliff. We are not going to be able to afford Ion long term once Payne and Allen are up for extensions so we should try to get value for him now.

 

I would let both Clinton-Dix and Smith leave to get comp picks. They will be overpaid for the type of performance they have brought to the table.

 

It is worth noting that given so many teams have switched to a 3-4, it is cheaper to maintain a quality 4-3 defense. As you guys see above, 2 potential holes are a starting RDE and starting WLB. Fortunately, the supply for these roles really outpaces the demand so it is not going to be the hardest thing in the world to find cost effective solutions for both roles

 

Still not sure why anyone is harping on this. The guys we have right now on the DL are ideally suited to playing in a 3-4 base. DL is probably the toughest area to fill correctly when you're running a 3-4 and now that we've finally done it, people want to change.

 

Besides, as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, we don't even run a "pure" 3-4 all that often and the 3-4/4-3 thing isn't even very defined nowadays in the NFL given how pass happy the league is. We're often in nickel package and/or an Under defensive front 7 which pretty much mimics a 4-3...you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference between the two. 

 

I think we have more pressing issues on the defense than worrying a bunch about what our theoretical "base" package is.

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method man

method man

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1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I suspect the fact he's played more than 275 snaps drags him into that lofty ranking.

 

I think there is a general feeling he's been bad because of the NO and ATL games. However, he's been fairly solid since, starting with the TB game. 

 

Danny Johnson, however, has been absolute trash. Adonis should be getting snaps ahead ofh im

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

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41 minutes ago, method man said:

 

I think there is a general feeling he's been bad because of the NO and ATL games. However, he's been fairly solid since, starting with the TB game. 

 

Danny Johnson, however, has been absolute trash. Adonis should be getting snaps ahead ofh im

 

 

I agree, and he looks like he's the best open field tackler we have on the field at times.  He got hit on a double move vs ATL, he was matched up against Beckham on an Island on 3rd and 18 and Beckham made a circus catch through PI to beat him.. He's got quite a bit to develop as a PR if we want to use him there, but as a 7th round pick, the kid has flashed. 

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method man

method man

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22 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I agree, and he looks like he's the best open field tackler we have on the field at times.  He got hit on a double move vs ATL, he was matched up against Beckham on an Island on 3rd and 18 and Beckham made a circus catch through PI to beat him.. He's got quite a bit to develop as a PR if we want to use him there, but as a 7th round pick, the kid has flashed. 

 

Oh right. That first Giants game felt like the game he started to turn things around, though. After that Beckham catched, he had a great breakup on Sterling Shepard 

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Oh right. That first Giants game felt like the game he started to turn things around, though. After that Beckham catched, he had a great breakup on Sterling Shepard 

 

 

The play of the game imho.... APs run might just beat it out but if shepard catches that... who knows how that game ends up. 

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JSSkinz

JSSkinz

Posted
Posted

So Derwin James has played lights out all year, I don't know if he would have had the same type of season here but I don't think its debatable that he would have been a better pick than Payne based on the other young players we have and how weak our safety play is.

 

I like Payne and think it was a solid pick, 45 tackles, 5 sacks and a FF for a 21 year old DT is pretty good, from what I see he graded pretty well for a rookie so by no means was the pick a miss for the Skins but James is elite.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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Posted
47 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

So Derwin James has played lights out all year, I don't know if he would have had the same type of season here but I don't think its debatable that he would have been a better pick than Payne based on the other young players we have and how weak our safety play is.

 

I like Payne and think it was a solid pick, 45 tackles, 5 sacks and a FF for a 21 year old DT is pretty good, from what I see he graded pretty well for a rookie so by no means was the pick a miss for the Skins but James is elite.

Payne will be a good to very good player for a long time. But James is going to win DPOTYs. Plural.

 

We missed out on the next Sean Taylor. :(

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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted

You build from the basement to the roof. Not the roof, then the first floor, then the second floor and then the basement.

 

Payne this year and Allen last year was just about the best thing this franchise has done in decades.

 

Build a DL foundation first. Next should be LBs and SS, then corners/FS.

 

James is absolutely special. But this franchise has attempted to build the half ass way and its never worked. This is literally the one thing that I think they've done well. 

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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You build from the basement to the roof. Not the roof, then the first floor, then the second floor and then the basement.

 

Payne this year and Allen last year was just about the best thing this franchise has done in decades.

 

Build a DL foundation first. Next should be LBs and SS, then corners/FS.

 

James is absolutely special. But this franchise has attempted to build the half ass way and its never worked. This is literally the one thing that I think they've done well. 

Yeah, I’ve got to agree with this.  Payne was/is an important building block for this D.  Perhaps we’d still have found a good dlineman later if we had picked James in the first, but I can’t fault them for going with Payne.

 

I do wish they had landed a guard in the 3rd or 4th, but 1) that’s hindsight (who knew Christian would be forced to play early and then get injured, or that Apke would get hurt and we’d trade for Dix), and 2) you’ve got to follow your board.  Apke seemed like a reach, but no telling if they liked any guards in that range.  

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JSSkinz

JSSkinz

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, KDawg said:

You build from the basement to the roof. Not the roof, then the first floor, then the second floor and then the basement.

 

Payne this year and Allen last year was just about the best thing this franchise has done in decades.

 

Build a DL foundation first. Next should be LBs and SS, then corners/FS.

 

James is absolutely special. But this franchise has attempted to build the half ass way and its never worked. This is literally the one thing that I think they've done well. 

I totally agree with building the team from the inside out but watching him play last night and seeing his playmaking ability makes me wonder if he doesn't drastically change the way teams carve up our secondary.

 

I don't have buyers remorse on Payne, he's 21 and he's had a very solid season but there were many who wanted James and I don't think either side was right or wrong.

 

We do have Settle, Matty I, McGee, and Allen so it wasn't like we would have been thin at that position, obviously we didn't know Settle would be there that late but if we did I wonder if we make the same 1st round pick.

 

 

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veteranskinsfan

veteranskinsfan

Posted
Posted

Redskins will take care of this quietly with local prosecutor during the off season.  This has been their m.o. for years even dating back to the Gibbs years. I wonder if Gruden will do anything to Montae like fine him or do something else to get across to him that he cannot be in the news media headlines.

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skinny21

skinny21

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Posted

I know it’s not going to happen, but I still think we should bring back Galette for these last games.  Our DTs are making it hard for qbs to really step up in the pocket and a speed rusher could take advantage of that.  

 

Of course that can trickle down - to the secondary, allowing them to play closer to the LOS, to the opposing coach in terms of how often they call slower developing pass plays/7 step drops, etc.  Most importantly of course, it likely ups our 3rd and long defense.  

 

 

On a different note, I liked reading about Hamilton in the breaking news section (thanks as always @Wildbunny!).  

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