Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[No Excuses]

31 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

what qualifies serious here to you?

 

I ask because I can’t quite figure out where the line will be drawn when the context was fighting the Clinton political machine for the presidency (after 8 years of obama)

 

the people on the right are convinced obama was terrible for this country, and that if Clinton won she would get two terms and basically continue the obama era policies for another 8 years. They were and are very against this. 

 

When we start talking about big time support for impeachment... I think you may be being a bit optimistic... I’m not sure. 

 

He needs to be impeached if he or his campaign members are found guilty of conspiring with the Russian government to interfere in the 2016 election. You cannot have a US president who enlisted the help of a foreign adversary to assume power. 

 

I also think he should be impeached for obstruction of justice but that may be a more difficult sell. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by No Excuses

[Kilmer17]

Him

6 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

He needs to be impeached if he or his campaign members are found guilty of conspiring with the Russian government to interfere in the 2016 election. You cannot have a US president who enlisted the help of a foreign adversary to assume power. 

 

I also think he should be impeached for obstruction of justice but that may be a more difficult sell. 

 If he conspired then absolutely.  If someone else did without his knowledge, probably not.  

 

And not for obstruction 

[Renegade7]

16 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

 

Sorry folks.  You’re overreacting.  And in doing so are damaging your own credibility and ability to convince folks you have a solution. 

 

 

 

*checking credibility pulse

 

Think I'm good.

 

The point of the OP is to not try to convince Trump supporters of anything anymore, they are inconvincible.  There are more then enough people not interested in waiting for him to win Dictator bingo to get him out of office that aren't as hard to convince, so you can believe whatever you to believe.

 

You look like that dog with the house on fire saying everything is fine.  For you, maybe.

 

So peaceful out here, hope it stays that way.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Renegade7

[Momma There Goes That Man]

9 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Him

 If he conspired then absolutely.  If someone else did without his knowledge, probably not.  

 

And not for obstruction 

 

Trying to obstruct justice to protect his friends is not an impeachable offense to you? 

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Trying to obstruct justice to protect his friends is not an impeachable offense to you? 

 

I don’t think the Dems will impeach for obstruction. 

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

*checking credibility pulse

 

Think I'm good.

 

The point of the OP is to not try to convince Trump supporters of anything anymore, they are inconvincible.  There are more then enough people not interested in waiting for him to win Dictator bingo to get him out of office that aren't as hard to convince, so you can believe whatever you to believe.

 

You look like that dog with the house on fire saying everything is fine.  For you, maybe.

 

So peaceful out here, hope it stays that way.

When you scream fire every day, eventually people stop hearing you. 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

When you scream fire every day, eventually people stop hearing you. 

There are people in here smart enough to show you where the real ones are and you wont listen to them either.  You not trying to tell the difference tells me to don't care anyway.

[Kilmer17]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

There are people in here smart enough to show you where the real ones are and you wont listen to them either.  You not trying to tell the difference tells me to don't care anyway.

I am.  The problem is people coming from the position that absolutely everything Trump and the GOP does is not only bad, but a constitutional crisis. And anyone who doesn’t toe that line is complicit

Edited June 6, 2018 by Kilmer17

[No Excuses]

32 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

 If he conspired then absolutely.  If someone else did without his knowledge, probably not.  

 

And not for obstruction 

 

If it’s anyone in his top brass, ie his son, son-in-law, campaign managers etc, he deserves to be impeached. 

 

Zero chance that someone high up on on his campaign would do this without him knowing. And if he’s found guilty of obstruction to go along with it, then that is even more reason to hold him accountable. 

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I am.  The problem is people coming from the position that absolutely everything Trump and the GOP does is not only bad, but a constitutional crisis. And anyone who doesn’t toe that line is complicit

 

Everything is a big word. 

 

From my perspective Trump isn't 100% wrong on everything, but the direction he is heading absolutely is.  You are coming across like defending Trump on the standpoint that too much of what he's doing is being overblown, that is not a hill worth dying on. 

 

You should not take specific examples of steps other people have taken get what what are warning about and throw it in a blender with Stormy Daniels.  He's not joking when he says stuff like wanting serve more then 8 years or pardon himself, he's putting out feelers to see if his base supports it so he can try force the rest of the GOP to support it, too.

 

You are giving this guy a benefit of the doubt he does not deserve.  @Bang will tell you, I'm an optimist, but what your doing is something different.  F the trees and the forest.

[Larry]

38 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

 

And not for obstruction 

 

Seriously?  

 

You are actually declaring that in your opinion, a President firing the Director of the FBI, because the director failed to promise, in advance, to protect the President's staff from an ongoing national security investigation, isn't an impeachable offense?  

 

And I used to respect you. 

[DogofWar1]

8 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Really?  What force has he used to suppress the opposition?   What industry has he grabbed control of?   

 

Sorry folks.  You’re overreacting.  And in doing so are damaging your own credibility and ability to convince folks you have a solution. 

 

 

Um.

 

NFL kneeling issue.  He just lost a case about blocking people on twitter.  He had an entire bogus voter commission that thank goodness got shut down.  He refused to allow the Dem memo to be released in order to allow Nunes' bs memo to exist unfettered in the public consciousness.  He calls for media suppression on a daily basis.  His administration wants to add a citizenship question to the census which everyone agrees would drastically reduce immigrant responses and thus lower their representation.  He tried to get the Postal service to charge Amazon more money because he doesn't like Bezos.  He's fired numerous government officials for bad reasons, reasons we come to learn are lies, and plenty of other crap.

 

 

As for industry control, um, do you know what tariffs are?  He's literally making industries die by his whim.  Or what about that time he called out Boeing on twitter based on erroneous information and caused their stock to drop?  Are you aware he's told Perry to make people buy from coal plants that could be retired instead of newer sources of energy, literally choosing winners and losers in the energy industry?  He's interfered in the AT&T - Time Warner merger inappropriately.  And again, tried to use the postal service to hurt Amazon.

 

 

Ah but of course, these things, which are totally beyond the pale for any normal administration, and would result in instant impeachment if done prior to 2016, are totally fine because it doesn't meet every possible definition.  Like he has to order martial law and seize the means of production in their entirety before we can even suggest he has fascist tendencies.

 

And if he did those things, it would be the fault of the libs, because they failed to stop him with violence.

[Kilmer17]

7 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Seriously?  

 

You are actually declaring that in your opinion, a President firing the Director of the FBI, because the director failed to promise, in advance, to protect the President's staff from an ongoing national security investigation, isn't an impeachable offense?  

 

And I used to respect you. 

I did not say that.  I am saying the Dems won’t impeach him for obstruction.  

[twa]

50 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

a President firing the Director of the FBI, because the director failed to promise, in advance, to protect the President's staff from an ongoing national security investigation

 

do you have firm proof of exactly that?

 

not speculation or someone's opinion, but rather proof

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Let's talk about the real crisis facing our country... people self-identifying as whatever the hell they want despite very clearly not possessing the main characteristics that would qualify them to be that thing. Like Trump and his supporters calling themselves Republicans.

[tshile]

2 hours ago, No Excuses said:

He needs to be impeached if he or his campaign members are found guilty of conspiring with the Russian government to interfere in the 2016 election. You cannot have a US president who enlisted the help of a foreign adversary to assume power. 

 

I also think he should be impeached for obstruction of justice but that may be a more difficult sell. 

I agree with you. 

 

But you need the votes. And I don’t think your general description is going to get them. 

[tshile]

As for the fascist stuff.... 

 

trump doesnt have the balls to be a true fascist. 

 

But he wants to be one. He admires authoritarian dictators. He’s just too big a **** to ever be one. 

 

The real problem is the precedent being set. In 2020 are we going to see trump go up against a normal politician? If he/she wins will we see a normal executive branch? Or are we seeing what an executive branch can get away with? We don’t normally see that branch give up “power” (if that’s what this is) on its own even when it changes hands. 

Edited June 6, 2018 by tshile

[88Comrade2000]

Dems win the House, everyone knows they will impeach Trump,  That will be it, there will be no conviction.

[Larry]

8 hours ago, twa said:

 

do you have firm proof of exactly that?

 

not speculation or someone's opinion, but rather proof

 

You mean, other than the fact that he said so?  

[Llevron]

9 hours ago, No Excuses said:

 

Zero chance that someone high up on on his campaign would do this without him knowing. And if he’s found guilty of obstruction to go along with it, then that is even more reason to hold him accountable. 

 

You shouldn't have to explain this to anyone rational. 

[Going Commando]

10 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

And in doing so are damaging your own credibility and ability to convince folks you have a solution. 

 

We're not the ones with the credibility problem.  But you and other fence-sitting conservatives who actually have some education and should know better than to continue to carry water for the ****ing GoP and spread their lies and false equivalencies have shown your asses.

[Llevron]

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

We're not the ones with the credibility problem.  But you and other fence-sitting conservatives who actually have some education and should know better than to continue to carry water for the ****ing GoP and spread their lies and false equivalencies have shown your asses.

 

This is what bugs me. They are smart enough not to fall for this **** yet they do so willingly because they can't give up on their point. 

[Zguy28]

11 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

Really?  What force has he used to suppress the opposition?   What industry has he grabbed control of?   

 

Sorry folks.  You’re overreacting.  And in doing so are damaging your own credibility and ability to convince folks you have a solution. 

 

 

They are reacting the way Trump wants them too, because they have no choice. He's like a Sith Lord.

[TradeTheBeal!]

A Sith Lord?!?

 

Pathetic.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Zguy28 said:

They are reacting the way Trump wants them too, because they have no choice. He's like a Sith Lord.

You calling people that oppose Trump the sheep and making Star Wars references shows that he's winning right now.

 

How exactly are people supposed to react to someone using the Information Age against us to try to destroy the credibility of any entity opposing him?

 

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

This is what bugs me. They are smart enough not to fall for this **** yet they do so willingly because they can't give up on their point. 

 

This thread is 32 pages long and it just shows what's already been said, some people don't want to get it.  It's like we haven't figured out the secret password or something yet:

 

 

[Bang]

12 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

 

When you scream fire every day, eventually people stop hearing you. 

And if there's indeed a fire, those dumbasses burn. Especially every single time you say "fire" they counter with "No fire. Fake fire. You're the one on fire." They keep the fire fed.

 

Not everything he does is a constitutional crisis.

However, if he has sold us out to the Soviet, then all of what he did immediately does not matter.

He is not just playing fast and loose with the constitution, this isn't just American politicians pushing American political limits and boundaries. 

Treason at THAT level is something we've never ever had to deal with.

 

Fire.

Fire.

Fire.

 

~Bang

Edited June 6, 2018 by Bang