2018 Draft Day Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

If James was a slam dunk pick he'd be in Tampa right now.

 

No such thing of course as a slam dunk pick or its very rare.   Both Tandler and Cooley were around Redskins Park and talked to some of the people there -- both seem to suggest that they don't think he was tops on their board -- not even now.  Jay in his own comments sounded a bit wishy washy as to Payne being tops on the board -- some comments allude to yes, some no.  So I think there is a least a chance that this argument really is do you draft for need or BPA?  That's the core of my issue at least.

 

For those like Steve McQueen who are selling the pick after selling it on the draft board for quite some time -- I get it, they are consistent and it makes sense to sell it here, too.   But likewise those who liked James and or Edmunds distinctly over Payne are being consistent, too. And its all a guessing game.  So I don't think anyone can seriously say with slam dunk assurance that they are right about any player in the draft.  It's hard enough for the professionals to get it right.

 

I don't think where a player was taken is vindication one way or another unless its something really egregious. Otherwise playing off of the same point, we should challenge the accepted premise here that Allen was a steal last year.  If SD likewise sees Derwin as a surprise steal than that's valid in concept until the season starts and then will see.

 

As for Payne, there are four things I like about the pick

A. Tomsula might be able to coach him into being really good

B. I like finally addressing nose

C. i am not going to lose sleep over Hankins anymore

D. If need drives this draft it opens things up for running back - maybe in the 2nd round. 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

From MartinC's post: Payne did not show many weaknesses.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

We have the 12th pick in the 2nd round. A ton of really good looking prospects. If we do trade back, I hope we dont trade out of the 2nd entirely. Id rather have a 2nd vs a 3rd and 4th. 

 

DE Landry

G Hernandez

CB Jackson, Oliver

C James

DT Hurst 

 

^^ If any of these guys are available, id take them and not move back. 

 

But man, seems like 2-3 rounds are really good this year. 

 

WR Kirk, Chark, Miller, Washington

TE Goedert, Gesicki

RB Guice, Chubb, Jones, Johnson

OL Williams, Brown

S Reid, Harrison

DT Phillips

 

Thats 21 guys right there. Im sure there are edge rushers, cb and other players who should be listed as well. 

 

So jealous of teams like the Browns, Colts Bucs. 

 

[Est.1974]

@Skinsinparadise I've flipped opinion a bit over time, but months ago I felt and posted our pick pick would simply be the best Bama defender on the board. All chatter aside, I do think it was ultimately that predictable.

 

Allen was the consensus first choice last year, Anderson became a lock pick on day 2. Hell, other than Payne we we taking Fitzpatrick I bet.

 

 

[Dan T.]

Oh my goodness I love the first line about Da'Ron Payne under "Strengths":

 

Built like a wall of granite with exceptional lean muscle mass.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

@Skinsinparadise I've flipped opinion a bit over time, but months ago I felt and posted our pick pick would simply be the best Bama defender on the board. All chatter aside, I do think it was ultimately that predictable.

 

Allen was the consensus first choice last year, Anderson became a lock pick on day 2. Hell, other than Payne we we taking Fitzpatrick I bet.

 

 

 

I get those who are into the pick.  I spent a lot of time on Payne.  He and Guice were the first guys I touted last year on the draft thread way back in the fall of 2017.   I also know the draft geeks who like him and I know the ones who aren't in love with the guy.  I can post some of the criticism but I'll refrain.   

 

It's a hard thread to weave as to making the point of liking (but not loving) a player but not liking a pick.  Just like with Alex Smith, I'd have liked the acquistion if he were a FA but didn't like giving up picks-youth for him.  As for Payne, if we were picking 23 instead of 13, I'd be digging it, too.

 

My son is a big Alabama guy.  I watch plenty of Alabama.  I get the "coolness" of saying hey we got an Alabama guy and heck he's a D lineman.  Isn't D line our top need?  Isn't Alabama great?  What else is to see here?    I think for me its spending a lot of time dissecting Payne and Vea and also hearing-reading what people are saying about both.  Cooley really brought it home for me a couple of weeks ago because he articulated very well the impression I was forming which is GOOD player not GREAT -- probably won't be great.  And here are some guys on the verge of greatness who will likely be great who are better choices.

 

But anyway, I should stop on this to improve my mood.  The Payne pick for me will feel a lot better if I like their next move.  If they end up with Payne and Hernandez or Payne and Chubb or Guice -- then I can dig it.  Payne to me isn't a Batman pick but more of a Robin type  -- if they get Batman in round 2 than Robin to me flows fine. 

31 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

From MartinC's post: Payne did not show many weaknesses.

 

I might feel tempted to post some of the criticisms later.  I'll just say if you will look for the praise on Payne you will find it.  If you look for the criticism, you'll find it too.   

 

Greg Cosell who wrote that write up was one of the guys who fooled me about RG3, said he's better than Luck before the draft, pure stud.  He also didn't think Kirk would be much of a player -- more of a backup.

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, Long n Left said:

If they trade with the Saints, probably don't get Payne. Word is the Lions wanted him.

I'd have been OK with that given what the Saints gave up to move to pick 14. 

[RabidFan]

We are one LG away from farming both our lines starters thru the draft.  That is a great statistic in my book!!

 

 

[Going Commando]

46 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

From MartinC's post: Payne did not show many weaknesses.

 

He's clean.  Clean skill set and clean body.  33 inch arms is good.  Not carrying bad weight.  Only 20 years old.  No significant injury history.  He's a special NT prospect and guys like him don't come around often.

[Skinsinparadise]

CBS, 2nd round draft, if this happens I'd be doing cartwheels.  Only thing I hate about it is they state what to me is the obvious, Giants go Will Hernandez,  I think a dark horse pick for them is Rudolph, I've in a few places seen they like him

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/day-2-nfl-mock-draft-patriots-take-a-qb-cowboys-find-a-wr-and-every-pick-for-rounds-2-and-3/?ftag=SPM-16-10abi8e 

[German_skin]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

CBS, 2nd round draft, if this happens I'd be doing cartwheels.  Only thing I hate about it is they state what to me is the obvious, Giants go Will Hernandez,  I think a dark horse pick for them is Rudolph, I've in a few places they like him

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/day-2-nfl-mock-draft-patriots-take-a-qb-cowboys-find-a-wr-and-every-pick-for-rounds-2-and-3/?ftag=SPM-16-10abi8e 

Ohhhhh this would be too good to be true.. Not sure if he will fall this far. Maybe we just sit there and hope for either Guice or Chubb to fall into our lap. I wouldn't mind being aggressive and trading up to get Guice or Hernandez

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's really an odd question to me and somewhat condescending sounding, too.   Was it a surprise that they had a pick in first round and they took a player?  Big move? 

 

 

Another condescending question that isn't about a debate but getting a dig in.  You got your dig in. Nice job. 

 

 I'll debate people who are actually discussing the actual player -- all in fun.  That would not include your post. 

 

You're right that the way I asked was condescending. I do wonder about your measurement for "big move" though. We had the discussion in the FA thread about grades for the offseason, about their "plan". I think I rememeber you saying you'd give them a D, but with Hankins it'd be a B (somewhere in that realm). My opinion has been that we've been good at winning the offseason most of last decade, so I've been happy with not winning them lately. So I'm wondering how you will evaluate this offseason now, particularly since we addressed what has been a need on this team for a while and something that you were saying in the FA thread that needed to be addressed. This is not a Hankins signing, but it is new information so does it at all improve your evaluation of the offseason?

 

Or are you seeing it in the light of possibilities, like we could have had Hankins and James or (other NT) and James or some other combination of possibilities. The 11-5 record was because the quote among most naysayers (not saying you here) is that its been soooooooo long since we won 11 games, so if we are able to get that monkey off our back this year will it change your evaluation? Will our ranking in run defense change it? Or are there any results that could change your opinion on this offseason, and with the pick of Payne, the pick?

 

If Payne shows the athletic presence that many say he has, collapsing the pockets, playing 3 downs, maybe getting sacks, maybe just being a part of a good rotation with Matt I, Allen and McGee that keeps Kerrigan, Smith, Lanier and Anderson clean on the pass rush.

 

I'm really wondering how set you are in your evaluations.

[desertbeagle85]

So we've got one pick tonight.

 

Fantastic ?

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Would our 4th (106) and 5th (142) get us into the mid 3rd round?

[desertbeagle85]

2 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Would our 4th (106) and 5th (142) get us into the mid 3rd round?

 

Would be better if we could trade back and pickup a 3rd

[bakedtater1]

8 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said:

So we've got one pick tonight.

 

Fantastic ?

I thought the second third and fourth round was tonight?

[Dissident2]

Really disappointed that I won't be able to start referring to Vita Vea as "Vita Vea Vegamin." 

 

Apologies if you're too young to get that reference.

 

[Bobby Peppers]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No such thing of course as a slam dunk pick or its very rare.   Both Tandler and Cooley were around Redskins Park and talked to some of the people there -- both seem to suggest that they don't think he was tops on their board -- not even now.  Jay in his own comments sounded a bit wishy washy as to Payne being tops on the board -- some comments allude to yes, some no.  So I think there is a least a chance that this argument really is do you draft for need or BPA?  That's the core of my issue at least.

 

For those like Steve McQueen who are selling the pick after selling it on the draft board for quite some time -- I get it, they are consistent and it makes sense to sell it here, too.   But likewise those who liked James and or Edmunds distinctly over Payne are being consistent, too. And its all a guessing game.  So I don't think anyone can seriously say with slam dunk assurance that they are right about any player in the draft.  It's hard enough for the professionals to get it right.

 

I don't think where a player was taken is vindication one way or another unless its something really egregious. Otherwise playing off of the same point, we should challenge the accepted premise here that Allen was a steal last year.  If SD likewise sees Derwin as a surprise steal than that's valid in concept until the season starts and then will see.

 

As for Payne, there are four things I like about the pick

A. Tomsula might be able to coach him into being really good

B. I like finally addressing nose

C. i am not going to lose sleep over Hankins anymore

D. If need drives this draft it opens things up for running back - maybe in the 2nd round. 

 

 

My favorite aspect is that he's just 20 years old and can be molded. Also with Allen and Anderson on the team, we'd be fools for not thinking the organization sought their perspective.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

There was a lot of smoke around Payne before the draft so that didn't end up being a smokescreen.  The only smoke screen was that they liked D. James better -- and some still think they do even after this pick.  But who knows.   

 

Of the 2nd round guys, the most smoke I can think of is:

Guice, Ronald Jones, Josh Jackson.  Some on Crosby (though I think 44 is rich for him) and Anthony Miller

 

It's ironic, I telegraphed BEFORE it went down my worst case scenario at QB which was to trade a pick for a veteran.  That's exactly what they did.  I laid out BEFORE the draft my worst case scenario for the draft would be Payne taken right at 13 -- I could live with Payne in a trade down.  They did that, too.  Heck last fall my top worry was Barkley would go to the Giants.  That happened, too. So I got some reverse karma cooking. 

 

I am going to play Costanza for the rest of the off season. I am going with the opposite to see if my luck changes.  So here goes

 

Don't trade up for Guice or Hernandez!

If you see Anthony Miller or Christian Kirk at 44 -- run far far away!

If Chubb somehow falls to 44 don't take him

No Harold Landry or L. Carter the pass rush is just fine!

 

I agree with most of this. Although I would be OK with Chubb at 44. I would prefer Jones if he is there as well. But Chubb will give them the thumper they are looking for. 

[nonniey]

9 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I agree with most of this. Although I would be OK with Chubb at 44. I would prefer Jones if he is there as well. But Chubb will give them the thumper they are looking for. 

I think his post went over your head.

[Est.1974]

Interesting story that a team tried to trade for Penny from the Seahawks AFTER they had picked him. Also reported that the Browns loved him and would have taken him atop of the second. Can probably link those two together.

 

Wonder if they go RB early day 2.

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, nonniey said:

I think his post went over your head.

 

Ha. Just reread it!! This hangover is killing me today

[bakedtater1]

So I figured because everyone is here today, glad to see Whitten retiring..

[nonniey]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Interesting story that a team tried to trade for Penny from the Seahawks AFTER they had picked him. Also reported that the Browns loved him and would have taken him atop of the second. Can probably link those two together.

 

Wonder if they go RB early day 2.

It might just be a story given how just about everyone eviscerated the Seahawks selection (ie trying to save face  - Redskins have done that from time to time too). 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

We have the 12th pick in the 2nd round. A ton of really good looking prospects. If we do trade back, I hope we dont trade out of the 2nd entirely. Id rather have a 2nd vs a 3rd and 4th. 

 

DE Landry

G Hernandez

CB Jackson, Oliver

C James

DT Hurst 

 

^^ If any of these guys are available, id take them and not move back. 

 

But man, seems like 2-3 rounds are really good this year. 

 

WR Kirk, Chark, Miller, Washington

TE Goedert, Gesicki

RB Guice, Chubb, Jones, Johnson

OL Williams, Brown

S Reid, Harrison

DT Phillips

 

Thats 21 guys right there. Im sure there are edge rushers, cb and other players who should be listed as well. 

 

So jealous of teams like the Browns, Colts Bucs. 

 

Sutton was mocked in the top 10-15 not all that long ago. MLB may not be a glaring need, but Jefferson is an incredible talent that could thrive behind our new DL. Daniels film against Wisconsin is one of the more impressive run blocking performances Ive seen, it looks like a HUDL highlight for a 5 star HS kid, he just obliterated Wisconsins front.

 

Lots to like.