Wildbunny Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 hours ago, skinzplay said: You acquire quality depth behind your starters. If you don't, you're not doing your job. Is Jay signing free agents? I'm fine discussing Jay regarding HC job. But let's not mistaken him with FO duty. That's a whole different matter. Guy has to coach what he was given for sure. But that's all he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Great, injuries once again give this guy an excuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 6 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said: Even if the Skins makes the playoffs, Gruden needs to go. Here's the potential competition for head coach in the offseason: Dallas, New York Jets, Baltimore, Cleveland , Tampa Bay, Denver Cleveland, NY Jets and Baltimore are better opportunities than us. These teams may consider a change: Miami, New York Giants, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Jacksonville, Arizona All but Miami are better options than us. This is why Jay should have been gone earlier. You promote McVay or bring in a new guy, but now the candidates are slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, dyst said: Great, injuries once again give this guy an excuse Well it is just about time for us to bring in the over-the-hill coach fueled by Crown Royal and an embarrassing prime time loss. Jeff Fisher? Hue Jackson? Bruce Arians? Chuck Pagano? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Wildbunny said: Is Jay signing free agents? I'm fine discussing Jay regarding HC job. But let's not mistaken him with FO duty. That's a whole different matter. Guy has to coach what he was given for sure. But that's all he can do. We don't need to go into the Bill Parcells grocery analogy here, but suffice it to say that Gruden has significant input in who this team drafts and who it signs in free agency. Ask Chris Cooley. Gruden explained quite well in the spring how he, the coaches, and the FO together approach player acquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, skinzplay said: We don't need to go into the Bill Parcells grocery analogy here, but suffice it to say that Gruden has significant imput in who this team drafts and who it signs in free agency. Ask Chris Cooley. Gruden explained quite well in the spring how he, the coaches, and the FO together approach player acquisition. Chris Russell who seems to be the ultimate insider these days as to the FO -- broke the Scot story, Doug's job, D coordinator interviews on and on -- said Jay and Bruce had some serious tension this off season because of Jay's unhappiness with their FA approach. We've heard (even from D. Jax himself) that Jay wanted D. Jax back an off season ago, that didn't happen. And Doug in his jocular aw shucks way has revealed that Jay can disagree with their draft picks but gets overruled. I think the thing that might cause some confusion is Jay does get his hands dirty in giving his own evaluation of players. But he's clearly not the final say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, skinzplay said: We don't need to go into the Bill Parcells grocery analogy here, but suffice it to say that Gruden has significant input in who this team drafts and who it signs in free agency. Ask Chris Cooley. Gruden explained quite well in the spring how he, the coaches, and the FO together approach player acquisition. Having input and having final say is not the same thing. And just because you get 80% of what you want, if you don't get the few key pieces then the rest do not matter. Make no mistake, Bruce makes the final call - he has made that painfully obvious. It's the problem many of us have with the structure. He does own some of it - but not as much as some are giving him. It's certainly not equal when you have a guy like BA making final decisions. In fact, Jay and the coaches have done a good job developing the young guys for the most part. People gloss over that during a bad loss. I have my problems with Jay - uninspired play calling some times (although it's still execution to a certain extent), not being able to get guys up for a game, little to no adjustments are a few. But he has developed players that he has been given. I could give you a list but everyone knows them. Is he perfect? No. But he is hamstrung by the FO. We don't really know his full capability. For me, I said after NO that it would take 10-6 and playoff win for me to continue to support Jay. I stand by that. I don't care about injuries at this point. If they are not prepared for them by now, then it's on to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 minute ago, goskins10 said: For me, I said after NO that it would take 10-6 and playoff win for me to continue to support Jay. I stand by that. I don't care about injuries at this point. If they are not prepared for them by now, then it's on to someone else. No argument from me, Hoss. This is pretty much my sentiment too. And I do like how Tomsula and Gray are developing the guys on their side of the ball; it's outstanding. What @Skinsinparadise noted above is pretty consistent with what you've said, too. I think Allen has been effectively neutralized when it comes to player personnel now; we'll see how things work out with Gruden. I think it's time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 6 hours ago, skinzplay said: I'm with you here. And I'll go back to Brewer's quote from his post-Falcons game column: "A regression of strengths is more likely than a substantial improvement of weaknesses". That's a stinging indictment of this coach and his approach. Escort him to the door. I don't want to hear anything about injuries. Teams suffer that every season. As you pointed out the Eagles lost their franchise quarterback, and suffered other significant losses-by-injury and still won the big one. You acquire quality depth behind your starters. If you don't, you're not doing your job. Yep....For the Eagles it was all about play calling and putting guys in position to make plays. Doug Peterson was on fire with his play calling all of last season and we haven't seen this from Jay in a long time. Injuries are killers, especially to the offensive line, but Jay needs to find a way to overcome them. Here's hoping he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Great coaches adjust their scheme to fit their players. Unfortunately, nothing in Jay's past has shown me that he is willing or capable of such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 I kind of want Gruden gone but i kind of don't, I'm 50/50, anyone else ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Monk Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: I kind of want Gruden gone but i kind of don't, I'm 50/50, anyone else ? I find it very liberating that regardless of what I may want, I know that not one thing I say, do, or think will alter anything that happens. It's like going to a movie, maybe. You're there. You're watching. You can gripe, cry, cheer, etc... whatever floats it. Doesn't matter. The movie keeps on a going, so long as you choose to stay to watch. And in the end, you step out into the real world... and not one real thing has actually changed in your real life. ( and if it did? uh oh... ) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeJacobyHOForRIOT Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said: I find it very liberating that regardless of what I may want, I know that not one thing I say, do, or think will alter anything that happens. It's like going to a movie, maybe. You're there. You're watching. You can gripe, cry, cheer, etc... whatever floats it. Doesn't matter. The movie keeps on a going, so long as you choose to stay to watch. And in the end, you step out into the real world... and not one real thing has actually changed in your real life. ( and if it did? uh oh... ) ? So what you are telling me is the ES boards do not decide Jon Grudens fate as head coach ?! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangman- C_Hanburger Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 25 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: So what you are telling me is the ES boards do not decide Jon Grudens fate as head coach ?! ? More like reading a divorce forum with all the baggage than having any informative value (except for the few knowledge contributors who don't get into the KC B-Fest stuff). You have to wade through allot of crap though to find them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 4 hours ago, skinzplay said: We don't need to go into the Bill Parcells grocery analogy here, but suffice it to say that Gruden has significant input in who this team drafts and who it signs in free agency. Ask Chris Cooley. Gruden explained quite well in the spring how he, the coaches, and the FO together approach player acquisition. I'm not gonna reharsh what @goskins10 and @Skinsinparadise said. But Jay, like Doug Williams, had no clue about the Alex Smith trade. So I think that s a huge problem when your Hc doesn't even have an input on the QB position (especially an offensive minded coach). Problem I do have with Jay, somehow, in this department, is that eventually, he knows FO crapped the bed, they stabbed him in the back, or whatever, and still comes out in presser and backs them up. Thus he became the scapegoat and everyone behind this is fine. Don't answer, punt away, whatever, but I would prefer to hear him not backs them up. A "We'll see" kind of answer would have helped his stock in the beginning when discussins AS than trying to defend the move they made. 4 hours ago, skinzplay said: No argument from me, Hoss. This is pretty much my sentiment too. And I do like how Tomsula and Gray are developing the guys on their side of the ball; it's outstanding. What @Skinsinparadise noted above is pretty consistent with what you've said, too. I think Allen has been effectively neutralized when it comes to player personnel now; we'll see how things work out with Gruden. I think it's time to move on. Tomsula and Gray are doing a great job, that's undeiable for sure, and that is good to see. And as a whole we still do have a good coaching staff in place so everything's not lost. Though it'll be tough. 3 hours ago, kingdaddy said: Yep....For the Eagles it was all about play calling and putting guys in position to make plays. Doug Peterson was on fire with his play calling all of last season and we haven't seen this from Jay in a long time. Injuries are killers, especially to the offensive line, but Jay needs to find a way to overcome them. Here's hoping he can. I read that argument about Eagles last year, Vikings, or Falcons... But none of them had to deal with it on the same game halfway through the season. Basically Callahan and Rauscher have to start back to day 1 of Training Camp and teach the whole line again. And they have to do it in 4 days. You can deal with an injury during Training Camp, another one in the early weeks of the season and another one late. Here it's al at the same time... Including an All Pro guy, leaving us with a 2nd year Center as our most experienced guy on the interior. 3 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said: Great coaches adjust their scheme to fit their players. Unfortunately, nothing in Jay's past has shown me that he is willing or capable of such a thing. Remember our last playoff run? We were plugging guys on and on on this team every week as injuries were piling on on D. At some point we were down to our 6th or 7th choice in our backfield and we signed a guy 2/3 days prior to playing ARod and GB in the playoffs. And guy was supposed to play a lot. Scot was feeding Jay with serviceable guys and Gruden and his staff coached them up for weeks. So we've been dealing that kind of situation. We just have to do it again, except it's not Scot feeding us now. Since Bruce seems to have backed up from personel duty, I am eager to see what Williams, SChaeffer and Smith can feed Jay with. I'm interestingly watching what we'll have in Bowanko, Cooper and Howard next sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, Wildbunny said: Remember our last playoff run? We were plugging guys on and on on this team every week as injuries were piling on on D. At some point we were down to our 6th or 7th choice in our backfield and we signed a guy 2/3 days prior to playing ARod and GB in the playoffs. And guy was supposed to play a lot. Scot was feeding Jay with serviceable guys and Gruden and his staff coached them up for weeks. So we've been dealing that kind of situation. We just have to do it again, except it's not Scot feeding us now. Since Bruce seems to have backed up from personel duty, I am eager to see what Williams, SChaeffer and Smith can feed Jay with. I'm interestingly watching what we'll have in Bowanko, Cooper and Howard next sunday. I may be wrong, but I think these injuries will require a whole-sale change in the game plan. Not just plugging servicable guys in to the holes and rolling with the same plan of attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said: I may be wrong, but I think these injuries will require a whole-sale change in the game plan. Not just plugging servicable guys in to the holes and rolling with the same plan of attack. Never said it would be easy in any way. Just that we've been doing at least once. Twice... Thrice... Why not a fourth time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 hour ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said: So what you are telling me is the ES boards do not decide Jon Grudens fate as head coach ?! ? That would be really odd for us to have any opinion on Jon Gruden, much less any input.... ? Sorry, not playing spelling police. Goodness knows I am all over the place. But this was different. Totally meant as a joke. Could not resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 We have another thread on the board discussing how we can get out of the Alex Smith contract, yet I think there is more chance of Gruden going out of the door first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MediocreGymnast Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 6 hours ago, dyst said: This is why Jay should have been gone earlier. You promote McVay or bring in a new guy, but now the candidates are slim. Nah man, promote Jay to GM and then they should have promoted McVay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: We have another thread on the board discussing how we can get out of the Alex Smith contract, yet I think there is more chance of Gruden going out of the door first. Absolutely. Unless they get deep into the POs this year, Jay is likely gone - Bruce with him I hope. But Alex and his contract are not going anywhere for a few years at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: We have another thread on the board discussing how we can get out of the Alex Smith contract, yet I think there is more chance of Gruden going out of the door first. Considering Jay has a contract that doesn’t count against the cap and the final 2 years equate to not even one year of Alex’s contract that does count against the cap, that’s a rather safe assumption. Where it gets murky is saddling a new head coach with 2 more years of Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 On top of my head from his weekly presser... It's a shame that after being our HC for so long Jay still has to "check the tape". Doesn't anyone told him about Blu-Rays, DVDs, or even getting digital copy of game footage? Don't we have that at Redskins Park? Pityful... @SWFLSkins maybe you can tweet one our local reporter to ask that question to Jay on his next presser? (One that Tandler would have loved to ask I bet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 It could be that our Redskins and the cowpats could both be after new HC's at seasons end. Let's say Mcdaniels(pats) is wanted by both were does he go?. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Hate to say it but I'm not sure we find a better replacement. What offensive minded coach would come to a team that severely lacks offensive talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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