Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

[Burgold]

I don't know that it's fair to pick on Jay for this game, but why is his team always thrashed in National games? More, why the heck can't this team ever run a hurry up!!!

 

For those who said Alex was holding back the 'skins I guess this game allows both sides to argue its case. I can't tell if offenses have figured Manusky out or if our defense is playing okay.

 

Our inability to finish some play are killing us. Tackle the ball carrier. Sack the damn qb. Don't stand around and wait for the db to tackle him. We lost one touchdown because a Cooper broke a tackle and the other two guys were caught flat footed having assumed the play was over.

[TradeTheBeal!]

His in game flow is absolutely terrible.  Once you focus in on Jay while watching the game, it’s like having a toothache.

 

Brutal.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Atlanta figures out how to run the ball against us and somce then we haven’t been able to adjust to what teams are doing to us.  That’s on coaching.

 

The LBs are just not filling where they are supposed to be,  

 

The offense has Gruden’s awful, hideous play calling like an anchor around it. Run the ball on 85% of first downs for an average of like 2.8 yards. A trend that goes back to 2014.

 

Gruden needs fired.  It’s been long enough and his system loses big games.  

 

 

[celticsalmon]

Gruden coaches as if he is playing Madden with a beer and a bag of chips

[TradeTheBeal!]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Atlanta figures out how to run the ball against us and somce then we haven’t been able to adjust to what teams are doing to us.  That’s on coaching.

 

The LBs are just not filling where they are supposed to be,  

 

The offense has Gruden’s awful, hideous play calling like an anchor around it. Run the ball on 85% of first downs for an average of like 2.8 yards. A trend that goes back to 2014.

 

Gruden needs fired.  It’s been long enough and his system loses big games.  

 

 

 

46 pass plays called.

15 runs called.

 

Thats tough,

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

Stick a fork in him. I'm ready for a change...this is BS. 1st he gets Alex hurt, then he can't get or motivate his receivers to get separation...THAT and his teams are ALWAYS HURT....the season is longer than 8 games....

 

I won't object if he's fired..it's not working. BUT get rid of Bruce too..I imagine the stadium is going to get even emptier.

 

To all those who called for his firing ...*I* apologize for arguing against it. I don't know WHO you'd replace him with that would want to come here...but at this point..I don't care. The dude can't coach a simple sideline route. HAHA on the touchdown is an embarrassment....so much for 36 and 20....Pshhhhht

 

 

[ncr2h]

I actually like Gruden and think he's been a decent coach for us. But that's kind of the problem - he's been just decent.

 

Here is a list of the all-time winningest coaches in NFL history: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/

 

One trend I noticed is that almost all of them had an 11+ win season within their first 4 seasons as HC. Some of them (Belichick, Parcells) took longer than others (Gibbs, Reid, numerous others), but by year 4 it seems like every great coach has found his groove and separated himself from the pack.

 

Gruden seems like a great guy, but I hope our organization doesn't keep giving him a longer leash. He's brought our franchise up from the bottom of the barrel to mediocrity, and we should be grateful for that, but that may be our ceiling under him. New coaches come into this league all the time and are able to put up winning seasons relatively quickly (Zimmer, Quinn, Pederson, and McVay have all done it since Gruden was hired; Lynn in SD might join them).

 

We shouldn't keep throwing good money after bad, because history would tell you that Gruden is probably going to top out as a Jason Garrett level coach. If you give him enough years and enough talent, he can probably get you a few 11+ win seasons, but it's not something that's going to come with the regularity that a true top tier coach could do.

[NoVaSkins21]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The offense has Gruden’s awful, hideous play calling like an anchor around it. Run the ball on 85% of first downs for an average of like 2.8 yards. A trend that goes back to 2014.

 

 It’s been long enough and his system loses big games.  

 

 

I don't think he ever had a running game with the Bengals and he still doesn't have one now.  The guy is no offensive genius.  He mediocre at best and that's just good enough to coach the Skins.  He will never have his team ready for a big game.  That's his hallmark and trademark.  Can't wait for the blowout next week on MNF.

[Redskinscub]

After the game last week, he mentioned that the other team was going to make plays and also score on us. It was just the way football is. The way he coaches is that either you have it or you do not. No need for in game adjustments. He basically gives up in games. 

 

Seeing him on the sidelines, he appears to be a spectator. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Can anyone in here honestly say they think Gruden will right this ship and get us a win on MNF in Philly? 

 

 

 

 

 

*crickets*

 

yeah. I dont either. Not ONE bit. Go away Jay.  I hate you. 

[NoVaSkins21]

Gruden is here because he is one of Bruce's guys and he is Jon's brother  He doesn't have much football acumen.  The light may occasionally come on, but he's a dear in the headlights.  I don't think there's one guy in that locker room that will go to bat for him because he doesn't exude respect.

[ExoDus84]

It's time to move on. This guy is as mediocre as it gets. I'm sick of getting thrashed and embarrassed in every pivotal game. We lay an egg when we could wrap up the division. Again. We laid an egg on national TV... AGAIN. 

 

Watching his presser today was aggravating as ****. He looked like he didn't care. Just nonchalantly answering in coach speak. No fire, no anger, just a look of capitulation like he didn't give a ****. 

 

I'm done. Time to move on. Get rid of that ****ing buffoon Allen while they're at it. 

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Stick a fork in him. I'm ready for a change...this is BS. 1st he gets Alex hurt, then he can't get or motivate his receivers to get separation...THAT and his teams are ALWAYS HURT....the season is longer than 8 games....

 

I won't object if he's fired..it's not working. BUT get rid of Bruce too..I imagine the stadium is going to get even emptier.

 

To all those who called for his firing ...*I* apologize for arguing against it. I don't know WHO you'd replace him with that would want to come here...but at this point..I don't care. The dude can't coach a simple sideline route. HAHA on the touchdown is an embarrassment....so much for 36 and 20....Pshhhhht

 

 

For those of us who wants Gruden gone, we knew 2 years ago; he had a ceiling. 

 

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

He's Norv 2.0. Time to fire him and move on.

The karmic echo of Norvus Turner, the bane of our 90's misery.

[rabidskin]

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:02 AM, mojo said:

My opinion:

1: Discipline:  Jay teams have so many inopportune penalties, turnovers, and just bone headed plays, it’s maddening.

 

2: Opening game: Probably a product of my first gripe above and I don’t know it’s because he runs a lax camp or what it is but under Jay we come out of the gates looking like everybody on the team drank a bottle of tequila the night before.  Good coaches don’t let that happen (5 years in a row)

I for one, am not a Gruden fan. Another Dallas loss and poor preparation.  You're 2 points are correct and I also don't like his play calling and clock management skills.  The last 2 games, we had definite situations to run the ball considering our makeshift OL and his choice to throw that led to turnovers, game losses and even the QB receiving a season ending injury. Our new linemen run block better that pass protect...especially against Watt and Clowney's pass rush,  as evidenced by Peterson's 2 rushing TD's. To have a 10 point turn around against the Texans when you have 1st and goal right before the end of the 1st half, was sickening. Game would have been tied instead of being down by 10 points. Then you lose another 3 pts at least and the QB, while in FG range....that's 13pts. and we lose by 2.  Way too many games where his play calling cost us ballgames. McVay should have been elevated the end of last season as I was hoping for.  Instead, he takes the Rams from last to 1st in year 1 as the Rams Front Office recognizes talent. Since Snyder doesn't have a clue and keeps B Allen and the Mouth Norman and that ridiculous contract, I can only hope the seats keep emptying until he wakes up. Swearinger's comments after the Dallas game is his way to maybe get Norman to shut his mouth and the coaches to start preparing better.  Even he is frustrated with Norman's play and everyone coming to practice laughing and collecting their pay while they lose.  You could even see him yelling in frustration at Norman and giving him hand motions to move up on Cooper, which Norman then proceeds to give up another 3rd and long conversion for a 1st down.  Norman doesn't even have a clue that the "keyboard warriors" as he calls us, are booing him for his poor abilities and pathetic talent.  You have your shutdown CB's and then you have Norman that makes 1 good play for every 10 bad ones.  His Big Mouth is only matched by his ego and ridiculous salary....wish his play and talent were at least half as good. 

[FordBailey]

Gruden is what he is. He will never be a big winner.

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

His in game flow is absolutely terrible.

 

 

Totally agree. I always get the feeling it just doesn't come natural to him. I personally doesn't see that natural in game HC instincts. 

 

Should have gone for it on fourth down again before the big Copper TD. That was the pivotal moment to take the game back into our control.

[Napredskins1]

We need to move on from Gruden. I think this is as good as it’s going to get with him. The Bears had a short week with a new QB also and won. 

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, Napredskins1 said:

We need to move on from Gruden. I think this is as good as it’s going to get with him. The Bears had a short week with a new QB also and won. 

- Were facing the Lions

- Have Khalil Mack

 

Among others...

 

[Dancing Bear]

I believe it's time to get rid of the Tamp Bay Connection.

Enough said!

[Skinsinparadise]

I am definitely not in the Jay is the source of all evils camp.  😎  But like I said before the season and during the season, I'd let the season play out.  So for example instead of thinking they are going to lose in Philly why not see if we actually do lose in Philly.

 

The thing that I think is most interesting for me about this conversation is with all the head coach duds that are hired every year -- why are we so convinced another reboot with a new bee is the answer to all our prayers?

 

I'll start with if we are looking for a new hot shot offensive coordinator -- we are selling we got a 35 year old QB who might not even be able to play next year, coming off a down year and will swallow the cap for a couple of seasons more.  And then we got Colt McCoy.    We got an owner who could be a bit volatile let alone if Bruce is still here but lets presume Bruce is gone.   We have disgruntled fans who are hungry for blood who aren't showing up to a lackluster stadium.  Our facilities are known to be way behind most of the rest of the NFL.   And the weapons are among the most lacking in the NFL.

 

My point is for those obsessed with whomever the hot new ticket is, I'd think defensive coaches.  If I am on offensive coach, I don't see the attraction of strutting my stuff with this squad -- can you think of a more handcuffed offense moving forward than this team?  Heck FA looks lackluster for WR.  The draft is much more top heavy for defense.  On and on.  Wade Phillips supposedly didn't want the D coordinator job here before he took the one from the Rams citing the roster.  So not sure why an offensive coordinator wouldn't feel the same unless they aren't in much demand.  

 

I am not in the can Jay camp.  I think for his faults, he's managed things well here considering circumstances.  But I get the feeling of moving on if they don't make the playoffs this year.  I disagree that they'd easily find an improvement.  So many duds again get hired every year.  And to be a good head coach, its typically not about your strategy -X's and O's but your leadership skills-personality.

 

But if I played that game and tried to think like Dan.  Dan loves the narrative when it comes to a head coach because that's how he tried to sell hope.  I'd think he chases  DeFilippo and Bieniemy.  I've read enough about Defilippo where I doubt he'd take this job.  I think he'd reject it like Spags did years back.

 

Bieniemy has background with Andy Reid and goes way back with Peterson.  Am I advocating firing Jay and hiring some new coordinator and dreaming of prosperity?  Nope.  But in the spirit of entertainment and dreaming of hiring the next Lombardi, here is NFL Am talking about future HC prospects including Bieniemy.  None of these guys IMO will be a success unless the FO is overhauled and Dan stays out of their way. 

 

I think the best narrative of all would be Saban.  He's a defensive minded coach so he likely wouldn't be intimidated by the mess on offense.  Dan would be able to sell the whole Alabama connections -- they'd probably jazz it up more by drafting more Alabama guys that year.  They'd cite the Alabama winning mindset and how Jonathan Allen among others already cite in the locker room today.  I could see Dan falling in love with the narrative.  Saban supposedly was willing to leave college to coach the NY Giants recently.  Dan would likely have to give him a Jon Gruden type of salary not in terms of years but year to year considering how much Saban is being paid in Alabama and Dan in recent years has gotten cheap in what he's willing to pay so I'd wonder if that's a possibility on that front. 

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/25048/is-chiefs-eric-bieniemy-the-next-star-andy-reid-offensive-coordinator

 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

If we just judge Jay starting with his record in the division alone we can decide to move on and that's what I believe we need to do. If you can't beat a mediocre Dallas team in an awful NFC East then you don't deserve another year. He is now coaching for his NFL life in the next 5 games and will likely need to win 4 of them. 

[justice98]

He's never been blessed with a particularly strong team.  If he were underperforming, that'd be one thing, but .500 is about the roster he's been given every year.  

 

What year, based on the roster he was given, has this team underperformed under Gruden?

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

19 minutes ago, justice98 said:

He's never been blessed with a particularly strong team.  If he were underperforming, that'd be one thing, but .500 is about the roster he's been given every year.  

 

What year, based on the roster he was given, has this team underperformed under Gruden?

Sorry..but the injury bug alone is reason to move on. He doesn't play the preseason to avoid injury yet gets devastated each year. Something with the conditioning he promotes or doesn't expect...but I do cut him some slack for Doctson..we needed him to be a #1 receiver..what the hell happened to the vertical jump in the end zone!!??? instead relying on Reed.

 

I just think he's too soft and said that was his problem for years...he just doesn't DEMAND or instill excellence. He just too Andy Griffith.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Gruden needs fired.  It’s been long enough and his system loses big games.  

 

 

 

In your shoes, I wouldn't sweat so much about how Jay "is the problem" considering it seems pretty clear he's likely going to canned if they don't make the playoffs.  So the answer on that front is likely going to unfold one way or another, regardless.

 

If so, the question is IMO instead of assuming any replacement will be better -- clearly that's not the case as we know from following the NFL, plenty of teams follow up (especially longer tenured coaches) a firing with a worst hire who doesn't work out -- why would it be different this time?   And who would be those prospects?  Clearly, its not the best X and O guys = best head coaches.  That sometimes pans out and sometimes doesn't pan out that way.    And how would Dan approach it.  That's my 2 cents at this juncture in the season if I thought about Jay the same as you do. 

 

 

[SkinsGuy]

2 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

- Were facing the Lions

- Have Khalil Mack

 

Among others...

 

 

The way the Redskins played yesterday, they would've lost to Detroit as well.