Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

[Hazel-Ra]

I dunno. This clip was from last night and Skip wasn't in the the convo, I just like putting him on blast whenever possible.

[SkinsGuy]

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Speaking of, did they open Undisputed with Skins/Boys?  I turned it on just to see Shannon destroy Skip and see what excuses he came up with.  I tuned in 5 minutes in, they were on the Eagles and now Pats.

They must have talked about it in the first half hour, because they are moving on to basketball now.

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/10/22/nfl-week-7-texans-panthers-chiefs-nick-bosa-chargers-eric-reid-mmqb

 

Jay Gruden tipped the officials off to look for movement) on what would’ve been a 47-yard bid from Brett Maher. Pushed back five yards, Maher clanged the potential equalizer off the left upright to send Dallas home with a loss.

[@DCGoldPants]

Good on Gruden if he's the one who pointed it out to the Refs. Got to use all the tools you have.

 

That said, he's still not "the guy".

 

Keep watching the Chiefs. Eric Bieniemy is a Coordinator who is going to get a look next offseason. Don't get me wrong. Reid is the mastermind there. But Bieniemy has a history in that system, working with Alex Smith who excelled in it last year.

 

Just a guy to keep an eye on.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

They finally went over Skins/Boys on Undisputed.  It was rather predictable.  Skip going on and on about the snap, being cheated by the refs.  James Harrison was a guest and man he’s scary just staring at Skip like the dumbass he is.  Their faces were priceless when Skip proclaimed Dak was a B quarterback yesterday.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I’ll have more later but in essence, Gruden did 95% of things wrong in the final 6 minutes of the game and was bailed out by Dallas being stupid.  BTW, Garrett might be a worse coach than Gruden. 

 

The desire to try and make AP do things he hasn’t done is stupid. Run the guy down hill more and less of this shotgun run stuff.  Sure he can do it, but you have built in play action sets from under center, and we don’t use them near enough. Jay is such a slave to his genius system that he doesn’t adapt to take advantage of the players he has.  He’s the anti Bellichick in that regard.  

 

The defense played lights out and rhe and the offense was stuck in the mud the entire game. 

 

Smith is still not comfortable.

 

Gruden gets credit for the opening drive. 

 

This team should be better.  I’ll take 4-2, and you are what your record says you are.  

 

But if Gruden continues to be a pansy in late game situations, he’s going to get burned.  I don’t understand how the same thing can happen to him over and over and he hasn’t adjusted.  

 

Dallas bailed his ass out yesterday because it was trending towards an epic debacle, which could have cost him his job, until they flinched and then missed the kick....

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

But if Gruden continues to be a pansy in late game situations, he’s going to get burned.  I don’t understand how the same thing can happen to him over and over and he hasn’t adjusted.  

 

Dallas bailed his ass out yesterday because it was trending towards an epic debacle, which could have cost him his job, until they flinched and then missed the kick....

 

So if he’s an anti-pansy and Smith throws incomplete and stops the clock, gets sacked and loses yards, or worse turns it over, wouldn’t that burn him too?  

 

When coaches believe in their teams, and they always have a better gauge at that than we do, they are less pansy-like.  Jay has shown that before.

 

As for the kick, it became a 52 yarder due to Jay politicking.  That’s a positive as it’s been one of my cons on him for a long time.  Not enough in game politicking and losing of his mind on the refs.

[SkinsNoles21]

23 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Good on Gruden if he's the one who pointed it out to the Refs. Got to use all the tools you have.

 

That said, he's still not "the guy".

 

Keep watching the Chiefs. Eric Bieniemy is a Coordinator who is going to get a look next offseason. Don't get me wrong. Reid is the mastermind there. But Bieniemy has a history in that system, working with Alex Smith who excelled in it last year.

 

Just a guy to keep an eye on.

 

Skins are on their way to a successful season. Gruden will not be canned if/when the Redskins win the division or make the postseason. 

 

Seems this fanbase needs to establish a winners mentality as well.

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

So if he’s an anti-pansy and Smith throws incomplete and stops the clock, gets sacked and loses yards, or worse turns it over, wouldn’t that burn him too?  

 

When coaches believe in their teams, and they always have a better gauge at that than we do, they are less pansy-like.  Jay has shown that before.

 

As for the kick, it became a 52 yarder due to Jay politicking.  That’s a positive as it’s been one of my cons on him for a long time.  Not enough in game politicking and losing of his mind on the refs.

 

 

I wonder if Eagles fans are ripping Doug Pederson today for being a pansy after they tanked a 17 point lead in the fourth quarter. 

 

Some fans really need to get a better grasp of the NFL. 

[NoCalMike]

2018 could end up another "Well, someone has to win the division" types of seasons.  Don't let that cloud your judgement of Jay Gruden the way it did in 2015. 

[@DCGoldPants]

57 minutes ago, SkinsNoles21 said:

 

Skins are on their way to a successful season. Gruden will not be canned if/when the Redskins win the division or make the postseason. 

 

Seems this fanbase needs to establish a winners mentality as well.

 

 

I wonder if Eagles fans are ripping Doug Pederson today for being a pansy after they tanked a 17 point lead in the fourth quarter. 

 

Some fans really need to get a better grasp of the NFL. 

 

You are right. A winning season won't likely mean a coaching change. But how the season ends COULD. 1st round blowout at home for example.

 

Yeah, Eagle fans are ripping the hell out of Pederson today. 

 

Having a "grasp" like what you're suggesting is how teams end up with Jeff Fisher or Jason Garett forever. 

[Alexa]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/10/22/nfl-week-7-texans-panthers-chiefs-nick-bosa-chargers-eric-reid-mmqb

 

Jay Gruden tipped the officials off to look for movement) on what would’ve been a 47-yard bid from Brett Maher. Pushed back five yards, Maher clanged the potential equalizer off the left upright to send Dallas home with a loss.

Good for  Gruden but it should not have come down to that. 

[SkinsNoles21]

22 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

You are right. A winning season won't likely mean a coaching change. But how the season ends COULD. 1st round blowout at home for example.

 

Yeah, Eagle fans are ripping the hell out of Pederson today. 

 

Having a "grasp" like what you're suggesting is how teams end up with Jeff Fisher or Jason Garett forever. 

 

 

Pretty sure ****ing in a message board has never gotten a coach hired or fired. 

[@DCGoldPants]

10 minutes ago, SkinsNoles21 said:

 

 

Pretty sure ****ing in a message board has never gotten a coach hired or fired. 

 

No idea what you're referring to there. I'm pretty sure a message board has never performed open heart surgery either. But, doesn't mean there aren't boards out there where people discuss their ideas.

 

This message board created the Skins Fan Card which got media coverage and wasn't around long before Vinny was dumped. Did the board get Vinny fired? No. But an image from the board was downloaded, and emailed around, printed out, and mailed in. Besides fans simply not showing up to games. Not much you can do. 

[SkinsNoles21]

6 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

No idea what you're referring to there. I'm pretty sure a message board has never performed open heart surgery either. But, doesn't mean there aren't boards out there where people discuss their ideas.

 

This message board created the Skins Fan Card which got media coverage and wasn't around long before Vinny was dumped. Did the board get Vinny fired? No. But an image from the board was downloaded, and emailed around, printed out, and mailed in. Besides fans simply not showing up to games. Not much you can do. 

 

We're 4-2 and in first place. 

 

Just wanted to reiterate that after reading your post.

[@DCGoldPants]

4 minutes ago, SkinsNoles21 said:

 

We're 4-2 and in first place. 

 

Just wanted to reiterate that after reading your post.

 

Thanks. 

[ixcuincle]

He's okay I just wish we would be more aggressive in the 2nd half 

[Warhead36]

I don't even mind running the ball on that last offensive possession, but do something more creative then just stacking the line and running into a brick wall. Why not spread them out with 3 wide? Or maybe a RPO with Bibbs? The best play on first down would have been PA bootleg. Either Smith throws or he runs himself and of course stay in bounds! Then ideally you get something like 2nd and 5 ish, then you can call a safe handoff to AP which hopefully picks up 2-3. Then you get 3rd and short and the entire playbook is open. If Dallas then stonewalls us then so be it but we basically gave that last possession away doing absolutely nothing.

[skinny21]

I’m torn on the frequent use of shotgun.  On one hand, Smith needs all the help he can get, and starting back gives him a chance to see the field better, and buys the extra second without interior pressure in his face.  On the other hand, if AP is your bread and butter, you’d think they would cater to him rather than Smith.  

 

Personally, I’d probably compromise and run out of the pistol more often.  

 

@Warhead36I’d have looked at a first down screen pass or (as some one else mentioned) a bootleg that he can keep if necessary.  I do agree that they could have been more creative running though.  

[skins4eva]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’ll have more later but in essence, Gruden did 95% of things wrong in the final 6 minutes of the game and was bailed out by Dallas being stupid.  BTW, Garrett might be a worse coach than Gruden. 

 

The desire to try and make AP do things he hasn’t done is stupid. Run the guy down hill more and less of this shotgun run stuff.  Sure he can do it, but you have built in play action sets from under center, and we don’t use them near enough. Jay is such a slave to his genius system that he doesn’t adapt to take advantage of the players he has.  He’s the anti Bellichick in that regard.  

 

The defense played lights out and rhe and the offense was stuck in the mud the entire game. 

 

Smith is still not comfortable.

 

Gruden gets credit for the opening drive. 

 

This team should be better.  I’ll take 4-2, and you are what your record says you are.  

 

But if Gruden continues to be a pansy in late game situations, he’s going to get burned.  I don’t understand how the same thing can happen to him over and over and he hasn’t adjusted.  

 

Dallas bailed his ass out yesterday because it was trending towards an epic debacle, which could have cost him his job, until they flinched and then missed the kick....

 

I agree that the coaching is highly suspect and gets uber conservative at exactly the wrong time.  This is a game that shouldn't have been close.  Smith played pretty terribly but for a few key third down conversions.  Our secondary can make some inexplicably awful mistakes at critical moments.  But more than that, when we got the ball back after the TD by Dallas at the end, we should have run bootleg play action on that first play.  Pick up a first down or have Smith scramble for a decent first down gain.  That was just an awful sequence and shows you Gruden's continued inability to think on his feet.  The most staggering stat to me, and it is fully indicative of his mediocre/sub-par coaching, is the fact that we have scored a third quarter TD in 11 games.  That's just a stat you don't see with good coaches. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't even mind running the ball on that last offensive possession, but do something more creative then just stacking the line and running into a brick wall. Why not spread them out with 3 wide? Or maybe a RPO with Bibbs? The best play on first down would have been PA bootleg. Either Smith throws or he runs himself and of course stay in bounds! Then ideally you get something like 2nd and 5 ish, then you can call a safe handoff to AP which hopefully picks up 2-3. Then you get 3rd and short and the entire playbook is open. If Dallas then stonewalls us then so be it but we basically gave that last possession away doing absolutely nothing.

I’m going to find a video of a game ender from the colts in the mid 200’s.  I just wish I could remember the exact game. They ran like the last 7 minutes off the clock and forced whoever it was to burn all their TO’s, ended up kneeling at like the opponents 10 yard line to end the game.

 

Nothing was fancy, it was all basic stuff but they mixed safe passes with runs and so the defense couldn’t stack the box so everything was easier.  And creative.  I think they picked up Luke 4 or 5 first downs and ran out the clock.

 

I keep asking why other teams can’t grasp that concept?  Rollouts are great.  Run/pass options are great.  Safe throws in quick game are great. 

 

Just mix it up a little bit and everything is so much easier. 

3 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I’m torn on the frequent use of shotgun.  On one hand, Smith needs all the help he can get, and starting back gives him a chance to see the field better, and buys the extra second without interior pressure in his face.  On the other hand, if AP is your bread and butter, you’d think they would cater to him rather than Smith.  

 

Personally, I’d probably compromise and run out of the pistol more often.  

 

@Warhead36I’d have looked at a screen pass or (as some one else mentioned) a bootleg that he can keep if necessary.  I do agree that they could have been more creative running though.  

Smith can execute a 3-5-7 step drop just fine.  Being under center makes it easier for the runner, and allows you to tune up routes with QB footwork.

 

Shotgun is good to help the QB get a little more time to throw.

 

Using both is important.  Knowing when to use both is also important. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Gruden has to playcall wayyyy better. Gotta somehow make 2nd half adjustments. 

 

However i do love seeing that he tipped the refs off about the cowboys illegal movement of the football. It definitely helped us get the win

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

So if he’s an anti-pansy and Smith throws incomplete and stops the clock, gets sacked and loses yards, or worse turns it over, wouldn’t that burn him too?  

 

When coaches believe in their teams, and they always have a better gauge at that than we do, they are less pansy-like.  Jay has shown that before.

 

As for the kick, it became a 52 yarder due to Jay politicking.  That’s a positive as it’s been one of my cons on him for a long time.  Not enough in game politicking and losing of his mind on the refs.

You know, I would forgive him for being "aggressive" if he was smart about it and it failed.  For example, that missed TD to Sprnikle was a really good call, and Alex bolluxed it up.  If he calls a play which works and Alex can't hit the ocean from a boat, that's a different problem, and I wouldn't hold it against him.

 

There are just so many different ways to attack the defense in that situation when they KNOW you're going to try and run to kill the clock, or at least make them use their TOs.  Some type of a rollout, run/pass option, something extremely safe that removes the advantage the defense has because they know what you're going to try and do.  CAVEAT: If you have the Hogs and John Riggins, you can tell the defense the play (like Grimm famously did in the 1982 championship game) and still run it, and it will work out just fine.  But we don't have that.  AP might be close, but the OL is not in the same hemisphere.  And the coach needs to understand that. 

 

You know what they could have done, which would have been an interesting wrinkle?  They could have come out in a tight 3 TE set, and then motioned VD and Reed out to one side outside the numbers.  If Dallas doesn't respect VD and Reed, you have a quick hitter and the benefit of a possible blocker to pick up a few yards.  If they do shift to cover them, you've pulled 2 or 3 defenders out of the box, which makes the numbers game a little easier. 

 

What's maddening is that you come out on first down in a tight formation, they KNOW you're going to try a power run up the middle, and it's like running into a brick wall.

 

Another option if you are REALLY feeling bold: you can do a quick little PA off of that tight set, and you probably have 1:1 with Reed and VD, and Alex really should be able to complete a 5 yard out to one of those guys.  The defense is going to bite HARD on the run fake, because everybody knows that's Gruden's tendency, so you should have really favorable matchups. 

 

I'm not suggesting you go 4 verts and try a deep shot to Doctson or something, just try to do something which the defense is not completely expecting.  It's really not that hard.  And it could even be a run. 

 

Gruden is just so risk averse, he calls the same sequence of crappy plays in that situation every time, and always with the same 3-out result.  I'm just asking for him to not be so afraid to do something which might be a 4 on the risk scale of 1-10 vs. a 2. 

 

I don't think I'm asking that much, to be honest. 

1 hour ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Gruden has to playcall wayyyy better. Gotta somehow make 2nd half adjustments. 

 

However i do love seeing that he tipped the refs off about the cowboys illegal movement of the football. It definitely helped us get the win

11 games in a row without a 3rd quarter TD.

 

I wonder if we can run that to a full 16 and a virtual season. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

11 games in a row without a 3rd quarter TD.

 

I wonder if we can run that to a full 16 and a virtual season. 

? yeah i have no doubt that could happen. Just another thing to add to the list of reasons why Gruden sucks. 

[Rex Tomb]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

What's maddening is that you come out on first down in a tight formation, they KNOW you're going to try a power run up the middle, and it's like running into a brick wall.

Count me in on the Ditch Gruden train.  Yeah, we won and put two victories back to back, but the play calling by Gruden in that last series was absolutely pathetic.  Everyone in the building knew it was going to be run, run, pass.  I was hoping for a screen pass or something to catch the defense off guard, but nope.  50 gut with AP.  Then the next play - same thing, same result. Then a pass on 3rd and long when there's absolutely no surprise that it's going to be a pass.  Gutless play calling.

[MisterPinstripe]

https://twitter.com/EdwerderRFA/status/1054412629505163264

 

Good job by the coaches.