justice98 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Just stumbled on this Schefty makes it sound worse than what was being reported elsewhere. Is it still 6-8 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, spjunkies said: There's no way he's returning from that. I feel bad for him. There's a chance, but really not much of one. I feel horrible for him, not only did he never really get going here, He suffered his worse injury in his career. yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Wow, I just read a bit on the spiral fractures and it sounds intense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, justice98 said: Schefty makes it sound worse than what was being reported elsewhere. Is it still 6-8 months? It seems like everyone else was speculating, I can't imagine Adam rolling with that without serious confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissident2 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Poor guy. I swear, the luck of this team. I was hoping he'd recover in time for next season. Looks like it's a lot more like Theismann's injury than we initially thought, in that the bone broke through the skin. Ugh. I think Theismann was 35/36 when that happened, and he of course never played again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 How the hell is that gonna be a 6-8 month recovery? Smith/Gruden just being optimistic when one of them said they expect to be ready for camp/week 1? Strange since they obviously have this info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Just stumbled on this That sounds like more then 6-8 months, which a minute ago was 3-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Does him retiring vs cut/whatever change the cap hit at all? I don't know a lot about what goes down when a player retires. (No, I don't see him doing that. I'm just curious.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Does him retiring vs cut/whatever change the cap hit at all? I don't know a lot about what goes down when a player retires. (No, I don't see him doing that. I'm just curious.) The contract essentially disappears, I believe. But we retain his rights if he tries to return later. Sometimes teams chase the return of a pro-rated amount of a signing bonus. Even the Lions did it with their living legend Calvin Johnson, though there was no drama there and he didn't try to fight it or anything. Basically, like you said--It's not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Lions did it to Barry Sanders, too, first time I think any team did that, so it was unprecedented at the time, now written into a CBA. We'd be talking settlement in that case, but I'm going to step away from whether this will happen or not until the full scale of this injury and return table is realized. It keeps getting longer and worse the more reports come out about it, this went from 3-6 months to damn near 10 in another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Lions did it to Barry Sanders, too, first time I think any team did that, so it was unprecedented at the time, now written into a CBA. We'd be talking settlement in that case, but I'm going to step away from whether this will happen or not until the full scale of this injury and return table is realized. It keeps getting longer and worse the more reports come out about it, this went from 3-6 months to damn near 10 in another. If you read up on the spiral fractures they can take as long as 18 months in more complex situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Lions did it to Barry Sanders, too, first time I think any team did that, so it was unprecedented at the time, now written into a CBA. Those were both non injury related retirements. The teams in both cases went after a prorated portion of the signing bonus because they were still under contract. Don't see that happening here, since the injury was unquestionably obtained on the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: If you read up on the spiral fractures they can take as long as 18 months in more complex situations. We need to wait to hear what official timetable is. If it's anything like that, we need to fight to get out of that contract instead of let him sit around and recover on our dime. We'd be 6 months away from being able to cut him anyway in that scenario, **** that. Just now, megared said: Those were both non injury related retirements. The teams in both cases went after a prorated portion of the signing bonus because they were still under contract. Don't see that happening here, since the injury was unquestionably obtained on the job. Fair, gotta be some way to change how we get Alex that money with it counting less against the cap in this case, he's barely going to be able to play in the time frame he was expected to at this rate, that's safe to him but absolutely unfair to us, especially if we don't plan to bring him back after the 3rd year of the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 My son's injury wasn't a compound fracture- in other words not as bad -- the doctor told me kids his age heal faster much quicker/better than adults, he's 8 months out and he still isn't running though we think he will finally get clearance next week. So tough for me to believe Alex is recovering that much quicker from a more serious version of the injury. Granted though Alex is an athlete and I gather would have the best physical therapists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: We need to wait to hear what official timetable is. If it's anything like that, we need to fight to get out of that contract instead of let him sit around and recover on our dime. We'd be 6 months away from being able to cut him anyway in that scenario, **** that. If the contract includes injury guarantees (it does), that's the entire point of them. If he can't play again, or at least any time soon, it happened on the job. We have no right to "get out of that contract" and he has every right to "recover on our dime". That's why players fight for these guarantees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said: If the contract includes injury guarantees (it does), that's the entire point of them. If he can't play again, or at least any time soon, it happened on the job. We have no right to "get out of that contract" and he has every right to "recover on our dime". That's why players fight for these guarantees. I get what you are saying, but this feels different. If this turns into a year and a half before he can play again and we are already talking about cutting him after three, for all we know he could just retire after that without ever playing another game for us. There's got to be another way to get him that money, I'm not talking about taking it away from him, there needs to be some kind of settlement, this is insane to have all that count against the cap in it be more then likely he never plays another game for us again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 If Smith retires or if he can't return to form then Daniel Snyder and all present and future members of the Redskins Front Office must make a blood oath to never trade for a QB from Andy Reid again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, ConnSKINS26 said: If the contract includes injury guarantees (it does), that's the entire point of them. If he can't play again, or at least any time soon, it happened on the job. We have no right to "get out of that contract" and he has every right to "recover on our dime". That's why players fight for these guarantees. As PFF talked up, that's the danger of giving a big contract with multiple years to a player like the Redskins gave Alex, they are on the hook for 70 million plus no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I get what you are saying, but this feels different. If this turns into a year and a half before he can play again and we are already talking about cutting him after three, for all we know he could just retire after that without ever playing another game for us. There's got to be another way to get him that money, I'm not talking about taking it away from him, there needs to be some kind of settlement, this is insane to have all that count against the cap in it be more then likely he never plays another game for us again. Idk man, I don't see the difference. He's owed the money regardless of if he ever plans to play again post-recovery, and since we gave him the contract it applies to the cap. Pretty cut-and-dry to me, that's the reason for injury guarantees. Same reason we wouldn't play RG3 at all his final year here because if he got hurt again his guarantees would have kicked in and we'd be stuck with him/his contract. Same reason folks are a little surprised Tampa is risking the same happening with Winston, if he gets hurt in a lost year when he's obviously not the guy, they'd be stuck with his contract next year. Potential injury is always part of the equation with contracts with injury guarantees. It just bit us hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Idk man, I don't see the difference. He's owed the money regardless of if he ever plans to play again post-recovery, and since we gave him the contract it applies to the cap. Pretty cut-and-dry to me, that's the reason for injury guarantees. Same reason we wouldn't play RG3 at all his final year here because if he got hurt again his guarantees would have kicked in and we'd be stuck with him/his contract. Same reason folks are a little surprised Tampa is risking the same happening with Winston, if he gets hurt in a lost year when he's obviously not the guy, they'd be stuck with his contract next year. Potential injury is always part of the equation with contracts with injury guarantees. It just bit us hard. Does feel like the rules just biting us in the ass. Again, I'm not against giving him the money, I just wish there was a way to get out of so much of it counting against the cap in a situation where he's possibly not going to play for the majority of the contract. This has got to be worst case scenario for us from this trade, that we pushed the signing bonus money front and he gets injured and doesn't play for most of the three year window we needed him for. You're examples were a 6-12 months, if they say Alex can't even be medically cleared for 18, are we more in Teddy Bridgewater territory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Does feel like the rules just biting us in the ass. Again, I'm not against giving him the money, I just wish there was a way to get out of so much of it counting against the cap in a situation where he's possibly not going to play for the majority of the contract. This has got to be worst case scenario for us from this trade, that we pushed the signing bonus money front and he gets injured and doesn't play for most of the three year window we needed him for. You're examples were a 6-12 months, if they say Alex can't even be medically cleared for 18, are we more in Teddy Bridgewater territory? This is why teams don't like the guaranteed money thing. And he's got a lot of it. And, to be really blunt, there is not a damned thing we can do about it. If he's unable to play for the next 2 years, and when I say that, not even get on the practice field, it does not matter. 31 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: We need to wait to hear what official timetable is. If it's anything like that, we need to fight to get out of that contract instead of let him sit around and recover on our dime. We'd be 6 months away from being able to cut him anyway in that scenario, **** that. Fair, gotta be some way to change how we get Alex that money with it counting less against the cap in this case, he's barely going to be able to play in the time frame he was expected to at this rate, that's safe to him but absolutely unfair to us, especially if we don't plan to bring him back after the 3rd year of the contract. Again, it does not matter. We signed the contract too. On the flip side, it's like you sign a 5 year deal and get cut after 2, when most of the money is back loaded. 22 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I get what you are saying, but this feels different. If this turns into a year and a half before he can play again and we are already talking about cutting him after three, for all we know he could just retire after that without ever playing another game for us. There's got to be another way to get him that money, I'm not talking about taking it away from him, there needs to be some kind of settlement, this is insane to have all that count against the cap in it be more then likely he never plays another game for us again. Once, again, it does not matter. We signed the contract. Literally, the only way to avoid it would be to have Smith retire in exchange for a injury settlement, and I don't even know if that is an available move. We CAN cut him today, but then the cap hit is humongous. There is no real way around it. And it's fair, because we signed the contract. What stinks is this is basically the worse case scenario for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Does feel like the rules just biting us in the ass. Again, I'm not against giving him the money, I just wish there was a way to get out of so much of it counting against the cap in a situation where he's possibly not going to play for the majority of the contract. That's just how the NFL works. Do you hear the 49ers fans mourning their wasted salary cap because of the Jimmy G injury? No, they are mourning the loss of Jimmy G. Honestly, Redskins fans are looking to the injury to save us from the consequences for signing Alex Smith to a contract with $71M guaranteed. No dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 This is a pretty interesting article that breaks down the insurance process that most teams follow. https://www.denverpost.com/2013/07/16/nfl-teams-players-both-often-get-insurance-for-potential-injuries/ I would guess the Redskins did this for a high salary player like Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Morneblade said: We CAN cut him today, Actually, I don't think we can, because he's hurt. He has the right to stay on the team's IR and recover at our facilities. What I definitely know is that you can't get out of injury guaranteed money by cutting an injured player. Guaranteed means guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Tsailand said: Actually, I don't think we can, because he's hurt. He has the right to stay on the team's IR and recover at our facilities. What I definitely know is that you can't get out of injury guaranteed money by cutting an injured player. Guaranteed means guaranteed. That would be more in line with what I was talking about. I think we could come up with a injury settlement, but that settlement would include ever red cent of his guaranteed contract. People are looking for ways to get out of it, including Alex retiring and giving us our money back. And, it's laughable. He's getting paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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