Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

I suppose you are all making valid points but a Dallas victory will render all your complaints moot.  My boney butt is going to scramble back up onto the Alex Smith bandwagon I abandoned after NO if Alex leads them to a victory!  

I think you are looking too much in comments about Alex as a sign of not appreciating a win. The two subjects I dont think are that interrelated.  I know I enjoyed  the win.  

 

I dont think they won though because of Alex but because of Peterson and the defense.   So looking ahead, hoping he improves. Doug Williams who is typically pretty positive just about admitted yesterday that Alex hasn't been great and he's hoping he plays better. I do not think Doug said so because he has trouble enjoying a win.

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

At this point, I feel like I’m more rooting for Alex Smith to just not wreck the car. It’s evident that we must run the ball successfully, get stops and TOs on D, to win games.  I’m fine with that, basically Alex just needs to be able to keep the chains moving.

I am fine with it too as to that analogy, let Peterson do his thing, ditto the defense, just dont screw it up for them. 

 

But I think Alex can play better than that. If we have an above average RB, defense - imagine if we had above average Qb play, too? We havent seen that yet but hoping it's coming. I am actually optimistic it is coming.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

I suppose you are all making valid points but a Dallas victory will render all your complaints moot.  My boney butt is going to scramble back up onto the Alex Smith bandwagon I abandoned after NO if Alex leads them to a victory!  

 

Love the enthusiasm...but if we beat Dallas 13-10 on a the strength of a great defensive effort and running game with Smith playing poorly, is that really OK? 

 

And I don't mean within the context of enjoying the team W, that's a given. I mean that wouldn't we have concerns about how long we can win 2 out of every 3 games with bad QB play moving forward? 

 

I can enjoy the victory but still be extremely concerned about the QB who is very likely here for 2-3 years. I did/was last weekend. 

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

I suppose you are all making valid points but a Dallas victory will render all your complaints moot.  My boney butt is going to scramble back up onto the Alex Smith bandwagon I abandoned after NO if Alex leads them to a victory!  

 

So far Alex Smith has not lead anyone to victory. If he does so Sunday, it will be the first time this season. If this team wins 3-0, and Smith goes 7-19 for 66 yards, they won IN SPITE of Alex Smith. Last week was kinda like that. Smith was bad, and we still won. He lead nothing. So far this team wins, and looses with AP. Adrian Peterson leads us to victory, not Alex Smith so far this season.

 

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

At this point, I feel like I’m more rooting for Alex Smith to just not wreck the car. It’s evident that we must run the ball successfully, get stops and TOs on D, to win games.  I’m fine with that, basically Alex just needs to be able to keep the chains moving.

 

This is accurate. Unfortunately, if we need him to do anymore than that (and we have in our 2 losses) he can't. He is not Mario Andretti. He is my 75 year old mother driving. He needs to be much better. He needs to maybe not be Mario Andretti, but someone that is not terrified of the fast lane.

 

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Love the enthusiasm...but if we beat Dallas 13-10 on a the strength of a great defensive effort and running game with Smith playing poorly, is that really OK? 

 

And I don't mean within the context of enjoying the team W, that's a given. I mean that wouldn't we have concerns about how long we can win 2 out of every 3 games with bad QB play moving forward? 

 

I can enjoy the victory but still be extremely concerned about the QB who is very likely here for 2-3 years. I did/was last weekend. 

 

Exactly.

[megared]

22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree with we should be patient sentiment.  But I learned recently that they can get out of the third year if they cut him this Spring.  You'd  have to swallow one year on the cap but other teams have done it like the Cowboys with Romo.  I am not saying they should but there is a way to make it 2 years if need be. 

 

I think it will all have to do with how the season goes.  Goes well even if Alex isn't always hot -- i think he's brought back for both years coming up.  If it doesn't and they clean house, I think there is a shot with a new coaching staff that they suck up the cap hit and reboot.

 

The only way i could see that happening is if Bruce is not involved with the front office after this season.   Even then, it would have to represent the beginning of a complete rebuild,  as I don't believe we have the cap space next year to absorb all of that dead money... meaning we'd have to cut additional guys just to make it work. 

[wit33]

Context, context, context...

 

If Alex doesn’t turn ball over, scrambles for to convert 3 critical 3rd downs to extend drives, hits on one long TD pass, connects with Reed for 5 first downs throughout the game, team converts 6 of 13 on 3rd downs, 1 for 1 on 4th down, converts leads a drive 7min drive to extend the lead to 10 points with 4 min to go— resulting in a victory.... all is good.

 

These mentions above could be Alex having a stat line of 205 yards passing, 19 rushing yards, 18-28, 1-2 TD passes. A below average game for those looking numbers only. Football cannot be looked at this way. 

 

 

For example, I could use stats to share Kirk Cousins has completed 18 passes of 20+ yards in 6 games/Alex Smith 17 passes of 20+ in 5 games or Cousins 3 completions of 40 yards and Alex Smith 4 completions of 40 yards to argue Smith is doing no worse in pushing the ball down field than Kirk who Alex is being compared daily on here. 

 

Ive lamented the fact the passing game must improve, not running from this fact, but team sits at 3-2 due to being a complete team in games won. 

 

Cause and effect of various situations and how team/players respond throughout game is where true value can be determined. Must look beyond numbers. 

[JSSkinz]

At some point, the law of averages SHOULD kick in and Alex will have a big game, this week would be a great time to do it.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

40 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Context, context, context...

 

If Alex doesn’t turn ball over, scrambles for to convert 3 critical 3rd downs to extend drives, hits on one long TD pass, connects with Reed for 5 first downs throughout the game, team converts 6 of 13 on 3rd downs, 1 for 1 on 4th down, converts leads a drive 7min drive to extend the lead to 10 points with 4 min to go— resulting in a victory.... all is good.

 

These mentions above could be Alex having a stat line of 205 yards passing, 19 rushing yards, 18-28, 1-2 TD passes. A below average game for those looking numbers only. Football cannot be looked at this way. 

 

 

For example, I could use stats to share Kirk Cousins has completed 18 passes of 20+ yards in 6 games/Alex Smith 17 passes of 20+ in 5 games or Cousins 3 completions of 40 yards and Alex Smith 4 completions of 40 yards to argue Smith is doing no worse in pushing the ball down field than Kirk who Alex is being compared daily on here. 

 

Ive lamented the fact the passing game must improve, not running from this fact, but team sits at 3-2 due to being a complete team in games won. 

 

Cause and effect of various situations and how team/players respond throughout game is where true value can be determined. Must look beyond numbers. 

 

So, if all that happens I wouldn't personally consider that a "bad" game for Smith. I'm not only focusing on his numbers, but also what we see (specifically that many times he's NOT doing those intangible things you've listed). 

 

My point (if you were referring to me) is that simply winning or losing isn't enough to feel good or bad about our QB and how he projects moving forward. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

42 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Cause and effect of various situations and how team/players respond throughout game is where true value can be determined. Must look beyond numbers. 

Rainman, is that you?

 

I think everyone looks past the numbers, but those with differing agendas see them differently anyways.

 

Fact of the matter is Alex has literally done nothing to this point that leads me to believe he’s some secret assassin that has added value that you can’t see in the numbers.  Perhaps that will come but to this point alluding to some cause and effect value for him is stretching it.

6 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

At some point, the law of averages SHOULD kick in and Alex will have a big game, this week would be a great time to do it.

 

The Dallas secondary can be had, if in the event the Skins can keep up with their Dline and Alex starts pulling the trigger.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

@BatteredFanSyndrome I agree that the numbers seem to confirm what I've seen with my eyes. There are certainly a handful of plays that I can recall that we may not have hit last year with Cousins. 

 

The touch pass on the move to Richardson last week is an example. A couple scrambles in the first couple weeks come to mind too. But nothing close to the amount of intangible plays that would offset what he's NOT doing just within the context of the offense. 

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

So far Alex Smith has not lead anyone to victory. If he does so Sunday, it will be the first time this season. If this team wins 3-0, and Smith goes 7-19 for 66 yards, they won IN SPITE of Alex Smith. Last week was kinda like that. Smith was bad, and we still won. He lead nothing. So far this team wins, and looses with AP. Adrian Peterson leads us to victory, not Alex Smith so far this season.

 

Edit

 

AZ and GB he led the team to a big leas and let the D do their job - which they did. So saying he has not led anyone is not accurate. A win does not have to be a miraculous come from behind win. And his numbers are not very much different than Kirk's through his first 5 games last year. And that was after being in Jays system for several years. I get Alex is a veteran. But it takes some time to develop the timing and trust between QB ad WRs. With our mash until of WRs tat's been difficult. I agree we need more out of him. But to say he has not done anything to lead the team is just not true. 

 

58 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Rainman, is that you?

 

I think everyone looks past the numbers, but those with differing agendas see them differently anyways.

 

Fact of the matter is Alex has literally done nothing to this point that leads me to believe he’s some secret assassin that has added value that you can’t see in the numbers.  Perhaps that will come but to this point alluding to some cause and effect value for him is stretching it.

Edit

 

You guys need to stop making up narratives. Exactly who said this? No one even implied it. The point being made is that he has not been as bad as some of you are making him out to be. Has he been great? No, of course not. But he has not been a complete POS either. I will reiterate as above, Alex's numbers a pretty close to Kirk's through 5 games last year. The one major difference? 2-3 last yr, 3-2 this year. Is it all Alex? No. But don;t say it's all D either. Last year gonig into and coming out of KC the D was making some noise - only to see the injuries pile up. 

 

If he is still playing like this after another 4 or 5 games, OK.  But good grief give them man chance to at least get his breath and get a little more used to Jay's offence. 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

You guys need to stop making up narratives. Exactly who said this? No one even implied it. The point being made is that he has not been as bad as some of you are making him out to be. Has he been great? No, of course not. But he has not been a complete POS either. I will reiterate as above, Alex's numbers a pretty close to Kirk's through 5 games last year. The one major difference? 2-3 last yr, 3-2 this year. Is it all Alex? No. But don;t say it's all D either. Last year gonig into and coming out of KC the D was making some noise - only to see the injuries pile up. 

 

If he is still playing like this after another 4 or 5 games, OK.  But good grief give them man chance to at least get his breath and get a little more used to Jay's offence. 

Perhaps you’re out of the loop but wit33 has his own unique way of viewing the QB position.  He looks at things far differently than most.  Interesting you felt the need to chime in and defend what he said with what you think he’s saying.  You deliberately omitted the last part of my statement which ties together the first part of what I said.  What I took from what he said based on what I know about his point of view is that while his numbers aren’t great he’s bringing value in ways we can’t see on the stat sheet.  I disagree that ‘to this point’ that is the case.  That’s the other part you omitted, as I never said he couldn’t get better. 

[JPG]

This thread is getting Nauseating. I get that the man has been struggling to hit open receivers but he’s our QB and I genuinely feel he is dealing with the situation as good as he can. 

Watching the Alex Smoth show on YouTube is breath of fresh air. 

 

I could get into it more but I’m typing on my phone. How about letting it unfold more before pitting his head on a spike. Would you have rather watched Rosen struggle us to a winless record and not have Payne?

[goskins10]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Perhaps you’re out of the loop but wit33 has his own unique way of viewing the QB position.  He looks at things far differently than most.  Interesting you felt the need to chime in and defend what he said with what you think he’s saying.  You deliberately omitted the last part of my statement which ties together the first part of what I said.  What I took from what he said based on what I know about his point of view is that while his numbers aren’t great he’s bringing value in ways we can’t see on the stat sheet.  I disagree that ‘to this point’ that is the case.  That’s the other part you omitted, as I never said he couldn’t get better. 

 

Not out of the loop. Was not defending wit at all. It was a general statement that the impatience for Alex is a bit over the top. I was addressing your comment on it's own merits. You and a few others have been piling on to Alex with a fervor that is a bit over the top. 

 

You did not just disagree. You got snarly with the "secret assassin" statement. Maybe that was not how yo meant it but that's how it read. Some of you land on anyone who wants to be positive so hard I am not sure you even realize it. It's the same with some of those who refuse to see any negatives. It is Extreme Skins so have at it. 

 

And I only left out a statement about how dallast could be had. Not sure how it changed the entire context of the comment - especially since it was completely separate. But Ok. 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not out of the loop. Was not defending wit at all. It was a general statement that the impatience for Alex is a bit over the top. I was addressing your comment on it's own merits. You and a few others have been piling on to Alex with a fervor that is a bit over the top. 

 

You did not just disagree. You got snarly with the "secret assassin" statement. Maybe that was not how yo meant it but that's how it read. Some of you land on anyone who wants to be positive so hard I am not sure you even realize it. It's the same with some of those who refuse to see any negatives. It is Extreme Skins so have at it. 

 

And I only left out a statement about how dallast could be had. Not sure how it changed the entire context of the comment - especially since it was completely separate. But Ok. 

If you call agreeing with what’s being seen on tape and documented by others with greater knowledge than me “piling on”, so be it. I guess every analyst saying how much he’s leaving out there on the field is “piling on” too.  I’ve been discussing what we’ve seen not what we might see down the line.  I’m on record saying he will play better down the line.  How much better, that’s up for debate.

 

You call that snarly? Really? My point was that it’s insulting to insinuate that we can’t see what’s going on right in front of us.  That we are basing our assessments solely on the stat sheet and that there is really something better going on that we can’t see.

 

In regards to what you left out, I was referring to the comments you didn’t format in bold.  You used the bolder part as a launching point but failed to recognize the rest of the statement.  Where I made it very clear that I was talking about right now not later. 

[Tsailand]

5 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Love the enthusiasm...but if we beat Dallas 13-10 on a the strength of a great defensive effort and running game with Smith playing poorly, is that really OK? 

 

It's OK in the sense that we will be leading the division at 4-2 and Dallas fans will be miserable all next week.

 

It's not OK in terms of having a good QB that gives you hope for the future.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

47 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

It's OK in the sense that we will be leading the division at 4-2 and Dallas fans will be miserable all next week.

 

It's not OK in terms of having a good QB that gives you hope for the future.

 

Exactly my point...I can separate my giddiness over a team win and my optimism that winning is sustainable with a poorly-performing QB. 

[PartyPosse]

Anyone who knows me knows I wasn't a Kirk supporter at all, but the Smith trade and subsequent start is a "careful what you wish for" scenario. This isn't just a QB playing differently than he has in the past. This is unfortunately who smith is. One of my closest friends is a diehard Chiefs fan so I've unfortunately spent more than enough time listening to his criticisms of Smith and even watching the games. This is who he is. He's a QB that won't win you games but won't lose you games either. It's all fine when the run game and D are competent like they were in KC but were not anywhere close to that. This isn't a good fit at the moment and the trade was really a delusional optimistic expectation by the FO of the quality of the team's roster. I didn't expect Smith to be playing this poorly but to expect suddenly he's going to revert back to last year's alex is merely a best case scenario. Something in between is what you're going to get. He's Brad Johnson in TB or Neil O'Donnell in Pittsburgh.  If the game is close Smith excels in working the clock, giving the d a rest and wearing the other team down by nickling and diming with his checkdowns. But if you think he's going to revert back to being a gunslinger then you're out of your mind. If he was anything close to that kind of QB then kc wouldn't have traded up to draft a another gunslinging QB.

[wit33]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Rainman, is that you?

 

I think everyone looks past the numbers, but those with differing agendas see them differently anyways.

 

Fact of the matter is Alex has literally done nothing to this point that leads me to believe he’s some secret assassin that has added value that you can’t see in the numbers.  Perhaps that will come but to this point alluding to some cause and effect value for him is stretching it.

 

What a great movie.

 

Id suggest most don’t put enough value in looking past the numbers— it’s supremely difficult as the value meter is ever changing from situation to situation. For example, I’d never attempt to discuss or debate any other team in NFL on same merits, due to not watching nearly enough. 

 

You will say all fans do this, I disagree, but not because I’m a Dustin Hoffman movie character (I know about 4 or 5 things in life, no intellectual here)— most fans don’t care enough lol. 

 

Your brash and bold statements of Alex has done nothing to help to win in any games, leads me to feel your emotions are running high about past organizational events or don’t care enough to look beyond the numbers. Based off premise Alex has done nothing to help team win. 

 

My agenda is to assess Alex’s strengths and weaknesses and do best to determine whether Skins can make the playoffs this season. I’m not completely convinced either way about Alex to date, but see the value he provides in the 3 wins (less in the Panther game—as TOs played a huge role in outcome). I also choose to factor in his ranking in pay as a QB and don’t have top 8 QB expectations. 

 

(I saw two games Alex Smith contributed greatly (Cards— 3td drives in half and Packers—passing game early helped run game take over game))

 

With that allll that said, pass game must improve for it to be a good season. Not dismissing this fact, just not going to be pushed to one extreme or other. 

 

@PartyPosse

 

His legs are the key— Everything else can be average to above depending on scheme and game flow. You will also win the TO battle in most games. These represent his tangible elite traits. Hopefully it will lead to playoffs this year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Your brash and bold statements of Alex has done nothing to help to win in any games, leads me to feel your emotions are running high about past organizational events or don’t care enough to look beyond the numbers. Based off premise Alex has done nothing to help team win. 

 

Please show me where I said he literally did nothing to help the team win.  What I said was he’s done nothing so far to lead me to believe that his intangibles or whatever you are alluding to have been the difference in winning and losing football games to this point.  Less than a week ago he was lucky enough to fumble a ball that Trent picked up and saved his butt, allowing Hops to kick a FG.  That’s not something that shows up on the stat sheet and was a negative play, that got lucky it didn’t end up the other way.  That’s not the only infraction that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet.  I understand **** happens, so that isn’t about clowning Alex.  Just making a point that both good and bad things don’t necessarily hit the stat sheet.  

 

By the way, none of that has jack to do with emotions running high.  I wasn’t an Alex Smith fan before the idea was even fostered to go get him.  So it’s not like I’m landing on a point just to spite the organization. Besides, I’m past emotions running high over football....except during the game.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, JPG said:

Would you have rather watched Rosen struggle us to a winless record and not have Payne?

 

The key to all 3 of our wins was establishing the run game and the defense holding on/getting turnovers.  So yeah, I think a rookie could manage those games at a much cheaper salary.  

 

Perhaps it starts clicking and things get much better offensively.  But if it stays exactly as it is, there’s no doubt a rookie could produce just the same.

[Hooper]

Taking what the defense gives you and winning the turnover battle is boring.

 

It also wins like 75 percent of NFL games.

 

And it's a lot harder to do than it looks. It's not about going three and out on offense. The Skins had three long ass drives last week in the second half. Didn't result in a lot of points, but kept the panthers Offense from scoring. 

 

Cousins -- who I'm a fan of -- is racking up yards but did everything he could last week to lose against a God-awful Arizona team.

 

Going to be interesting to see what the Skins record is at year's end. I could see us winning the division and fans complaining about Smith. There's a lot about his game people don't appreciate, myself included. 

[JSSkinz]

I hope we get this thing going and play the Vikes in the playoffs, the only thing scary about that team is Theilen, other than that as GMSM once said: "I don't see special". ?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

8 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I hope we get this thing going and play the Vikes in the playoffs, the only thing scary about that team is Theilen, other than that as GMSM once said: "I don't see special". ?

 

Dalvin Cook can be a beast when he's right.  But scary to see his fall off coming off an ACL.  Hopefully Guice bounces back like Peterson did from his ACL versus Cook.

 

 

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

AZ and GB he led the team to a big leas and let the D do their job - which they did. So saying he has not led anyone is not accurate. A win does not have to be a miraculous come from behind win. And his numbers are not very much different than Kirk's through his first 5 games last year. And that was after being in Jays system for several years. I get Alex is a veteran. But it takes some time to develop the timing and trust between QB ad WRs. With our mash until of WRs tat's been difficult. I agree we need more out of him. But to say he has not done anything to lead the team is just not true. 

 

 

You guys need to stop making up narratives. Exactly who said this? No one even implied it. The point being made is that he has not been as bad as some of you are making him out to be. Has he been great? No, of course not. But he has not been a complete POS either. I will reiterate as above, Alex's numbers a pretty close to Kirk's through 5 games last year. The one major difference? 2-3 last yr, 3-2 this year. Is it all Alex? No. But don;t say it's all D either. Last year gonig into and coming out of KC the D was making some noise - only to see the injuries pile up. 

 

If he is still playing like this after another 4 or 5 games, OK.  But good grief give them man chance to at least get his breath and get a little more used to Jay's offence. 

 

 

 

We were 3-2 last year as well 

 

 

and yes, ppl were making Alex Smith out to be a gunslinging beast in the offseason. That was happening here and on twitter. That’s why a lot of us are so passionate about how poorly he’s playing now honestly 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If you call agreeing with what’s being seen on tape and documented by others with greater knowledge than me “piling on”, so be it. I guess every analyst saying how much he’s leaving out there on the field is “piling on” too.  I’ve been discussing what we’ve seen not what we might see down the line.  I’m on record saying he will play better down the line.  How much better, that’s up for debate.

 

You call that snarly? Really? My point was that it’s insulting to insinuate that we can’t see what’s going on right in front of us.  That we are basing our assessments solely on the stat sheet and that there is really something better going on that we can’t see.

 

In regards to what you left out, I was referring to the comments you didn’t format in bold.  You used the bolder part as a launching point but failed to recognize the rest of the statement.  Where I made it very clear that I was talking about right now not later. 

 

I didn't know leaving text in the message as leaving it out. Seems the leaving something out has a new definition...   Or....  I highlighted what I was addressing and at least partially agreed with the rest. 

 

Not sure how we brought the entire media and all the analysts in play. Also, I never said he was doing great or perfect. And you know wit does have a bit of a point. But I don;t think it's just about Alex. I think there is a changing of leadership on the team overall, especially on D. They have had one bad game. 

 

I actually agree that Alex is missing things and needs to do better. But that does not mean he has been useless to start the season. My biggest point really was you guys are jumping on him pretty hard for only playing 5 games in the system. 

 

Here is the best - I gave you several chances to correct me on the record at this time with Kirk - we were actually exactly the same as last year - 3-2 ...  ? 

 

I really hope they tear dallast a new asshole. As you stated, dallast secondary can be had. It would be a good time for things to start clicking.