Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Alex has appeared to not read coverages well or throw guys open, buuuut

 

How is Richardson considered to be open on this play? There’s no way a safety isn’t over the top, but picture cuts him out. “9” guys in the picture. This is reaching. I’m positive there’s better examples lol

 

If you think I am reaching that guys are open on that play.  And I can find better examples, wow.   How much more open can players get?  7 yards cushion not enough?  If your point was Bibbs was even more open than Richardson, i get that.  But yeah if Cooley among others are just wildly off for criticizing this play -- I'll say this I get the impression that they have company on it inside the building based on a couple of beat guys, it doesn't sound like the criticism on that play is coming out of thin air.  If you are implying its perfectly normal to take a sack based on what you see there -- I don't think you'll find many agreeing with you, if any.

 

23 minutes ago, cphil006 said:

Where was the first down marker in that pic?  

 

Around the 35.  On that play its not even the operative point, its getting back in range for a field goal after his intentional grounding penalty.

[Taylor 36]

21 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Alex has appeared to not read coverages well or throw guys open, buuuut

 

How is Richardson considered to be open on this play? There’s no way a safety isn’t over the top, but picture cuts him out. “9” guys in the picture. This is reaching. I’m positive there’s better examples lol

 

Whats the down, distance, and time in this situation? Underneath routes would’ve led to a 53-55 yard FG depending on situation.

Is this a serious post?  I'm asking, because I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just trying to be sarcastic about guys being open.  With the exception of a  very badly blown coverage, you will never see a guy more open in the NFL, never mind multiple receivers.  That is Jason Campbell incompetence right there at the QB position.

[wit33]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you think I am reaching that guys are open on that play.  And I can find better examples, wow.   How much more open can players get?  7 yards cushion not enough?  If your point was Bibbs was even more open than Richardson, i get that.  But yeah if Cooley among others are just wildly off for criticizing this play -- I'll say this I get the impression that they have company on it inside the building based on a couple of beats guys, it doesn't sound like the criticism on that play is coming out of thin air.  If you are implying its perfectly normal to take a sack based on what you see there -- I don't think you'll find many agreeing with you, if any.

 

 

Around the 35.  On that play its not even the operative point, its getting back in range for a field goal after his intentional grounding penalty.

 

Overall, I’ve lamented time and time again at passing game being below average to average. I’d imagine WRs are being missed a good amount, especially when factoring in history of Jays ability to scheme guys open. No argument from here.

 

This specific picture in my eyes seemed to be a bit of a reach. Why cutout two defenders? You pointed out Richardson wide open, this would appear true if a safety wasn’t sitting over the top of him. Am I missing something?

 

Im not jaded in a way to not learn or be made of something I’m missing with this picture. 

2 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Is this a serious post?  I'm asking, because I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just trying to be sarcastic about guys being open.  With the exception of a  very badly blown coverage, you will never see a guy more open in the NFL, never mind multiple receivers.  That is Jason Campbell incompetence right there at the QB position.

 

Which guy? If Richardson is being argued as open, then I feel a discussion can be had, due to safety over top being cut out of picture for whatever reason. 

 

Yes, a soft cover 2 is being played by defense— giving the Skins a short drop off pass in middle of field and take away sidelines or anything deep. Alex appears to be looking to push ball down field to get in better position. 

 

I have no clue of the situation of this picture though. Don’t remember. 

[DJHJR86]

17 minutes ago, Temper11 said:

 

ok... well, mahomes right now looks better than every quarterback that has ever played the position so...

 

And it's evident that Smith was holding the offense back.

[Morneblade]

14 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Is this a serious post?  I'm asking, because I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just trying to be sarcastic about guys being open.  With the exception of a  very badly blown coverage, you will never see a guy more open in the NFL, never mind multiple receivers.  That is Jason Campbell incompetence right there at the QB position.

 

Come on. You know damn well that both Brunell and Campbell hit that checkdown. And yes, he's being serious.

[Taylor 36]

27 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Overall, I’ve lamented time and time again at passing game being below average to average. I’d imagine WRs are being missed a good amount, especially when factoring in history of Jays ability to scheme guys open. No argument from here.

 

This specific picture in my eyes seemed to be a bit of a reach. Why cutout two defenders? You pointed out Richardson wide open, this would appear true if a safety wasn’t sitting over the top of him. Am I missing something?

 

Im not jaded in a way to not learn or be made of something I’m missing with this picture. 

 

Which guy? If Richardson is being argued as open, then I feel a discussion can be had, due to safety over top being cut out of picture for whatever reason. 

 

Yes, a soft cover 2 is being played by defense— giving the Skins a short drop off pass in middle of field and take away sidelines or anything deep. Alex appears to be looking to push ball down field to get in better position. 

 

I have no clue of the situation of this picture though. Don’t remember. 

Even with a safety is over the top, the fact that they aren't in the picture shows that there is a five yard cushion at minimum between the safety and the closest receiver.  Sure, the safety could react, possibly even make a great play and get there in time to knock the ball down, but to hold the ball with that much space around four guys is inexcusable.  Even hitting one of the two guys open for the mid-gain, helping FG position, would have made sense.  Much better than running into the defense and taking a sack that prevents a FG attempt from even happening.  A 14 year vet should know so much better.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Why not compare Alex Smith's 2nd year under Andy Reid to Patrick Mahomes?

 

Smith: 9 touchdowns, 4 interceptions, 63.98% completion, 6.83 AY/A, 1270 yards, 91 passer rating.

Mahomes: 18 touchdowns, 4 interceptions, 63.68% completion, 9.65 AY/A, 1865 yards, 112.2 passer rating.

 

I mean, you can compare anyone you want to and that would be apt if we were trying to determine if Mahomes is better than Smith. But that doesn't help me try to figure out if Smith will progress or improve in THIS offense on THIS team. I think it's clear as day that we would all take Mahomes over Smith. 

 

The reason I picked Year 1 Cousins vs. Year 1 Smith in Gruden's system is to understand if we can expect things to trend up and/or understand if a slow start is expected. I didn't mean it as a direct comparison between the QBs so much as a barometer on where Cousins was through 5-6 games and where he ended up after 4 seasons. My hope is that we see that same trend with Smith. 

[Taylor 36]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Come on. You know damn well that both Brunell and Campbell hit that checkdown. And yes, he's being serious.

Hahaha!  I was using Campbell as a reference due to his constant insistence that a guy be open before he threw the ball because he never grasped the concept that you throw guys open in the NFL, and that open in the NFL isn't a five yard cushion like in college.  Hell, Alex taking the checkdown there would have at least allowed for a FG attempt.  SMH!!!

[DJHJR86]

12 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

The reason I picked Year 1 Cousins vs. Year 1 Smith in Gruden's system is to understand if we can expect things to trend up and/or understand if a slow start is expected. I didn't mean it as a direct comparison between the QBs so much as a barometer on where Cousins was through 5-6 games and where he ended up after 4 seasons. My hope is that we see that same trend with Smith. 

 

Year 1 Cousins in Gruden's system was in the league for 2 seasons.  Year 1 Smith has been in the league for 13 prior.  I don't think anything will be an apple to apple comparison, other than the eye test.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Overall, I’ve lamented time and time again at passing game being below average to average. I’d imagine WRs are being missed a good amount, especially when factoring in history of Jays ability to scheme guys open. No argument from here.

 

This specific picture in my eyes seemed to be a bit of a reach. Why cutout two defenders? You pointed out Richardson wide open, this would appear true if a safety wasn’t sitting over the top of him. Am I missing something?

 

Im not jaded in a way to not learn or be made of something I’m missing with this picture. 

 

Which guy? If Richardson is being argued as open, then I feel a discussion can be had, due to safety over top being cut out of picture for whatever reason. 

 

Yes, a soft cover 2 is being played by defense— giving the Skins a short drop off pass in middle of field and take away sidelines or anything deep. Alex appears to be looking to push ball down field to get in better position. 

 

I have no clue of the situation of this picture though. Don’t remember. 

 

Look at Alex in the pocket.  The guy closest to him is whomever Moses was blocking but Moses contains him.  Actually to correct myself this drive is the one before the last drive in the half, forgot they had back to back stalls around the 45.   Alex creeps forward a few yards and finds himself in a collapsing pocket.  The guy Alex is looking at is Bibbs, not Richardson although both are wide open.    You aren't getting insane 10-15 yard cushions to complete passes unless you got some seriously busted coverages.  This is some really serious cushion to mess with.

 

 

 

Here's the one for intentional grounding.  some are beating him up for this one.  Not as easy as the other play but it looks like Richardson open for a cross route, Harris looks like is getting past the CB.   Not super easy but if you throw with anticipation not crazy hard either.  QBs talk about having a 2-3 second window.  You have to see things quickly and throw with anticipation.  All Qbs have plays like this.  But just saying I don't think Cooley is reaching with the idea that the #1 problem with this offense isn't about Wrs getting open -- they are getting open.  It's funny often when i look at these plays, Doctson is just a second behind a big play, he gets open often but too often a tick too late.  On this one he gets open on the left for a TD if Alex can buy time but in his defense it was a second too long.  Life comes at you fast in the pocket that's why the good QBs make some big bucks.  Bruce Arians says in his book plenty of QBs he's been around can read defenses and can throw well but most of them can't process it all quickly and make snap decisions -- and processing things quickly is a key component to be a successful QB. 

 

 

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I mean, you can compare anyone you want to and that would be apt if we were trying to determine if Mahomes is better than Smith. But that doesn't help me try to figure out if Smith will progress or improve in THIS offense on THIS team. I think it's clear as day that we would all take Mahomes over Smith. 

 

The reason I picked Year 1 Cousins vs. Year 1 Smith in Gruden's system is to understand if we can expect things to trend up and/or understand if a slow start is expected. I didn't mean it as a direct comparison between the QBs so much as a barometer on where Cousins was through 5-6 games and where he ended up after 4 seasons. My hope is that we see that same trend with Smith. 

 

The big problem with this is that your taking a 3rd year QB that was the backup and trying to compare him with a 13 year Vet with over 150 starts. I mean one of the selling points with Smith is that he was SO smart, Greden couldn't open the entire playbook to Cousins, blah blah blah. That, and Cousins was a unknown, Alex has a mountain of information on him. He doesn't do that well in traditional NFL offenses, you need to throw a lot of college RPO looks, like he ran so well in college and in KC. Basically, he's not going to run a Gruden offense that well. Gruden will need to infuse a lot of RPO stuff, very similar to what Shanahan to do for Griffin. Griffin was not going to be effective running a drop back passing system. He had to run the RO to be effective.

 

If any Coach was going to get Smith to be comfortable in a rhythm offense, it's going to be Andy Reid. He wasn't able to do that, he had to scheme to Smiths strengths. Jay is going to have to do the same thing if Smith is going to be successful.

 

2 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Hahaha!  I was using Campbell as a reference due to his constant insistence that a guy be open before he threw the ball because he never grasped the concept that you throw guys open in the NFL, and that open in the NFL isn't a five yard cushion like in college.  Hell, Alex taking the checkdown there would have at least allowed for a FG attempt.  SMH!!!

 

Oh, I know. But I threw it out there because our current "Checkdown Charlie" failed where our others would have succeeded. Checking down!

[Temper11]

36 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

And it's evident that Smith was holding the offense back.

 

Yes - that is evident.  But you could have said that about any QB Mahomes would have replaced.  He's making throws and plays that no one makes.  So...

 

Also, the Chiefs offense (apart from the QB) - who were already talented, got better even better in the off season.  In addition to Tyreek Hill, they now have a legit #2 WR in Sammy Watkins - probably would be WR1 on the skins.  In 2017, Smith's WR2 option was Chris Connely and he was injured very early in the season.  So Tyreek Hill and WR3 in 2017 to Tyreek Hill and Sammy Watkins in 2018.  Not exactly Apples to Apples.

 

But still, I'm not suggesting anything be taken away from Mahomes.  The kid looks freaking unbelievable.  Hats off to him. 

 

I'm also not suggesting anyone should be happy with what they've seen from Smith so far this season.  He hasn't played up to his capability yet.  Was hoping there wouldn't be much of a learning curve, but there appears to be - big ass brain or not.  1st half game 1 and 1st half game 3 is what I would say is Smith's typical play.  Not explosive.  Not super exciting.  Just methodical and consistent - move the chains, eat clock, put up points.  When receivers catch the passes in his type of play, it is really effective.  Penalties, sacks and dropped passes really hurt because it puts them off-schedule and behind the chains.  That's when people usually become frustrated with him.  But mostly this season, you haven't seen Smith's game.  Only those 1st half's of 2 games. 

 

The rest has really exaggerated his weaknesses.  He currently doesn't trust his line... happy feet.  He seems to be second guessing his receivers.  No idea why.  But this will get better - I have no doubt.  Just glad that Skins are still sitting 1st in the division considering the early struggles - still time to get it worked out.. 

 

Go Skins.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Year 1 Cousins in Gruden's system was in the league for 2 seasons.  Year 1 Smith has been in the league for 13 prior.  I don't think anything will be an apple to apple comparison, other than the eye test.

 

I acknowledged that in my post. Nothing is perfect because everything has 1,000 variable and there's no control. I didn't mean for this to turn into a prediction...my point was simply this: 

 

A QB (Cousins) who ultimately turned out to be very productive under Gruden had some struggles in the first 5-6 games in this offense. I hope that our current QB (Smith) who is also struggling in his first 5-6 games has a similar progression to become comparably productive. 

 

That's it. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

The big problem with this is that your taking a 3rd year QB that was the backup and trying to compare him with a 13 year Vet with over 150 starts. I mean one of the selling points with Smith is that he was SO smart, Greden couldn't open the entire playbook to Cousins, blah blah blah. That, and Cousins was a unknown, Alex has a mountain of information on him. He doesn't do that well in traditional NFL offenses, you need to throw a lot of college RPO looks, like he ran so well in college and in KC. Basically, he's not going to run a Gruden offense that well. Gruden will need to infuse a lot of RPO stuff, very similar to what Shanahan to do for Griffin. Griffin was not going to be effective running a drop back passing system. He had to run the RO to be effective.

 

If any Coach was going to get Smith to be comfortable in a rhythm offense, it's going to be Andy Reid. He wasn't able to do that, he had to scheme to Smiths strengths. Jay is going to have to do the same thing if Smith is going to be successful.

 

 

Oh, I know. But I threw it out there because our current "Checkdown Charlie" failed where our others would have succeeded. Checking down!

 

Once again...it's not a problem since I mentioned it in my original comparison. Nothing is completely apples-to-apples, but this is simply a data point I'm looking at. I'm grasping for a comparison that shows how other QBs have done in this offense. Dalton had 6 TDs to 5 INTs averaging 210 yards per game in his first 5 games (but admittedly that's a rookie QB). 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Temper11 said:

 

Yes - that is evident.  But you could have said that about any QB Mahomes would have replaced.  He's making throws and plays that no one makes.  So...

 

Also, the Chiefs offense (apart from the QB) - who were already talented, got better even better in the off season.  In addition to Tyreek Hill, they now have a legit #2 WR in Sammy Watkins - probably would be WR1 on the skins.  In 2017, Smith's WR2 option was Chris Connely and he was injured very early in the season.  So Tyreek Hill and WR3 in 2017 to Tyreek Hill and Sammy Watkins in 2018.  Not exactly Apples to Apples.

 

But still, I'm not suggesting anything be taken away from Mahomes.  The kid looks freaking unbelievable.  Hats off to him. 

 

I'm also not suggesting anyone should be happy with what they've seen from Smith so far this season.  He hasn't played up to his capability yet.  Was hoping there wouldn't be much of a learning curve, but there appears to be - big ass brain or not.  1st half game 1 and 1st half game 3 is what I would say is Smith's typical play.  Not explosive.  Not super exciting.  Just methodical and consistent - move the chains, eat clock, put up points.  When receivers catch the passes in his type of play, it is really effective.  Penalties, sacks and dropped passes really hurt because it puts them off-schedule and behind the chains.  That's when people usually become frustrated with him.  But mostly this season, you haven't seen Smith's game.  Only those 1st half's of 2 games. 

 

The rest has really exaggerated his weaknesses.  He doesn't trust his line... happy feet.  He seems to be second guessing his receivers.  No idea why.  But this will get better - I have no doubt.  Just glad that Skins are still sitting 1st in the division considering the early struggles - still time to get it worked out.. 

 

Go Skins.

 

That's good to hear and I hope it happens.  I could deal with the Arizona and GB version of him.   I haven't watched him a ton in his career but I'd say my biggest surprises are three fold.

 

A.  He has a little Eli in him in the pocket.  You get to him early and he plays scared a little bit from then on.  He feels the pressure before its there. It effects his footwork and he seems to be hesitant to go down the field because he wants to get rid of the ball. 

 

B. I know he has the reputation for checking down.  But I never thought it would be this blatant.

 

C.  He hasn't really run much.  I always thought his legs was part of what made him dangerous when he was at his best.

 

I am hoping those variables are a function of him not being comfortable, yet and he will settle down.

 

 

 

[HOF44]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

B. I know he has the reputation for checking down.  But I never thought it would be this blatant.

 

 

 

 

 

When you have a check down stat actually named after you this should not be that surprising.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

C.  He hasn't really run much.  I always thought his legs was part of what made him dangerous when he was at his best.

 

I am hoping those variables are a function of him not being comfortable, yet and he will settle down.

 

 

 

Good points...in the photos we're analyzing in here, the one thing that popped out is how easily he could have escaped to his right in both cases and at least gotten 5-7 yards. I won't overstate it since I realize he has multiple pairs of eyes on him (guys aren't playing man), but he'd get SOMETHING positive if he wasn't willing to pull the trigger. 

 

I'm pinning my hopes to your conclusion honestly. If this is the QB we're going to have for another 2+ years, we'll need MVP-type RB performances and a 2017 Jags defense to sniff 10 wins. If he can get a little more comfortable and natural within the offense, we might have something. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

When you have a check down stat actually named after you this should not be that surprising.  

 

LOL, yeah the football outsiders guy came on 980 and tried to warn on that front.  He said they labeled a check down "Alex" because his conservatism can be so extreme that according to their metrics no QB checks down to the extent he does regardless of context including third and long. 

 

I have some hope though that the 2017 version of Alex though surfaces.  ?   Maybe this Sunday. 

[Temper11]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's good to hear and I hope it happens.  I could deal with the Arizona and GB version of him.   I haven't watched him a ton in his career but I'd say my biggest surprises are two fold.

 

A.  He has a little Eli in him in the pocket.  You get to him early and he plays scared a little bit from then on.  He feels the pressure before its there.

 

B. I know he has the reputation for checking down.  But I never thought it would be this blatant.

 

I am hoping both variables are a function of him not being comfortable, yet and he will settle down.

 

 

 

 

Response to "A" above:  Yes.  Although I don't think I'd call it scared, but i won't split hairs.  I think his confidence in his legs leads to some of this.  When he gets pressured early and the O line seems to not be up to the task, I think the confidence he has to get positive yardage starts making him look for running lanes earlier than he should and hence - happy feet. 

 

Response to "B" above: Yeah. it can be pretty frustrating at times.  This has to do with what I alluded to above in that it's really important to keep getting positive yards.  Avoid 3rd and long at all cost - so take the higher percentage throws underneath rather than the riskier down field shot.  He really did make strides on this last season, and successfully pushed the ball up-field more, but that could be because he developed trust with Kelce and Hill that he hasn't yet with this new crop of guys.  Again, I'm hoping this gets better. 

 

My biggest disappointment with him so far was actually in the Arizona and GB games surprisingly enough.   (Although I thought he played fine in game 2 as well... I thought that loss was much more on the receivers than on Smith - but that's just me and might be my bias.  Game 4 and 5, Smith was not good. period.)  But my biggest disappointment was the 2nd halves of the Arizona and GB games.  I really had hoped that the "taking the foot off the gas pedal" was Andy Reid and not Smith, but then those 2 games happened (and actually the Carolina game as well) and it seemed like exactly the same script.  Get an early lead and then coast.  I was hoping that Gruden's high flying offense would end that crap, and have been so bummed to see it happen here again. It's the reason why his numbers are always so low when comparing to other QB's.  All the wins that the commentators allude to... pretty much that formula.  He comes out, works the ball down the field in the first half, puts up a couple of TD's and then shuts it down, makes sure he doesn't throw any picks, never puts the defense in a bad way and manages the game to a victory.  I was really hoping that much of that was Reid... maybe not. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Some of this might need to be on Gruden...hear me out. 

 

Smith checks the ball down. We've heard it for years, heard it all off-season, and now have nearly 1/3 of the season of evidence that he'll do it here too. Gruden was able to call plays a certain way in the past because we were actually capable of converting 2nd- and 3rd-and-longs at a decent clip with Cousins. I don't have stats, but I certainly recall negative plays on 1st or 2nd down not completely destroying a drive every time. 

 

With Smith, Gruden might need to adjust. Maybe he needs to find the right set of plays and the philosophy that fits Smith so that we aren't in 2nd-and-14 or 3rd-and-11 that often. Now, I realize no play is designed to lose yards...but even removing penalties which can happen on any play, some are riskier and have a better chance to result in lost yards or sacks or whatever. 

 

I don't WANT this to be necessary...but as we get into late-October, we kind of are who we are. If he can get Smith to meet him halfway, maybe it's incumbent on him to change some things up as well. 

[Veryoldschool]

Can't we just enjoy a win here?  Must we dwell on the negative?  You sad sacks can complain and moan all want but not me, no sir, not me I am walking on the sunny side this week with a little help from Frank:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEsgLzgH_po

[Temper11]

1 minute ago, Veryoldschool said:

Can't we just enjoy a win here?  Must we dwell on the negative?  You sad sacks can complain and moan all want but not me, no sir, not me I am walking on the sunny side this week with a little help from Frank:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEsgLzgH_po

 

Got the song playing now!  Thanks Oldschool! 

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Can't we just enjoy a win here?  Must we dwell on the negative?  You sad sacks can complain and moan all want but not me, no sir, not me I am walking on the sunny side this week with a little help from Frank:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEsgLzgH_po

 

I think Paul beats Frank.

 

 

 

[JSSkinz]

You don't have to be a football genius to know Alex is failing miserably and I'm glad to hear that the team is recognizing that.

 

Jay said in his presser yesterday or the day before Alex was holding the ball too long, locking onto his reads and staying with them too long.

 

Cooley showing you examples and telling everyone not to buy into the fact our WR's aren't getting open.

 

There really is no debate here.

 

I'm gonna say it, Todd Collins = Colt, don't sleep on it, it wouldn't be the first time a journeyman backup has led a team to the playoffs.

 

Things are setting up well for this team when it comes to the schedule and how the rest of the league is doing, we can't waste that.

[Morneblade]

3 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I acknowledged that in my post. Nothing is perfect because everything has 1,000 variable and there's no control. I didn't mean for this to turn into a prediction...my point was simply this: 

 

A QB (Cousins) who ultimately turned out to be very productive under Gruden had some struggles in the first 5-6 games in this offense. I hope that our current QB (Smith) who is also struggling in his first 5-6 games has a similar progression to become comparably productive. 

 

That's it. 

 

The issue is that you're comparing the wrong thing. You want to compare Gruden's scheme, as if it is in some what so markedly different that it has a different learning curve than other NFL offensives, as opposed to a 13 year Vet that has started over 150 games compared to a guy that was a 2nd year player with 1 start. Gruden's system has been called QB friendly by a lot of people.

 

It's not, for instance, AL Saunders ridiculously complex scheme. It's not some hugely difficult NFL offense that is going to have a smart QB with 150+ starts over 13 seasons struggle with it for 1/2 a season by default.

 

3 hours ago, Temper11 said:

 

Yes - that is evident.  But you could have said that about any QB Mahomes would have replaced.  He's making throws and plays that no one makes.  So...

 

I disagree with this. There are a number of QB's that could go into his system and would not "hold it back". There is a difference in maybe not having a arm that can throw the ball 70 yards in the air with a flick, and not holding the offense back. I can think of at least 10 QB's that would have no problem running this offense just as efficiently.

 

3 hours ago, Temper11 said:

Also, the Chiefs offense (apart from the QB) - who were already talented, got better even better in the off season.  In addition to Tyreek Hill, they now have a legit #2 WR in Sammy Watkins - probably would be WR1 on the skins.  In 2017, Smith's WR2 option was Chris Connely and he was injured very early in the season.  So Tyreek Hill and WR3 in 2017 to Tyreek Hill and Sammy Watkins in 2018.  Not exactly Apples to Apples.

 

But not apples to oranges either. It would be one thing if the results so far were like 20% better, but Mahones is obliterating what Alex did there.

 

3 hours ago, Temper11 said:

But still, I'm not suggesting anything be taken away from Mahomes.  The kid looks freaking unbelievable.  Hats off to him. 

 

yeah, he's been much better than I expected.

 

3 hours ago, Temper11 said:

I'm also not suggesting anyone should be happy with what they've seen from Smith so far this season.  He hasn't played up to his capability yet.  Was hoping there wouldn't be much of a learning curve, but there appears to be - big ass brain or not.  1st half game 1 and 1st half game 3 is what I would say is Smith's typical play.  Not explosive.  Not super exciting.  Just methodical and consistent - move the chains, eat clock, put up points.  When receivers catch the passes in his type of play, it is really effective.  Penalties, sacks and dropped passes really hurt because it puts them off-schedule and behind the chains.  That's when people usually become frustrated with him.  But mostly this season, you haven't seen Smith's game.  Only those 1st half's of 2 games. 

 

I agree partially with this. Alex has not played up to his abilities. I think the issue is not that he has having major difficulties with the offense, but more about he's just not that comfortable running Jays offense, period.

 

3 hours ago, Temper11 said:

The rest has really exaggerated his weaknesses.  He currently doesn't trust his line... happy feet.  He seems to be second guessing his receivers.  No idea why.  But this will get better - I have no doubt.  Just glad that Skins are still sitting 1st in the division considering the early struggles - still time to get it worked out.. 

 

Go Skins.

 

I think Jay is going to have to run a lot more RPO for Alex to really shine and be comfortable. If Alex is forced to run a rhythm passing offense, it's not going to work well.