Dear Dan Snyder: We do not like being fans anymore; we tolerate it

[Veryoldschool]

39 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

This is so on point you have no idea.  Snyder is 100 percent of the problem.  Bruce Allen is too incompetent to be part of the problem.  Its giving him way too much credit.  Its like comparing Admiral Veers to Darth Vader

 

Allen is a sock puppet who does Snyder's bidding and serves as a criticism shield.  Snyder will find another when Allen is no longer a credible firewall.

[Skinsinparadise]

I was just listening to a draft podcast from Matt Miller from BR. He goes the Redskins in his view have the worst front office in the NFL.  They worked with Scot's lists last year.  Now its on Doug and Bruce.  Then he goes, he feels bad for Redskins fans during Dan's era.  And its a crappy time to be a Redskins fan considering what the Eagles got cooking and how the Redskins have little to have any faith in.

 

Depressing listen.

[thebluefood]

Regardless of who "the problem" is or not - whether it's Snyder or Allen or even Cerrato once upon a time - I still can't get over the fact that this team is still making money hand over fist.

 

I know we've discussed how it's nigh impossible to lose money owning an NFL franchise these days with profit sharing and the fact that we are, as a nation, consistently "ready for some football" regardless of time or place. But how are the Washington Redskins still making money like this? They're just so mediocre and void of any personality. They're not even the "so bad it's good" kind of football we're seeing in Cleveland or Detroit had back when Matt Millen was the General Manager. The 2008 Lions were hilarious.

 

Remember when Dan Orlovsky ran out of the back of the end zone against the Vikings? I damn near pissed my pants laughing when I first saw that. Stuff like that is part of what makes being a sports fan fun. 

 

Apart from the end of the "Zorn era" like Swinging Gate, we can't even be entertainingly bad. Just plain ol' mediocre. 

[joeken24]

On 2/23/2018 at 6:44 PM, SkinsFTW said:

 

"If the Redskins win a Super Bowl," is like putting a tooth under your pillow and hoping for the tooth fairy to leave you something. 

 

Because if tomorrow (or 5 years from now) you see them winning a super bowl somebody just rickrolled you with a 25+ year old Redskins SB YouTube video. 

 

That doesn't mean Dan Snyder is competent any more than the tooth fairy is real. 

 

 

Am I posting to a Redskins forum? I mean, really.....?

You really think the possibility of the Redskins winning a SB is no more than the possibility that a tooth fairy exist? 

If that be the case, and you watch the games, listen to Redskins radio, post to site regularly, and whatever other Redskins centric thing you do with your life, than insanity is not far off my friend. Unless you enjoy this ****. 

 

 

 

[samy316]

51 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

Am I posting to a Redskins forum? I mean, really.....?

You really think the possibility of the Redskins winning a SB is no more than the possibility that a tooth fairy exist? 

If that be the case, and you watch the games, listen to Redskins radio, post to site regularly, and whatever other Redskins centric thing you do with your life, than insanity is not far off my friend. Unless you enjoy this ****. 

 

 

 

 

Can you prove him wrong?  We legitimately have the worst FO in the league, and we are going to start a 34 year old middle of the road QB for the next 2+ years.  We have no offensive weapons to speak of, and we have a mediocre at best defense (more like sucky).  Where exactly do you see a Super Bowl contending team in that jumbled mess?  Do you REALLY think we're an upper echelon team in the NFC?  Are we up there with the Packers, Vikings, Saints, Rams, Falcons, Eagles & Cowboys?  The answer is HELL NO.  We can't even win in our own damn division year in and year out, and we now downgraded in the QB department.  Is Alex Smith (who I have nothing against by the way), going to replicate his best season next year?  There's a big difference from having Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce & Kareem Hunt at your disposal to the crap we're currently fielding.

 

Another depressing point to make, is that last year's draft was mostly done by Scot McCloughan BEFORE he was let go.  They essentially used his draft board to navigate their way through this past draft.  Now that Scot is no longer here, we have to deal with the likelihood of Bruce the Dummy and his equally unqualified lackey Doug Williams handling all of the duties of drafting.  If you thought we were close to contending before, you're going to be in for a big, and unpleasant surprise in the coming future.

[joeken24]

19 hours ago, samy316 said:

 

Can you prove him wrong?  We legitimately have the worst FO in the league, and we are going to start a 34 year old middle of the road QB for the next 2+ years.  We have no offensive weapons to speak of, and we have a mediocre at best defense (more like sucky).  Where exactly do you see a Super Bowl contending team in that jumbled mess?  Do you REALLY think we're an upper echelon team in the NFC?  Are we up there with the Packers, Vikings, Saints, Rams, Falcons, Eagles & Cowboys?  The answer is HELL NO.  We can't even win in our own damn division year in and year out, and we now downgraded in the QB department.  Is Alex Smith (who I have nothing against by the way), going to replicate his best season next year?  There's a big difference from having Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce & Kareem Hunt at your disposal to the crap we're currently fielding.

 

Another depressing point to make, is that last year's draft was mostly done by Scot McCloughan BEFORE he was let go.  They essentially used his draft board to navigate their way through this past draft.  Now that Scot is no longer here, we have to deal with the likelihood of Bruce the Dummy and his equally unqualified lackey Doug Williams handling all of the duties of drafting.  If you thought we were close to contending before, you're going to be in for a big, and unpleasant surprise in the coming future.

Its not about proving him wrong. Fact is, I can't prove **** in the future!. Non of us control that ****. We can't predict **** either. My point is if you are predisposed to thinking there is no chance for the Skins to ever win a SB, why bother posting, watching, listening, buying Redskins ****, ek ****ing cetera?

Makes not sense to me. 

Listen to what you're defending. You're actually referencing the tooth fairy and asking "me" to prove something.

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

Since Snyder has become an owner:

 

The Rams won 2 Superbowls, albeit early in his tenure. The 49ers lost a Superbowl a few years ago when Harbaugh was coach. Seahawks went 1-2 in Superbowls, including a recent loss to the Pats. The Cardinals lost a Superbowl in the late 00's. 

 

The Raiders lost a Superbowl in the early 00's.  The Broncos went 1-1 during the recent Manning era. 

 

The Colts went 1-1 in Superbowls, in their Manning era of the 00's. The Titans lost a Superbowl back in Dan's first year.

 

The Bucs won a Superbowl early in the 00's. The Panthers went 0-2 in Superbowls, including a loss to Manning's Broncos. The Falcons, choked in the Superbowl vs. the Pats 2 years ago.  The Saints won against Manning's Colts in 2009.

 

The Bears lost to Manning's Colts in the Mid 00's.  Packers won a Superbowl, at the beginning of this decade. 

 

The Steelers went 2-1 in Superbowl, last appearance was losing to the Packers.  The Ravens won 2 Superbowls, last appearance early this decade over the 49ers.

 

The Patriots went 5-3, of course losing to the Eagles early this month.

 

The Giants went 2-1, last winning against the Pats earlier this decade. The Eagles went 1-1  and of course are current Superbowl Champs.

 

Look at that. 19 teams have had at least an appearance in the Superbowl since Dan became owner. I said in my earlier post, that 20 teams have had more winning seasons than us.  Only the Cowboys haven't made an appearance in the Superbowl.

 

In the NFC West:  The Seahawks can still compete for a Superbowl. The 49ers and Rams window is opening. If the Cards get a QB, maybe one last shot before their window closes. 

 

In the AFC West:  The Chiefs will be playoff contenders at least.  Broncos get a QB & they can be Superbowl contenders again.  Chargers window is closing soon. Gruden will have the Raiders contending a Superbowl.   

 

In the AFC South:  If Luck can come back, Colts can become contenders.  Texans window is open, as long as Deshawn Watson bounces back from his injury. Titans window is also open under Mariotta. Jags will be at least playoff contenders, not sure their Superbowl contenders under Bortles. Though he almost got them there, this year. 

 

In the NFC South:  The Panthers and Falcons windows are open.  Saints make one more push under Brees before he retires.  Bucs needs a new coach, before they can do anything.

 

In the NFC North:  So go Rodgers, so go the Packers.  Vikings settle on a QB and they are Superbowl contenders.  I think Lions will be more the same.  I don't see the Beats building a Superbowl contender.

 

In the AFC North:  As long has Roethlisberger plays, Steelers are contender.  Bengals aren't doing much under Lewis.  Browns are a few years away. Ravens window is closing.

 

In the NFC East:  The Eagles window is open.  The Cowboys may also have a window, if they got a non-puppet coach. The Giants are under construction.

The Redskins?

 

What about the Redskins.  Does one really see the Skins are building something? The trade for Smith is a save Allen & Gruden's jobs move.  Maybe Smith gets us a playoff birth or two; before he's done. Do we really trust our front office to build a team for Alex?  The window is open or opening for so many teams in the NFC; does one really think the Skins can really compete in the NFC? Heck, we can't even compete in our own division and that's half of the required games. Does one really have that vibe, the Skins will be among the elite of the NFC?  Does one think, we even have a plan to become an elite NFC team? I don't sense that?  I sense stop gape measures.  If I were Seahawks, 49ers, Rams, Panthers,Falcons,Packers,Vikings,Eagles fan; I would be confident. Saints & Cards fans, know they may get one more shot before it ends. Cowboys fans know, they need someone other than Garrett as coach.  Allen & Willams are going to build a team to compete with that?  Gruden is going to be able to coach well, against those teams.  I'm not even factoring, can we also build a team to compete with the best of the AFC.     19 years of history tells us, not to have faith or confidence for Dan to build us an elite team.  He has failed miserably.  In that time frame, some teams have risen and fallen and risen again.  All we do is alternative from being absolutely bad to just being mediocre.  We have 19 years of experience to form the opinions we have developed.  A superbowl title  under Snyder, if it were to happen; would just be fluke and nothing more.  Say, we win a Superbowl next year; we would then spend the next 19 years in misery.

[Darrell Green Fan]

By all accounts Snyder wants to win.  Which is why it boggles the mind that he thinks he can accomplish that with personnel men with little accomplishments and an under funded scouting staff.

[88Comrade2000]

Also, Gruden is entering Year 5. What on earth have we built under him?

[Warhead36]

43 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Also, Gruden is entering Year 5. What on earth have we built under him?

At the very least we had a franchise QB we developed and a damn good passing game built around him. Now that's been gutted.

 

Get ready for 4-12.

[onedrop]

4 hours ago, joeken24 said:

Its not about proving him wrong. Fact is, I can't prove **** in the future!. Non of us control that ****. We can't predict **** either. My point is if you are predisposed to thinking there is no chance for the Skins to ever win a SB, why bother posting, watching, listening, buying Redskins ****, ek ****ing cetera?

Makes not sense to me. 

Listen to what you're defending. You're actually referencing the tooth fairy and asking "me" to prove something.

 

 

for most true fans, especially ones that predate snyder, there isn't a choice about being involved with the team, even if the greater organization is despised. one can love a ship but not the ones sailing it. 

[SkinsFTW]

5 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

By all accounts Snyder wants to win.  Which is why it boggles the mind that he thinks he can accomplish that with personnel men with little accomplishments and an under funded scouting staff.

 

 

The 2nd sentence proves that winning isn't the priority, and it has consistently not been the priority since Dan Snyder bought the team.

 

"Wants to win" is about as useful as " wants to stop peeing in the bed " which is still almost inevitable while Snyder wanting to win is just hilarious after 20 years.

 

If your kid still peed in the bed after 20 years you wouldn't be excited about it ever changing and would not expect anything different. They'd wear depends rather than pampers but no change would be expected. 

 

I might want to win the tour de france but that doesn't mean much if I show up on a mountain bike with a beer belly. People are just going to have to laugh, especially if I did it 20 years in a row. It'd be a running joke. Just like the Redskins owner and so called Team President trying to win with practiced incompetence. Being able to ride a bike just like anyone else is meaningless when you have fat knobby tires, the wrong gearing, and a beer gut. 

 

Somebody should do a graph of "Wants to win" vs "Wants to make money" to show that one of these has consistently happened year after year after year and the other has never once happened at the level of 11 wins. Not once.

 

Those guys running the Redskins really want to win though 

[Darrell Green Fan]

5 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

 

The 2nd sentence proves that winning isn't the priority, and it has consistently not been the priority since Dan Snyder bought the team.

 

"Wants to win" is about as useful as " wants to stop peeing in the bed " which is still almost inevitable while Snyder wanting to win is just hilarious after 20 years.

 

If your kid still peed in the bed after 20 years you wouldn't be excited about it ever changing and would not expect anything different. They'd wear depends rather than pampers but no change would be expected. 

 

I might want to win the tour de france but that doesn't mean much if I show up on a mountain bike with a beer belly. People are just going to have to laugh, especially if I did it 20 years in a row. It'd be a running joke. Just like the Redskins owner and so called Team President trying to win with practiced incompetence. Being able to ride a bike just like anyone else is meaningless when you have fat knobby tires, the wrong gearing, and a beer gut. 

 

Somebody should do a graph of "Wants to win" vs "Wants to make money" to show that one of these has consistently happened year after year after year and the other has never once happened at the level of 11 wins. Not once.

 

Those guys running the Redskins really want to win though 

 

But he clearly has spent the money that would lead you to believe he wants to win.  If he was the guy with the beer gut at the Tour de France, he would have the lowest payroll in the league and never signed big bonuses for free agents.  He has spent a ton on players, just too stupid to understand investing in scouts is a better plan.  

[bedlamVR]

16 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

 

What about the Redskins.  Does one really see the Skins are building something? The trade for Smith is a save Allen & Gruden's jobs move.  Maybe Smith gets us a playoff birth or two; before he's done. Do we really trust our front office to build a team for Alex?  The window is open or opening for so many teams in the NFC; does one really think the Skins can really compete in the NFC? Heck, we can't even compete in our own division and that's half of the required games. Does one really have that vibe, the Skins will be among the elite of the NFC?  Does one think, we even have a plan to become an elite NFC team? I don't sense that?  I sense stop gape measures.  If I were Seahawks, 49ers, Rams, Panthers,Falcons,Packers,Vikings,Eagles fan; I would be confident - 

5

 

You here is an odd statement - Are the Redskins building something - Umm yes we are. We are not as was the Redskins way lurching from one philosophy to another. We are stable and consistent. Over the last few drafts, we have consistently tried to feed the offensive and defensive lines and we will try bring guys through as UDFA in terms of succession planning rather than filling the depth with other peoples cast offs... and you can see the succession planning at WR, CB, OL etc etc. It is not going as quick as some people might like but it is sustainable . 

 

Since Bruce has been here he has tried to boost the scouting department - a move that was initially snubbed by The Shanahans but is the reason he went to outside consultants - and will again this year and has promoted guys from within and expanded the scouting and front office as a whole. 

 

I am not going to get into a Cousins debate here - But was he a franchise QB ? A Franchise QB is a guy that makes everyone around him better - but he has to as he consumes a huge portion of the salary cap - Guys like GB Rogers, NE - Brady are the guys you can say absolutely we can plug any parts around them and they are going to be awesome - but Brady, for example, plays for less so NE can give him the tools he needs. 

 

There are other QBs who succeed despite the rest of the team - Russell Wilson,  Andrew Luck spring to mind - there will be others - You might want to but Drew Brees in here - great QBs but the rest of the team - not so great really - to be honest . .

 

Looking at Wilson - For all the praise Jon Schnider gets - how has he not been able to give Wilson an offense to go around him? The offensive line has been horrific for years ... 

 

Which kind of brings me to this  "If I were Seahawks, 49ers, Rams, Panthers,Falcons,Packers,Vikings,Eagles fan; I would be confident -" 

 

Why - the terrible redskins beat the Seahawks just last year - in Seattle - with a beat up roster ... Based on 2017 why would you be confident ? Because they stumbled to 9-7 and missed the playoffs ? 

 

Why would you be confident in the 49ers - Jed Yorke still heads the team and is a weird gangster wannabe who ran off their last decent head coach - they won 5 games under Jimmy G last year - and Jimmy G is a very good QB - and i like the defensive line (although Foster may not play this year- - because he is an idiot) - but those games came when the team was playing for nothing . Why would there be faith that  the York family would not screw it up again ?  (The woeful Redskins beat them last year too) 

 

Rams - Yes last  year was AWESOME - and they have talent on both sides of the ball - The HC and DC are very good at getting the most out of their players - But with Philips - i dunno there is always this one year wonderment with him - things become too easy and he sits back maybe (what ever the reason he never seems to stay in one place too long) - I think McVay is always going to put up a good offense - but is that enough - when you still have Les Sneed buying the grocieries ? (the Redskins beat these guys too) 

 

Someone once said they would rather be the Giants than the skins - because who woud not want to be in a position where they are jammed up tight against the cap - have a 38 year old entrenched QB who is clearly declining (but not retiring) - they have spent pick after pick after pick on the offenisve line - and its still a seive they have no feature running back - the WR is a diva in the worst sense of the word - in adversity the team could play about 6 competitive Quarters of football all season and that was because they were so bussy stabbing each other in the back - and the teams they beat mostly beat themselves with terrible QBs throwing multiple interceptions in meaningless games (redskins lost to them -) . 

 

I can go on and on - But my overall point is this - There are problems everywhere if you want to look for them - we are not unique - And the national press are always going to use the Redskins as a punch line because it is conveinent - because yes we have been bad - but the perception is we are terrible and that stain will not go away UNTIL we start winning in the post season and winning on a regular basis (which we have been in that borring but respectable 7 to 9 wins braket for a couple of years now - ) Playoffs are the target - because once you hit the playoffs anything can happen . 

 

But if all you can see is the negative - and nothing good - and it is spoiling your enjoyment of the game - to the point at which you activly root for the failure of the team you claim to support - then maybe it is time for another hobby .... or at least leave those who want to root for the team (however stupid or futile that may appear to you) alone ... please ... (please ?) 

 

[MassSkinsFan]

21 hours ago, joeken24 said:

Its not about proving him wrong. Fact is, I can't prove **** in the future!. Non of us control that ****. We can't predict **** either. My point is if you are predisposed to thinking there is no chance for the Skins to ever win a SB, why bother posting, watching, listening, buying Redskins ****, ek ****ing cetera?

Makes not sense to me. 

Listen to what you're defending. You're actually referencing the tooth fairy and asking "me" to prove something.

 

For many of us, it's because we were fans before Danny bought the team. Dan is clearly not a winner, and chances are very good he won't ever be. Why should we lower our standards to accept this situation?

[thebluefood]

I feel like I'm saying the same stuff over and over again but only because I'm not sure I'm completely getting my point across. Admittedly, I haven't been writing as much as I used to so I've probably lost my touch. Let me try again and I'm going to try to make myself as clear as possible. 

 

1.) The 'Skins have been "rebuilding" for 26 years now. That's the entire Unrestricted Free Agency era. The team's been through two owners, played in two stadiums, and had nine different head coaches (one's been here twice). They haven't won more than 10 games since they won their last Super Bowl. Every expansion team within that time frame has been able to do it. The friggin' Browns were able to do it in 1994 with a first-time head coach and an owner who had a foot out the door.

 

This is not only unacceptable but it doesn't even make sense. That shouldn't be possible in modern North American sports yet here we are. And fine, that's not all on Dan Snyder; he took over the team in the middle of this but he's been majority owner for nearly 20 years. He's had plenty of time to right this ship and get the team out of mediocrity.

 

2.) Could we please cut it out with the "well if you're so upset why don't you just go root for another team" discourse? I can understand someone being annoyed with a spoiled out-of-state Steelers fan (whose "uncle" just so happened to move to Erie in 1974 which is totally why he became a fan, you guys) who considers a 12-4 season with a conference championship game loss a "failure" of incredible proportion that requires a full overhaul of the organization but for God's sake, we're talking about a team that hasn't so much as made it to the conference championship game since the George H.W. Bush administration.

 

I'm not even actively supporting this team at present (that's another story for another day) but asking me to stop being a 'Skins fan is one step away from asking me not to have red hair or brown eyes. Once again, this is one of the few major, civic institutions native Washingtonians have that isn't labeled the "federal" or "national." This kept me connected to those roots after I moved from the D.C. area as a kid. This is also one of the few "legacies" I have to share with the paternal side of my family since my grandfather died when I was a young boy. So don't you get on your high horse and tell me to stop being a "bad fan" or a hater. This ****'s, almost literally, in my DNA. If it weren't, I probably wouldn't follow the NFL at all and I certainly wouldn't give a damn about the 'Skins.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

Playoffs are the target - because once you hit the playoffs anything can happen . 

That is true if in the event you really build up at least one unit to be elite.  I don't think just eeking in as a wildcard without something like a dominant pass rush like the Giants did is a recipe for success.  In order to keep getting cracks at the playoffs, you need forward thinking FO's that make moves in advance and project appropriately.  Clearly, we disagree on this FO's ability to do that.

 

5 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

But if all you can see is the negative - and nothing good - and it is spoiling your enjoyment of the game - to the point at which you activly root for the failure of the team you claim to support - then maybe it is time for another hobby .... or at least leave those who want to root for the team (however stupid or futile that may appear to you) alone ... please ... (please ?) 

This is an overplayed hand by the FO supporters.  Picking up Zach Brown on the cheap for example was a good move, among others.  But I find it hard to throw a party for good moves in the wake of so many other bad moves.  I don't think you'll find anyone here, even the biggest Allen/Snyder bashers, not ever have anything nice to say about moves the team makes.  But it's about the entire dish, not just a few ingredients.

 

I also don't see anyone actively rooting for the team's failure.  Discussing the likelihood that the team will fail is much different than actively rooting for it.  Nobody craps on you guys for rooting on the team.  But when I tell you that water is wet and you disagree, it's going to get ugly.

[Cliffmark1]

a subtopic could be “we aren’t redskins fans anymore, we are fans of extremeskins” 

[Spearfeather]

6 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But when I tell you that water is wet and you disagree, it's going to get ugly.

 

Almost no one is debating that the " water is wet ". Some people understand that repeatedly stating " the water is wet, " ... is never going to make it dry. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

Almost no one is debating that the " water is wet ". Some people understand that repeatedly stating " the water is wet, " ... is never going to make it dry. 

 

Tell “almost no one” to admit it and move on, rather than argue and whine, and there wouldnt be any reason to repeatedly state it.

[CommanderDOOM]

8 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

....Danny bought the team. Dan is clearly not a winner, and chances are very good he won't ever be.....

 

Dan is a billionaire owner of his childhood favorite team.......#winning

[Spearfeather]

43 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Tell “almost no one” to admit it and move on, rather than argue and whine, and there wouldnt be any reason to repeatedly state it.

It will be repeated here, regardless.

And I'm sure they have, whoever they are, but some others don't really want those people to move on. They want them to stay stuck in the same spot they are in.

[joeken24]

8 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

 

For many of us, it's because we were fans before Danny bought the team. Dan is clearly not a winner, and chances are very good he won't ever be. Why should we lower our standards to accept this situation?

I would think a billionaire has had to have one or two wins under their belt, right?

 

What exactly is a winner? Hell, Bill Belichick himself was not a winner until Brady came along. Nobody wins on their own. Is Kirk Cousins a winner? No  

 

Here's a news flash, your standards have been low for a very long time if you're still a Redskins fan. I'm a fan too, so I know. But I refuse to blame one person. Nobody wins alone. 

 

Hell, based on your observation, if the Redskins win the SB, you'll have not choice but to give Dan all the credit. 

[joeken24]

On 2/25/2018 at 7:38 PM, onedrop said:

for most true fans, especially ones that predate snyder, there isn't a choice about being involved with the team, even if the greater organization is despised. one can love a ship but not the ones sailing it. 

Understandable. 

But again, the idea that a tooth fairy has a better chance of existing than the Redskins do of winning a SB.....(????)

Maybe saying the Browns have a better chance could be considered more realistic.

[Nerm]

I wouldn't get too down about the future of the Skins.  I understand the frustration with the front office, but things can change quickly.  I read that Frank Gore chose Indy over the Eagles because he thought the Colts had a chance to win a Super Bowl and Phily didn't.  Any team can turn things around unexpectedly, including Washington.  There is always hope, even when things look bleak.