abdcskins Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Sure sounds familiar to someone else. With that said, it is possible he has success here. But he will absolutely need a running back and a defense, like everyone else that "kills it". Believe me, I'm just as battered as you. My expectations of this team the past decade plus have been 8-8 at best. All my vigor and enthusiasm have almost disappeared. But I'll always be a huge fan. I don't see a huge disparity between Cousins and Smith. I think Smith lacks in arm strength but he might be a little smarter mentally and see the field better. He also scrambles more. You're right though, Skins need a running game and lock down defense. A #1 WR too imo and possibly a guard. We are a ways away from contending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 30 minutes ago, abdcskins said: People have underestimated Alex Smith his whole career. It's possible he comes to DC and kills it. It's like they haven't watched the past 13 years of the dudes career. 7 minutes ago, abdcskins said: think Smith lacks in arm strength but he might be a little smarter mentally and see the field better. A QB that started 16 games without a single TD pass to a WR the entire season is a guy who sees the field better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumplestilskin Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Not sure if this has been posted. https://scout.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Heres-How-The-Denver-Broncos-Could-Acquire-Kirk-Cousins-Right-Now-114482337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky52Mc Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 6 hours ago, Bonez3 said: Maybe so, but bottom line, it's the current situation. The situation benefits the Redskins. Art of War... 'do what your enemy doesn't want'. The enemy doesn't want us tagging him By weak I mean't it's just generally incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rocky52Mc said: By weak I mean't it's just generally incorrect. I didn't see anything technically incorrect about it. My approach in this situation would be sacrifice the first 5 days of free agency while Kurt is under transition tag (this period includes us matching, TEMPORARILY, any teams that better tag offer). It's no big loss because, frankly, there aren't many high value targets anyway or the Skins simply aren't in play. After 5-7 days, which there is still a lot of value left every year recently in FA, the trade is finalized (teams are crapping themselves at this point to land Kurt) and we have a 2nd rounder easy (probably a 1st). By day 8 of FA we have Kurt off the books and recouped a higher draft pick in THIS YEAR than we traded for Smith. This isn't rocket surgery. We still have near 35 mil in cap space. We'll resign the scrub FA's we have already have (Murphy, Foster already done, Grant, etc) and our draft picks. Lets get this done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 30 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said: It's like they haven't watched the past 13 years of the dudes career. You are acting like he is completely incompetent. He has lead some teams to some solid seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBooger Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, abdcskins said: People have underestimated Alex Smith his whole career. It's possible he comes to DC and kills it. He's been in the league for 13 years. He's had a better supporting cast than what we'd be offering him and he hasn't done much with it outside of wildcard appearances. What makes you think he can do better here? We don't have a Hunt, we don't have a Hill, and we certainly don't have a Travis Kelce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 minute ago, BurgundyBooger said: He's been in the league for 13 years. He's had a better supporting cast than what we'd be offering him and he hasn't done much with it. What makes you think he can do better here? We don't have a Hunt, we don't have a Hill, and we certainly don't have a Travis Kelce. Hasn't done much with it? If not for a freak bounce on a kick return he would have won an NFC championship game and played in the Superbowl. He went to a 2-14 team and took them to the playoffs 4 years out of 5. He is not Tom Brady but he is as good as Kirk and better than anyone else we have had under center since Rypien. Some people are so determined to be mad about this it wouldn't matter if he was Tom Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 5 hours ago, Long n Left said: And, if Smith leads the Skins to the playoffs each of the next 3 years while the Browns continue to flounder in mediocrity, will that still be the narrative? Not trying to be a prick here, just playing devil's advocate. Seems many have already made up their mind one way or another. I'm gonna let things play out. Just thinking in terms of patterns, @Long n Left. This team can't seem to shake undermining its own prospects for success. I like Smith, but I wouldn't have given a soon-to-be 34-year old QB that kind of guaranteed contract, while putting him behind our offensive line (he won't be buying LG or RT any steak dinners). And to top it all off by giving up one of our more promising young defensive guys just makes it more difficult for me to think of this as a good deal. Many a team have been had by Reid and his QB shuffle; we were already burned once and apparently didn't learn our lesson. Like you, hell, I hope this works out and we make it to the playoffs consistently under Smith, for however much longer he plays. I'm just tired of these kinds of moves from our front office. You don't jettison talent like Fuller. There's a reason the Browns wouldn't deal any of their players in addition to the 2nd rounder they offered the Chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBooger Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 11 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: Hasn't done much with it? If not for a freak bounce on a kick return he would have won an NFC championship game and played in the Superbowl. He went to a 2-14 team and took them to the playoffs 4 years out of 5. He is not Tom Brady but he is as good as Kirk and better than anyone else we have had under center since Rypien. Some people are so determined to be mad about this it wouldn't matter if he was Tom Brady. You've convinced me. Now all we need is a probowl WR, running back, and tight end. We'll be in the wildcard game in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Well if Reed could stay fit there is your tight end, Crowder is going to step up so all we need to do is draft that running back. See the glass is half full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said: You've convinced me. Now all we need is a probowl WR, running back, and tight end. We'll be in the wildcard game in no time. You forgot the top 5 defense with Justin Houston and Eric Berry and a division with bumbling teams like the Chargers and Raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: Some people are so determined to be mad about this it wouldn't matter if he was Tom Brady. No, there's just nothing exciting about this because we know what we're getting. What we're getting is pretty much what the AntiKirk contingent believes Kirk is, with W/L record as an outlier. But it's not even arguable that Smith has had a much better supporting cast which severely marginalizes that outlier. Smith is also an unknown in this offense and will take time to gain confidence and build rapport. Atleast with Kirk, he's got time already invested in this system and personnel, and could potentially get better. Atleast with a rookie, it's an unknown that you can hope will be awesome and keep 20M to spend elsewhere. I dont even dislike Smith. I just don't find the move to be exciting given the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortisBetts Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 41 minutes ago, Bonez3 said: I didn't see anything technically incorrect about it. My approach in this situation would be sacrifice the first 5 days of free agency while Kurt is under transition tag (this period includes us matching, TEMPORARILY, any teams that better tag offer). It's no big loss because, frankly, there aren't many high value targets anyway or the Skins simply aren't in play. After 5-7 days, which there is still a lot of value left every year recently in FA, the trade is finalized (teams are crapping themselves at this point to land Kurt) and we have a 2nd rounder easy (probably a 1st). By day 8 of FA we have Kurt off the books and recouped a higher draft pick in THIS YEAR than we traded for Smith. This isn't rocket surgery. We still have near 35 mil in cap space. We'll resign the scrub FA's we have already have (Murphy, Foster already done, Grant, etc) and our draft picks. Lets get this done you are living in a fantasy world thinking this teams front office is capable of pulling off any kind of black magic like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Bonez3 said: I didn't see anything technically incorrect about it. My approach in this situation would be sacrifice the first 5 days of free agency while Kurt is under transition tag (this period includes us matching, TEMPORARILY, any teams that better tag offer). It's no big loss because, frankly, there aren't many high value targets anyway or the Skins simply aren't in play. After 5-7 days, which there is still a lot of value left every year recently in FA, the trade is finalized (teams are crapping themselves at this point to land Kurt) and we have a 2nd rounder easy (probably a 1st). By day 8 of FA we have Kurt off the books and recouped a higher draft pick in THIS YEAR than we traded for Smith. This isn't rocket surgery. We still have near 35 mil in cap space. We'll resign the scrub FA's we have already have (Murphy, Foster already done, Grant, etc) and our draft picks. Lets get this done What if the deal the Skins match has a $30 million signing bonus, which hits the minute you trade him. Any team can sign him to a contract that would make the Skins unable to trade him for more than a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderDOOM Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Man, folks round here got Stockholm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, rumplestilskin said: Not sure if this has been posted. https://scout.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Heres-How-The-Denver-Broncos-Could-Acquire-Kirk-Cousins-Right-Now-114482337 That seems like the scenario I laid out earlier. Except I said, rather than a "sign and trade" we'd agree to a trade based on the condition they could sign him. So, we'd give them permission to talk to him, he could go there and be recruited and we'd get the compensation when/if he agreed to a deal with them. The problem with that sign and trade idea is that he'd just be negotiating with us. Yeah, we could agree to the contract Denver wanted to give him, but he wouldn't deal with Denver on anything but the money. I doubt Kirk goes along with that. I don't see why he would. Either way, I don't believe the compensation would be significant. Denver would basically be buying the right to talk to him month early. 1 hour ago, Nerm said: What if the deal the Skins match has a $30 million signing bonus, which hits the minute you trade him. Any team can sign him to a contract that would make the Skins unable to trade him for more than a year. That is so freaky. I was just gonna post the same thing, right down to the 30 mil figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: E. should be interesting to see the anti-Kirkers on this one considering the criticism of Alex Smith is just about identical to everything the critics say about Kirk. They are almost the mirror player in that regard. It's like we got rid of a navy blue shirt and picked up an older blue shirt off of the same rack. That is from the haters perspective. Not mine. You're better than that SIP. Speaking as an "anti-Kirker" I actually agree with you that on the field Smith and Cousins are mirror players. I'm hoping that Smith doesn't have the brain farts that Cousins tends to in pressure situations but certainly playing the game they are very similar. And that may well be what Gruden wants as a QB. Personally (and I am not sure about the others) I dislike Kirk for the whole wanting to be the most expensive player, God told me to play on one-year deals, never accepting responsibility for his actions etc.etc that just rubs me up the wrong way. Smith does indeed come across as a classy person and I am looking forward to having similar levels of play but without the circus and expecting to be paid a fortune for the pleasure. It's about character and money for me, not Cousin's (or Smith's) actual skills as a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Chiefs complete season with no wide receiver touchdown catches Talking about checkdowns !. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 9 hours ago, SkinsFTW said: He's been traded twice by 2 different coaching staffs now, who both drafted replacements because he's not very good and is actually all of the things that antikirks said about KC the past couple years. Except he actually had talent around him at every position on offense. At best he's Scott Brunell 2.0 but its actually going to be hilarious watching all these pro Alex trade guys turn on him after about 1/4 of the next season because he's just not the QB who will make the difference in any games. They could have signed Jason Campbell for nothing I'm not massively pro or anti Alex Smith the player - like many others, I think it's a bit of a wash at QB. In the same way, I was never massively anti-Kirk Cousins as a player, I think they're both decent, competent QBs. My main knock on Kirk as a player is his mentality - I don't think he has that competitive edge, I don't think he's a leader and I think he goes into himself when the pressure is on or we're in a losing situation (hence several of the boneheaded INTs he has thrown). Overall - as I said, I like Kirk Cousins the player, he's better than anything else we've had for a long time and one of the better QBs in the league (but probably more in the 10-15 range than top 10). I don't think Kirk has as much upside as many on here project, I don't think he'll ever be elite and I don't think he'll ever win the SB unless he's on a stacked team. I like Alex Smith's mentality better but I am under no illusions that he will dramatically improve the team compared to Cousins. My issue with Kirk was mainly with him as a person, rather than him as a player. I think he's duplicitous, talks out of both sides of his mouth and had no interest in being in Washington unless he was being paid stupid money for at least the last 2 years. I have no problem with a player wanting to leave, the Redskins are a job to them, and our FO are a damn circus however if that's your position then have some stones and force a trade, don't grab the money and then try and sell it with some bull**** about how God told you to grab the money and you love the Redskins but you're not even going to bother trying to secure a long term deal but you definitely want to stay here long term. Own it, say you want out, don't sign the tag and force us to rescind it like Norman did etc etc. How much of that is legitimate is probably questionable because in reality to be absolutely fair, if I look really objectively at this, I think a lot of my dislike for him as a person would probably be better aimed at McCartney for driving a lot of the situation, but Kirk didn't have to go along with it in the way he did. I get that he is looking out for himself but don't sit there saying you want to be a Redskin when you patently have no interest in that. I DO NOT GIVE OUR FO A FREE PASS ON THIS. Just to be really clear about that, the FO handled the situation all wrong, they're all idiots, and I would have absolutely nothing but joy if they were all fired tomorrow - but it takes two to tango and I'm sick of Kirk getting a pass over the way he handled it too, just because he's the best QB we've had in a long time. My take on it as an "anti-Kirker" is that he probably took more criticism than he was due, but he put himself in a situation where he refused to sign a deal unless it was ludicrous, tried (and apparently succeeded with many) to play the victim then threw several bonehead INTs and choked in every game the pressure was on. Look at his MNF and primetime records - they suck. That doesn't make him a terrible QB, but it makes it a lot harder to see his good points when there's a whole bunch of drama going on and he's demanding elite money and stinking the joint up every time he has to play in a high-stakes game. Do I think Kirk is a bad QB? No. Do I think he can be successful? Yes, in the right situation. Do I want him as QB of my team? Yes, but only if the situation is right, and the situation hasn't been right here for a long time. Do I want him leading the locker-room? No I don't think he has the mentality to lead. Too fragile. Do I want to pay him $30mill per year? Hell no - think you'll find a lot of the anti-kirkers are not actually anti-kirk, they're anti-kirk-being-paid-absurd-money whch is about my take on things. I'd have him as QB for a reasonable rate but if it's a choice between him for one year and Smith on a LTD, even for the same money, given everything that's gone on - I would take Smith purely to escape the drama and provide some stability at QB, and I think the production differential is probably minimal. Looking to the future - I'm becoming a massive fan of Alex Smith the person. Like I said, I think talent wise it's pretty much a wash, but I think he will be a healing force here in DC and have a huge impact in the community, which is needed after the years of fanbase division over RG3 vs Kirk and Captain Kirk vs Kirk's a scrub. I think he will cause me a lot less rage than Cousins because he's given me a different set of values to look at him through. Kirk was always about the money - "You want $30mill a year to throw dumbass INTs like that?!?!?!" has come out my mouth a few times in the last two years. Alex won't throw as many INTs for a start, but when he does, it's more a perspective of OK - that's what happened, you are on a reasonable deal and you're a good dude. He's going to get more of a pass because he doesn't have the same baggage attached, he's not making diva demands to be paid stupid money and there's no bridges been burned but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly massively pro-Alex over Kirk as a player, it's just a product of circumstance. I'll be frustrated in exactly the same way when we go 3 and out when down 6 points with 1:52 on the clock or whatever, but I won't have the same animosity towards Smith when that happens because he has a clean slate. I hope all that makes sense - I'm taking the time to try and put some of my perspective into things as I think a lot of people who aren't sorry to see Kirk walk for the contract he'll end up with are being painted as being pro-FO and Anti-Kirk at any cost and that's certainly not my take on the situation even though I fall into the camp being happy to see him walk out the door and have the circus be over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, UK Skins said: You're better than that SIP. Speaking as an "anti-Kirker" I actually agree with you that on the field Smith and Cousins are mirror players. I'm hoping that Smith doesn't have the brain farts that Cousins tends to in pressure situations but certainly playing the game they are very similar. And that may well be what Gruden wants as a QB. Personally (and I am not sure about the others) I dislike Kirk for the whole wanting to be the most expensive player, God told me to play on one-year deals, never accepting responsibility for his actions etc.etc that just rubs me up the wrong way. Smith does indeed come across as a classy person and I am looking forward to having similar levels of play but without the circus and expecting to be paid a fortune for the pleasure. It's about character and money for me, not Cousin's (or Smith's) actual skills as a QB. I've just read this after making my long post on the exact same points. Just to be clear to everyone else, we are not the same person - might have to change my username! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordranger76 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 7 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said: You've convinced me. Now all we need is a probowl WR, running back, and tight end. We'll be in the wildcard game in no time. Sounds just like what I have heard about Cousins last year eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooterman Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 7 hours ago, BurgundyBooger said: You've convinced me. Now all we need is a probowl WR, running back, and tight end. We'll be in the wildcard game in no time. What do you mean tight end? We already have Jordan Reed. Oh wait....I forgot about his lack of ability to stay on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 11 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I've never been of the belief that Smith sucks. My issue is this entire is the entire deal should be unnecessary. I don't like giving folks kudos for "making the best" out of an awful situation they created. Sure, it's the best they can ask for in the short term that will at its best be good enough to keep the FO employed. But solid FO's don't find themselves in these situations. There were so many other ways this could have been handled up to this point where the Redskins are a better team because of it. I don't feel like we're a better team because of this. They simply averted catastrophe. I definitely don't disagree with anything you said. I'm not happy about the deal and losing Cousins, and I don't think Smith is bad by any means. I also simply cannot understand why the Redskins would not even reach out to Cousins and haven't since November. That just makes no sense to me and there's absolutely no reason that would make me happy about it. The fact of the matter is we actually have no clue, high or low, what it would have taken to keep Cousins here because the Redskins never even gave a **** and tried. That is what pisses me off about it all. We can speculate all we want about how much it would have cost the Redskins but we simply don't know since they never even talked to him. Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 ^^ Cousins signed the franchise tag. By rule we couldn’t negotiate with him until the season was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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