Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I can give you it's a great risk. But these teams, Denver in particular who can win the Superbowl this weekend if they had Him, ain't gonna wait years to get him. We have his rights. That is leverage. 

 

It's really not about what he wants. 

 

And I think we have proven he doesn't care much about the team. If he did we would probably not be in this situation. His goal is to het paid and, now that he's basically not a Redskin, there is nothing wrong with that. 

 

He has shown, multiple times, that he and God love one year deals. He will sign one if it's offered. Especially if it's fully guaranteed. You know that. 

Again, it is exactly about what he wants.  The Redskins made it this way.

 

They will not have to wait years to get him.  The Redskins cannot afford to have 34M in cap space locked up in Cousins.  Every team knows that.  

 

As an example, part of any team that was looking to get Alex Smith through trade had to lock up a LTD to Smiths liking at a place he'd be willing to play.  Otherwise he would just let them know there is no guarantee he'll sign long term and said team would have to FT him to keep him.  Smith was only locked in for one season at 17M and never been tagged. Kirk only locks in on a FT and it's 34M, and the third tag.

 

Again, the Redskins gave up all their leverage with the acquisition of Alex Smith.  No amount of ill will toward Kirk and his religion changes that very fact. 

[Springfield]

After mulling this over, I’m kinda ok with it.

 

First, to get over that Cousins isn’t the guy here.  He wouldn’t take 23.5M.  I wouldn’t have offered him more because there’s a whole football team that needs to be built around him.  If he wouldn’t take 23.5M then he can **** off.

 

Second, the decision to trade for Smith.  We needed a QB to replace Cousins.  Smith might not have the statistics and he may fail. Whatever.  It’s either he fails, Colt fails or some rookie fails (and is ruined in the process).  Smith gives us a shot and is priced reasonably (unlike Cousins who nearly mother****ed us to the bank).

 

Third, I still can’t believe they traded Fuller.  ****ing dumb.  Allen is a douche who isn’t good at building football teams and fired the only person associated with this team over the last 10 years that was competent enough to build a team.  Stupid trade.

 

Summary:  Dodged a bullet with Cousins.  Smith may or may not play well.  Trading Fuller was dumb.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

If Cousins signs for 27M, is paying Smith 23.5 and giving up Fuller and a 3rd really dodging a bullet?

 

I get that he might not sign for that here, but it was never offered.  It looks like hewould have turned it down but the team will never know that for sure.

 

I'm assuming he signs somewhere for less than 30M.

[Rufus T Firefly]

22 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I can give you it's a great risk. But these teams, Denver in particular who can win the Superbowl this weekend if they had Him, ain't gonna wait years to get him. We have his rights. That is leverage. 

 

We can put a tag on him which allows us to match an offer, and then we would have no ability to actually match said offer.

 

That is roughly zero leverage. 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If Cousins signs for 27M, is paying Smith 23.5 and giving up Fuller and a 3rd really dodging a bullet?

 

I get that he might not sign for that here, but it was never offered.  It looks like hewould have turned it down but the team will never know that for sure.

 

I'm assuming he signs somewhere for less than 30M.

 

I don't think it really matters since, as far as I've read, he basically told the Skins he wouldn't even talk to them until FA starts. No point in trying to throw a boatload of money at a guy who is obviously just looking to go elsewhere. We might even just play right into his hands because he could then go and say "the Skins are offering me <insert big contract numbers>, so do better than that". We had no incentive to try and sign him now. He wasn't interested.

[klwilkins1977]

Alex Smith is going to be fine.   His success or failure will not be dictated by him per se.   Moreso,  it will be getting the LG and defense squared away.   Alex's numbers were always going to be what they were in KC.   He suffered with a defense and special teams that consistently provided shirt fields,  and a competent run game...  All things we have sucked at these past few years.   His numbers were bound to be less.   All of you stat boys,  find me a graphic thay shows how many times Alex had to throw KC back into a game/lead versus how many times Kirk had to.   Again,  Kirk numbers will always look better on paper. 

 

Personally,  I'm looking forward to not holding my breath every time we're backed up or going into the end zone.   It always felt like a 50/50 chance Kirk would ground it,  throw and INT,  or fumble.   Alex just doesn't turn the ball over nearly as much as Kirk in pressure situations.   Alex reads defenses better than Captain Checkdown pre-snap and during the play. 

 

Alex IS NOT sexy in a Brady/Brees way,  but I know he will never hide behind religion or circumstance when it comes to his commitment to D.C.,  the locker room,  his guys,  or the fans.  

 

Glad to see Kirk gone.   And yes... 

 

I LIKE THAT! 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

We can put a tag on him which allows us to match an offer, and then we would have no ability to actually match said offer.

 

That is roughly zero leverage. 

 

We have no clue what Denver might be able to offer him or might try and offer him, but we can be sure that it wouldn't be as much as the Browns or Jets probably could. If they signed him for what he apparently wants they would likely have to immediately turn around and cut or trade some good players or rush to try and restructure as many players as they could. If Kirk agreed to backloaded offer from Denver in exchange for being with a team he really wants to play for I don't see any reason why we couldn't match that if we wanted to. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

I don't think it really matters since, as far as I've read, he basically told the Skins he wouldn't even talk to them until FA starts. No point in trying to throw a boatload of money at a guy who is obviously just looking to go elsewhere. We might even just play right into his hands because he could then go and say "the Skins are offering me <insert big contract numbers>, so do better than that". We had no incentive to try and sign him now. He wasn't interested.

Did McCartney block Bruce's phone number?

 

Does he have a restraining order on Bruce preventing him from making contact?

 

For someone like Bruce it would make sense to make an offer, have Kirk turn it down, allowing him the ability to embellish, exaggerate and sell that he made an effort and Scrooge McDuck would have no part of it.  Instead, he went for the splash rendering him no reason to have to talk about Kirk while he sells Alex Smith and prays it's enough to sell a few suites.

[BleedBNG]

52 minutes ago, fwo40 said:

For the record I was fine with losing Kirk - it's the "not starting over lateral move" to Smith while having to pay a price of a talented player to do it that I'm against.

 

I hear you. But then I thought if it wasn't Fuller, then it would probably be Zach Brown if we tried to match any outside offers for Kirk. Even in a trade we'd be left with Colt and maybe a QB in the draft. The average for the top 3 LB's is around $10M. That's what he'll be asking for, if not more. Not saying we'll still be able to do it, but signing Kirk to a LTD there would be no chance. The only alternative would have been to go with Colt to keep Fuller and probably re-sign Brown. So it was either Fuller or Brown, or go to a completely different direction for both of those positions. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

We have no clue what Denver might be able to offer him or might try and offer him, but we can be sure that it wouldn't be as much as the Browns or Jets probably could. If they signed him for what he apparently wants they would likely have to immediately turn around and cut some good players or rush to try and restructure as many players as they could. If Kirk agreed to backloaded offer from Denver in exchange for being with a team he really wants to play for I don't see any reason why we couldn't match that if we wanted to. 

If it was "backloaded" that would mean a big signing bonus, which we would have to pay and then get stuck with an enormous, crippling dead cap hit when we traded him.

 

This whole idea is just nonsense, and you've basically invented a "bad cap situation" for Denver to push it. 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Did McCartney block Bruce's phone number?

 

Does he have a restraining order on Bruce preventing him from making contact?

 

For someone like Bruce it would make sense to make an offer, have Kirk turn it down, allowing him the ability to embellish, exaggerate and sell that he made an effort and Scrooge McDuck would have no part of it.  Instead, he went for the splash rendering him no reason to have to talk about Kirk while he sells Alex Smith and prays it's enough to sell a few suites.

 

None of this changes that Kirk (and ostensibly his agent) said they wouldn't even talk to the Skins about contract stuff until FA starts. Bruce calls, McCartney either ignores it or simply says "we told you we weren't interested in even talking until after we see what's out there in FA. Sorry." What should Bruce do, go to McCartney's house or Kirk's house and pull a John Cusack and sit outside their houses with a boombox over his head playing In Your Eyes?

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

If it was "backloaded" that would mean a big signing bonus, which we would have to pay and then get stuck with an enormous, crippling dead cap hit when we traded him.

 

This whole idea is just nonsense, and you've basically invented a "bad cap situation" for Denver to push it. 

 

They aren't at the bottom of the league when it comes to their cap but with where they are there is almost no way they could compete with what the Browns or the Jets could offer since they're both flush with cash, especially the Browns. So it all depends on if Kirk really isn't about the money. If he isn't then he'd probably agree to a more modest deal with Denver. If he is then he'll just get wooed by the Browns or Jets. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

None of this changes that Kirk (and ostensibly his agent) said they wouldn't even talk to the Skins about contract stuff until FA starts. Bruce calls, McCartney either ignores it or simply says "we told you we weren't interested in even talking until after we see what's out there in FA. Sorry." What should Bruce do, go to McCartney's house or Kirk's house and pull a John Cusack and sit outside their houses with a boombox over his head playing In Your Eyes?

Perhaps not you, but I recall the stance by many just before the trade for Smith that Bruce needed to go to McCartney and let it be known that they will pay X, take it or leave it, not waiting until March.  If they balk, tell them to setup a trade and fast because they intend to tag him.  While I'd prefer to keep Kirk, I saw that as the next most viable option.  Apparently you believe otherwise because Kirk said one time he planned to wait a while before making any decisions.  

[spjunkies]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

None of this changes that Kirk (and ostensibly his agent) said they wouldn't even talk to the Skins about contract stuff until FA starts. Bruce calls, McCartney either ignores it or simply says "we told you we weren't interested in even talking until after we see what's out there in FA. Sorry." What should Bruce do, go to McCartney's house or Kirk's house and pull a John Cusack and sit outside their houses with a boombox over his head playing In Your Eyes?

 

I love Kurt Cousins

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

They aren't at the bottom of the league when it comes to their cap but with where they are there is almost no way they could compete with what the Browns or the Jets could offer since they're both flush with cash, especially the Browns. So it all depends on if Kirk really isn't about the money. If he isn't then he'd probably agree to a more modest deal with Denver. If he is then he'll just get wooed by the Browns or Jets. 

If he wants to sign with Denver, he signs with Denver. We can't match without thoroughly destroying our cap.

 

Just stop. This is too ridiculous to merit a fraction of the discussion it's getting.

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Perhaps not you, but I recall the stance by many just before the trade for Smith that Bruce needed to go to McCartney and let it be known that they will pay X, take it or leave it, not waiting until March.  If they balk, tell them to setup a trade and fast because they intend to tag him.  While I'd prefer to keep Kirk, I saw that as the next most viable option.  Apparently you believe otherwise because Kirk said one time he planned to wait a while before making any decisions.  

 

I'm not saying it was the best decision. I agree that it would have been better to at least try the tag and trade or the threat of it first. But the FO was also in a pickle (one admittedly of their own making)...they were pretty much positive that Kirk wanted out, they knew they wouldn't want to or be able to match a huge offer from the Browns or Jets or whoever, they knew Smith was on the trading block and that other teams definitely had interest as well. So at that point they either hope that the tag and trade works or they say "f it" and move forward with the Smith trade. If the tag and trade didn't work they'd either be saddled with Kirk for another year and be SURE that they will get precisely zero for him in 2019 or they'd have to settle for a much worse FA QB/Colt McCoy or be prepared to draft or move up in the draft to get a QB to throw to the wolves immediately. 

 

3 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

If he wants to sign with Denver, he signs with Denver. We can't match without thoroughly destroying our cap.

 

Just stop. This is too ridiculous to merit a fraction of the discussion it's getting.

 

So why bother replying? Just ignore it.

[Temper11]

7 hours ago, bobafett14 said:

I'm telling you: 90 percent of our problem in the postseason was Alex Smith.

 

Typical. You come here warning the board that the Alex Smith fans are going to ruin their board, then proceed to beat them over the head with why Smith is at fault for all the Chiefs playoff shortcomings.  

 

Here I am ES.  The big bad horrible Smith fan.  I'm a 9ers fan who, like Chiefs fan now, was really excited about my shiny new 1st round QB in 2005. Unsurprisingly, Smith didn't set the world on fire on what was a completely dysfunctional situation in SF at that time.  As the niners struggled, half the fans turned on him. I thought it was unfair and defended him.  Been a fan since.  Still a 9ers fan, but enjoy watching and rooting for Smith's success at KC and will again here at Washington. 

 

He's a really good, not terrific, not HOF, not GOAT, quarterback.  He's a good, solid QB that has learned the hard way how to win games in the NFL.  He will protect the football which will frustrate people sometimes when he doesn't take shots that some think he should take.  He is really mobile, which is certainly a plus as he will move the chains often with his legs, however, this also sometimes has a negative effect when he leaves relatively clean pockets early and runs into trouble.  He gives maximum effort and is a consummate professional on and off the field.

 

There are plenty of haters that can't stand his play - like bobafett here... I'd encourage you to listen to the guys that are in the huddle with him and the coaches he's played for to get their perspectives as well.  

 

Regardless, I hope he kicks ass for your team and the skins have tons of success.  

[max21]

46 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I've never been of the belief that Smith sucks.  My issue is this entire is the entire deal should be unnecessary.  I don't like giving folks kudos for "making the best" out of an awful situation they created.  Sure, it's the best they can ask for in the short term that will at its best be good enough to keep the FO employed.  But solid FO's don't find themselves in these situations.  There were so many other ways this could have been handled up to this point where the Redskins are a better team because of it.  I don't feel like we're a better team because of this.  They simply averted catastrophe.

This is very logical, unfortunately we root for a team that has a incompetent FO, we all should be used to it by now. Their is too many ifs about this whole situation. I would love to see Kirk be the QB for the Redskins for his whole career as much as the next guy but that isn’t the case. Who actually wants to roll with next year with Colt and look like the Jets with Mccown or the Colts with Jacoby while we’re all talking about the draft by November and thinking about the next RG. I’m personally sick of that narrative. Smith will win games, I still shutter thinking about Cousins throwing clutch time INTs or getting trampled by Dak Prescott for a 5th straight time. Losing Fuller sucks, he’s a great player but if he wasn’t ranked number 1 on BR I feel the reaction wouldn’t be so severe. Not like he was the major key to a championship defense or anything. I’m ready to roll with Smith and watch Kirk throw INTs for another team on their dime. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

So why bother replying? Just ignore it.

My bad. I didn't just allow you to spread misinformation and nonsense unchallenged. Sorry to offend.

[petedaddy]

27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

What should Bruce do, go to McCartney's house or Kirk's house and pull a John Cusack and sit outside their houses with a boombox over his head playing In Your Eyes?

 

I would have more respect for Bruce if he tried anything to show that he wanted Kirk at any point, so yes, that would have been a smart move

[Alexa]

The front office of this team lacks vison and common sense. Smith is not going make us a playoff team.  We're still the same team with him so therefore you don't make that trade and go w/ Noodle Arm. That way you save a ton of money, you still have Fuller and you're 3rd. You draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round and wait til he's ready. That is what a smart organization would do. We are not Alex Smith away from a Super Bowl. It's just flat out poor decision making from the top. It's not learning for past mistakes. It's always running out and grabbing other teams players and drooling all over them.

 

Being a Redskin fan is like being punched in the stomach over and over again. The only thing we had going for us was Scot. His moves weren't perfect but he had a vision. These clowns in the front office do not. I'm not even mad about Cousins, he needed to go cause he didn't want to be here.  I'm mad cause we take one step forward and two or three back.

[Springfield]

42 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If Cousins signs for 27M, is paying Smith 23.5 and giving up Fuller and a 3rd really dodging a bullet?

 

I get that he might not sign for that here, but it was never offered.  It looks like hewould have turned it down but the team will never know that for sure.

 

I'm assuming he signs somewhere for less than 30M.

 

23.5 was pretty much my cap on what I considered “reasonable” for Kirk.  I’m fine with him walking if he wouldn’t accept that.  Speculating any thing more is silly.  He obviously didn’t take 23.5 and that’s fine.  Wish him the best wherever he lands.

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I've never been of the belief that Smith sucks.  My issue is this entire is the entire deal should be unnecessary.  I don't like giving folks kudos for "making the best" out of an awful situation they created.  Sure, it's the best they can ask for in the short term that will at its best be good enough to keep the FO employed.  But solid FO's don't find themselves in these situations.  There were so many other ways this could have been handled up to this point where the Redskins are a better team because of it.  I don't feel like we're a better team because of this.  They simply averted catastrophe.

Not sure I can sum up my feeling on this post adequately, so let me just say:

 

[Skinsinparadise]

The idea of tagging and trading was a bit of a long shot but arguably in play before they traded for Alex Smith.  After they traded for Alex?  I just don't see how its feasible?   Among other reasons, the threat of tagging Kirk and keeping him hostage for another year isn't a real threat.  Kirk knows he's out.  Teams pursuing Kirk know that he is hitting the open market.  All leverage is gone.

 

Funny I was just listening to a Chiefs sports radio guy who hopped on 106.7.  He says Alex Smith is a below average QB.  He fails in big moments.  He's not clutch.  He doesn't take enough chances.  He leaves too many plays on the field.  He will ensure mediocrity but nothing beyond that.

 

He's not the only guy who covered Alex from KC with a similar narrative.  But they are usually nicer about the aggregate take which is to them is he's slightly above average.

 

I got some cognitive dissonance about all of this.  My negatives are

 

A. Hate the trade

B. IMO the FO bombed again

C. I think Kirk will show up this FO 

D. I think Alex Smith is a downgrade and an odd win now move as if the team is on the brink -- and not even a great win now move at that.

E.  should be interesting to see the anti-Kirkers on this one considering the criticism of Alex Smith is just about identical to everything the critics say about Kirk.  They are almost the mirror player in that regard.   It's like we got rid of a navy blue shirt and picked up an older blue shirt off of the same rack. That is from the haters perspective. Not mine.

 

My positives

A. Alex Smith is a good player.  I like him.  I don't like the trade, though.  I wanted to go young not old.  I didn't want to lose picks let alone a building block player.

B.  He's one of the classiest players in the NFL.  I don't have to like a player's personality to dig them -- but he's a tough dude for me to hate or feel hostile towards just because I am upset at Dan and Bruce for the clown show we got going.

 

[Cliffmark1]

17 minutes ago, Temper11 said:

 

Typical. You come here warning the board that the Alex Smith fans are going to ruin their board, then proceed to beat them over the head with why Smith is at fault for all the Chiefs playoff shortcomings.  

 

Here I am ES.  The big bad horrible Smith fan.  I'm a 9ers fan who, like Chiefs fan now, was really excited about my shiny new 1st round QB in 2005. Unsurprisingly, Smith didn't set the world on fire on what was a completely dysfunctional situation in SF at that time.  As the niners struggled, half the fans turned on him. I thought it was unfair and defended him.  Been a fan since.  Still a 9ers fan, but enjoy watching and rooting for Smith's success at KC and will again here at Washington. 

 

He's a really good, not terrific, not HOF, not GOAT, quarterback.  He's a good, solid QB that has learned the hard way how to win games in the NFL.  He will protect the football which will frustrate people sometimes when he doesn't take shots that some think he should take.  He is really mobile, which is certainly a plus as he will move the chains often with his legs, however, this also sometimes has a negative effect when he leaves relatively clean pockets early and runs into trouble.  He gives maximum effort and is a consummate professional on and off the field.

 

There are plenty of haters that can't stand his play - like bobafett here... I'd encourage you to listen to the guys that are in the huddle with him and the coaches he's played for to get their perspectives as well.  

 

Regardless, I hope he kicks ass for your team and the skins have tons of success.  

 

 

I think in a vacuum we all would be delighted to have Smith.  The issue is that we treated two of our own players like trash (along with our ex "GM"), players who always said and did the right thing. (and yes FO supporters, when you give your QB a closet for an office and call him Kurt, that is not good treatment, when people are told they have been traded via twitter that is not good treatment.) And we traded one of the best young slot corners for Smith, therefore nullifying any cost savings by not just signing Kirk.  So we basically made a backward move in age and talent. . 

 

I think if we got Alex Smith when we had Shanny it would have been a really good situation, perhaps even when we had SM.  Right now, I think it is very unlikely the redskins have the core competency to build a competitive football team.  There are people on here and in the FO who will tell you "we are a few breaks and players away from being contenders". I think most people here who really know football would tell you we are closer to a college team than a superbowl team.  

 

I hope Alex Smith will be good, he certainly looked good at KC, but I do not think the Redskins will be able to build a football team around him or coach a team that could ever win more than one playoff game, and that would be a best case scenario.  The whole organizational structure is wrong, they have absolutely no competitive advantage.  It would be really interesting for someone to do an MBA project on the Redskins, digging into their core competencies, resources, management style.  This is not a team that is run by benchmarking good teams.