Dissident2 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 32 minutes ago, Tay said: I don't like the fact that Fuller was traded, but the fact that he found out via social media is being overblown. This seems to happen quite often. Ideally it wouldn't happen, but it's becoming so regular, I wouldn't crush the team over it. I would. Bruce Allen apparently has a sign in his office his dad used to have hanging that says something like "The difference between good and great is attention to detail." These are the little things, but they reflect how the big things are handled, imo. As usual, Bruce is no George. Not even close. You show respect to your players when you make decisions that are going to change their lives. That's just common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said: I'm 30 some pages behind, stop distracting me. Alex 24M, Kirk aint getting much more than that from anyone. Stafford got 28M. We're talking chump change here as a difference. This crap is not about money, Its about BA being a little ****. Alex is 17mill this season. Kirk will be 28+ (likely 30+). That's not chump change. The other contract details aren't clear. The other 4 years work out at 23.5 per year and 71mill gtd. If we have (as I suspect) included the 17mill in Smith's gtd money, then that's 54mill gtd with a potential out after year 3. Need more info to see how all the details wash out, but Kirk is getting paid way more than that and I don't think there's going to be drop off in production for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Tomb Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 55 minutes ago, TK said: I'm getting a little bit more info now. Denver offered KC 2nd & Talib Browns had a ****load of picks to offer. Skins offered up Fuller-he's younger & cheaper then Talib & KC still gets a starting CB. What this implies is that boh Denver & Cleveland had Smith ranked higher then Cousins. UMPOSSIBLE! From everything I've been reading on here, we got absolutely fleeced and our FO are idiots. Uh, looks like Denver and (a newly organized) Cleveland thought the same thing we did. So... are they idiots too? Do our doom and gloomers care to comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Watch us franchise tag Kirk now and trade Smith to the Browns for their #4 and their 2nd rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Tomb Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, UKskins said: Watch us franchise tag Kirk now and trade Smith to the Browns for their #4 and their 2nd rounder I would absolutely jump up and down for that scenario... awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 47 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: He may agree to it if Denver is his preferred location and he has some reason to believe Denver may move on to another target rather than wait and take the risk, however slim, that he is not available in free agency. Denver has trade ammunition and veterans it needs to move and might prefer to lock up their QB situation before FA begins. I admit it seems like a long shot but there are valid reasons why it might happen. I do doubt it though because Kirk and his agent have spoken so often of wanting to know what FA would be like for him that I think even if Denver is his preferred choice he would rather risk them moving on than limit his options at this stage. If the Skins tag Cousins, they are screwed. They will have no cap space going into free agency, because they will have sunk $50 million into the QB position. At that point, they would be begging teams to take Cousins off their hands. The second you tag him, the money is on the books at the franchise amount. And you have to be under the cap by March 14th. If you aren't the league starts cutting players for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, UKskins said: Alex is 17mill this season. Kirk will be 28+ (likely 30+). That's not chump change. The other contract details aren't clear. The other 4 years work out at 23.5 per year and 71mill gtd. If we have (as I suspect) included the 17mill in Smith's gtd money, then that's 54mill gtd with a potential out after year 3. Need more info to see how all the details wash out, but Kirk is getting paid way more than that and I don't think there's going to be drop off in production for us. We'll see. But why do you think Kirk is getting paid way more than that? I doubt he will. If he is that much better than Smith, to get that much more money, this is even a worse decision than it appears now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dissident2 said: I would. Bruce Allen apparently has a sign in his office his dad used to have hanging that says something like "The difference between good and great is attention to detail." These are the little things, but they reflect how the big things are handled, imo. As usual, Bruce is no George. Not even close. You show respect to your players when you make decisions that are going to change their lives. That's just common sense. To be fair though this was a deal that was done behind closed doors and was not meant to be announced yet, somebody leaked the details in Kansas City and once the word was out the national boys jumped on it and sources started confirming but from the beginning of the rumor until Fuller officially found out he was moving was only about an hour in real time. Bruce may well have planned to give him a heads up but was caught out by the news leaking so fast, it happens all the time these days and I really don't think deliberate disrespect had anything to do with it, there is simply no reason for Bruce to do that and even if he is a dick I doubt he goes out of his way to piss off people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said: We'll see. But why do you think Kirk is getting paid way more than that? I doubt he will. If he is that much better than Smith, to get that much more money, this is even a worse decision than it appears now. Because anyone with any sense can see he will get paid more than that? And again, like the other Kirk disciples, you presume Kirk even would have entertained signing here when he has given no indication of that. I'm not going round this circle again - catch up your 30 pages if you want to see the discussion. And by the dumb logic of money = talent in a direct equation, I presume that you still mourn for the days when we had Albert Haynesworth because he turned out great for us on that contract right? I mean he was paid a hell of a lot of money and therefore must have performed at an elite level for us because money = talent in a direct equation.... right? and you would clearly be outraged if we traded for Brady because he is the 16th best paid QB in the league which means he's absolutely mediocre.... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Barbour Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Not even close. Linked from my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: If the Skins tag Cousins, they are screwed. They will have no cap space going into free agency, because they will have sunk $50 million into the QB position. At that point, they would be begging teams to take Cousins off their hands. The second you tag him, the money is on the books at the franchise amount. And you have to be under the cap by March 14th. If you aren't the league starts cutting players for you. Agreed which is why Denver and Kirk would need to be actively involved in some agreed tag and trade scenario for this to happen and I find that unlikely but not impossible. Weird stuff happens all the time although in this case it seems like it would be too good to be true and we would have to admit Bruce was smart which just goes against everything I believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: If the Skins tag Cousins, they are screwed. They will have no cap space going into free agency, because they will have sunk $50 million into the QB position. At that point, they would be begging teams to take Cousins off their hands. The second you tag him, the money is on the books at the franchise amount. And you have to be under the cap by March 14th. If you aren't the league starts cutting players for you. But if you trade Kirk immediately. it doesn't matter. Hell we can keep him until traning camp starts and hold him hostage until a big injury happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said: UMPOSSIBLE! From everything I've been reading on here, we got absolutely fleeced and our FO are idiots. Uh, looks like Denver and (a newly organized) Cleveland thought the same thing we did. So... are they idiots too? Do our doom and gloomers care to comment? The issue is this: Why are we in the market for Alex Smith anyway? He's marginally better than Cousins possibly. He's also five years older. I think those two probably offset each other. Here's where I stand. If a brand new GM came in and was offered this crap sandwich, and this was how he extricated the team from this situation, I would applaud. Nicely done. We have a functional QB next year. We can be an NFL team. Yay. The problem is that this is Bruce's own mess. He could have signed Cousins two years ago to a relatively cheap deal and be in the glorious position of underpaying for good QB performance. That's a formula for winning Super Bowls. Instead, we need a QB and had to pay for it for with assets. Bruce burned down his house intentionally and is being praised because he's building a slightly smaller house at the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebeermonkey Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I find it intriguing that generally players just agree to trades. Fuller isn't spoken to by either team , is under contract to Washington and isn't asked if he is fine to be traded. He could theoretically just say 'no?' or is there something in contract law in the NFL which reduces that ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said: UMPOSSIBLE! From everything I've been reading on here, we got absolutely fleeced and our FO are idiots. Uh, looks like Denver and (a newly organized) Cleveland thought the same thing we did. So... are they idiots too? Do our doom and gloomers care to comment? Word is the Browns didn't want to do the extension amount that we did. Smith/Cousins is basically a wash. Smith throws less picks & had a run game, Cousins is younger, no major injuries to where his upside may be that he can still improve. The fleecing comes into play with trading Fuller who has a few more years left on his rookie contract & graded out as the top slot CB. KC got rid of a QB they were done with, a 3rd round pick, & a cheap starting CB. We got an aging QB on his 3rd team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: The issue is this: Why are we in the market for Alex Smith anyway? He's marginally better than Cousins possibly. He's also five years older. I think those two probably offset each other. Four years older. Also in the pro column; Cheaper Wants to be here Reputation as a locker room leader Happy to groom backups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters20 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, UKskins said: Watch us franchise tag Kirk now and trade Smith to the Browns for their #4 and their 2nd rounder that would be one of the ballsiest moves of all time. And could completely blow up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 It would have been nice to sign kirk when we knew he was going to be our starter, but we didn't and it cost us. Last season we should have either paid him or moved on, but we didnt. It would have been great to have a Pat Mahome in waiting, but we doubled down on all previous mistakes. Be it Bruce or Scot or Whoever. We acted like Kirk would just happen to want to be here, even though we knew he didn't. Those are the mistakes we're paying for, from decades of incompetence. However, we have a great looking young defense who looked as good as the Eagles, Vikings and Rams to start the year. We have some talent on offense as well. We were a good team before getting crushed by injuries. Letting Cousins walk and having to use a first on whichever QB was left wouldn't have been a great move, considering we should have been better than we were. We'll get a third for letting Kirk leave, so that's irrelevant. Yes it sucks losing a young up and coming player, but a good stable QB for a CB is not a bad trade. It keeps us in the hunt, the same way the Vikings and Eagles were. CB is a position of depth that we invested in in the draft last year. We can take that hit. People saying we won't have a shot at the playoffs, didn't you think we did before both our O and D line went down in two weeks? Everyone was riding pretty high around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Butters20 said: that would be one of the ballsiest moves of all time. And could completely blow up Not really possible since this deal can't be finalized until after the deadline for franchise tags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 At this point, i fully expect cousins to sign for $15 million with denver as the ultimate FU to Dan and Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 23 minutes ago, thebeermonkey said: I find it intriguing that generally players just agree to trades. Fuller isn't spoken to by either team , is under contract to Washington and isn't asked if he is fine to be traded. He could theoretically just say 'no?' or is there something in contract law in the NFL which reduces that ability? You are owned by the team. They can trade you, you have no say. You can say no. That means that you go on the out of football list (the one that Sua Cravens is on) or retire. But the new team keeps your rights. Like Seahawks needed to deal retired Lynch his rights to Oakland. When you retire or go on out of football list you contract freezes. So if you have two years left. Retire for 3 years. You still have 2 years left from the point you start playing again. This was also something Alex Smith was worried for. Talk was that he didn't wanted to be traded to Brown's. But if Kansas City did he would have no choice. But he could just have tell then that he wouldn't sign a new deal there. So Brown's would trade for a one year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebeermonkey Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, wilco_holland said: You are owned by the team. They can trade you, you have no say. You can say no. That means that you go on the out of football list (the one that Sua Cravens is on) or retire. But the new team keeps your rights. Like Seahawks needed to deal retired Lynch his rights to Oakland. When you retire or go on out of football list you contract freezes. So if you have two years left. Retire for 3 years. You still have 2 years left from the point you start playing again. This was also something Alex Smith was worried for. Talk was that he didn't wanted to be traded to Brown's. But if KC did he would have no choice. That's a bit much. Owning people like that. So much for free trade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, thebeermonkey said: That's a bit much. Owning people like that. So much for free trade! They get well compensated for there troubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Skinhead in Saints Land Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Anybody that sees this is good is looking through burgundy and gold colored glasses. This is no way a slight to Alex Smith. I like Alex Smith. The FO isn't looking to the future, and God forbid the word rebuild. The evidence is strong. You don't sink that kind of money in a 34 year old quarterback if you're looking to the future. You don't trade away a 22 year old, very good, cornerback. You don't trade picks for a 34 year old QB looking to the future. I get the sense that this dumbass FO thinks we are "almost there" when we are literally light years away from it. Cousins was gone after this season. I had no delusions on that. Our FO gave him 100% leverage in the situation, which is almost unheard of. I'm not say Cousins is a game breaking QB either. I find him and Alex interchangeable in my opinion, but there would've been plenty of serviceable quarterbacks we could've signed in FA to be a one year stop gap while a rookie sat for a year to soak up the system, but all the evidence is showing me that drafting a QB in the first round is the farthermost thing from the FO's mind. Reaching for a receiver or cornerback will be the most likely scenario during this year's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebeermonkey Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, wilco_holland said: They get well compensated for there troubles. I don't think there's enough compensation to make my wife move away from her family for example. Especially at the level of rookie pay. Just think in this day and age, the player should be allowed to have a think and a say - same as for example the transfer in soccer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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