Hersh Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I imagine there are a few, but definitely not the majority of them. I think it's just one of those things they will go along with. They probably would have trashed the idea if Obama had brought it up and demanded that he find the money to pay for it by slashing a useful program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 Dems still have budget leverage with spending caps, which was seemingly ignored by media. Basically GOP will eventually have to give on DACA if they want to increase military spending. This is why Senate is not funding a full year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I know folks are saying the Dems are playing a longer game. But who really trusts them to be able to follow a plan? Folks pissed at Schumer. I get it. I think he should have been benched long also. As far as DACA and this Wall stuff. This isn't a hard one. How many video clips are there of Trump saying Mexico would pay for it. Dems are stupid to not replay those videos over and over while asking "Why do we need to agree to pay for this? He promised somebody else would. Let him make that deal. Don't bill the American taxpayer for this." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Does anyone actually want it other than Trump and the morons and trolls that go to his rallies? an actual wall sounds like a waste of money border security is important to me. i find it aggravating people on the left don't seem serious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, tshile said: i find it aggravating people on the left don't seem serious about it. They are hoping a influx gives them power....they are wrong about that as well in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, tshile said: an actual wall sounds like a waste of money border security is important to me. i find it aggravating people on the left don't seem serious about it. The thing is that the left has been pretty serious, lots of money has been thrown at various measures along the border which Dems supported, and numbers of illegals entering and numbers of deportations under Obama demonstrates that there is support for border protection and that Dem officials take it seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 27 minutes ago, tshile said: an actual wall sounds like a waste of money border security is important to me. i find it aggravating people on the left don't seem serious about it. Define "serious". Just because we want something more efficient then a giant concrete wall across the entire southern border doesn't mean we don't take border security seriously. 14 minutes ago, twa said: They are hoping a influx gives them power.... You really are a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Tbf, it's see through concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 31 minutes ago, tshile said: an actual wall sounds like a waste of money border security is important to me. i find it aggravating people on the left don't seem serious about it. Define serious. Increased border security and patrols under Obama than previous adminstrations: http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/jul/01/debbie-wasserman-schultz/more-border-security-and-patrols-under-obama-previ/ Much higher rate of deportations under Obama than previous administrations: https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/president-obamas-mixed-legacy-immigration There is a right wing talking point that says the left doesn't care about illegal immigration. It is not true. We just don't want mass deportations that extend to people contributing to this country. Especially those brought here as children. And we certainly don't want a stupid ****ing wall that accomplishes nothing. The left is not opposed to border security measures that are effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerbee99 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Nah, tshile is right Dems don't care about border security....... Oh that's right he is just talking out of his ass again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, killerbee99 said: Nah, tshile is right Dems don't care about border security....... Oh that's right he is just talking out of his ass again I don't think he is. I think what the Dems have done and what they try to do hasn't been trumpeted. The bigger problem again, at least in terms of Obama, is that everything the Dems asked for the GOP majority blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 26 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: You really are a troll. Because I say plainly what is inferred in many threads here by left leaning posters? Enjoy the coming fight among the Dems side...I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, Burgold said: I don't think he is. I think what the Dems have done and what they try to do hasn't been trumpeted. The bigger problem again, at least in terms of Obama, is that everything the Dems asked for the GOP majority blocked. "Dems, we were in charge when America won both World Wars and killed Bin Laden" Too wordy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said: "Dems, we were in charge when America won both World Wars and killed Bin Laden" Too wordy? This is true. Dem leadership won both World Wars. Republican leadership lost us Korea and Vietnam. They also mucked up Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Burgold said: This is true. Dem leadership won both World Wars. Republican leadership lost us Korea and Vietnam. They also mucked up Iraq. Bone spurs lose wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 34 minutes ago, twa said: Because I say plainly what is inferred in many threads here by left leaning posters? Enjoy the coming fight among the Dems side...I will. Just be honest, do you really believe the primary concern among the left in regards to immigration reform is to ensure immigrants vote democratic? I can see why'd you think that, but I believe you're making that broad generalization just to stir the pot, not because of you believe that's what other people are "inferring". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 47 minutes ago, Burgold said: I don't think he is. shhhh let him think he's witty and smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, No Excuses said: There is a right wing talking point that says the left doesn't care about illegal immigration. It is not true. That may be, and I'm ware of the statistics under Obama, but I cannot recall one conversation I've had about immigration where a democrat/liberal brought up, much less expressed sincere concern for, securing the border. They love to go on about daca, dreamers, the wall, the economic value of illegal immigrants, and pretty much everything else, except border security. And when it's brought up by someone on the right it's usually scoffed at. And it's not like they don't bring it up because it's thoroughly discussed by others before they opined. It's just not high on their priority list, as evidenced by how they (generally) discuss immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 There was a DHS procurement around 2003 that would have tracked people coming into the country but bioemetry systems like fingerprints, retnal scanning, and facial recognition. I don't know what happened to this procurement, the company I was consulting for was proposing a pretty robust computer system for ICE. Systems to be installed at every entry point. It was quite expensive, all those computers weren't cheap, the communications had to be lightening fast, and SW had to be developed. The program would have cost billions more than was budgeted by the government. The system was meant to catch people who constantly entered the U.S. after being deported, people on watch lists, and other undesirable people. So this was 15years ago. Such a system could be feasible now. SW exists, cheaper computer systems exist, communications are faster. Wouldn't this be better than spending billions on a wall? On another note, I have a real problem with ICE agents getting on buses demanding that everyone show their citizenship papers. Totalitarian governments do this, not republics. If I was asked, I will refuse and hire the ACLU to fight this outrageous practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: So this was 15years ago. Such a system could be feasible now. SW exists, cheaper computer systems exist, communications are faster. Wouldn't this be better than spending billions on a wall? I've yet to be convinced of the effectiveness of a wall. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just doubtful it will be done right. I don't know how your idea would work either. They going to stand in line for retinal scans? If facial recognition was even feasible over the entire border, exactly what are we going to do once they're recognized? Furthermore, why don't we just stop them regardless of whether they're a repeat offender? Your idea doesn't make sense and sounds like as big of a waste of money as the wall. Maybe more, given how much our gov't pays for computer systems vs concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 We could require employers to use e-verify. Mexicans come here for jobs. Republicans don't support that because then they lose their cheap labor, which shows you what a farce this issue has become. We absolutely should not spend a dime on a stupid ****ing wall that wouldn't even be as effective as solutions that already exist and are much cheaper. Neither party actually wants to stop illegal immigration. What the Trump GOP wants is for us to spend billions on a symbol of racism, not an actual solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 29 minutes ago, tshile said: I've yet to be convinced of the effectiveness of a wall. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just doubtful it will be done right. I have a hard time believing that a strategy that failed in the fourth century BC would suddenly be effective today. More, military, anti-terrorism and immigration experts all reject it as a fix. In sort, the wall is only good as a PR stunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 hours ago, tshile said: an actual wall sounds like a waste of money border security is important to me. i find it aggravating people on the left don't seem serious about it. That's funny cause when Obama asked for money in 2014 (a paltry $3.7 billion) to help with border security the GOP didn't give it to him because, ya know, they are SOOOO serious about border control. 1 minute ago, Burgold said: I have a hard time believing that a strategy that failed in the fourth century BC would suddenly be effective today. More, military, anti-terrorism and immigration experts all reject it as a fix. In sort, the wall is only good as a PR stunt. But it will be the greatest wall ever!!! That's the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: Just be honest, do you really believe the primary concern among the left in regards to immigration reform is to ensure immigrants vote democratic? I can see why'd you think that, but I believe you're making that broad generalization just to stir the pot, not because of you believe that's what other people are "inferring". No,voters in the future are not the primary concern....that would be using them as a political weapon now.(just like the GOP does ) I'll let their 'efforts' at reform speak for themselves.....while mocking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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