tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 34 minutes ago, Hersh said: That's funny cause when Obama asked for money in 2014 (a paltry $3.7 billion) to help with border security the GOP didn't give it to him because, ya know, they are SOOOO serious about border control. The gop is currently, and apparently has been trending this way for a while, a worthless bucket of scum. Maybe one day we can discuss the democrats/liberals without you all immediately going "... but the gop!" 37 minutes ago, Burgold said: I have a hard time believing that a strategy that failed in the fourth century BC would suddenly be effective today. More, military, anti-terrorism and immigration experts all reject it as a fix. In sort, the wall is only good as a PR stunt. I'm not the one you need to convince. In fact, I don't recall anyone who regularly participates in the political discussions advocating for a wall... i may be wrong on that... I do find it funny Schumer, supposedly representing the D's, was willing to fund one though (until he wasn't going to get what he wanted) The solution to the illegal immigration problem seems relatively easy (though speeding up the legal process is probably very complex/difficult/costly) so... it's interesting we can't get the two sides to find a solution they agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, PF Chang said: We could require employers to use e-verify. Mexicans come here for jobs. Republicans don't support that because then they lose their cheap labor, which shows you what a farce this issue has become. We absolutely should not spend a dime on a stupid ****ing wall that wouldn't even be as effective as solutions that already exist and are much cheaper. Neither party actually wants to stop illegal immigration. What the Trump GOP wants is for us to spend billions on a symbol of racism, not an actual solution. We can't even seem to force govt officials to not harbor illegals. I'd be fine with a e-verify system if it doesn't just become another tax on my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 48 minutes ago, tshile said: The gop is currently, and apparently has been trending this way for a while, a worthless bucket of scum. Maybe one day we can discuss the democrats/liberals without you all immediately going "... but the gop!" OK, we won't talk about the GOP- what was your opinion of Obama's border security proposal that was described in the article? I know this is a really important issue to you, so I'm sure you have some very interesting thoughts given all the research you've done into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, balki1867 said: OK, we won't talk about the GOP- what was your opinion of Obama's border security proposal that was described in the article? I know this is a really important issue to you, so I'm sure you have some very interesting thoughts given all the research you've done into this. If I may Quote • $1.8 billion for basic necessities like food and shelter for unaccompanied immigrant children; • $897 million for judicially processing and deporting undocumented families; • $364 million for other administrative processing related to the surge in apprehensions of unaccompanied children and families; • $295 million for the reintegration of migrants to countries in Central America; • $109 million for expanding immigration and customs investigations and enforcement; • $45.4 million for additional immigration judges to increase case processing; • $39 million to increase air surveillance of the Rio Grande region; • $29 million for expanding the Border Enforcement Security Task Force program; • $15 million for direct legal representation services to children in immigration proceedings; • $5 million for public programs and support related to Central American migration issues; • $2.5 million for expansion of the legal orientation program; • $1.1 million for additional immigration litigation attorneys. Separately, the bill includes $615 million for wildfire suppression, which is unrelated to the immigration situation. .Even at the high end of the estimate, though, the amount spent on securing the border would amount to less than one-third of the total. The majority would go toward taking care of immigrants who recently arrived at the border, particularly the $1.8 billion allocated to the Department of Health and Human Services, which is tasked with caring for children who are already here. (And of course the $615 for wildfire suppression is not connected to immigration.) http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jul/14/steve-king/rep-steve-king-says-obamas-37-billion-plan-regardi/ seems less than security oriented and when added with his previous unilateral decision to deffer deportation on minors less than ideal....as was made plain at the time. Texas itself approved $86M for border security out of state funds https://www.texastribune.org/2014/12/01/lawmakers-approve-86-million-maintain-border-surge/ Funding was approved, but certainly less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, tshile said: The gop is currently, and apparently has been trending this way for a while, a worthless bucket of scum. Maybe one day we can discuss the democrats/liberals without you all immediately going "... but the gop!" I showed you an example of Dems pushing for more border security. Dems are perfectly willing to vote for more border security. I’ll give another. Which party in 2013 passed comprehensive immigration reform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Awesome- how does that compare to an $18B wall that can be a scaled with a $65 ladder ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, twa said: If I may seems less than security oriented and when added with his previous unilateral decision to deffer deportation on minors less than ideal....as was made plain at the time. Texas itself approved $86M for border security out of state funds https://www.texastribune.org/2014/12/01/lawmakers-approve-86-million-maintain-border-surge/ Funding was approved, but certainly less And the 2013 immigration reform that passed with 68 votes in the Senate (50+ Dems) that the GOP didn’t even put up for a vote cause they knew it would pass. You should tackle that one next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, balki1867 said: Awesome- how does that compare to an $18B wall that can be a scaled with a $65 ladder aw, cute 7 minutes ago, Hersh said: I showed you an example of Dems pushing for more border security. Dems are perfectly willing to vote for more border security. The example TWA just outlined? Is what he posted accurate in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, tshile said: aw, cute People are willing to walk through 50 miles of desert to come here as things currently stand- I have to imagine they'll find a way over/under/through that wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, balki1867 said: People are willing to walk through 50 miles of desert to come here as things currently stand- I have to imagine they'll find a way over/under/through that wall. who in the last 5 pages has shown support for the wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, balki1867 said: Awesome- how does that compare to an $18B wall that can be a scaled with a $65 ladder ? How does it compare to the millions of illegal aliens here? I'd give you a number but the guesses vary by more than several states population combined. ....so I'll just say a bunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, tshile said: who in the last 5 pages has shown support for the wall? No one, I think we agree on that. So what's the Republicans' plan again? You said Democrats aren't serious about border security and yet you agree with me that the Republicans have no plan to address it. Am I understanding correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, balki1867 said: No one, I think we agree on that. So what's the Republicans' plan again? You said Democrats aren't serious about border security and yet you agree with me that the Republicans have no plan to address it. Am I understanding correctly? Yes. It is possible for both parties to not address an issue to one's satisfaction. I know that's a foreign concept around here, but i promise it does exist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, tshile said: aw, cute The example TWA just outlined? Is what he posted accurate in your opinion? Did you see my other example from the Dems passing comprehensive immigration reform in the Senate in bipartisan fashion in 2013? So the Dems pass comprehensive reform in 2013. GOP doesn't act. Obama asks for minuscule amount the next year in 2014. GOP doesn't act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Hersh said: Did you see my other example from the Dems passing comprehensive immigration reform in the Senate in bipartisan fashion in 2013? Yeah, I was trying to address one issue at a time. Is TWA's post accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 3 hours ago, tshile said: And it's not like they don't bring it up because it's thoroughly discussed by others before they opined. It's just not high on their priority list, as evidenced by how they (generally) discuss immigration. That's true. It's not a priority issue for the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Just now, No Excuses said: That's true. It's not a priority issue for the left. Which is basically all I was trying to say. So you're all arguing with me for no ****ing reason other than you felt the need to defend your preferred political party. took a while but we got there. 5 hours ago, tshile said: border security is important to me. i find it aggravating people on the left don't seem serious about it. jesus ****ing christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, tshile said: Yeah, I was trying to address one issue at a time. Is TWA's post accurate? I imagine it was. I edited my last post. After those two examples, we can go back to 2007 when Republican Senators didn't support their party's POTUS in reforming immigration. 4 minutes ago, tshile said: Which is basically all I was trying to say. So you're all arguing with me for no ****ing reason other than you felt the need to defend your preferred political party. took a while but we got there. jesus ****ing christ No, I totally disagree with you that the Dems don't take it seriously. One party has been voting in favor of immigration reform, the other doesn't seem to even have votes on it. It's not about defending a preferred party is about facts on who has and who has not worked for immigration reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, tshile said: Which is basically all I was trying to say. So you're all arguing with me for no ****ing reason other than you felt the need to defend your preferred political party. took a while but we got there. I see it is a difference between what the left prioritizes and versus how our elected officials handle it. I think we can expect that if a left wing politician is elected, they won't neglect border security. It would be a different story if we actively sought to sabotage border security the way Republicans generally handle issues they don't prioritize (like the EPA for instance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 You were right @tshile. It took like three post before someone went back and said "but the GOP." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: You were right @tshile. It took like three post before someone went back and said "but the GOP." Factually he was wrong. But hey, why put things into context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, No Excuses said: I see it is a difference between what the left prioritizes and versus how our elected officials handle it. I think we can expect that if a left wing politician is elected, they won't neglect border security. It would be a different story if we actively sought to sabotage border security the way Republicans generally handle issues they don't prioritize (like the EPA for instance). i think the elected dems generally represent the dem voters, but actually understand that they have to do thing their supporters either don't like or don't care about because there's an actual country to run. and i agree i don't think the democratic leadership is trying to sabotage border security. i just think the dem voters do not care (as evidenced by pretty much every single immigration conversation I've ever seen where they never, ever bring up or seriously discuss border security, it is only brought up when someone on the right says "i want border security" [or makes some claim about dems not caring about it[), and I think the elected dems are willing to do as little as they feel necessary but also are not prioritizing it. if the dems were serious about border security, actually serious, i'd pretty much be in lock step agreement with them on immigration. it's really the only thing we aren't on the same page about. the only other thing is this notion that we have to be an open, low barrier to immigration country - i don't think just because we were given a statue that says it 200 years ago means we have to always and forever be like that. but we can argue over the immigration process once we get the borders secured and do something with the ones here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Hersh said: Factually he was wrong. But hey, why put things into context. What did he say that was factually wrong? The only thing I saw was about the left passing an immigration Bill. And then TWA posted a rundown of the bill that makes it look like it wasn't really a border security bill at all anyways. And thentshile came by and agreed. But before that even happen someone else already started talking about what the GOP done. And I was talking about when he said we can't discuss the left here at all without someone saying but the GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: You were right @tshile. It took like three post before someone went back and said "but the GOP." Understanding how the two parties approach issues they don't champion is important. I actually do think the left would be better served if it took immigration more seriously and as I recall, out of the 1 million policy proposals Hillary had, she didn't really have a comprehensive plan for securing the southern border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 minute ago, No Excuses said: Understanding how the two parties approach issues they don't champion is important. I actually do think the left would be better served if it took immigration more seriously and as I recall, out of the 1 million policy proposals Hillary had, she didn't really have a comprehensive plan for securing the southern border. I disagree. Once we have all admit it the GOP is scum, then we should be able to discuss the support or lack thereof for the left plan without having to resort back to just how it is better than the GOP plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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