Redskinscub Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 I hope he does get better, and I am rooting for him. I don't remember many 1st rounders who were drafted as a project. No, he is not all pro, right now he is not even playing well enough to even be a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 More concerning to me than the drops are that - in the admittedly little of him that I see - he always has a cornerback in his back pocket. Why can't he shake these guys? Yeah, it's tough to blame Doctson for missing a catch when the defender got a hand on the ball...but why was the defender close enough to get that hand on the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, ncr2h said: More concerning to me than the drops are that - in the admittedly little of him that I see - he always has a cornerback in his back pocket. Why can't he shake these guys? Yeah, it's tough to blame Doctson for missing a catch when the defender got a hand on the ball...but why was the defender close enough to get that hand on the ball? I think his route running needs work. Cooley on 980 is constantly harping about how he rounds out his routes and isn't very crisp. Hopefully with another off season to work on his game and hopefully continued health he'll take that step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissident2 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said: He definitely had a lot of bad drops this year. I think 50/50 could be a good nickname for him but he needs another season. I agree with @elkabong82's post, people around here freak the **** out if someone isn't an All Pro after like 3 games. I could deal with his lack of production much better if he had a better attitude/vibe. That's my biggest red flag. He just doesn't seem to play with any passion whatsoever. That truly bothers me. Art Monk was about the farthest from an "in your face" type of guy as you could get, but you could still tell he played with passion and went all out every play. And I remember Monk's rookie season: he was a game-changer from the beginning. All this "we need to give him time" stuff would also be easier to swallow if he wasn't a first-round pick. Someone picked as high as he was shouldn't be as raw and seemingly uninspired as he showed himself to be this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Better attitude/vibe? What? Yall create stuff when it isn't even there LOL. Art Monk caught everything that came his way. But he was EXTREMELY reserved. More so than Doctson. Let Docton have his catch rate % go up and this is a non-issue as far as how he carries himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 5 hours ago, elkabong82 said: Makes our fan base look bad. Most of our fan base are idiots regardless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Warhead36 said: He's not even Rod Gardner at this point. At least Gardner had a 1000 yard season. He's more 30/70 than 50/50, but with that said the talent is there. Hopefully he breaks out in year 3 similar to Jordan Reed. Jordan Reed was just injured, and needed better QB play. It took only a few games to realize that he was special. That is my problem with Doctson. I agree when I hear this is just his first full season and such, and he is not a finished product. I get that a guy needs time to learn how to be a better pro. I don't get when a guy goes an entire season, and nothing flashes. We are eternally the fanbase that thinks everyone needs 10 years before they are ready. Even though he was uneven this year (but started to look like his old self at least at WR), Jamison Crowder took jist a few games before he flashed good slot receiver type potential. Thats what great talents do, even when they are not ready yet. They flash, in many different areas. They give you evidence to suggest that with practice, they will be more consistent How does a guy practice to catch better, be more physical, get separation, etc, when he is working from where he is? It would have to be dramatic improvement. Everyonehink of with those issues, had them their entire careers, even when they got better, but the best among them had superior athletic ability to make up for their weaknesses in other areas. Not saying he can't do it, but as of right now, I just don't see anything to suggest to me that he can, yet. And I would love to be dead wrong. He can jump high and get the ball, yes, but that only leads me to believe that he can maybe be effective in redzone packages, when no one is paying attention and sending extra defenders his way to take him out of the play. No freakout here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dissident2 said: I could deal with his lack of production much better if he had a better attitude/vibe. That's my biggest red flag. He just doesn't seem to play with any passion whatsoever. That truly bothers me. Art Monk was about the farthest from an "in your face" type of guy as you could get, but you could still tell he played with passion and went all out every play. And I remember Monk's rookie season: he was a game-changer from the beginning. All this "we need to give him time" stuff would also be easier to swallow if he wasn't a first-round pick. Someone picked as high as he was shouldn't be as raw and seemingly uninspired as he showed himself to be this season. The kid is a quite guy. Always has been. But just because he does not throw temper tantrums does not mean he has no passion for the game. All his teammates have said he is a very hard worker in practice watching lots of film and learning as much as her can. It's the end of his first real year. People are so impatient. If they are not a pro-bowl player in the first 4 games that player is a bust. WRs take at least a few years to make an impact. Learning all the route combinations and it all coming instinctive instead of having to think about it. His drops are a fair concern but again that is something he can fix. He has great hands and has made some amazing catches. Let's give the guy more than a minute to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinscub Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Here is the new 50/50's pre-draft analysis WEAKNESSES Tall but needs to add more muscle to prepare for physical, press cornerbacks. Played in offense that created plenty of space to work in. Needs a greater commitment as a blocker. Was rarely pressed, but had issues coming out cleanly when he was. Doesn't look sudden or urgent in his routes and is upright into his breaks. Out-breaking routes are rounded and obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissident2 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, goskins10 said: The kid is a quite guy. Always has been. But just because he does not throw temper tantrums does not mean he has no passion for the game. All his teammates have said he is a very hard worker in practice watching lots of film and learning as much as her can. It's the end of his first real year. People are so impatient. If they are not a pro-bowl player in the first 4 games that player is a bust. Throwing tantrums isn't what I want to see. I want to see someone fighting for the ball every time it comes his way. I want to see a guy playing like he wants to be out there, like he loves what he's doing. I just don't see that right now with Doctson. If I'm misjudging him, I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong next season, but my experience has shown me that first impressions in football are usually lasting ones. Again, I hope I'm wrong. He was just very uninspiring this season on just about every level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I think he's a 20/20 guy, because his games make me want to drink a bottle of Mad Dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 The dude has go go gadget springs in his feet, he has talent. It's not like we should be talking about cutting him, lets at least get to end of rookie contract. I believe by then he'll be worth resigning and will be starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I swear Leonard Hankerson broke half our fans. People gave him forever before calling him a bust just because he had big hands. Josh Doctson, meanwhile, is far more athletically gifted and can't get slack before he's finished a full season lol. Plus, it has been a while since we've had a good UDFA WR fan crush. We got to see Good Doc and Bad Doc last season. He's got plenty more time to establish which one is his main personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 11 hours ago, skins4eva said: He seems very tentative--almost scared. It could be the case that he hasn't had much in the way of mentorship, which can be really invaluable for a young receiver. I think he needs to give some serious thought in the offseason to going to one of those performance camps or training with a bone fide top tier receiver and really mastering his craft. The drops and sloppy route running from him were really disappointing. I had hoped Ike Hilliard could have provided those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Dissident2 said: Throwing tantrums isn't what I want to see. I want to see someone fighting for the ball every time it comes his way. I want to see a guy playing like he wants to be out there, like he loves what he's doing. I just don't see that right now with Doctson. If I'm misjudging him, I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong next season, but my experience has shown me that first impressions in football are usually lasting ones. Again, I hope I'm wrong. He was just very uninspiring this season on just about every level. You saw what you wanted to see. You see a few minutes on the field when he is in a game and make a determination. His team mates disagree with you. He has made some incredible catches. He does fight for balls. You just choose not to see it. So his catch against Seattle was uninspiring? And he made more than that one great catch. How about his first couple of TDs? Was he not excited? I saw him more than once lobbing for and getting a few PIs. What's amazing is that so many people complain about players being overly animated and not "just playing the game". Then a more cerebral player comes in and it's "he doesn't paly with enough passion". I prefer a guy who just works hard and continues to get better. He is still just learning the game at the NFL level. This is from Josh Doctson: “I’ve been impressed with Josh throughout the whole year,” Gruden said on Wednesday. “He’s been durable. He’s played the whole year and done some great things and I think there’s more to Josh than what we’ve seen this year and I think we’ll get more out of him next year – the more comfortable our quarterback gets with him and the more that we see that he can do. I’ve been impressed with Josh, not only in the route running, but he’s been getting better in blocking also.” https://247sports.com/Bolt/Jay-Gruden-happy-with-Josh-Doctsons-improvement-112821773 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 500 yards and 6 TDs in a de facto rookie campaign? I'll take it. Give him time folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 The kid is gonna be just fine. I'm glad he doesn't have the attitude of, say, Dez Bryant. Like @goskins10 said, the guy is just reserved by nature. I think some of you are taking 5 seconds of post-play game footage and equating that to mean that he is somehow disengaged. He gets excited, celebrates, etc. like any normal player. He doesn't go overboard, and frankly I appreciate that. I'm growing tired of seeing players pointing to the name on the back of the jersey, and those sorts of antics. Anyway, don't worry about #18. He's immensely talented, and is just beginning to come into his own at the pro level. This is essentially the end of his rookie year, in practical terms. And let's not overdo it here. Ol' Rod Gardner used to drive me crazy with those drops. This kid, though, hasn't underperformed or dropped more passes than is to be expected of a "rookie" wideout. And one last thing, he's open a LOT, but that pigskin wasn't aimed in his direction as much as should/could have been the case. Somebody needed to either see the field better or stop trying to play it safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Basically his rookie year he had 30+ catches for 6 TD or so. Thats not bad. Showed enough to give him another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Too early. Remember this was his rookie season. He lost almost the entire preseason and was learning in games this year. Way too early to give up on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Yeah I'm in the wait and see camp too, WRs always take longer to develop. He has skills but I too question his ability to separate and that's what all the great ones can do. I tell you what, if the go with Colt or some retread hack we may never know how good he can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I think this is a totally different conversation if, everything else being the same, he just held on to a few more of these TDs. If instead of 6 TDs, he had 10 (which woulda been 2nd in the league behind Hopkins), we probably cut him more slack. And he definitely left 2-4 TDs out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 24 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Yeah I'm in the wait and see camp too, WRs always take longer to develop. I think that applies in a more broader sense. Cuz there's plenty of WRs that hit the ground running. And it's not unreasonable to expect that of a first round WR. Since 2009, the only first round WR that needed a minute to get going was probably Nelson Algolor, and he's not a #1 WR, and that's IF we're saying Algolor is decent now. IMO, (and this is not an absolute) the development is usually from rawer prospects you're drafting lower in the draft. A first round WR is expected to contribute and the truly good ones you're spending first round resources on usually dont take long to get to up to speed. Those that dont probably wont be good regardless of how long you wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I seem to remember quite a few throws forcing him to make a better effort than may be necessary. He was underthrown quite a bit on those 50/50 balls, where if the ball was further down field he would have had the advantage. It's also not fair to give him the nickname of 50/50 when the majority of his opportunities are 50/50 balls... He had a few bad drops on timing routes and stuff, but as far as expected for a rookie, I wasn't disappointed. I'd love to see a guy come into the league and blow things up as a rookie but to expect that is unfair. The majority of the players in the NFL don't start out like Julio Jones with almost 1000 yards, they take time to develop. Santana Moss swears by this kid, and he knows a heck of a lot more about what he's seeing than I am, so I'm not willing to write him off quite yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissident2 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 8 hours ago, goskins10 said: You saw what you wanted to see. You see a few minutes on the field when he is in a game and make a determination. His team mates disagree with you. He has made some incredible catches. He does fight for balls. You just choose not to see it. "Saw what you wanted to see." Yeah, that makes total sense. I, a Redskin fan, want to see our number one draft pick fail. I want to see our number one pick, who was drafted by a guy (SM) I've championed, turn out to be a bust. Yeah, OK. Brilliant points all around. I went into this season WANTING to see Doctson explode onto the scene and show me something to be excited about. I wanted him to erase all the lingering feelings of doubt regarding the strange circumstances of his first missed season. Didn't expect perfection, didn't expect pro bowls, just expected him to become someone I could point to as a guy we could be excited about for the future. As far as what I WANTED to see, that's it. I haven't seen that yet. And it's not just me. Here's what Sheehan said about him yesterday: "Looked totally disinterested. I was his biggest fan. I watched him throughout college. I wanted the Redskins to draft him when they drafted him. Right now, if I had to wager legally somewhere, I would wager that this will ultimately be more bust than boom. There's an urgency you have to have at that level that he just ... now maybe it's an immaturity and maybe he will grow into it, but it's just painful to watch him at times. Painful. The lack of like true, 'I'm in an NFL game, I can't let the corner just go right in front of me, I have to actually cross his face and show a little urgency in doing it.' It was painful at times to watch him this year. It's his first year for all intents and purposes, and I want him back next year and I want them to throw him the ball and give him a chance, but if I had to wager big time number one receiver worth a first round pick or not, I think I would wager 'or not' at this point." Cooley: "He has to be way down the list in completion percentage on targets [in the NFL]. I mean, he has to be way down the list. He's got 23 targets over the last two weeks, six receptions. That's a very low catch rate. As low as it gets." I guess these guys are just "seeing what they wanted to see," right? Yeah. My opinions pretty much mirror Kevin Sheehan's. I haven't written him off as a bust at this point. I hope he proves my current doubts about him to be unfounded. But I have pretty much the same questions about him after this season as I did after last, and what's worse, I have those questions after actually seeing him play all year. So feel free to say why my current opinion on him might be wrong (a quote from Gruden in a season-ending presser isn't really strong evidence, imo), but don't suggest that I "want" to see the guy fail or have somehow blinded myself to all of Doctson's "greatness" this season. Far from it. I'm just going by what my eyes and gut tell me, and I wish they both told me something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Biggest issue with Doctson is Cousins. Doctson is the type of receiver you throw open. He will go make the play. Cousins does not like those throws. He likes guys like Reed/Crowder/Grant who run a route to get open. Hence why Grant sticks around. Doctson is a playmaker. Cousins doesn't know how to use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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