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2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

Going Commando

By Going Commando
in The Stadium

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crabbypatty

crabbypatty

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

Here is a good example of Payne and Vea. Playing against decent college competition. Both teams squaring off. Jonathan Allen is also in the game. One of the 3 shows up regularly. The other two? Not so much. This is what can be seen on most of the film that can be found on all three guys on a regular basis. Don't believe the hype!

 

 

 

Jonathan Allen is the real deal. The guy is just so well trained and smart. I expect big things from him this year, I'm praying he stays healthy.

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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

How bout a little Taven Bryan/Vander Esch 1-2 combo. That would make the entire D better and than focus on getting a 3rd somewhere...

Perhaps a trade back to the 20’s, pick up a 2nd, and then trade back from that pick.  

Wind up with a

1st (in the 20’s)

2nd (#44)

2nd (late in the round)

3rd

 

Obviously it would be really tough to find a starter at DL, WR, RB, G, ILB and good option at (slot) corner, along with good depth at OLB (and TE?).  If they can address 2-3 of those in FA though...

I think they can add a good DL or G, ILB, back, WR or corner, and a TE in the draft with a trade back (or two).  

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clskinsfan

clskinsfan

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

The Skins won't do it but they REALLY should select DJ Moore at 13.

 

Imo, he's a bona fide number one receiver.

 

I like Moore but his hands concern me a little bit. He will drop balls from what I saw on tape. Now he was playing with NOBODY at the QB position. But he has points in games where he loses concentration IMO.

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Bonez3

Bonez3

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

Perhaps a trade back to the 20’s, pick up a 2nd, and then trade back from that pick.  

Wind up with a

1st (in the 20’s)

2nd (#44)

2nd (late in the round)

3rd

 

Obviously it would be really tough to find a starter at DL, WR, RB, G, ILB and good option at (slot) corner, along with good depth at OLB (and TE?).  If they can address 2-3 of those in FA though...

I think they can add a good DL or G, ILB, back, WR or corner, and a TE in the draft with a trade back (or two).  

Never happens, hard enough to trade at all let alone fall in a spot where 2 teams want the pick you happen to hold. 

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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Never happens, hard enough to trade at all let alone fall in a spot where 2 teams want the pick you happen to hold. 

It’s very unlikely, yes.  I wouldn’t think impossible though.  I do think that teams are constantly asking about trades, it boils down to whether the value is fair/good.  Teams fall in love with players all the time.  

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BRAVEONAWARPATH

BRAVEONAWARPATH

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I like Moore but his hands concern me a little bit. He will drop balls from what I saw on tape. Now he was playing with NOBODY at the QB position. But he has points in games where he loses concentration IMO.

As you said, look at the QBs he was playing with.

 

He caught balls imo, that shouldn't have been catchable.

 

Passes too high, behind him etc etc

 

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SkinsGuy

SkinsGuy

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, fordranger76 said:

The more I watch Vea the more I become concerned. He cannot rush the passer. At all.

 

 

There's more to a great defensive lineman than just sacks. Since even the best pass-rushers usually only average 15-17 sacks a year out of hundreds of plays for a defense, there has to be more to a DL than just sacks.

 

Vea, it can be argued, is the player many on this board have been clamoring for in the Redskins' 3-4 defense. He is a big 340+ pound run-clogging NT (possibly in  the Ngata mold) who can control the middle of the line.

 

As pass-rushing goes, Vea won't get you 15 sacks a year (nobody said he would). More likely maybe 4 or 5 sacks, which is pretty good for a player of his size. From what I have heard, he CAN rush the passer, and is  good at something just as important.... that is, collapsing the center of the pocket  and making it problematic and difficult for the opposing QB to step up and throw.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for Vea. I've never really seen him play all that much. However, I wouldn't rule him out because he isn't a sack leader like other DL.

 

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Silvernon

Silvernon

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Obviously it would be really tough to find a starter at DL, WR, RB, G, ILB and good option at (slot) corner, along with good depth at OLB (and TE?).  If they can address 2-3 of those in FA though...

I think they can add a good DL or G, ILB, back, WR or corner, and a TE in the draft with a trade back (or two).  


We can almost be certain that Norman will not see his last contract year, and highly doubtful for 2019. It depends if the rumor is true that the Redskins thought his physical skills declined this year and his aging process will facilitate that sharp drop in performance. Either way, I fail to see the Redskins spending more cap $$ this season on the secondary. Beyond a nickel corner on day 3, and maybe a high potential risk, it seems that there is greater focus elsewhere. 
 

If they trade down in the first, I'd like to see: DL, ILB, RB (no order) as the top three picks. Would hope that a pass-catching TE, outside speed receiver or a left guard is there in the fourth round, but I can see the team being aggressive in FA to bring in some players to compete. If they bring in a NT (Logan) and Taylor/Baker as a back-up plan with McGee, I can see them skipping DL until day 3.

 

17 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

 

There's more to a great defensive lineman than just sacks. Since even the best pass-rushers usually only average 15-17 sacks a year out of hundreds of plays for a defense, there has to be more to a DL than just sacks.

 

Vea, it can be argued, is the player many on this board have been clamoring for in the Redskins' 3-4 defense. He is a big 340+ pound run-clogging NT (possibly in  the Ngata mold) who can control the middle of the line.

 

As pass-rushing goes, Vea won't get you 15 sacks a year (nobody said he would). More likely maybe 4 or 5 sacks, which is pretty good for a player of his size. From what I have heard, he CAN rush the passer, and is  good at something just as important.... that is, collapsing the center of the pocket  and making it problematic and difficult for the opposing QB to step up and throw.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for Vea. I've never really seen him play all that much. However, I wouldn't rule him out because he isn't a sack leader like other DL.

 


The Redskins have been weak in the middle for a long-time and the pass-rushing efficiency of the LBs means squat if teams can pound the ball down the middle. Vea will be an inferior pass rusher than Ngata, but will be a superior run defender. 

Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa were big-time for the Ravens and allowing Ray Lewis to be at his best. If the plan is to get an elite ILB in the next two drafts, then they should be allowing that player to be his most effective by giving him time to read and react before the blockers reach him. 

Starters: Ioannidis - Vea - Allen 
Reserves: McGee - Taylor - Lanier
Cheerleader: McClain

An improved Ioannidis and McGee to go with a healthy Taylor is a potential top 10 defensive line. 

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wilco_holland

wilco_holland

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bonez3 said:

How bout a little Taven Bryan/Vander Esch 1-2 combo. That would make the entire D better and than focus on getting a 3rd somewhere...

 

Yeah if we can get 2 first round picks.... Don't think either makes it out of first. Only if maybe some people rank the 'Bama LB above Vander Esch, but don't think so. 

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Darth Tater

Darth Tater

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

 

There's more to a great defensive lineman than just sacks. Since even the best pass-rushers usually only average 15-17 sacks a year out of hundreds of plays for a defense, there has to be more to a DL than just sacks.

 

Vea, it can be argued, is the player many on this board have been clamoring for in the Redskins' 3-4 defense. He is a big 340+ pound run-clogging NT (possibly in  the Ngata mold) who can control the middle of the line.

 

As pass-rushing goes, Vea won't get you 15 sacks a year (nobody said he would). More likely maybe 4 or 5 sacks, which is pretty good for a player of his size. From what I have heard, he CAN rush the passer, and is  good at something just as important.... that is, collapsing the center of the pocket  and making it problematic and difficult for the opposing QB to step up and throw.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating for Vea. I've never really seen him play all that much. However, I wouldn't rule him out because he isn't a sack leader like other DL.

 

To bolster your point, depending on how the defense is set up, a good pass rushing nose probably ends up with no more than 2-3 sacks per year (6+ probably indicates you got DEs that force double teams).  In the pass defense, the main things you want is probably a NT that allows your backers and safeties to not get easily suckered by run action pass, helps force the QB to throw off his back feet and is a key component to shutting down middle screens and the like.

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fordranger76

fordranger76

Posted
Posted

Again about this production thing with Vea and Payne alike. Other NT's were able to get pressure in the backfield double teamed and make tackles for losses. It can be scheme dependent all you want but the fact is the tape keeps showing Phillips, Settle, Gilmore, and Senat get into the backfield while double teamed making sacks and tackles for losses. I am not making this stuff up or pulling it out of my ass. You can view this for yourself. I am well aware that NT's are supposed to excel at the run game stoppage. Im not daft. I know they don't get to the QB often. What I am saying is you don't draft a guy at 13 that can only do that in college. Only a run stopper. It is a bad move when other guys in this very draft seem to do it a lot better and have the film to back that up that won't cost the number 13 overall pick.

 

Vea is being compared to Poe a lot as well. Some say better. But even then Poe was better at getting into the backfield than Vea. He got overdrafted at the time too. He was the the hot girl at the time. And what has he turned out to be? By large parts a disappointment. Why? Because of draft position. The guy never should have been drafted where he was because he could not rush the passer as well. Rushing the passer is the premium in this league now not run stuffing. You can see it time and time again how the big run stuffers get chewed up in no huddles and the like. They can't do it. Also 2 down players should be close to top ten targets? Why? The only way that should be is if they are a pass rushing specialist. Not a run stuffer.

 

I will wrap up my rant with this. Vea is a mountain of a man. Is quick for a behemoth. I get all of that. But he is being hyped because of it. Not because of his play. But because he looks the part. Because his film looks great against Washington State and the like. Against Bama and Penn State he vanishes. Take it for what you will.  

 

 

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wilco_holland

wilco_holland

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

To bolster your point, depending on how the defense is set up, a good pass rushing nose probably ends up with no more than 2-3 sacks per year (6+ probably indicates you got DEs that force double teams).  In the pass defense, the main things you want is probably a NT that allows your backers and safeties to not get easily suckered by run action pass, helps force the QB to throw off his back feet and is a key component to shutting down middle screens and the like.

 

Go watch snacks from the Giants. That's the best NT when you talking about making the team in general better against the run.

 

Agree. If you look at the history of good NT, they don't have huge sack numbers. Poe had 6 in one year, rest of his career more a 3 sack guy. That one year was just crazy. Also because the rest of his D was really good. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

Denzel Ward with a 4.32.  I think that just about guarantees he goes before our pick. 

 

Peter King

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/05/nfl-combine-2018-news-josh-rosen-shaquem-griffin-mmqb-peter-king?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

 Top 10? Asked several GMs/scouts/coaches for their top 10 in the draft as of today. Here’s the consensus, in an order close to this: Barkley, USC QB Sam Darnold, North Carolina State pass-rusher Bradley Chubb, Allen, Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield, UCLA QB Josh Rosen, Notre Dame G Quenton Nelson, Alabama DB Minkah Fitzpatrick, Ohio State CB Denzel Ward, Georgia LB Roquan Smith.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

  1. As much as everyone loved Swearinger, let’s not pretend like he hasn’t a) worn out his welcome before and B) seemed to peeve them with some of his comments. James would be insurance in case they tire of DJ and if Montae gets hurt. Plus, he’s versatile as hell

  2.  

    Craig Hoffman Retweeted Wwe fan

    He’s so interesting. I gotta figure out what tier they have him in. He’s not a positional need bc they LOVE Nicholson, but one scout (not theirs) told me he’s so good you take him and figure it out. If he’s the best on the board, they’ll take him.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    Wwe fan @WAGSKKBB
    Replying to @CraigHoffman
    Are they looking into Derwin james
  3.  

    Craig Hoffman Retweeted Scott Jennings

    Haven’t talked to anyone about him yet, but I would imagine they would be. Don’t know if they’ll blow out the budget for him but he’s the one guy that might fit that #1 bill.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    Scott Jennings @HunterLoganX
    Replying to @CraigHoffman
    Any word on interest in Allen Robinson if he becomes available
  4.  

    Craig Hoffman Retweeted VAdvo

    They know. The problem is those guys are REALLY hard to find. 350 lbs athletic humans are few and far between.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    VAdvo @DC_vetadvocate
    Replying to @MarkBullockNFL @CraigHoffman
    Until they realize the importance of a stud NT, they’ll never see how dominant a 34 defense can be
  5.  

    Craig Hoffman Retweeted skins

    It’s possible. Vea is a 3 down player per a scout I talked to last night. Can play NT or end in 3-4, then 1T or 3T in 4-3. He had a great week despite the injury.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    skins @skinsuniverse8
    Replying to @CraigHoffman
    Lot of talk about Vea or Payne at 13 but is there a good chance they go nose tackle in FA with Poe or Logan and thus look elsewhere in the draft

  6. Craig Hoffman Retweeted Scott Jennings

    They talked to everyone. I’m guessing they liked the same kinda guys most everyone else does that make sense. Vea, Payne, Ridley, etc. FA I know they’re interested in Richardson, but he’s not a #1.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    Scott Jennings @HunterLoganX
    Replying to @CraigHoffman
    Who got the biggest buzz/was linked to the Redskins in draft and free agency at the Combine?
     
     1
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RWJ

RWJ

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

  1. As much as everyone loved Swearinger, let’s not pretend like he hasn’t a) worn out his welcome before and B) seemed to peeve them with some of his comments. James would be insurance in case they tire of DJ and if Montae gets hurt. Plus, he’s versatile as hell

  2.  

    Craig Hoffman Retweeted Wwe fan

    He’s so interesting. I gotta figure out what tier they have him in. He’s not a positional need bc they LOVE Nicholson, but one scout (not theirs) told me he’s so good you take him and figure it out. If he’s the best on the board, they’ll take him.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    Wwe fan @WAGSKKBB
    Replying to @CraigHoffman
    Are they looking into Derwin james
  3.  

    Craig Hoffman Retweeted Scott Jennings

    Haven’t talked to anyone about him yet, but I would imagine they would be. Don’t know if they’ll blow out the budget for him but he’s the one guy that might fit that #1 bill.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    Scott Jennings @HunterLoganX
    Replying to @CraigHoffman
    Any word on interest in Allen Robinson if he becomes available
  4.  

    Craig Hoffman Retweeted VAdvo

    They know. The problem is those guys are REALLY hard to find. 350 lbs athletic humans are few and far between.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    VAdvo @DC_vetadvocate
    Replying to @MarkBullockNFL @CraigHoffman
    Until they realize the importance of a stud NT, they’ll never see how dominant a 34 defense can be
  5.  

    Craig Hoffman Retweeted skins

    It’s possible. Vea is a 3 down player per a scout I talked to last night. Can play NT or end in 3-4, then 1T or 3T in 4-3. He had a great week despite the injury.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    skins @skinsuniverse8
    Replying to @CraigHoffman
    Lot of talk about Vea or Payne at 13 but is there a good chance they go nose tackle in FA with Poe or Logan and thus look elsewhere in the draft

  6. Craig Hoffman Retweeted Scott Jennings

    They talked to everyone. I’m guessing they liked the same kinda guys most everyone else does that make sense. Vea, Payne, Ridley, etc. FA I know they’re interested in Richardson, but he’s not a #1.

    Craig Hoffman added,

    Scott Jennings @HunterLoganX
    Replying to @CraigHoffman
    Who got the biggest buzz/was linked to the Redskins in draft and free agency at the Combine?
     
     1

Great stuff, SIP!  Keep it going. :)

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

  1. Redskins Rant Retweeted NFL Research

    I think it was @JPFinlayNBCS or @john_keim who said the #Redskins are high on Jackson

    Redskins Rant added,

    DXigEA3W0AELKy2.jpg
    NFL ResearchVerified account @NFLResearch
    Josh Jackson's physical measurables and 40-yard dash time are comparable with 2-time Pro Bowl cornerback Marcus Peters …
     
     
    Direct message
  2.  

    JP said it the other day but yeah had heard same. He's a damn good player

     

     

    http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35790/no-doubt-about-it-redskins-need-to-upgrade-at-running-back

    At the combine, after top-rated Saquon Barkley, the Redskins were impressed with LSU’s Derrius Guice during the interviews. He was considered a “personality.” They also liked how he competed last season, playing while hurt.

     

    The Redskins realize it’s a deep running back draft class, so it’s not as if every name they like was discussed. But others to watch include San Diego State’s Rashaad Penny, who ran a 4.46 in the 40-yard dash at the combine. Arizona State’s Kalen Ballage opened eyes when he ran the same time, forcing the Redskins to go back and watch more film on him. That sort of speed combined with his size (6-foot-2, 223 pounds) will make him intriguing, but he also was never the full-time guy at Arizona State. He’s likely a later-round pick.

     

    The difficult part with drafting a running back will be knowing when to do so. At 13, it’s likely too high -- and there are likely more pressing areas to address there (defensive line, for example). The Redskins don’t pick again until 44th. In between those two picks, there could be a run on drafting backs. Suddenly, a player they felt might drop to them will be gone. However, in a deep class, there will be good backs available at 44.

    They could also look for help in free agency. But the problem with that is the potential cost of a player, knowing who there’s younger, cheaper and talented backs available in the draft. That’s why a guy like Isaiah Crowellmight be bypassed. The Redskins have spoke highly of him in the past and like his explosiveness. But do you spend around $5 million per year on him if there are a handful of backs you like just as much in the draft?

     

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dyst

dyst

Posted
Posted

We need to draft faster guys but not just speed, I would much prefer guys that can accelerate on a dime and shift in an instance. As a running back Perine might be good but I don't feel comfortable with any of our guys as the lead back.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

Finlay just now doubled down on Josh Jackson interest.   Also Payne, Vea.

 

  1.  Mason Rudolph✞✭ Retweeted

    Josh Jackson leads the our draft board at cornerback headed into the 2018 NFL Draft https://buff.ly/2t23Q3x 

    DXIKgYGVMAAtTpM.jpg
     
     
    Direct message
  2.  

    Like @MikeMayock comp of @TheIowaHawkeyes CB Josh Jackson Marcus Peters for instincts. Old school comp? Everson Walls @NFLDraft #NFLCombine

    3 replies16 retweets42 likes
     
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