2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[clskinsfan]

On 1/20/2018 at 2:16 PM, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

You wont find many in here who disagree with that.

Especially in this draft. It is DEEP at QB and a guy you like will be there at some point when you pick.

[carex]

4 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

I would go with Sheldon Richardson over Poe but I love the later Bryan pick. I think he is the 3rd best lineman in this draft for 3-4 and could really surprise some people.

 

we need a NT, Richardson's size makes him a DE in a 3-4

 

now on the subject of OL, I know it's tough to tell because a college LT can end up playing RG in the NFL, but does anyone think the answer might be moving Scherff to LG and getting a new guy on the right side?

 

[fordranger76]

5 minutes ago, carex said:

 

we need a NT, Richardson's size makes him a DE in a 3-4

 

now on the subject of OL, I know it's tough to tell because a college LT can end up playing RG in the NFL, but does anyone think the answer might be moving Scherff to LG and getting a new guy on the right side?

 

I understand that and am not opposed to Poe but that big boy Vita is sitting out there and Payne too. Tomsula likes smaller guys so I'm not sure we will be shopping for the big guys including Vita. I could be talking out of my ass about this but I swore I saw that somewhere.  Hell they will probably tell on themselves in the draft if they grab a big name guy on the D-line as far as FA goes. A Poe will probably result in an end and a Richardson might net the NT. As for LG I hope they go in FA after Norwell. We got to get someone big this year to help this team on the lines.

[clskinsfan]

12 minutes ago, carex said:

 

No, not necessarily.  The Skins will need to find a way to get a few guys as free agents no matter what, simply because they have a ton of free agents and seven draft picks

 

 

it is to soon to start that stuff

 

We have 8 draft picks by the way. We have 2 7th rounders. Just a heads up.

[clskinsfan]

Good article comparing Vea to Ngata. I will be doing defensive tape in Feb at some point. Cant wait to watch it:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-is-vita-vea-the-next-haloti-ngata

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, carex said:

 

No, not necessarily.  The Skins will need to find a way to get a few guys as free agents no matter what, simply because they have a ton of free agents and seven draft picks

 

 

Yeah, I don't know enough about how that works.  Our roster shows 53 players, plus 20 IR players, plus 15 reserve/futures players, for a total of 88.  Spotrac shows 20 FAs.  Not really sure what that means going forward.  Theoretically, we're at 68 players under contract, plus the 7 draft picks, and figure we bring back somewhere around 6 of our FAs.  That leaves 9 spots to get us to 90.  Whether that comes from UDFA or FA, you're right that we have to add in FA.  To reiterate, I have no idea if there is a discrepancy between spotrac and our end-of-year roster.  

 

My initial point was since I'm operating as though Cousins was returning, and therefore we wouldn't have the money for much, if any, serious defensive help, I'd rather look at defense in round one.  If you were operating as though Cousins was gone, and we'd then be able to land capable (i.e. pricey) help for the defense via FA, a guard in round 1 makes more sense.  

 

Forgetting all of that, and just looking at which I'd prioritize, I'd go with a defender that can help our run D over a LG.  Partially because I think that defender would help elevate the D more than a guard would elevate the offense, partially because our defense is 'closer' than our offense, and partially because with our oline decimated, the offense didn't totally implode (whereas our defense did when Allen/Foster went out).  

 

To each their own though... I can certainly see your point that we don't have a viable LG on the squad as opposed to viable dlinemen.  If Roullier pans out and we land a stud G in the draft, it would likely vault this oline to one of the top lines in the league, and you'd hope that would mean vast improvement for the ground game, as well as help for our qb (especially if we wind up with a rook back there).  

 

My concern is that the TEs, RB (this one's a moot point since we agree we should try to land a good back in the draft) and possibly even the scheme are as much, or more at fault for our ground game struggles.  That's not mentioning a lack of receiving weapons (a receiver that can 'take the top off' in particular) affecting the run game.  Hence my desire for oline help/competition in the 3rd or beyond, but utilizing our first rounder on defense.  

 

Edit:  essentially addressing our (hopefully) 'easy' fix first, and then work on the rest (the run game - back, TE and LG - and the receiving weapons... which might be the hardest fix - and is a part of why I keep banging the drum for a well rounded TE [and a back] as they can help the run and pass games).  

[50yrSKINSfan]

On 1/20/2018 at 3:19 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In good spirits, I disagree with most of this. 

 

But running with this point for argument sake if you agree that you can't win without a good QB -- what makes you think the team that has struck out on that front numerous times for almost 30 years now will get it right this time quickly.   The last time they got it right in the draft before Kirk was maybe Stan Humphries in 1988.

 

They have also tried the drill of build up the rest of the roster drill and wait on the QB over and over again.  Going back to that well is Groundhog Day.

 

For example, I was at the New Orleans game.  Got Saints fans sitting next to me raving about Kirk.  Unfortunately Kirk couldn't stop Drew Brees' offense -- he didn't play defense that day.   But if we had another D lineman and perhaps middle linebacker - the outcome might have been different.

 

The defense finished 27th in points allowed.  How many other teams made the playoffs with bottom 10 defenses in points allowed?  A big fat zero.

 

That's why to me this draft could be our version of the Saints last draft -- upgrade the defense, upgrade the running game and it changes the whole outlook of a team.  It wasn't a FA spending spree that turned the Saints around but a good draft. 

 

This draft is a good set up IMO to help make a turnaround.  Really good potential run stuffers in the first and running backs in the 2nd.  If we go with Colt or a rookie, this baby is likely back on a reset and we start hearing again about lets be patient for the next 3-5 year rebuild.

 

 

I'll try it again. I never said you didn't need a good QB I just said KC is not the guy. He has set himself up for a big payday and if some team aunties up he will score but he is not a franchise QB like Brady, Brees, Rogers or even Eli or  Wentz. I'll bet the Raiders are kicking themselves for overpaying their QB now. If it were my desision I would not offer him top money I would rather let him walk and build with a guy who is a blue chipper out of college and try and build the D and running game with KC money on FA and the draft like the Birds or the Jags. You had KC 2 years as a starter and you were a 500 team. One thing he was consistent with was throwing interceptions at the worst times against the Giants. What makes you think making him the highest paid player in NFL history will change things? Think about that. KC wants Arod money and is he to football what Arod was to baseball? You are in a rough division. The Cowboys have a great running game. The Birds can run it and pass it. The Giants will pick that kid from Penn State with their top pick and get some new O linemen in the draft or FA and they will run the ball down our throats as well plus kick our butts with their D and you want to give KC Fort Knox to save us? Is that your plan? You tell me I am foolish to trust our front office when picking FA but you want them to pull off a draft like the Saints did? I think we are a few years from being a playoff team so why overspend on a guy who has not won anything yet. Spend it on blue chippers. Cheers.

[skinny21]

7 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I'll try it again. I never said you didn't need a good QB I just said KC is not the guy. He has set himself up for a big payday and if some team aunties up he will score but he is not a franchise QB like Brady, Brees, Rogers or even Eli or  Wentz. I'll bet the Raiders are kicking themselves for overpaying their QB now. If it were my desision I would not offer him top money I would rather let him walk and build with a guy who is a blue chipper out of college and try and build the D and running game with KC money on FA and the draft like the Birds or the Jags. You had KC 2 years as a starter and you were a 500 team. One thing he was consistent with was throwing interceptions at the worst times against the Giants. What makes you think making him the highest paid player in NFL history will change things? Think about that. KC wants Arod money and is he to football what Arod was to baseball? You are in a rough division. The Cowboys have a great running game. The Birds can run it and pass it. The Giants will pick that kid from Penn State with their top pick and get some new O linemen in the draft or FA and they will run the ball down our throats as well plus kick our butts with their D and you want to give KC Fort Knox to save us? Is that your plan? You tell me I am foolish to trust our front office when picking FA but you want them to pull off a draft like the Saints did? I think we are a few years from being a playoff team so why overspend on a guy who has not won anything yet. Spend it on blue chippers. Cheers.

I'll grant you, it's a weird dichotomy.  Let's take the matchups vs the Eagles.  Cousins, with our current run game and defense, couldn't beat them.  If we let Cousins walk, and beef up our defense and run game, Wentz likely outduels our new qb.  If keeping Cousins means we can't significantly beef up those other two weak spots, we can't beat them.  So what do you do?  What's the right answer?

 

My thinking is that if we get a bit lucky in the draft, if it breaks right for us, we land an impact defender that can help stop their ground game.  If we can find a guard somewhere, draft a better back, and find a blocking TE, Cousins likely stands a better chance vs their D.  Then you have Cousins vs Wentz.  That's not a terrible matchup, IMO.  Of course, it's theoretically easier to do the above if we have more resources - i.e. we don't pay Cousins.  Which leads us to the qb position.  

 

If we draft a first rounder, that's one major resource off the table.  That allows us to sign one of the big NTs and sign Landry.  Tough to say if Kirk and a 1st round NT is worth more than a good receiver and very good FA NT.  If we instead (or also?) find a veteran qb, how much do they cost?  Osweiler was what, 18mil?  Smith would be 17 (and an early draft pick), Bridgewater/Bradford would be, what, 15-20mil?  I don't know.  Suddenly you're talking about saving 10mil or less by letting Cousins walk, and maybe losing your 1st round pick (to draft a qb).  Which means you get one big FA - say Landry, or Poe/Logan.  So which is better, a vet qb of a lesser caliber, plus a rookie qb that likely isn't ready to play (or play that well), plus Logan/Poe... or Cousins plus a 1st round NT?  Tough to say for sure, right?  The FA NT is likely better than a rook, but our qb situation is likely worse.  

 

If we only go with a rookie qb (and the two big FAs), how long do they take before they're truly helping us win games (with any sort of consistency)?  3 years?  So now we're in the same cap situation (having signed two mega FAs), but needing replacements for our aging guys and guys that have hit FA - Smith, Scherff, Norman, Swearinger, Williams, Crowder, Thompson, Ioannidas, Fuller, etc.  Looks like we're in a similar boat to where we stand now - lacking the cap space to be able to address a lot of our needs and having to hope the draft solves a lot of our problems...but in that scenario, we have a young qb that may or may not be our franchise qb - the qb carousel many of us are dreading if Cousins walks.  

 

 

I'm going to tangent here for a moment.  Let's say we take Cousins and swap him with some of the other top qbs.  

 

Cousins is an Eagle and Wentz is a Redskin.  Rosters are the same as they were this year (including injuries).  Who wins more games?  Who performs better at qb?  I'd take Cousins there.  

Now Cousins and Roethlisberger swap... who do you take?  I'm going Cousins again.  

Cousins and Brees... I'm taking Cousins.  This one's tougher, but that run game had a huge impact.  

Cousins and Dak, or Cousins and Eli?  Easy choice for me.  

Cousins and Keenum?  No brainer.  Ditto Cousins and Bortles.  

 

Offhand, the only two I truly give the edge to someone besides Cousins are Brady and Wilson.  

You know what that tells me?  In most cases, those other qbs have better supporting casts.  That's not a revelation, just a reaffirmation. Cousins needs help.  Now, given his expected contract, can we give him help?  I'm not entirely sure on this one.  If our injuries were closer to League average, would we have won more games?  I'd expect at least a couple more wins, maybe more.  If we get our guys healthy, don't suffer a crazy amount of injuries and add a good NT and back... would we win more games next year?  I'd have to think so.  What if we also luck on a good pass catcher, guard, or ILB - whether someone already on the roster, through our meager FA dollars, the draft or UDFA?  Would we be better still?  I'd like to think that would be the case.  

 

Is asking for 2-3 good contributors a lot to ask from those various sources?  I wouldn't think so.  I say that based on last year.  We weren't big players in FA last year and we got a starting caliber safety (maybe 2 depending on how you view Nicholson), 2 good dlinemen (Allen and Ioannidas stepping up), a really good slot corner (Fuller stepping up), a good ILB (Brown), a pretty decent/good pass rushing DE (Lanier), a pretty decent/good interior lineman (Roullier), and a very good 3rd down back (Thompson).  It's actually a little crazy so many unheralded/unproven guys stepped up for us, right?  

 

So so that's where I'm at.  Keeping Cousins does not mean we can't significantly improve (and there's a lot of room for improvement).  Letting him walk does not mean we can significantly improve even more.  Why let a good player at your most important position walk without trying for that improvement first?  The bottom line is it's not black and white - keep Cousins or be able to spend a lot of resources on the areas of weakness. 

 

I'll add this  - I wouldn't be surprised if those in favor of signing Cousins were underestimating how little capital we'd have to re-sign guys and dip into FA.  I also wouldn't be surprised if those in favor of letting him walk are overestimating how much resources we'll actually have to address those same areas.  Interesting dichotomy indeed.  

[mistertim]

If the rosters and injuries were the same I'd definitely still take Wentz over Cousins because he has that escapability and size so he can get away from pressure more often and make more off schedule plays. He's also 5 years younger. But yeah, nothing is a guaranteed as far as being able to upgrade if we didn't sign Kirk and we drafted a QB. I still think it's likely to happen though, unless they transition tag him and he either signs the offer and decides not to talk to other teams or he gets another offer and the Skins match. It just sounds like he wants to test FA. But drafting a QB would certainly cost a lot less money and free some up room in the cap. But obviously drafting a QB is pretty much always a crap shoot unless you have a once in a generation sort of prospect, and I don't see that in this class. That being said, What it lacks in "can't miss" prospects (insofar as there is such a thing) it makes up for in depth so there's likely to be a quality guy there at 13. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 hours ago, skinsOLfan said:

I see many sleeping on Arie Koundio as a possible starter at LG, he played well down the stretch and kept improving weekly. I suspect that is why I'm seeing reports saying the redskins might part ways with Spencer Long.

Also we just resigned Orlando Franklin to a futures contract and I have a feeling Arie may take a jump up in play like Morgan Moses and Trent Murphy did.

 

I thought Arie was a disaster more often than not.

 

Not sure if we'll go that direction in the draft or spend some $ on a free agent.  But I can't imagine they are going to start Arie.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I'll try it again. I never said you didn't need a good QB I just said KC is not the guy. He has set himself up for a big payday and if some team aunties up he will score but he is not a franchise QB like Brady, Brees, Rogers or even Eli or  Wentz.

 

I've at least in my mind shot down some of these points multiple times in the Kirk thread. Don't want to turn this into the Kirk thread.  I'll just say this, if you don't think Kirk isn't even as good as Eli than you are even deeper down the rabbit hole than some of the more vocal Kirk critics are.  So to each their own.  We'd be wasting our time debating this one further.   Cheers. 

 

29 minutes ago, mistertim said:

That being said, What it lacks in "can't miss" prospects (insofar as there is such a thing) it makes up for in depth so there's likely to be a quality guy there at 13. 

 

If the draft geeks are onto anything than this is a specific debate as to QBs.  Maybe, Mayfield is still there.  Likely, Rudolph is there.  JP Finlay doubled down a few days ago on them liking Rudolph.  So either he's onto something or they are doing a good job taking him off the scent.   I can't envision Josh Allen dropping that far.  Darnold-Rosen are likely going real early, too.   So not sure whose left at 13 besides those two guys?  I doubt L. Jackson.  And the next tier of players at least right now aren't looking like first rounders:  Falk, Ferguson, etc.  

[bh32]

Does it really matter who they draft? Team has no damn direction..Doesn't want to pay a QB,but keeps josh norman at 17 mil a year and other high priced players so they can draft a QB that most likely will be a bust or said high priced players are gone before QB becomes good..Such ****ing idiots run this team.

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've at least in my mind shot down some of these points multiple times in the Kirk thread. Don't want to turn this into the Kirk thread.  I'll just say this, if you don't think Kirk isn't even as good as Eli than you are even deeper down the rabbit hole than some of the more vocal Kirk critics are.  So to each their own.  We'd be wasting our time debating this one further.   Cheers. 

 

 

If the draft geeks are onto anything than this is a specific debate as to QBs.  Maybe, Mayfield is still there.  Likely, Rudolph is there.  JP Finlay doubled down a few days ago on them liking Rudolph.  So either he's onto something or they are doing a good job taking him off the scent.   I can't envision Josh Allen dropping that far.  Darnold-Rosen are likely going real early, too.   So not sure whose left at 13 besides those two guys?  I doubt L. Jackson.  And the next tier of players at least right now aren't looking like first rounders:  Falk, Ferguson, etc.  

 

I really hope they don't go with Rudolph. Watching his game tape he just didn't do anything that impressed me. Yeah he's big, has a pretty good arm, and put up gaudy stats but he was paying in an incredibly QB friendly system and half the time he was throwing to wide open receivers and we all know the Big12 isn't exactly a defensive powerhouse and has a history of churning out poor to mediocre QBs. It also seemed like his reads were really simple. Usually half field reads with only a couple of options. I think I mentioned this before but he basically reminds me of a less talented Sam Bradford. 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

If the rosters and injuries were the same I'd definitely still take Wentz over Cousins because he has that escapability and size so he can get away from pressure more often and make more off schedule plays. He's also 5 years younger. But yeah, nothing is a guaranteed as far as being able to upgrade if we didn't sign Kirk and we drafted a QB. I still think it's likely to happen though, unless they transition tag him and he either signs the offer and decides not to talk to other teams or he gets another offer and the Skins match. It just sounds like he wants to test FA. But drafting a QB would certainly cost a lot less money and free some up room in the cap. But obviously drafting a QB is pretty much always a crap shoot unless you have a once in a generation sort of prospect, and I don't see that in this class. That being said, What it lacks in "can't miss" prospects (insofar as there is such a thing) it makes up for in depth so there's likely to be a quality guy there at 13. 

Just in case you misunderstood me... who do you pick to win, Cousins with the Eagles roster (stout run game, defense and decent receiving weapons), or Wentz on our squad (injured D that can’t stop the run and struggles on 3rd downs, no run game and poor/injured weapons).  Maybe you were already with me, either way, sorry if that was unclear.  

 

I’m taking Cousins every time personally.  In real life, until we see changes, I’m picking Wentz and Co. to beat us every time.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

On 1/20/2018 at 8:33 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think it would end up lower than that.  But I'll play with your number.  Still plenty of room.  Other teams figure this stuff out.  Granted Bruce-Dan and the operation over here aren't the Saints -- Bruce isn't Jeff Ireland.   So yeah I grant you the Saints are likely better at both playing the draft and the cap than the Redskins.   But I'd hope they can show some competence even if they aren't anything special. 

Not getting deep into this discussion, and didn't follow the Giants cap situation last year. But, if you're gonna 'play with the number' that he used, then we're basically out of cap after Cousins and Brown. He said they would cost 35 mil. The rest would maybe cover RFAs, draft picks, Practice Squad, final roster spots, IR, emergencies. To even re-sign the guys you talked about- Galette or Murphy, Foster-Grant ... we wouldn't be able to without creating room elsewhere. 

 

What worries me, though, is the idea that Bruce and Co will "figure this stuff out" to find space to sign some Free Agents. Because the way to "figure" that is to backload contracts and take from the future, which is entirely the wrong path for us to be taking right now. That would be an Allen-Gruden Hail Mary to save their jobs, at the expense of what's best for our long-term success.

 

The Saints are working the cap to make another run or two at a title while their HOF QB still has a couple of years left. We'd be doing it to try to slip into the playoffs and convince Dan not to fire people just yet.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Not getting deep into this discussion, and didn't follow the Giants cap situation last year. But, if you're gonna 'play with the number' that he used, then we're basically out of cap after Cousins and Brown. He said they would cost 35 mil.

 

Not at all.  And this is before shedding a dime of cap space.  Other teams can shed 50 million or so and we can't find 5 million or so?  But even if we didn't we add a dime of cap space that way.  If I recall we are in in the top 10 right now as for having room.  Yeah Kirk and Zach take up a lot of it.  But there is still room to play with.  

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2017/12/13/16771700/nfl-salary-cap-to-increase-to-at-least-174-178-million-in-2018-redskins-nfl

According the Overthecap, the Redskins have $55.5 million in cap space next year based on a salary cap of $180 million(the team also has ~$3 million that can be carried over from 2017). This does not include several key players that could be re-signed including Cousins, Zach Brown, Spencer Long, Ryan Grant and others. The Redskins also have several players who could be released after this season for significant cap savings like Niles Paul($1.875 million), Ziggy Hood($1.25 million), and others.

 

8 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

The Saints are working the cap to make another run or two at a title while their HOF QB still has a couple of years left. We'd be doing it to try to slip into the playoffs and convince Dan not to fire people just yet.

 

My point on the Saints was in response to a post that alleged that the Saints likely had more cap room than we did to start 2017 and that helped their rebuild.  My point there is they actually had significantly less cap room than we had.  And their surge wasn't about FA last season but primarily about the draft. 

 

10 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I really hope they don't go with Rudolph. Watching his game tape he just didn't do anything that impressed me. Yeah he's big, has a pretty good arm, and put up gaudy stats but he was paying in an incredibly QB friendly system and half the time he was throwing to wide open receivers and we all know the Big12 isn't exactly a defensive powerhouse and has a history of churning out poor to mediocre QBs. It also seemed like his reads were really simple. Usually half field reads with only a couple of options. I think I mentioned this before but he basically reminds me of a less talented Sam Bradford. 

 

Got my doubts about Rudolph too.  But you were talking depth and how we can land one at the 13th pick.  Right now at least its not like there are a series of projected guys at 13.  It's really mostly two guys, Mayfield and some mocks have Rudolph as a mid first rounder.  Some have Mayfield going top 10.  I think a big Senior Bowl might solidify Mayfield in the top 10.  If so, and if there is something to Finlay's comments on Rudolph?  I recall no one had Christian Ponder pegged as someone who would go as high as #12 -- at this point in time if I recall he was mostly mocked as a late first-early 2nd. 

 

But there is a reason why QBs are getting all this dough now in FA.  Desperation fuels the market and that extends to the draft where we've noticed guys projected at where they are now often get elevated higher on draft day.  

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/washington-redskins/Bolt/Report-Washington-Redskins-like-Oklahoma-State-QB-Mason-Rudolph-113933683

Baker Mayfield has been routinely linked in recent mock drafts, but the Washington Redskins may have their eyes on another quarterback.

According to NBC Sports Washington's JP Finlay, the Redskins have kept a keen eye on Oklahoma State star Mason Rudolph, and trading down for the quarterback could turn into an interesting proposition on Draft Day. 

"I think it's entirely premature to say that's Baker Mayfield or somebody else," Finlay told Grant and Danny on 106.7 The Fan when asked about the Redskins drafting a quarterback. "Here's one thing I know, the organization likes Mason Rudolph a lot, and if that's somebody you could get at (pick no.) 20 or 22, I think that would be pretty interesting for some folks. 

 

[OVCChairman]

15 hours ago, carex said:

 

we need a NT, Richardson's size makes him a DE in a 3-4

 

now on the subject of OL, I know it's tough to tell because a college LT can end up playing RG in the NFL, but does anyone think the answer might be moving Scherff to LG and getting a new guy on the right side?

 

He's already a 2 time probowler at RG, why move him?  The piece is in place, I'd say let it continue that way.  The line is going to suffer less (my opinion) if you have 1 person possibly learning how to be successful at a given position in the NFL (drafted G @ LG) instead of now having 2.  The other things is as it stands now we have a pro bowler on either side of center.   Shift Scherff to the left, him and Trent are fine but then the right side is going to be a major dropoff unless you find an absolute surefire day 1 starting RG somewhere.  I'd leave Scherff where he is, it's working for him. 

[skinny21]

While I/we have Roullier penciled in at C, depending on how the draft shakes out, they may wind up feeling more comfortable with Roullier at LG and a cheap (vet) option like Bergstrom at C, rather than forcing Kalis, Catalina or whoever into the LG role.  

 

The oline injuries sucked this year, but at least some guys added some game day experience.  

[Thinking Skins]

I was just curious about what we should be expecting in terms of draft day trades. So I looked at it historically: 

 

2017 Draft

Apr 28, 2016:Texans traded 2016 1st round pick (22nd overall, Josh Doctson) and 2017 6th round pick (209th overall, Robert Davis) to Redskinsfor 2016 1st round pick (21st overall, Will Fuller)

Apr 30, 2016: Jets traded 2017 4th round pick (114th overall, Samaje Perine) to Redskins for 2016 5th round pick (158th overall, Brandon Shell)

Apr 30, 2016: Saints traded 2016 5th round pick (152nd overall, Matthew Ioannidis) and 2017 5th round pick (154th overall, Jeremy Sprinkle) to Redskins for 2016 4th round pick (120th overall, David Onyemata)

Apr 29, 2017: Vikings traded 2017 6th round pick (199th overall, Chase Roullier) and 2017 7th round pick (230th overall, Josh Harvey-Clemons) to Redskins for 2017 6th round pick (201st overall, Bucky Hodges) and 2017 7th round pick (220th overall, Ifeadi Odenigbo)

 

 

2016 Draft

Apr 3, 2015: Redskins traded 2016 6th round pick (197th overall, Dan Vitale) to Buccaneers for Dashon Goldson and 2016 7th round pick (232nd overall, Steven Daniels)

Apr 28, 2016: Redskins traded 2016 1st round pick (21st overall, Will Fuller) to Texans for 2016 1st round pick (22nd overall, Josh Doctson) and 2017 6th round pick (209th overall, Robert Davis)

Apr 30, 2016: Saints traded 2016 5th round pick (152nd overall, Matthew Ioannidis) and 2017 5th round pick (154th overall, Jeremy Sprinkle) to Redskins for 2016 4th round pick (120th overall, David Onyemata)

Apr 30, 2016: Redskins traded 2016 5th round pick (158th overall, Brandon Shell) to Jets for 2017 4th round pick (114th overall, Samaje Perine)

 

2015 Draft

May 1, 2015: Seahawks traded 2015 3rd round pick (95th overall, Matt Jones), 2015 4th round pick (112th overall, Arie Kouandjio), 2015 5th round pick (167th overall subsequently traded, Damian Swann) and 2015 6th round pick (181st overall, Kyshoen Jarrett) to Redskins for 2015 3rd round pick (69th overall, Tyler Lockett)

May 2, 2015: Saints traded 2015 6th round pick (187th overall, Evan Spencer) and 2016 6th round pick (187th overall, Nate Sudfeld) to Redskinsfor 2015 5th round pick (167th overall, Damian Swann)

 

2014 Draft

Mar 14, 2012: Redskins traded 2014 1st round pick (2nd overall, Greg Robinson), 2012 1st round pick (6th overall subsequently traded, Morris Claiborne), 2012 2nd round pick (39th overall, Janoris Jenkins) and 2013 1st round pick (22nd overall subsequently traded, Desmond Trufant) to Rams for 2012 1st round pick (2nd overall, Robert Griffin)

May 9, 2014: Redskins traded 2014 2nd round pick (34th overall, Demarcus Lawrence) to Cowboys for 2014 3rd round pick (78th overall, Spencer Long) and 2014 2nd round pick (47th overall, Trent Murphy)

May 10, 2014: Titans traded 2014 6th round pick (186th overall, Lache Seastrunk) and 2014 7th round pick (228th overall, Zach Hocker) to Redskins for 2014 6th round pick (178th overall, Zach Mettenberger)

 

2013 Draft

Jul 29, 2011: Patriots traded 2013 5th round pick (162nd overall, Brandon Jenkins) to Redskins for Albert Haynesworth

Mar 14, 2012: Redskins traded 2014 1st round pick (2nd overall, Greg Robinson), 2012 1st round pick (6th overall subsequently traded, Morris Claiborne), 2012 2nd round pick (39th overall, Janoris Jenkins) and 2013 1st round pick (22nd overall subsequently traded, Desmond Trufant) to Rams for 2012 1st round pick (2nd overall, Robert Griffin)

Aug 27, 2012: Lions traded an undisclosed 2013 draft pick (not exercised) to Redskins for Kevin Barnes

 

2012

Apr 24, 2010: Raiders traded 2012 4th round pick (109th overall subsequently traded, Alameda Ta'amu) to Redskins for Jason Campbell

Jul 28, 2011: Vikings traded 2012 6th round pick (173rd overall, Alfred Morris) to Redskins for Donovan McNabb

Aug 1, 2011: Redskins traded Vonnie Holliday and 2012 6th round pick (177th overall, Justin Bethel) to Cardinals for Tim Hightower

Mar 14, 2012: Rams traded 2012 1st round pick (2nd overall, Robert Griffin) to Redskins for 2014 1st round pick (2nd overall, Greg Robinson), 2012 1st round pick (6th overall subsequently traded, Morris Claiborne), 2012 2nd round pick (39th overall, Janoris Jenkins) and 2013 1st round pick (22nd overall subsequently traded, Desmond Trufant)

Apr 27, 2012: Redskins traded 2012 3rd round pick (69th overall, T.J. Graham) to Bills for 2012 3rd round pick (71st overall, Josh LeRibeus) and 2012 7th round pick (217th overall, Jordan Bernstine)

Apr 28, 2012: Redskins traded 2012 4th round pick (109th overall, Alameda Ta'amu) to Steelers for 2012 4th round pick (119th overall, Keenan Robinson) and 2012 6th round pick (193rd overall, Tom Compton)

 

2011

Jun 21, 2010: Saints traded Jammal Brown and 2011 5th round pick (155th overall, Niles Paul) to Redskins for 2011 3rd round pick (72nd overall, Martez Wilson)

Sep 4, 2010: Colts traded 2011 7th round pick (224th overall, Markus White) to Redskins for Justin Tryon

Apr 28, 2011: Jaguars traded 2011 1st round pick (16th overall, Ryan Kerrigan) and 2011 2nd round pick (49th overall subsequently traded, Ben Ijalana) to Redskins for 2011 1st round pick (10th overall, Blaine Gabbert)

Apr 29, 2011: Redskins traded 2011 2nd round pick (49th overall, Ben Ijalana) to Colts for 2011 2nd round pick (53rd overall subsequently traded, Stephen Paea) and 2011 5th round pick (152nd overall subsequently traded, T.J. Yates)

Apr 29, 2011: Redskins traded 2011 2nd round pick (53rd overall, Stephen Paea) to Bears for 2011 2nd round pick (62nd overall subsequently traded, Daniel Thomas) and 2011 4th round pick (127th overall subsequently traded, Roc Carmichael)

Apr 29, 2011: Redskins traded 2011 2nd round pick (62nd overall, Daniel Thomas) to Dolphins for 2011 7th round pick (217th overall, Maurice Hurt), 2011 3rd round pick (79th overall, Leonard Hankerson) and 2011 5th round pick (146th overall, DeJon Gomes)

Apr 30, 2011: Texans traded 2011 4th round pick (105th overall, Roy Helu) and 2011 6th round pick (178th overall, Aldrick Robinson) to Redskinsfor 2011 4th round pick (127th overall, Roc Carmichael), 2011 5th round pick (144th overall, Shiloh Keo) and 2011 5th round pick (152nd overall, T.J. Yates)

 

2010

Apr 5, 2010: Redskins traded 2010 2nd round pick (37th overall, Nate Allen) and 2010 4th round pick (104th overall subsequently traded, Alterraun Verner) to Eagles for Donovan McNabb

Apr 21, 2010: Rams traded Adam Carriker, 2010 5th round pick (163rd overall subsequently traded, Reshad Jones) and 2010 7th round pick (208th overall subsequently traded, Thomas Welch) to Redskins for 2010 5th round pick (135th overall subsequently traded, Dominique Franks) and 2010 7th round pick (211th overall, Marquis Johnson)

Apr 24, 2010: Dolphins traded 2010 6th round pick (174th overall, Dennis Morris) and 2010 7th round pick (219th overall, Terrence Austin) to Redskins for 2010 5th round pick (163rd overall, Reshad Jones)

Apr 24, 2010: Patriots traded 2010 7th round pick (229th overall, Erik Cook) and 2010 7th round pick (231st overall, Selvish Capers) to Redskinsfor 2010 7th round pick (208th overall, Thomas Welch)

 

Trying to take out the names we wind up with something that looks like this: 

 - 1st for 1st and 6th next year (drop 1 spot)

 - 5th for 4th next year 

 - 4th for 2 5ths (current and next year)

 - 6th and 7th for 6th and 7th (similar average picks but looks like a small net gain for us)

 - 6th for a player and 7th

 - 1st for 1st and 6th next year (drop 1 spot)

 - 4th for 2 5ths (current and next year)

 - 5th for 4th next year

 - 3rd for 3rd (drop 26 spots), 4th, 5th and 6th

 - 5th for 2 6ths

 - 3 1sts, 2 2nds for 1st

 - 2nd for 2nd and 3rd

 - 6th for 6th and 7th

 - player for 5th

 - 3 1sts, 2 2nds for 1st

 - player for 4th

 - player for 6th

 - player and 6th for player

 - 3 1sts, 2 2nds for 1st

 - 3rd for 3rd (drop 2 spots) and 7th 

 - 3rd for player and 5th

 - player for 7th

 - 1st for 1st (drop 6 spots) and 2nd

 - 2nd for 2nd (drop 4 spots) and 5th

 - 2nd for 7th, 3rd, and 5th

 - 4th, 5th and 5th for 4th and 6th

 - 2nd and 4rd for player

 - 5th and 7th for player, 5th and 7th

 - 5th for 6th and 7th

 - 7th for 2 7ths

 

In terms of moves that look the most like what I expect from us this year, I go back to the 2011 draft with Blane Gabbert who many thought we would go after. Instead we traded down with the Jaguars, picked up a second and still got Kerrigan. In hindsight we could have gotten J.J. Watt, but Kerrigan is not a bad pickup himself. That said, we didn't do much with that second round pick. 

 

There were also some pretty good moves like trading players (who were likely to be cut) for picks (player for 7th comes to mind). I wonder if there are any possible deals like that looming. It'd be interesting to see players who are on our roster and potential cuts who other teams may be intersted in. For it to be a comparable move It'd probably have to be somebody who's on a multi-year deal but whose contract won't hurt us too bad from a salary cap perspective. I kinda wonder if a guy like D. Everett could be somebody in that field, or maybe one of the backup offensive linemen, or a LB? 

 

Then there's the move that traded for a player who was about to be cut for almost no cost on our end other than swapping picks. This is kinda the reverse position of what I just named, but I'm sure our front office is talking to other teams and listening to the trade block hearing from potential teams saying that they know guys on our roster who they wanted but couldn't get in the draft. 

 

Then there are the straight up draft moves. We haven't been as active in the first round - namely because we haven't had the picks because of the RG3 trade. But what we also see is a general trend towards trading down and increasing picks, or for higher rounds in later drafts. I remember the 3rd for 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th and being excited because (a) it was one of the few times (other than 2008) that we had done such a move in the draft and (b) it seemed like a real good deal - going from an early 3rd rounder to a late 3rd and picking up a 4th, 5th, 6th. Those are the kinds of moves I like to see. What it seems like is that we're a lot more willing / able to deal 3rd rounders than other high picks. And the picks lower than 3rd rounders are kinda used to balance the equation on both sides more than anything. 

 

So I kinda feel optimistic that we'll have more than the set 8 picks we have right now and even if we stay at 13 because somebody drops I can see us dropping in the second or third to pick up some picks. Hopefully our new front office and stable coaching staff will help us to have gotten agreement on the style of players we like and will be using to help increase the number of players who stay with the team long term though. 

[zoony]

Maybe we could start choosing players based on their lack of injury history.

 

Really tired of all our talent being on IR every single year.  The ones not on ir are constantly battling injury

 

We take jonathan allem.. he is no doubt talented... but injury history and sure enough on IR.  Morgan moses goes down after every play.  Trent williams is questinable every game

 

Meanwhile, im watching the oline for the Pats or the dline for the eagles and its the same guys every week, battling in the trenches, no big deal

 

What good is a jordan reed if hes camping on IR?  Prediction... jonathan allen goes on ir again next year.  Meanwhile, fletcher cox...

[skinny21]

Just realized that I’ve been neglecting AJ Francis when talking about the dline.  I could see him becoming a solid contributor for us.  Makes me feel a bit better about DE in our base and depth for Ioannidas/Allen in nickel.  

 

Also, for all the talk/mentions that Tomsula doesn’t like big NTs, we did pursue Logan and picked up Taylor last year...

 

Factoring those two things in, I’m even more hopeful we land a (good) NT in the draft. 

 

Was hiping we’d get to see Smithson play some FS and flash for us.  I like Nicholson a lot, but it would be nice to know we have quality depth there. 

 

If we felt good/better about FS, draft a NT, and re-sign Brown... I think we’d only be missing competition at the other ILB spot and more depth at corner and OLB (and maybe dline and SS).  

 

A healthy D with a bit more run stopping power could mean a pretty big step forward for that side of the ball.  That also allows them to focus more on offense with the other early-mid round picks, and add depth in later rounds.  

 

To @Thinking Skins‘s point, moving around a bit in the draft could be a big help to us as we look for that added depth and a potential back, G/C, receiver and (IMO) TE. 

[zoony]

As a general statement, the redskins roster is filled with JAGs.  The two times weve been at the top of the draft weve taken a guard and a tackle.  They are good and all, i guess.  Just wonder if you cant fill those spots with serviceable 2nd and 3rd round picks, and take truly explosive game impacting players at the top of the first round.  Players who actually touch the ball would be nice.

[Bobby Peppers]

23 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I consider Allen and Ioannidas our starting DTs in our Nickel package.  On top of that, we saw what happened when those guys went out - the wheels fell off on D.  They need support and capable backups.  So no, I don’t think I’m underrating them.  

 

On the other hand, when we lost an olineman (and then six more or whatever), we didn’t see a massive drop in our ypc, so I’ve got bolstering the dline as more crucial than LG.  Yes, our ground game needs to take a big step forward, but I’m not sure what will help the most - a new LG, a better back, a better TE, or what.  I’m leaning toward RB, then TE, then LG, priority-wise.  We also need depth on the line.  

 

With that said, I’m not necessarily looking for a DT.  A NT would be great (maybe better), as well as a DE to compete with the guys we have.  Hopefully we can add a dlineman that has some versatility (and the talent to start.  We have to improve the run D.  

 

Not sure about your last sentence - shouldn’t we be looking to improve all areas?  Isn’t upgrading from Perine/Kelley and Hood (at NT) fit your okay to great idea?

 

Maybe you’re just saying LG is more important because we don’t have one (unless you count Catalina and Kalis).  I can get on board with that, but they could always sign Long or Bergstrom at C and move Roullier to G.  Or they could bring in a cheaper vet or find a G in the 3rd (or late rounds like Roullier).  

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to add a stud LG - my primary focus is upgrading the lines - I just don’t think there will be a viable option in the 1st... or at least not one that grades higher than the defenders likely to be available.  

 

Probably all a moot point as they’ll go with Rudolph.

 

I agree with almost everything you said here. Very often fans will suggest we need to  take position X in the first round without knowing if there are any impact players worthy of the draft position. You need to get an impact player in the first round otherwise it's a wasted pick. That being said, there is a Guard this year that is worthy of a top 15 selection. That is Quinton Nelson who is ranked 9th overall in Todd McShay's big board and 8th on Kiper's. His biggest asset is that he's a road grader who would immediately help the running game.  I'm not saying their evaluations are the end all be all but it's a good reference point. At our 13th pick, we can't select any players who aren't considered top 15  talents regardless of position. 

[Bobby Peppers]

16 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Good article comparing Vea to Ngata. I will be doing defensive tape in Feb at some point. Cant wait to watch it:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-is-vita-vea-the-next-haloti-ngata

Curious to see how he ranks against the other big NT talents who were drafted in the first round in recent drafts. Danny Shelton and Phil Taylor come to mind. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

In terms of moves that look the most like what I expect from us this year, I go back to the 2011 draft with Blane Gabbert who many thought we would go after. Instead we traded down with the Jaguars, picked up a second and still got Kerrigan.

 

Good analysis.  Thinking about this some and remembering the narratives.  The 2nd round which is often a great round to score a stud -- hasn't been kind to us.  A lot of us here over the years talk about 2nd round prospects and guys that could fall there.  But the upshot with this team specifically isn't pretty in that round.

 

I recall the charm supposedly of the trade down in 2011 was J. Jenkins being the goods in the 2nd round.  I recall Shanny talking up how there is typically a run on defensive tackles in the 2nd and felt he had to get his.

 

The trade down in 2014 with Dallas of all teams yielded them D. Lawrence who was arguably the best pass rusher in the league this year.  We traded down in the 2nd and got Trent Murphy who really has only had one good year and has mostly been just a guy otherwise. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000348892/article/cowboys-trade-up-to-pick-demarcus-lawrence-at-no-34

The Dallas Cowboys found much-needed help for their beleaguered front seven.The Cowboys traded up with the Redskins to select Boise State defensive end Demarcus Lawrence with the No. 34 overall pick in the 2014 NFL Draft.

 

Dave Amerson didn't make it.  Su'a Craven's looks to be headed out.    We got the infamous Vinny draft where they took Davis, Kelly, Thomas in the 2nd round.  Ryan Anderson is off to a "meh" start.

 

How many different ways can an organization strike out in a key round like that?  Thinking about it the most rousing success we got cooking as a 2nd rounder right now in recent history is Preston Smith.

 

I used to be a big trade down guy.  But I am not sure what the heck they are going to do successfully if they land a 2nd rounder in a trade down.