2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Thinking Skins]

@Skinsinparadise I agree, in fact when you compare our second rounders to third and fourth rounders its kinda worth the argument to say that we should just trade out of the second all together and into the third. 

 

2017	2	Ryan Anderson	49	OLB	2017	0	0	0	1	14														Alabama
2017	3	Fabian Moreau	81	CB	2017	0	0	0	1	16														UCLA
2017	4	Samaje Perine	114	RB	2017	0	0	1	5	16						175	603	1	22	182	1			Oklahoma
2017	4	Montae Nicholson	123	S	2017	0	0	0	3	8												1		Michigan St.

 

Winner Round 4. 

 

2016	2	Su'a Cravens	53	OLB	2016	0	0	0	2	11												1	1.0	USC
2016	3	Kendall Fuller	84	CB	2017	0	0	0	6	29												4		Virginia Tech

 

Winner Round 3

 

2015	2	Preston Smith	38	DE	2017	0	0	2	17	48												3	20.5	Mississippi St.
2015	3	Matt Jones	95	RB	2017	0	0	0	10	25						248	964	6	27	377	1			Florida
2015	4	Jamison Crowder	105	WR	2017	0	0	1	18	47	0	1	0	0	0	11	34	0	192	2240	12			Duke
2015	4	Arie Kouandjio	112	G	2017	0	0	0	4	17														Alabama

 

Winner Round 4 with round 2 coming as a not so distant second. 

2014	2	Trent Murphy	47	LB	2016	0	0	2	13	47													15.0	Stanford
2014	3	Morgan Moses	66	OL	2017	0	0	3	26	56														Virginia
2014	3	Spencer Long	78	G	2017	0	0	2	15	40														Nebraska
2014	4	Bashaud Breeland	102	DB	2017	0	0	4	21	60												8	1.0	Clemson
2014	5	Ryan Grant	142	WR	2017	0	0	0	7	64									84	985	6			Tulane

 

Winner Round 3 with Moses or Round 4 with Breeland

 

2013	2	David Amerson	51	DB	2017	0	0	4	19	68												8		North Carolina St.
2013	3	Jordan Reed	85	TE	2017	0	1	1	21	52						1	18	0	275	2813	22			Florida
2013	4	Phillip Thomas	119	DB	2014	0	0	0	2	8														Fresno St.

 

Winner Round 3 with Reed

 

We can keep going back. I wonder about this because I saw an article last week speaking about how round 4 is our best round. The thing is that I'm guessing that in the second we're looking at players that "dropped" out of the first (who may not be the guys we covet) vs players who could go later. This was the argument with Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly, players that had first round grades but were available in the second. Question was why. Counter that with the philosophy (at least what it seems like) for the last few years which is that for lower rounds we seem to still be going by our draft board. 

 

I also think there's a problem with luck of the draw vs injury history. We've been trying to find steals for a while with guys like Moreau, Fuller, Lache, etc - drafting guys who have been injured but have the ability to be stars if healthy. But unfortuately we aren't always able to win that one. 

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, Bobby Peppers said:

I agree with almost everything you said here. Very often fans will suggest we need to  take position X in the first round without knowing if there are any impact players worthy of the draft position. You need to get an impact player in the first round otherwise it's a wasted pick. That being said, there is a Guard this year that is worthy of a top 15 selection. That is Quinton Nelson who is ranked 9th overall in Todd McShay's big board and 8th on Kiper's. His biggest asset is that he's a road grader who would immediately help the running game.  I'm not saying their evaluations are the end all be all but it's a good reference point. At our 13th pick, we can't select any players who aren't considered top 15  talents regardless of position. 

Agree about Nelson, I'm just assuming he's gone by our pick.  The other oline men rated highly mostly all seem to be tackles.  

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

@Skinsinparadise I agree, in fact when you compare our second rounders to third and fourth rounders its kinda worth the argument to say that we should just trade out of the second all together and into the third.

 

We can keep going back. I wonder about this because I saw an article last week speaking about how round 4 is our best round. The thing is that I'm guessing that in the second we're looking at players that "dropped" out of the first (who may not be the guys we covet) vs players who could go later. This was the argument with Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly, players that had first round grades but were available in the second. Question was why. Counter that with the philosophy (at least what it seems like) for the last few years which is that for lower rounds we seem to still be going by our draft board. 

 

I also think there's a problem with luck of the draw vs injury history. We've been trying to find steals for a while with guys like Moreau, Fuller, Lache, etc - drafting guys who have been injured but have the ability to be stars if healthy. But unfortuately we aren't always able to win that one. 

 

D. Thomas was all over the mocks I recall anywhere from mid to late first round.  Kelly though as the process get closer to the end wasn't really a first round guy at all in mocks, I recall some had him in the third.   Fred Davis was about right as for the mocks -- 2nd rd.

 

I like Ryan Anderson but metric wise he was a risk -- typically pass rushers with both short arms and are slow for the position don't make it.   Su'a looked decent in his rookie year but personality wise he clearly seems to be a flake.    Amerson I recall had a mediocre season, his last year in college, his bigger season was the one before. 

 

Yeah I am sure there is a rational for everything.  And there is definitely a luck aspect to it all.  But I find it ironic that the round that a lot of us get especially excited about (me included) collecting is 2nd rounders.   Hopefully they fix this or their luck changes. 

 

Giants traded up for Landon Collins, Vikings for Dalvin Cook.  Maybe more of this is needed here.  Collins and Cook were considered bonafide 1st rounders by draft geeks.  Not so much the case with guys like Amerson, Cravens, Anderson, Murphy, Jenkins, etc.  The Cowboys traded up with us and got Lawrence. I am just spitballing here but wonder if there is some merit to aggressively go after guys you really love in the 2nd.   In their defense, some said that they were trying to trade up for Reuben Foster at the end of the first round but got outbid by SF.  

 

Grant mocks-draft geek types don't always match up to reality.  But the ones close to draft day often end up within the ballpark.   

[Thinking Skins]

@Skinsinparadise, I agree with a lot of this stuff from a general perspective, and I'll add that while I'm not a draft expert, I do my fair share of reading and way too often when I read up on the Skins picks its never a guy who would be on Mel's top remaining guys, or even a guy who I've heard about. And this kinda goes back to the Charlie Casserly drafts. I remember getting Greg Jones and Kenard Lang even Rob Gardner and thinking that they weren't guys who I had heard a ton about. I think about some of our lower rounders and its that but I can remember thinking (at draft time) this guy will be a special teamer and his max is to be a rotational defensive player, and that's kinda what we've been getting. Way too often they don't have the measurables, or they're slow (way too often its both), but its something like "has a great motor" or "was team captain" and so I felt like what @zoony just said about being a team full of JAGs was really true about our draft picks.

 

That said, I look at the strategy we had with Norv - draft and mediocre free agency. We had a decent QB in Gus, good backs in Allen and Davis, and a good (big) OL, TEs in Asher and Alexander, etc. Problem then was our defenses and we never invested in good players or developed the players. But with our system under Norv we were able to develop our guys on offense and while Asher was never an all pro, he was somebody that helped us to move the chains. Same can be said about guys like Cory Raymer, Albert Connell, and a bunch of the guys we drafted on offense. 

 

Turn over to the defense and you've got the opposite. Even with Haslett who is the longest tenured DC we've had here in a while (was it 5 years), we still were not able to find players that fit our system, or plug players into our scheme and develop them. Thats what impressed me the most about Manusky is that in his first year of defense he seemed to find a way to use the parts to sum to a good defense on a lot of weeks (or for a lot of the game). 

- And its kinda sad because in the end the numbers look a lot like they have on previous years, but to me Matt Ioannidis and Kedric Golston are the same guy 10 years apart (5th and 6th rounder in their respective drafts). But we were able to develop one into a (lets not make him an all pro) player that put up a year that Golston never came close to.

 - We drafted Fred Smoot, but he was a second rounder. Who else has been a non-first rounder at CB who has come in and played well. We've now done that with Breeland and Dunbar and Fuller.

 - OLB is a kinda sore spot because we could have done better had we picked up Lawrence (raises a question of where we'd be had we not traded back and got Moses & Long), but we were able to draft Smith & Murphy and develop them especially Murphy.

 - ILB is still a problem in the draft. Robinson looked good but injuries kept him from contributing. 

 - Funny as it sounds S has been a rare position where we've been at least playing guys we drafted. But its what I said earlier. Reed Doughty was a guy who was a teamer and we knew that if he needed to play defense for long periods we were in trouble. But even with that said, Nicholson looked good last year but how long have we been experimenting at S? Everett looked good enough last year that I dont doubt he can make the roster as a backup or as I mentioned earlier potentially be trade bait for a low rounder (remember Justin Tyron). 

 

Part of this is due to a pure change in philosophy. Since Gruden came we've been really more pro-draft and less reliant on signing the aging vets to give it one last hoo-rah. That said though, I'm seeing potential on defense where we have young guys actually competing for starting time and developing into players where objective metrics (PFF) say they're good players (and not just teamers). 

[Rufus T Firefly]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

https://www.hogshaven.com/2017/12/13/16771700/nfl-salary-cap-to-increase-to-at-least-174-178-million-in-2018-redskins-nfl

According the Overthecap, the Redskins have $55.5 million in cap space next year based on a salary cap of $180 million(the team also has ~$3 million that can be carried over from 2017). This does not include several key players that could be re-signed including Cousins, Zach Brown, Spencer Long, Ryan Grant and others. The Redskins also have several players who could be released after this season for significant cap savings like Niles Paul($1.875 million), Ziggy Hood($1.25 million), and others.

 

First off, those numbers that site are  using are a little funky. The cap is projected to be between 174-178 mil (most expect the higher end), so just calling it 180 seems a bit pie-in-the-sky. And over the cap already has added in the rollover to their projections, which is more like 1.7 mil, not 3 (It was expected to be over 6, btw, but that all got eaten up replacing injured players, which is the reality you have to prepare for and leave a bunch of space unused, which is part of my projections for the real amount of space we have). The differences are relatively small numbers, but the article you're quoting seems to be gifting us extra space while acting like he's being conservative with it, which he isn't.

 

Paul isn't under contract for next year, either. He's quoting last year's cap figure as a potential cut, which obviously doesn't work. Hood's savings after he's replaced by a minimum salary player would be maybe 700K. They say there are "several" players we could cut for "significant" cap savings, but don't actually identify any. Realistically, the two options are Reed (4.7 mil assuming pre June 1) or McCoy (3).

 

Over the cap has us with about 52.1 mil in space after the rollover. They haven't posted the Dunbar contract, for the record, which means we start out at probably a bit under 50 mil by their numbers. Spotrac gives us a bit more than a million more than that.

 

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not at all.  And this is before shedding a dime of cap space.  Other teams can shed 50 million or so and we can't find 5 million or so?  But even if we didn't we adMy point on the Saints was in response to a post that alleged that the Saints likely had more cap room than we did to start 2017 and that helped their rebuild.  My point there is they actually had significantly less cap room than we had.  And their surge wasn't about FA last season but primarily about the draft. 

I would agree that their offseason was more about the draft, but signing Ginn, Warford, Klein and Te'o were pretty big too.

 

According to this article https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2017/2/21/14635192/new-orleans-saints-free-agency-predictions-2017  the Saints went into last offseason with about 30 mil in space before they cut Byrd and saved about 8 more. They have another article later which I won't bother to quote which suggests the number went up after the final cap total was announced by the league.

 

Again, I don't have much interest in a debate about the Saints, but the didn't have an expensive QB to resign. You can claim they started last offseason with technically less available cap than we do now, but in terms of real flexibility they appear to have been in much, much better shape than we are now.

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not at all.  And this is before shedding a dime of cap space.  Other teams can shed 50 million or so and we can't find 5 million or so?  But even if we didn't we add a dime of cap space that way.  If I recall we are in in the top 10 right now as for having room.  Yeah Kirk and Zach take up a lot of it.  But there is still room to play with.  

Again, my response was in regards to you saying we had "plenty" of space even if Cousins and Brown's combined figures were 35 mil. Using about 50 mil in space to start with, we don't. The remainder just covers basics and emergencies. 

 

If you want to "shed" amounts of cap space, where? Are you dumping Norman? Restructuring and pushing hits into the future? People don't post about expecting the team to "find" extra draft choices, so a cap discussion should be based on real numbers.

 

The team's realistic options this year are to backload deals, borrowing from the future to "go for it" for a year or two (Hey, maybe we can go 10-6!) or else this offseason, and probably next year too, are more about who we lose than who we add, FA-wise. 

 

This assumes re-signing Kirk, of course. If not, we have a different set of realities to deal with.

[skinny21]

Wrong thread for it, but... we don’t have much in the way of FAs next year.  Preston Smith is the big one and then McCoy, Hood, Francis and Spaight are the ‘notable’ ones.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Wrong thread for it, but... we don’t have much in the way of FAs next year.  Preston Smith is the big one and then McCoy, Hood, Francis and Spaight are the ‘notable’ ones.  

Crowder. Everett and Nsekhe most likely. And it depends on who we sign to one-year deals. Obviously assuming we pick up the option of Scherff.

[skinny21]

2 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Crowder. Everett and Nsekhe most likely. And it depends on who we sign to one-year deals. Obviously assuming we pick up the option of Scherff.

I can understand why Nsheke isn’t on Spotrac being a RFA this year (is Everett one too?), but Crowder isn’t on there.  Weird.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

5 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I can understand why Nsheke isn’t on Spotrac being a RFA this year (is Everett one too?), but Crowder isn’t on there.  Weird.  

Yeah, they're both RFAs, which is why I say it's likely they'll be free net year (always possible we non-tender or sign them to multi-year deals).

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

According to this article https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2017/2/21/14635192/new-orleans-saints-free-agency-predictions-2017  the Saints went into last offseason with about 30 mil in space before they cut Byrd and saved about 8 more.

 

I pulled an article that showed 20 million and posted it here.  But regardless, you are unintentionally taking my points out of context.  My post wasn't some expose about the Saints and their cap situation.  I made the point that the draft primarily drove the Saints climb in 2017.  Someone responded that they had a much more favorable cap situation than we do in 2018 and that was a key driver of it.

 

My point on that front is I don't see how the Saints cap situation was that rosy.  Heading to FA, we currently have a bunch more cap room than them -- obviously that's before the Kirk contract if that ever comes.  But yeah I didn't see the Saints having much more cap room as a key driver to their success compared to what we got cooking in 2018 -- that specifically was the context of the discussion.

 

If you disagree that's fine.  With all respect, I got no interest in debating it further because I don't really care even a little about the Saints mastery or non-mastery of the cap.  I am just staying on the record that their draft was the game changer for them -- not 2018 cap space.  Aside from Warford, I don't see the other guys as being much in their surge.   When the typical person talks Saints surge its Kamara, Lattimore, M. Williams.  

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-orleans-saints/post/_/id/23235/drew-brees-deal-with-saints-creates-cap-space-in-2017-dead-money-in-2018

METAIRIE, La. -- The New Orleans Saints have become masters at manipulating the salary cap in recent years to keep pushing cap charges into the future.

The practice has drawn plenty of criticism for being short-sighted -- like signing up for a new credit card to pay off an old one. But the way the Saints figure it, they can catch up whenever Drew Brees is no longer on the books. They'll probably be in rebuilding mode then, anyway. And this allows them to stay competitive while Brees is still behind center.

 

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

If you want to "shed" amounts of cap space, where? Are you dumping Norman? Restructuring and pushing hits into the future? People don't post about expecting the team to "find" extra draft choices, so a cap discussion should be based on real numbers.

 

In my original post I said you can find 5 million. What team can't?  That's not exactly a big number. As for whom?  Depends on what happens in FA and or in the draft.  If you got rid of Hood-McGee that's almost 3 million.  Should you?  I don't know.  Depends on what else they do.  But I am not exactly shooting high with a 5 million figure.

 

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

The team's realistic options this year are to backload deals, borrowing from the future to "go for it" for a year or two

 

My point is their cap situation isn't that dire moving forward.  Heck even if you backload some on Kirk's contract...it's not exactly the end of the world where you are going to strap yourself cap wise.

 

I am not much of a Bruce guy but one thing I like about him (aside from his stubborness on sticking to the same principle on the Kirk contract) is the contracts are short as to guaranteed money.  So the cap situation is fluid.   Don't take this point literally -- i am just using it to bring my point home -- that is, losing a franchise QB because you are worried about whether you can keep both Mason Foster and Niles Paul or whatever or worrying about having one player with some backloaded money in his contract -- IMO is short sighted. 

 

We can bring back every freaking FA we got:  Niles Paul, Quinn, Foster, Ryan Grant, Chis Carter, Mason Foster the whole exciting crew -- if its that full crowd and Colt McCoy.  My level of excitement about 2018 on a level of 0-100 is 0.

[Rufus T Firefly]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I pulled an article that showed 20 million and posted it here.  But regardless, you are unintentionally taking my points out of context.  My post wasn't some expose about the Saints and their cap situation.  I made the point that the draft primarily drove the Saints climb in 2017.  Someone responded that they had a much more favorable cap situation than we do in 2018 and that was a key driver of it.

 

I don't want to get any further int it. It doesn't belong here and it's not something I think other of us feels is crucial. But the Saints really were in a better situation than us. Not more space to start, but a better situation. There's a difference. And Klein, Ginn and Te'o were all starters for them. 

 

My main point was that we don't have an advantageous cap situation. The next couple offseason will probably be about minimizing losses. Unless, again, we get crazy with backloading. Personally, I don't think this has anything to do with whether or not we can re-sign Cousins.

 

And we can't release McGee, btw. His salary is guaranteed this year. Bruce, the cap wizard, did that (snark not really aimed at you).

 

That's enough on this, I feel.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

On 1/19/2018 at 1:28 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

JP Finlay just doubled down on something he said about a week ago.  That is, from the people he has spoken to at Redskins Park, "they like Mason Rudolph a lot."

 

I think JP Finlay had some strong opinions about what we'd do the last two drafts.  Saying people in the building really liked "X, Y, or Z".  Can anyone remember who those people were and if we drafted them if they were on available for our picks?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I don't want to get any further int it. It doesn't belong here and it's not something I think other of us feels is crucial. But the Saints really were in a better situation than us. Not more space to start, but a better situation. There's a difference. And Klein, Ginn and Te'o were all starters for them. 

 

My main point was that we don't have an advantageous cap situation. The next couple offseason will probably be about minimizing losses. Unless, again, we get crazy with backloading. Personally, I don't think this has anything to do with whether or not we can re-sign Cousins.

 

In good spirits, most of this isn't on point with the conversation I was having.  The  idea of an advantageous cap situation is taking a point I made out of context.  I referred to my lack of interest in many of the FAs we had and from what would be left IMO we had enough room.  It wasn't me making the point that lets say like the Browns we are loaded with cap space.  My point was in response to a post directed at me. They threw the Saints cap stuff at me.  I responded.  If you read the back and forth exchange -- you'd see what I mean.  But its neither here nor there.  But thanks for the discussion, always fun to talk football. 

 

As for talking about something that is more on point to my discussion,  I get your point about backloading.  I am not a big believer in it either.  And even if I ran with your point in totality about the cap -- I don't mind it as a necessary evil sometimes especially if its to secure a franchise QB.   I don't like it to backload veteran contracts like Vinny would do with Portis. etc

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I think JP Finlay had some strong opinions about what we'd do the last two drafts.  Saying people in the building really liked "X, Y, or Z".  Can anyone remember who those people were and if we drafted them if they were on available for our picks?

 

 I've talked about on this thread last year, I met with Scot as part of an auction.  He didn't tell me a ton about the draft but told me some things.  Finlay I recall in the off season nailed almost word for word what Scot told me.  For that reason, I thought two things about Finlay.  1.  He doesn't fly things against the wall unless he heard it.  2. He had a pipeline to Scot.    So when he says he's been told by people in the front office -- I believe him.  Having said that, opinions can change and there is always an off chance they are purposely misleading him.  But if I put money on it, I'd say Finlay genuinely heard it and whomever told him that was legit.

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In good spirits, most of this isn't on point with the conversation I was having. 

As I said when I first responded to you, I wasn't aware the context, and wasn't that concerned with looking into it. I just answered the idea of having "plenty" of cap. That  was all.  

[RemoveSnyder]

https://www.seniorbowl.com/fans-practice-schedule.php

Practice Schedule

 

Tuesday, January 23

1:30 pm – 3:00 pm (SOUTH)
3:30 pm – 5:00 pm (NORTH)

 

Wednesday, January 24

12:30 pm – 2:30 pm (NORTH)
3:00 pm – 5:00 pm (SOUTH)

 

Thursday, January 25

12:30 pm – 2:30 pm (NORTH)
3:00 pm – 5:00 pm (SOUTH)

 

*ALL PRACTICES OPEN TO PUBLIC AT LADD-PEEBLES STADIUM

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Monday 
Players arrival, press conference, Executive Director Phil Savage.

Tuesday 
Measurements: The official Senior Bowl weigh-in Tuesday morning.
Media Day: Media interview between 10:45 a.m. and 1:15 p.m. 
Practice: Teams practice separately, South Team from 1:30 p.m.- 3:00 p.m., North Team from 3:30 - 5:00 pm. Players speak to the media for 15 minutes after practice. 
Interviews between clubs and players take place in the evenings. 

Wednesday 
Practice: North Team from 12:30-2:30 and South Team from 3:00-5:00. Players speak to the media for 15 minutes after practice. 

Thursday 
Practice: North Team from 12:30-2:30 and South Team from 3:00-5:00. Players speak to the media for 15 minutes after practice. 

Saturday 
2:30 p.m. -- Reese’s Senior Bowl – NFL Network 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://www.nfl.com/network/schedule

 

• 1:00 PM

  SENIOR BOWL PRACTICE

  "2018 Reese's Senior Bowl Practice" - Coverage of Practice Day 1 from the Reese's Senior Bowl in Mobile, Alabama.

• 2:00 PM

  SENIOR BOWL PRACTICE

  "2018 Reese's Senior Bowl Practice" - Coverage of Practice Day 1 from the Reese's Senior Bowl in Mobile, Alabama.

• 3:00 PM

  SENIOR BOWL PRACTICE

  "2018 Reese's Senior Bowl Practice" - Coverage of Practice Day 1 from the Reese's Senior Bowl in Mobile, Alabama.

• 4:00 PM

  SENIOR BOWL PRACTICE

  "2018 Reese's Senior Bowl Practice" - Coverage of Practice Day 1 from the Reese's Senior Bowl in Mobile, Alabama.

• 5:00 PM

  SENIOR BOWL PRACTICE

   

[Skinsinparadise]

More

Josh Allen: 10 1/8 Luke Falk: 9 3/8 Tanner Lee: 10 1/8 Kurt Benkert: 9 5/8 Kyle Lauletta: 9 5/8 Mason Rudolph: 9 1/8* Brandon Silvers 9 1/8 Mike White: 9 3/8 Baker Mayfield has not yet arrived

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-scouting-combine-qb-hand-size-arkansas-razorbacks-brandon-allen-tony-romo-bridgewater-022216

The size of a quarterback’s hand has gained increased attention in the past few years. For my book "The QB: The Making of Modern Quarterbacks,” I spoke with Tom Rossley, who was the Green Bay Packers’ former offensive coordinator and later recruited Johnny Manziel to Texas A&M when he was the Aggies’ quarterbacks coach. Rossley said one of the first things they looked at when they evaluated quarterbacks in Green Bay was how big their hands were, "because of how Brett (Favre) was and how well he could play in cold weather,” Rossley said. “That’s such a key with handling the ball, controlling the ball, and with the snap coming out. The size of a quarterback’s hands is even more important than his height." 

 

Favre’s hands were measured by the NFL years ago (from thumb tip to pinkie tip) at 10 3⁄8 inches. For comparison’s sake, Tony Romo’s hand was measured at 8.88 inches. Anything bigger than 9 1⁄2 is considered large for an NFL QB prospect. 

 

...While many may figure the biggest issue with small hands manifests itself in fumbling, the coaches and personnel people FOX Sports spoke with say it’s really more about being able to grip and throw the ball in inclement weather. 

[wilco_holland]

Okay guys I give you 2 days to convince me on Josh Allen. What I see. A Philip Rivers player with bad feeling for moving in the pocket and very questionable accuracy. I say 4th to 5th round prospect. 

 

What I hear. 1st round maybe top 10. I don't get it. 

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

Okay guys I give you 2 days to convince me on Josh Allen. What I see. A Philip Rivers player with bad feeling for moving in the pocket and very questionable accuracy. I say 4th to 5th round prospect. 

 

What I hear. 1st round maybe top 10. I don't get it. 

 

Don't really see a Rivers comparison. I actually think that moving and getting away from pressure and make off-script plays is one of his main attributes so I'd say he's more like a Big Ben or Wentz. The questionable accuracy and decision making is fair though. But some of that may come from having to make so many off schedule plays because his OL was pretty much atrocious and he was pressured all the time. Big dude, cannon arm, very good at escaping pressure and making off schedule plays, questionable touch is one thing...he seems to rocket too many passes and when he needs touch it isn't as forthcoming. His numbers aren't all that impressive either. Didn't play all that well against their better opponents so that's a bit of a red flag. With him I think it is more about upside than "this guy is a day one star in the NFL". Played very well in the Potato Bowl though, so that probably helped his stock.

[Commander Adama]

On 1/22/2018 at 9:49 AM, zoony said:

As a general statement, the redskins roster is filled with JAGs.

 

So would you say we are just one JAG off?

[Skinsinparadise]

JP Finlay talking up the Redskins really like Rudolph.  Now this?  Destiny?  Just kidding.

 

JP Finlay‏Verified account @JPFinlayNBCS 2m2 minutes ago

More

Mason Rudolph grew up a #Redskins fan and his parents are friends with Joe Gibbs’ son. Rudolph called playing in Washington “a childhood dream.”

 

JP FinlayVerified account @JPFinlayNBCS

WKU QB Mike White told me he’s intvw‘d with #Redskins, said one of his “favorite interviews yet, we just talked ball the whole time.” Big arm, crazy numbers in 2016

Show this thread

 

 

 

Craig Hoffman‏Verified account @CraigHoffman 13m13 minutes ago

More

Just spent almost 10 minutes with Mason Rudolph. He had a good conversation with the Skins last night in the “speed dating” interview session. He actually grew up a Skins Fan. Is friends with Joe Gibbs grandson.

 

 

 

 

[RemoveSnyder]

 

SOUTH ROSTER
PLAYER	COLLEGE	POS	HGT	WGT	HAND	ARM	WING
Akins, Jordan	UCF	(TE)	6032	246	9 2/8	33 4/8	80 2/8
Ateman, Marcell	Oklahoma State	(WR)	6042	216	9	33 5/8	78 2/8
Bawden, Nick	San Diego State	(FB)	6017	244	9	30 3/8	72 6/8
Benkert, Kurt	Virginia	(QB)	6025	214	9 5/8	31 1/8	74 2/8
Blanding, Quin	Virginia	(S)	6020	209	8 1/8	31 6/8	75 2/8
Bozeman, Bradley	Alabama	(C)	6045	317	9 7/8	31 5/8	76 2/8
Breneman, Adam	UMass	(TE)	6040	241	9 3/8	32 1/8	77 2/8
Brown, Andrew	Virginia	(DE)	6034	294	9 1/8	35 1/8	82 3/8
Cappa, Alex	Humboldt State	(OT)	6055	299	9 1/8	33 1/8	77 6/8
Carlson, Daniel	Auburn	(K)	6050	213	10 1/8	31 3/8	75 3/8
Chark, DJ	LSU	(WR)	6025	196	9 2/8	33	78 7/8
Corbett, Austin	Nevada	(C)	6041	310	10 5/8	33 3/8	78 4/8
Davenport, Marcus	Texas-San Antonio	(DE)	6057	259	9	34	81 2/8
Fitts, Kylie	Utah	(DE)	6036	259	9 3/8	32 3/8	74 4/8
Ford, Poona	Texas	(DT)	5115	306	9 2/8	32 6/8	80 2/8
Gilmore, Greg	LSU	(DT)	6037	318	9 3/8	33 7/8	79 1/8
Goedert, Dallas	South Dakota State	(TE)	6044	260	10 1/8	33 7/8	79 5/8
Gossett, Colby	Appalachian State	(OG)	6046	304	10	33 2/8	80 2/8
Griffin, Shaquem	UCF	(OLB)	6002	223	9	31 5/8	66
Hand, Da’Shawn	Alabama	(DT)	6036	282	10	34 2/8	81
Harrison, Desmond	West Georgia	(OT)	6060	279	10 4/8	34 3/8	80 3/8
Haynes, Marquis	Ole Miss	(OLB)	6024	233	9 7/8	33	77 5/8
Hearn, Taylor	Clemson	(OG)	6045	319	8 2/8	33 3/8	76 3/8
Johnson, Danny	Southern	(CB)	5091	182	8 5/8	31 3/8	75 5/8
Kelly, Kameron	San Diego State	(CB)	6015	195	8 2/8	32 2/8	74 2/8
Kiser, Micah	Virginia	(ILB)	6003	236	9 2/8	31 7/8	76 7/8
LaCouture, Christian	LSU	(DT)	6043	290	10	30 2/8	75 1/8
Lauletta, Kyle	Richmond	(QB)	6025	217	9 5/8	30 6/8	76
Leonard, Darius	South Carolina State	(ILB)	6020	229	10 3/8	34 1/8	82
Matthews, Tray	Auburn	(S)	6003	209	8 2/8	33 1/8	78 1/8
Moore, J’Mon	Missouri	(WR)	6025	209	9 2/8	33 4/8	79 4/8
Neal, Siran	Jacksonville State	(CB)	6000	206	9 7/8	31 1/8	75 7/8
Noteboom, Joseph	TCU	(OT)	6051	306	9 4/8	35 4/8	83 2/8
Nwosu, Uchenna	USC	(OLB)	6020	245	9 2/8	33 4/8	79
O’Daniel, Dorian	Clemson	(ILB)	6004	215	9 3/8	31 1/8	76 2/8
Parker, Brandon	North Carolina A&T	(OT)	6072	303	9 5/8	35 3/8	85 2/8
Penny, Rashaad	San Diego State	(RB)	5110	224	9 1/8	31 4/8	75 3/8
Phillips, Skyler	Idaho State	(OG)	6024	314	9 5/8	32 5/8	78
Powell, Ike	Auburn	(LS)	6024	244	10 2/8	31 7/8	77 2/8
Pringle, Byron	Kansas State	(WR)	6010	201	9 1/8	31 5/8	77 1/8
Ragnow, Frank	Arkansas	(C)	6047	307	9 1/8	32 2/8	79 4/8
Reaves, Jeremy	South Alabama	(S)	5105	204	7 6/8	30 3/8	71 4/8
Rudolph, Mason	Oklahoma State	(QB)	6041	229	9 1/8	32 4/8	78 6/8
Scott, JK	Alabama	(P)	6052	207	9 5/8	32 3/8	80 1/8
Silvers, Brandon	Troy	(QB)	6023	224	9 1/8	29 4/8	73 3/8
Smith, Ito	Southern Mississippi	(RB)	5090	201	9 3/8	28 7/8	73 1/8
Smith, Tre’Quan	UCF	(WR)	6015	202	9	34 4/8	79 5/8
Stewart, M.J.	North Carolina	(CB)	5105	198	9 3/8	31 4/8	75 1/8
Sullivan, Chandon	Georgia State	(CB)	5105	190	8	32 4/8	75 6/8
Thomas, Ian	Indiana	(TE)	6033	256	9 5/8	33 1/8	80
Wade, D’Montre	Murray State	(CB)	5112	201	9 5/8	32 5/8	78 1/8
Wallace, Levi	Alabama	(CB)	6003	176	9	33 3/8	77 2/8
Washington, James	Oklahoma State	(WR)	5107	210	9 5/8	33 7/8	77 6/8
White, Mike	Western Kentucky	(QB)	6041	221	9 3/8	32 5/8	77 5/8
Williams, Darrel	LSU	(RB)	5110	229	9 1/8	30 7/8	73
Williams, Tre’	Auburn	(ILB)	6016	238	9 2/8	32 4/8	74 6/8
Wynn, Isaiah	Georgia	(OG)	6024	308	8 4/8	33 1/8	79 1/8

NORTH ROSTER
PLAYER	COLLEGE	POS	HGT	WGT	HAND	ARM	WING
Allen, Josh	Wyoming	(QB)	6047	237	10 1/8	33 4/8
Allen, Marcus	Penn State	(S)	6021	215	9 3/8	30 4/8	74
Badgley, Michael	Miami	(K)	5095	186	8 6/8	29 1/8	69 7/8
Ballage, Kalen	Arizona State	(RB)	6021	222	9 6/8	33 2/8	77
Bentley, Ja’Whaun	Purdue	(OLB)	6015	252	9 4/8	32 2/8	77
Berrios, Braxton	Miami	(WR)	5085	177	9 2/8	28 1/8	68
Campbell, Christian	Penn State	(CB)	6005	192	8 5/8	32 4/8	80
Carew, Tanner	Oregon	(LS)	6012	241	9 4/8	31 6/8	76 7/8
Cole, Mason	Michigan	(C)	6042	303	9 7/8	32 2/8	79 3/8
Conklin, Tyler	Central Michigan	(TE)	6027	252	9 6/8	33 2/8	77 6/8
Crosby, Tyrell	Oregon	(OT)	6047	319	10 7/8	34 3/8	82 2/8
Dawson, Duke	Florida	(CB)	5100		8 4/8	30 7/8	74 5/8
DeLuca, Nick	North Dakota State	(ILB)	6027	243	10 1/8	33 4/8	79 2/8
Demby, Jamil	Maine	(OT)	6045	323	10	34	79 5/8
Dooley, Garrett	Wisconsin	(OLB)	6017	248	10 3/8	32 5/8	76 4/8
Falk, Luke	Washington State	(QB)	6036	211	9 3/8	32 1/8	77 6/8
Flowers, Dimitri	Oklahoma	(FB)	6016	253	9 2/8	31	75 3/8
Fumagalli, Troy	Wisconsin	(TE)	6047	247	9 5/8	32 2/8	75 3/8
Gallup, Michael	Colorado State	(WR)	6007	198	9 1/8	30 7/8	74 5/8
Gesicki, Mike	Penn State	(TE)	6053	242	10 1/8	34	82 3/8
Hamilton, DaeSean	Penn State	(WR)	6006	202	9 2/8	32 5/8	76 2/8
Henderson, Trayvon	Hawaii	(S)	6001	204	9	31 2/8	75 6/8
Hernandez, Will	UTEP	(OG)	6024	340	9 6/8	32 3/8	76 7/8
Hill, B.J.	N.C. State	(DT)	6033	321	10 3/8	32 2/8	77 3/8
Holmes, Jalyn	Ohio State	(DE)	6046	279	10	34 6/8	82 7/8
Jarvis, Dewey	Brown	(OLB)	6020	236	9 1/8	32 5/8	79 7/8
Johnson, Taron	Weber State	(CB)	5110	189	9 2/8	31	74
Jones, Justin	N.C. State	(DT)	6023	311	10	33 5/8	80 4/8
Joseph, Michael	Dubuque	(CB)	6005	186	8 7/8	31 1/8	73 3/8
King, Jamarcus	South Carolina	(CB)	6004	182	9 4/8	32 4/8	78 1/8
Lazard, Allen	Iowa State	(WR)	6042	227	9 7/8	32 4/8	78 6/8
Lee, Tanner	Nebraska	(QB)	6041	218	10 1/8	32 1/8	76 3/8
Lewis, Tyquan	Ohio State	(DE)	6026	276	10 3/8	33 5/8	79 6/8
Madison, Cole	Washington State	(OT)	6050	307	10 3/8	33 6/8	77 3/8
Mayfield, Baker	Oklahoma	(QB)	6003	216	9 1/2	30 1/2
McCray, Mike	Michigan	(ILB)	6011	241	9 1/8	33	78 4/8
Okoronkwo, Ogbonnia	Oklahoma	(DE)	6013	243	9 2/8	34 4/8	79 2/8
O’Neill, Brian	Pittsburgh	(OT)	6064	298	9 3/8	34 1/8	80 3/8
Phillips, Darius	Western Michigan	(CB)	5096	188	9 3/8	31 4/8	73 2/8
Phillips, Harrison	Stanford	(DT)	6033	303	10 4/8	33 6/8	81 7/8
Pierce, Myles	The Citadel	(ILB)	5112	227	8 6/8	29 4/8	73 5/8
Quessenberry, Scott	UCLA	(C)	6036	314	9 5/8	32 6/8	77
Samuels, Jaylen	N.C. State	(RB)	5114	223	8 7/8	31 3/8	76 4/8
Scott, Jaleel	New Mexico State	(WR)	6047	216	9 6/8	33 7/8	81 4/8
Shepherd, Nathan	Fort Hays State	(DT)	6037	310	10	33	80 5/8
Smythe, Durham	Notre Dame	(TE)	6052	253	9 3/8	31 4/8	78 7/8
Teller, Wyatt	Virginia Tech	(OG)	6044	311	10 1/8	33 7/8	81 6/8
Thomas, Chad	Miami	(DE)	6050	277	10 3/8	34	81 6/8
Toth, Brett	Army	(OT)	6056	303	10 1/8	33	81 4/8
Townsend, Johnny	Florida	(P)	6010	209	9 5/8	30 5/8	73 2/8
Turay, Kemoko	Rutgers	(DE)	6043	252	9 3/8	33 5/8	79 6/8
Wadley, Akrum	Iowa	(RB)	5097	188	8 1/8	29 7/8	72 7/8
Warner, Fred	BYU	(OLB)	6034	235	9 6/8	31 5/8	77 2/8
Watson, Justin	Pennsylvania	(WR)	6025	213	9 6/8	33 6/8	78 1/8
Watts, Armani	Texas A&M	(S)	5104	191	8 7/8	31 5/8	71 7/8
Welsh, Sean	Iowa	(OG)	6023	296	10 2/8	32 1/8	76 4/8
White, Kyzir	West Virginia	(S)	6021	216	9 7/8	32	76 7/8
Wilson, Cedrick	Boise State	(WR)	6017	194	9 6/8	32 4/8	78
Yiadom, Isaac	Boston College	(CB)	6007	187	8 7/8	32 2/8	75 2/8

 

  

 

[mistertim]

Hm. Rudolph has pretty small hands for a guy his size. He's over 6'4 and his hands are just over 9 inches

[wilco_holland]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Don't really see a Rivers comparison. 

 

Yeah that was more from physical point of view. Pretty big guy, cannon of an arm. 

 

Thx for detail breakdown. Kinda proves my suspicion. High upside but a loooooot of work. Need to get him more comfortable in the pocket and work on accuracy and touch passes. 

 

Not big fan of does types of QBs because it's a position that is very hard to get "practise hours". Its not like your 4th CB that starts with a couple of packages and slowly works into a bigger role. You start or you don't. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Craig Hoffman‏Verified account @CraigHoffman1h1 hour ago

Bruce Allen is here at practice. Just saw him walk in. First snaps happening now. #SeniorBowl

 

Jon Ledyard‏Verified account @LedyardNFLDraft50m50 minutes ago

Byron Pringle really looks like a great route runner. Explosive and attentive to detail

 

Dane Brugler‏Verified account @dpbrugler 8m8 minutes ago

Dane Brugler Retweeted Nick McDougal

WR James Washington has looked as expected so far (very good), mostly due to his ball skills. Strongest set of hands, wrists and fingers among WRs in Mobile. I'll be focusing on his route-running this week.

 

1.  

   •  

     Jon Ledyard‏Verified account @LedyardNFLDraft 23m23 minutes ago

      

     Cappa is killing Marcus Davenport in team drills. He’s had an awesome practice

      

      

Dane Brugler added,

[wilco_holland]

That top 50 prospect list from DJ is interesting. He has got some very raw prospects very high in his list: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000909727/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2018-nfl-draft

 

Good year to draft a corner. Like a lot of them and looks like some nice depth for round 2.