2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

Just now, skinny21 said:

That’s a long way out (considering Scot was out prior to last draft), but you could well be right.  

 

 

 

You've got to think that kind of discussion was happening around the table when Scot was here, especially as the QB issue was brewing a long time back and no doubt he would be scouting players that far down the road. Could be an interesting  side story when the dust settles.

 

Regarding Mason Rudolph, if we do target a specific QB in the draft that could prove expensive. Last years top 15 showed how unpredictable the draft can be, and sitting at 13 waiting for you answer at QB to fall to you, after Kirk has essentially gone, smacks to me of a scenario where we would have to trade up. Yuk.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

You've got to think that kind of discussion was happening around the table when Scot was here, especially as the QB issue was brewing a long time back and no doubt he would be scouting players that far down the road. Could be an interesting  side story when the dust settles.

 

Regarding Mason Rudolph, if we do target a specific QB in the draft that could prove expensive. Last years top 15 showed how unpredictable the draft can be, and sitting at 13 waiting for you answer at QB to fall to you, after Kirk has essentially gone, smacks to me of a scenario where we would have to trade up. Yuk.

 

Agree.  And my thought to the Mayfield people is they better hope he has a ho hum Senior Bowl week because him playing well likely puts him out of reach.  I wonder if Dan gets the itch to trade up.   If you recall the RG3 hype built during the 2012 off season.  His interviews.  The combine.  Pro Day, etc.  It became a hype machine.

 

Mayfield seems to be similar in that regard.  He just seems so tailor made to what Dan loves at the QB position more than anything:  hype.  So as the hype bandwagon inevitably rises as the draft approaches, does Dan fall too hard for Mayfield to resist trading up. 

 

If its hype that drives them -- a Colt McCoy- Mason Rudolph pairing won't do it.

 

 

[Est.1974]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 I wonder if Dan gets the itch to trade up.

 

Look at the Chiefs last year, jumped from miles back to 10 to get Mahomes.

 

If Kirks gone and the plan then looks like Colt plus a rookie, and the world knows which QB we are sold on in the draft, chances are you jump up to get that guy. You simply can't risk sitting there waiting.

[HigSkin]

 

 

Mayfield just seems like kind of a loose canon....

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

 

 

[50yrSKINSfan]

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

That’s the feeling I get - adding in 1) the Scot tweet (this guy’s a football player), 2) the fact he can throw a deep ball, 3) his size, 4) he’s got a propensity for not running scared (keeps eyes downfield), and 5) his likely availability at pick 13.  

 

Sucks to think we go that route instead of picking a guy that can help on D (or in the ground game).  

Think of it as a wash. If KC leaves you will have 25mil plus to spend on FA where you can get a proven guys. You can get 2-3 guys for KC money. Are you going to win the super bowl with KC and no defense? I see 3 teams with good running games and good defenses in the playoffs and back up QBs. Do you want KC and a sub 500 record and watch our team get bulldozed or do you want a good D? 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Think of it as a wash. If KC leaves you will have 25mil plus to spend on FA where you can get a proven guys. You can get 2-3 guys for KC money. Are you going to win the super bowl with KC and no defense? I see 3 teams with good running games and good defenses in the playoffs and back up QBs. Do you want KC and a sub 500 record and watch our team get bulldozed or do you want a good D? 

 

The idea of not having a QB but making up for it by going nuts in FA.  It's the vintage approach under Dan -- 20th time the charm?     Usually the outcome to this isn't 9-7 but 5-11.   

 

My thing is we build a defense in the draft and then we are likely not stuck at 8-8-9-7 land.   That's how the Saints dislodged themselves from mediocrity.  They didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater but fixed their weaknesses.

 

Reading Jay Gruden's comments about the Vikings defense and how L. Joseph is an immovable object and hence its tough to run against that team -- made be salivate more for Vea.  A dominant nose tackle IMO is a game changer for this defense.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35393/jay-gruden-on-how-to-attack-the-vikings-and-eagles-defenses

What makes them good: “They’re balanced in what they can stop. They’re obviously very good against the run, and it starts inside with people like [lineman] Linval Joseph. He’s a hard load to move, and it was hard for us to get to the second level because he hogs two guys for a long period of time. He can make plays down the line as well...You can try to run the ball against them, but if you try to run inside, Joseph is a monster, and Griffin, if he’s on a tight end, is hard to deal with. If you run outside zone, they get Smith and Sendejo in the run fit, so how do you account for them? 

 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Think of it as a wash. If KC leaves you will have 25mil plus to spend on FA where you can get a proven guys. You can get 2-3 guys for KC money. Are you going to win the super bowl with KC and no defense? I see 3 teams with good running games and good defenses in the playoffs and back up QBs. Do you want KC and a sub 500 record and watch our team get bulldozed or do you want a good D? 

I get your point, but I don’t think it’s quite so either or as you make it.  Denver, for example, had a good D but they’re picking before us in the draft.  Ditto the Giants.  Interestingly, Kirk suffered from the same problem that Eli did - a poor oline, run game and lack of weapons... though Kirk overcame those better than Manning.  

 

To me, this looks like it might be a defense on the rise.  The injuries to the dline, Foster, and Nicholson put us in a bind.  If we were to re-sign Brown and draft an impact dlineman, I think we’d be much improved over what we saw in the middle and late part of the season when teams ran all over us.  We likely wouldn’t be a top 5 D of course, but I don’t think top 10 is out of the question, particularly since our pass rush was already ranked around 7th.  

 

The bigger wild card is how we improve the pass catchers and run game.  I’m all for targeting one of the top backs and TEs.  A 3 down back, added to Reed, Crowder, Doctson and the rookie TE might just be enough for Kirk, though we could certainly stand to get really lucky with a diamond in the rough receiver to man the other outside spot.  

 

Who knows though, maybe this is the year we can spend super wisely in FA and draft really well, and our D and ground game vault to top 5-10.  We’ll take a (big?) step back with our qb, but those other units will be enough to take us to the promise land.  

 

Of course, if we use a 1st rounder on qb, that’s one (assuming we don’t trade up) less resource to use toward our weaker units.  If we go with a FA qb, I’d guess we’d probably be saving between 5-10mil at qb, but maybe we can get difference makers with that money.  

 

Personally, I’d sign Cousins, shooting for crazy guaranteed money with a not so high salary, hope we can improve via the draft and sort of take our lumps.  Then next year hope an increased cap (along with taking Reed off the books) allows us to extend Scherff and Smith and add an impact FA or two.  

[skinsOLfan]

This is why I want Vea in the first round and the Redskins did sign QB Steven Morris to a futures contract and he looks pretty good from the video I saw of him with the Colts last year. I would rather continue to build a stout front 7 and OL, pick up a speedy RB who's a threat to score from anywhere on the field and WR who can take the top off the defense.

 

I would also like to sign Tre Burton TE (excellent blocker and reciever) from the Iggles, Safety Tre Boston or Eric Reid.

[Skins199021]

I know people disagree but screw trading up for a QB

 

If we can pick up a 2nd rounder while moving back to 17-21 range that is the best value we can get.

 

You are still looking at the possibility of a Roquan Smith, Vea, or Taven Bryan. With our 2nd rounder go for Michel, and then the other 2nd rounder.... just go BPA. makes the team better.

[OVCChairman]

9 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

I know people disagree but screw trading up for a QB

 

If we can pick up a 2nd rounder while moving back to 17-21 range that is the best value we can get.

 

You are still looking at the possibility of a Roquan Smith, Vea, or Taven Bryan. With our 2nd rounder go for Michel, and then the other 2nd rounder.... just go BPA. makes the team better.

I tend to side with you here... about trading up.  We need enough help, that the trading up would hurt, unless the QB is a legit, stud, franchise guy, and even then, it's a guess whether or not they work out.  If the QB is there that you want at 13, take him, if not, go plan b, if there is even a question, go plan C and get more pieces. 

[Est.1974]

52 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

I know people disagree but screw trading up for a QB

 

 

You wont find many in here who disagree with that.

[Est.1974]

47 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

If the QB is there that you want at 13, take him, if not, go plan b, if there is even a question, go plan C and get more pieces. 

 

As above, cant see much desire in here for a trade up scenario.

 

But...if you are specifically in the hunt for a QB you will have that narrowed down to one guy, you really don't want to go plan b. Any other position yes, but not QB. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The idea of not having a QB but making up for it by going nuts in FA.  It's the vintage approach under Dan -- 20th time the charm?     Usually the outcome to this isn't 9-7 but 5-11.   

 

My thing is we build a defense in the draft and then we are likely not stuck at 8-8-9-7 land.   That's how the Saints dislodged themselves from mediocrity.  They didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater but fixed their weaknesses.

 

Reading Jay Gruden's comments about the Vikings defense and how L. Joseph is an immovable object and hence its tough to run against that team -- made be salivate more for Vea.  A dominant nose tackle IMO is a game changer for this defense.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35393/jay-gruden-on-how-to-attack-the-vikings-and-eagles-defenses

What makes them good: “They’re balanced in what they can stop. They’re obviously very good against the run, and it starts inside with people like [lineman] Linval Joseph. He’s a hard load to move, and it was hard for us to get to the second level because he hogs two guys for a long period of time. He can make plays down the line as well...You can try to run the ball against them, but if you try to run inside, Joseph is a monster, and Griffin, if he’s on a tight end, is hard to deal with. If you run outside zone, they get Smith and Sendejo in the run fit, so how do you account for them? 

 

I never said you can do it without a good QB, I just do not think KC is a good value for the money. Let him walk and spend the $ on good proven guys until you have a good all around team like the Vikes or Jags. KC is not taking us anywhere but the bank. He was a 4th rounder and to me he has shown that in big spots he folds like a cheap suit. I know he has not had the best line this year or the best receivers but that will not change just by throwing a dump truck full of money at Kirk. It will change by building a good D and all around good team and to do that it is easier if you are not cap strapped. Kirk is good but not good enough to carry a team on his back to the playoffs. Ya if you put him on the Vikes, Jags or Steelers he will  prob excel but we are not in their league. On our team with many needs he is not worth the upgrade over a good rook like Wentz for 25mill. Cheers.

[OVCChairman]

19 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

As above, cant see much desire in here for a trade up scenario.

 

But...if you are specifically in the hunt for a QB you will have that narrowed down to one guy, you really don't want to go plan b. Any other position yes, but not QB. 

Yeah, sorry, plan B is not a QB... if the guy is there, take him, if not, have a back up plan that is not a 'settle' QB. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Baker Mayfield reminds me of a better version of Manziel and Rex Grossman. Not sure he’s the guy for us, that’s just who pops in my head when I see him. I’m not saying he’s bad or won’t be good, just my first thoughts. I do not study these guys at all though so Just throwing it out there.

[Skinsinparadise]

On 1/20/2018 at 2:23 PM, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I never said you can do it without a good QB, I just do not think KC is a good value for the money. Let him walk and spend the $ on good proven guys until you have a good all around team like the Vikes or Jags. KC is not taking us anywhere but the bank. He was a 4th rounder and to me he has shown that in big spots he folds like a cheap suit. I know he has not had the best line this year or the best receivers but that will not change just by throwing a dump truck full of money at Kirk. It will change by building a good D and all around good team and to do that it is easier if you are not cap strapped. Kirk is good but not good enough to carry a team on his back to the playoffs. Ya if you put him on the Vikes, Jags or Steelers he will  prob excel but we are not in their league. On our team with many needs he is not worth the upgrade over a good rook like Wentz for 25mill. Cheers.

 

In good spirits, I disagree with most of this. 

 

But running with this point for argument sake if you agree that you can't win without a good QB -- what makes you think the team that has struck out on that front numerous times for almost 30 years now will get it right this time quickly.   The last time they got it right in the draft before Kirk was maybe Stan Humphries in 1988.

 

They have also tried the drill of build up the rest of the roster drill and wait on the QB over and over again.  Going back to that well is Groundhog Day.

 

For example, I was at the New Orleans game.  Got Saints fans sitting next to me raving about Kirk.  Unfortunately Kirk couldn't stop Drew Brees' offense -- he didn't play defense that day.   But if we had another D lineman and perhaps middle linebacker - the outcome might have been different.

 

The defense finished 27th in points allowed.  How many other teams made the playoffs with bottom 10 defenses in points allowed?  A big fat zero.

 

That's why to me this draft could be our version of the Saints last draft -- upgrade the defense, upgrade the running game and it changes the whole outlook of a team.  It wasn't a FA spending spree that turned the Saints around but a good draft. 

 

This draft is a good set up IMO to help make a turnaround.  Really good potential run stuffers in the first and running backs in the 2nd.  If we go with Colt or a rookie, this baby is likely back on a reset and we start hearing again about lets be patient for the next 3-5 year rebuild.

 

 

[OlufemiBiz]

*How 'bout 'WR Daurice Fountain (Northern Illinois University)'?!? 

 

"Physical... Aggressive... Good Route Runner... Strong Hands... Attacks the Football... Great After the Catch... Great Kick/Punt Returner... "

 

 

[HigSkin]

21 minutes ago, OlufemiBiz said:

*How 'bout 'WR Daurice Fountain (Northern Illinois University)'?!? 

 

"Physical... Aggressive... Good Route Runner... Strong Hands... Attacks the Football... Great After the Catch... Great Kick/Punt Returner... "

 

 

 

Fountain is a man among boys in this East-West Shrine game!  I'm not advocating we draft Riley Ferguson (QB Memphis) but he's a gamer too.

 

 

[Mr. Sinister]

Assuming that everything goes the way we mostly think it will regarding #8, anybody got a good read on how Mayfield could function in Jay's offense?

[carex]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In good spirits, I disagree with most of this. 

 

But running with this point for argument sake if you agree that you can't win without a good QB -- what makes you think the team that has struck out on that front numerous times for almost 30 years now will get it right this time quickly.   The last time they got it right in the draft before Kirk was maybe Stan Humphries in 1988.

 

They have also tired the drill of build up the rest of the roster drill and wait on the QB over and over again.  Going back to that well is Groundhog Day.

 

For example, I was at the New Orleans game.  Got Saints fans sitting next to me raving about Kirk.  Unfortunately Kirk couldn't stop Drew Brees' offense -- he didn't play defense that day.   But if we had another D lineman and perhaps middle linebacker - the outcome might have been different.

 

The defense finished 27th in points allowed.  How many other teams made the playoffs with bottom 10 defenses in points allowed?  A big fat zero.

 

That's why to me this draft could be our version of the Saints last draft -- upgrade the defense, upgrade the running game and it changes the whole outlook of a team.  It wasn't a FA spending spree that turned the Saints around but a good draft. 

 

This draft is a good set up IMO to help make a turnaround.  Really good potential run stuffers in the first and running backs in the 2nd.  If we go with Colt or a rookie, this baby is likely back on a reset and we start hearing again about lets be patient for the next 3-5 year rebuild.

 

 

 

Is there a reason we should trust opposing fan opinions more than our fan opinions? He was lighting up a team that finished 27th in points allowed

 

And the Saints have a more recent success rate then the Skins.  The Saints three 7-9 years were treated as a slump, meanwhile people seem to think out recent playoffs and near misses is not an accurate reflection of the team

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, carex said:

 

Is there a reason we should trust opposing fan opinions more than our fan opinions? He was lighting up a team that finished 27th in points allowed

 

You of all people should know I've given plenty of my own concrete reasons for Kirk.  I was just bringing in that point in the context of a game where they were going toe to toe with one of the best teams this year in the NFL but the defense collapsed.   It's not the only example of that.

24 minutes ago, carex said:

And the Saints have a more recent success rate then the Skins.  The Saints three 7-9 years were treated as a slump, meanwhile people seem to think out recent playoffs and near misses is not an accurate reflection of the team

 

Got no idea what this point means.

 

But anyway don't want to turn this into the Kirk thread.  I already know what you think about him.  My point is the Saints got a stud corner, running back, and safety in one draft and turned their fortunes around.   This draft could be a similar one for us.  It's set up for it.

[carex]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But anyway don't want to turn this into the Kirk thread.  I already know what you think about him.  My point is the Saints got a stud corner, running back, and safety in one draft and turned their fortunes around.   This draft could be a similar one for us.  It's set up for it.

 They also had six picks in the first three rounds, and I doubt they had 19 FA with only about 50 million in cap space

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Assuming that everything goes the way we mostly think it will regarding #8, anybody got a good read on how Mayfield could function in Jay's offense?

 

I recall reading articles about Jay not being a Kaepernick guy in the draft because of the type of offense he ran in college and thought Dalton would adjust better to his WCO system.

 

JP Finlay said from what he heard the FO isn't high on Mayfield and L. Jackson's for Jay's offense.

 

Tebow was saying you got to design an offense for Mayfield and he isn't suited to running a traditional NFL offense.  

 

I'd guess based on these points that Mayfield isn't Jay's kind of QB and that's not their target.  Who knows.   

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, carex said:

 They also had six picks in the first three rounds, and I doubt they had 19 FA with only about 50 million in cap space

 

Lattimore, Kamara, M. Williams weren't exactly state secrets. Only one of them was a first rounder.  I took Kamara myself in the board's mock draft.    I know Bruce isn't considered the sharpest tool in the box as for personnel.  But I think he can figure out to draft a run stuffing nose tackle like Vea, back like Michel or Jones or whatever. 

 

As for the cap space, just found an article from ironically just about the same point of 2017 than we are in now.  Then the Saints had 20 million in cap space. 

https://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2017/1/17/14302996/saints-news-1-17-17-with-20-million-in-cap-space-saints-seek-pass-rushers

 

As for the 19 FAs.  What do we have like 4 who are worth bringing back?