Thinking Skins Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 It'll be interesting to see where we finish up. I'm at a point where I'm ready to let Kirk go and see who we can get in the draft. I'm a bit intrigued by Josh Allen and I've been reading a lot of positive reports about him, his size, his story, etc. and its easy to fall in love with him. I do have questions about how long it will take him to adapt and his "intangibles" but if we do wind up going QB and he's there at our pick I wouldn't be against picking him. Of course, I think the top guys on my radar are guys like linemen (Bradley Chubb) and linebackers (Rowuon Smith), but if Cousins does depart I wouldn't mind pulling the trigger here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 This thread is a waste of time. Bruce will draft a party planner with the top 5 pick. Winning off the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I’m interested in watching some film and I’m wondering if anyone has suggestions for who to watch for explosive receivers well rounded TEs DEs that can hold their own vs the run and penetrate vs pass speedy/quick twitch OLBs well rounded Gs (ha!) 2 down backs that can break off the big plays. Sidenote - draft breakdown only had one video of Byard (Titans safety) last year and I fell in love with the dude. Happy (not for altruistic reasons) to see him pan out so well, but man I wish he were a Redskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Silvernon said: WR Courtland Sutton DE Christian Wilkins What I would hope for assuming the Redskins are in the 7-12 range. Why do you like Sutton and Wilkins this much? Viewing them as good picks in the 7-12 range is high praise. What do you see in them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 On 12/15/2017 at 11:42 AM, skinny21 said: I’m interested in watching some film and I’m wondering if anyone has suggestions for who to watch for explosive receivers Haven't seen enough film to really talk about other guys. I've only watched a few WR's (haven't checked Calvin Ridley yet), but WR's with some quick feet, who can win routes, and also get YAC: DJ Moore Dante Pettis James Washington looks like he can be as good as he wants to be, but, I think he's got a little diva in him and doesn't try as hard if he knows the ball isn't going in his direction. I think he excels more in the short/intermediate range and then capable of getting monster YAC after that. I don't think he tracks the ball well, I don't think he's a good contested catcher. So far I haven't seen any burners like DeSean Jackson types. I've heard there really isn't any in this draft class, doesn't mean you can't have down field threats. Auden Tate is interesting, he's a taller guy (more AJ Green physique than Julio Jones), not excellent in any one area, but has potential. I think the floor for his potential is a taller Ryan Grant. Keep in mind I think that's the floor. From what I saw, he seems to track the ball well over his head. Edit: Anthony Miller, bolding it so people notice the edit, he's electric. If Corey Coleman went in the 1st round, then someone whose as quick, almost as fast, but can run routes should also go in the 1st round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 @Alcoholic ZebraAwesome man, thanks for the recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said: This thread is a waste of time. Bruce will draft a party planner with the top 5 pick. Winning off the field Whining off the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squatch66 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 If we're picking top 5 you can bet your ass we're taking a qb. Bears gave up a third to move up one spot last year. We will either have a qb fall to us or easily move up to get one. I can see why everyone is so enamored with Allen. He looks the part for damn sure and he's actually got some pretty decent wheels. I definitely can see why people think he's a thrower and not a passer. Frickin laser beams. I could get behind the pick. I'm a fan of Mayfield because of his intangibles. I think that a team would rally behind that from their qb. He gives me the Russell Wilson "it" factor vibe. Regardless of who we take at qb, I would want to take the A-aron approach and sit him for at least the first year before handing over the keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I like the idea of drafting an high end athletic ILB to pair with Zach Brown if re-signed. If we are picking 10-15 I can see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvernon Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 5 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: Why do you like Sutton and Wilkins this much? Viewing them as good picks in the 7-12 range is high praise. What do you see in them? Well, there's James Washington that draws some real temptation...at the end of the day, it was indicated that there was going to be a shift in the passing game and there seemed to be a conscious decision I think the Redskins are going with taller wideouts by design, with the small guys working the inside. And if there's no obvious H/W/S advantage, maybe wait for Michael Gallup's time and use that first rounder elsewhere. Other than health, I'm sold on Doctston and I am firmly sided with Gruden that Kirk doesn't understand how to utilize that kind of receiver yet. Get a more physical receiver on the other side and this a different unit with Crowder and Reed/healthy TE working the middle and Thompson working the flats. Wilkins is the top 34 End in the draft - strength, length, thick through the legs and flexibility. I forgot to add the top RB. Lots of good options if you're closer to 6-8 vs 9-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 16, 2017 Share Posted December 16, 2017 12 hours ago, Thinking Skins said: It'll be interesting to see where we finish up. I'm at a point where I'm ready to let Kirk go and see who we can get in the draft. I'm a bit intrigued by Josh Allen and I've been reading a lot of positive reports about him, his size, his story, etc. and its easy to fall in love with him. I do have questions about how long it will take him to adapt and his "intangibles" but if we do wind up going QB and he's there at our pick I wouldn't be against picking him. Of course, I think the top guys on my radar are guys like linemen (Bradley Chubb) and linebackers (Rowuon Smith), but if Cousins does depart I wouldn't mind pulling the trigger here. Allen is definitely an intriguing prospect. Very slippery and light on his feet with some wheels for a 6'5 230lb dude. Playmaker who can make something big out of nothing with his escapability, great when things break down, and when throwing on the run, absolute rocket launcher of an arm. Downsides is with the way he plays he can sometimes bail from the pocket too early and rely on his arm too much to where he makes really risky throws. Seen him do it in games and a relatively low completion percentage and mediocre TD/INT ratio also bear that out. Probably needs to work on his fundamentals a decent amount to be successful in the NFL. Haven't really read much about his intangibles as far as character, leadership, work ethic, etc. Probably wouldn't take him with a top 5 pick because of his mediocre showings statistically sometimes, but possibly top 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderDOOM Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I wanted Vita last year. Can play every position on the DL and rush the passer on 3rd downs. We've gotta build a team to counter our division rivals' strengths. Q.Nelson is another 1 Im hoping for. I can see Big Ben in Allen. He makes some nice throws on the run. Gruden is a qb whisperer so he could maximize his talents as long as the efforts there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 On 12/15/2017 at 2:17 PM, FrFan said: Whining off the field Your faith in this front office structure is admirable. Props to you kind sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said: Your faith in this front office structure is admirable. Props to you kind sir I should have been more specific. I was talking about most of us whining off the field, the consequence of BA's own incompetence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 15 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said: I wanted Vita last year. Can play every position on the DL and rush the passer on 3rd downs. We've gotta build a team to counter our division rivals' strengths. Q.Nelson is another 1 Im hoping for. I can see Big Ben in Allen. He makes some nice throws on the run. Gruden is a qb whisperer so he could maximize his talents as long as the efforts there. If we win the next 2 which I think is likely, I am guessing we'd be drafting around 16. Judging by current mocks, Vea and Payne might be available, then. Both guys look like elite run stuffers. Maybe Harrison Phillips from Stanford in the 2nd but he seems undersized for nose. Lanier, Ionnaidis and Allen all look like potential building blocks but they are all (especially Lanier and Ionnaidis) better at rushing the passer. Getting a young true nose tackle IMO would help a lot. It's another reason why I don't those in the camp of lets draft a QB with the first round pick. You have an opportunity to add a key building block. If you are drafting a QB in the mid first round, you are unlikely getting anyone that's going to light the world on fire right away -- let alone defy the typical odds that the Qb isn't a bust or just guy. If you trade up from the mid first round into the top 5 -- you aren't just losing the opportunity in the first round to get a player at another position, you are losing that shot in the 2nd round too and probably next years first and likely another pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/need-know-how-much-could-redskins-last-two-games-affect-draft?utm_content=buffer7a2b8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer That's a story by Rich Tandler questioning the importance of draft position (we stand to pick somewhere between 10 and 15). I thought it was an interesting example, but kinda simple so I wanted to see if I could expand on it a bit and see where it takes me. Instead I'm going to look at the drafts of the last 5 years and the pro-football-reference AV (11th Column) to see where the best player was taken. 2016 draft: 1 10 NYG Eli Apple CB 21 2017 0 0 1 4 4 24 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 82 1 Ohio St. College Stats 1 11 TAM Vernon Hargreaves CB 21 2017 0 0 2 6 6 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 105 1 Florida College Stats 1 12 NOR Sheldon Rankins DT 22 2017 0 0 1 1 1 23 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 28 1 5.0 Louisville College Stats 1 13 MIA Laremy Tunsil T 22 2017 0 0 2 6 6 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mississippi College Stats 1 14 OAK Karl Joseph S 23 2017 0 0 2 4 4 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 95 2 1.0 West Virginia College Stats 1 15 CLE Corey Coleman WR 22 2017 0 0 1 3 3 18 0 0 0 0 0 2 10 0 54 697 5 Baylor College Stats 1 16 DET Taylor Decker T 22 2017 0 0 1 10 10 22 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ohio St. College Stats 1 17 ATL Keanu Neal SS 21 2017 0 0 2 4 4 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 142 Florida College Stats 1 18 IND Ryan Kelly C 23 2017 0 0 2 9 9 23 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Alabama College Stats 1 19 BUF Shaq Lawson DE 22 2017 0 0 1 1 1 21 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 24 6.0 Clemson College Stats 1 20 NYJ Darron Lee OLB 21 2017 0 0 2 4 4 26 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 104 4.0 Ohio St. College Stats Best player seems to be Taylor Decker at the 16th pick. 2015 draft: 1 10 STL Todd Gurley RB 21 2017 0 1 3 12 12 43 0 0 0 0 0 764 3178 29 118 1145 4 Georgia College Stats 1 11 MIN Trae Waynes CB 23 2017 0 0 1 5 5 44 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 112 5 Michigan St. College Stats 1 12 CLE Danny Shelton NT 22 2017 0 0 3 12 12 44 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 68 1.5 Washington College Stats 1 13 NOR Andrus Peat T 21 2017 0 0 2 16 16 40 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Stanford College Stats 1 14 MIA DeVante Parker WR 22 2017 0 0 2 9 9 41 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 128 1781 8 Louisville College Stats 1 15 SDG Melvin Gordon RB 22 2017 0 1 3 15 15 41 0 0 0 0 0 686 2569 17 123 1009 6 Wisconsin College Stats 1 16 HOU Kevin Johnson CB 23 2017 0 0 0 7 7 33 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 97 1 Wake Forest College Stats 1 17 SFO Arik Armstead DT 21 2017 0 0 0 3 3 30 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 31 6.0 Oregon College Stats 1 18 KAN Marcus Peters CB 22 2017 1 2 3 23 23 44 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 128 19 Washington College Stats 1 19 CLE Cameron Erving C 23 2017 0 0 1 7 7 40 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Florida St. College Stats 1 20 PHI Nelson Agholor WR 22 2017 0 0 3 5 5 42 0 0 0 0 0 5 14 0 114 1370 11 USC College Stats Best player seems to be Marcus Peters at 18. 2014 draft: 1 10 DET Eric Ebron TE 21 2017 0 0 3 12 12 54 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 180 1978 10 North Carolina College Stats 1 11 TEN Taylor Lewan T 23 2017 0 1 3 20 20 56 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 10 1 Michigan College Stats 1 12 NYG Odell Beckham WR 21 2017 0 3 3 32 32 47 0 1 0 0 0 10 55 0 313 4424 38 3 LSU College Stats 1 13 STL Aaron Donald DT 23 2017 2 3 4 44 44 61 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 146 39.0 Pittsburgh College Stats 1 14 CHI Kyle Fuller DB 22 2017 0 0 3 11 11 46 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 153 7 Virginia Tech College Stats 1 15 PIT Ryan Shazier LB 22 2017 0 1 3 18 18 46 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 205 7 7.0 Ohio St. College Stats 1 16 DAL Zack Martin G 23 2017 2 3 4 34 34 62 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 Notre Dame College Stats 1 17 BAL C.J. Mosley LB 22 2017 0 2 4 33 33 60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 318 8 8.0 Alabama College Stats 1 18 NYJ Calvin Pryor DB 22 2017 0 0 3 14 14 46 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 129 2 0.5 Louisville College Stats 1 19 MIA Ja'Wuan James T 22 2017 0 0 3 19 19 47 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 Tennessee College Stats 1 20 NOR Brandin Cooks WR 21 2017 0 0 3 24 24 56 0 0 0 0 0 26 147 1 273 3845 26 2 Oregon St. College Stats Best player is Aaron Donald at 13. 2013 draft: 1 10 TEN Chance Warmack G 22 2017 0 0 3 19 19 56 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 Alabama College Stats 1 11 SDG D.J. Fluker T 22 2017 0 0 4 29 29 68 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 Alabama 1 12 OAK D.J. Hayden DB 23 2017 0 0 1 10 10 59 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 192 3 1.5 Houston College Stats 1 13 NYJ Sheldon Richardson DT 22 2017 0 1 3 36 36 71 0 0 0 0 0 4 4 2 0 0 0 165 1 19.0 Missouri College Stats 1 14 CAR Star Lotulelei DT 23 2017 0 0 4 26 26 74 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 88 11.0 Utah College Stats 1 15 NOR Kenny Vaccaro DB 23 2017 0 0 5 18 18 68 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 282 8 7.5 Texas College Stats 1 16 BUF EJ Manuel QB 23 2017 0 0 1 10 10 30 343 590 3767 20 16 96 339 4 0 0 0 2 Florida St. College Stats 1 17 PIT Jarvis Jones LB 23 2016 0 0 2 18 18 50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 84 2 6.0 Georgia College Stats 1 18 SFO Eric Reid DB 21 2017 0 1 4 23 23 68 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 253 10 1.0 LSU College Stats 1 19 NYG Justin Pugh T 23 2017 0 0 4 23 23 63 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 Syracuse College Stats 1 20 CHI Kyle Long G 24 2017 0 3 5 33 33 65 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 -1 0 4 Oregon Best player is Sheldon Richardson at 13. 2012 draft: 1 10 BUF Stephon Gilmore DB 22 2017 0 1 6 26 26 79 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 237 16 South Carolina College Stats 1 11 KAN Dontari Poe DT 22 2017 0 2 6 41 41 92 1 1 2 1 0 2 2 2 0 0 0 178 15.5 Memphis College Stats 1 12 PHI Fletcher Cox DT 21 2017 0 2 6 44 44 91 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 202 34.0 Mississippi St. College Stats 1 13 ARI Michael Floyd WR 22 2017 0 0 2 27 27 86 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 255 3859 24 2 Notre Dame College Stats 1 14 STL Michael Brockers DT 21 2017 0 0 5 33 33 89 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 160 19.0 LSU College Stats 1 15 SEA Bruce Irvin DE 24 2017 0 0 5 29 23 88 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 177 3 36.5 West Virginia College Stats 1 16 NYJ Quinton Coples DE 22 2015 0 0 2 19 19 62 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 75 16.5 North Carolina College Stats 1 17 CIN Dre Kirkpatrick DB 22 2017 0 0 3 18 18 78 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 190 10 2.0 Alabama College Stats 1 18 SDG Melvin Ingram DE 23 2017 0 0 4 21 21 75 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 182 34.5 South Carolina College Stats 1 19 CHI Shea McClellin DE 23 2016 0 0 3 17 13 66 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 114 8.5 Boise St. College Stats 1 20 TEN Kendall Wright WR 22 2017 0 0 3 24 24 80 0 0 0 0 0 11 90 0 330 3802 19 4 Baylor College Stats Best player is Fletcher Cox at 12. Its interesting (and AV is no official ranking but it does give a way of quickly answering the question), but with the radio debate being whether to win or to lose for draft position, its interesting that the 10th pick never universally the best player. Maybe if I go back further we'll see that. I don't know, but it does give some value to "you play to win the game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cumberland Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 DJ Moore has declared... Junior WR out of Maryland.. Would be a great day 2 pick for us if he falls that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amm0409 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 On 12/13/2017 at 2:15 PM, Skinsinparadise said: Redskins: 13. Derwin James -- safety, FSU. Thats not a bad pick up. we could go defense first three rounds if we dont go offense round one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, amm0409 said: Thats not a bad pick up. we could go defense first three rounds if we dont go offense round one I agree though not sure its realistic that James falls that far -- being an athletic freak assuming he's healthy, he's likely blowing up the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Count me in on the D.J Moore bandwagon. He reminds me a bit of Jarvis Landry but if I was Moore I'd try to hit the combine at about 205 (listed at 215) to have that extra bit of fluidity coming out of his stem. As it is he can make cuts at higher gears which is a major asset for receivers IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I want a DL other teams fear and an OL they can't do a thing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Berggy9598 said: Count me in on the D.J Moore bandwagon. He reminds me a bit of Jarvis Landry but if I was Moore I'd try to hit the combine at about 205 (listed at 215) to have that extra bit of fluidity coming out of his stem. As it is he can make cuts at higher gears which is a major asset for receivers IMO. He uses that extra mass to block, break tackles, etc. He's physical, that's his play style. I don't know if losing 10 pounds would speed him up enough to offset how he normally likes to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 32 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: He uses that extra mass to block, break tackles, etc. He's physical, that's his play style. I don't know if losing 10 pounds would speed him up enough to offset how he normally likes to play. This would be for ease of movement rather than speed. It's why you don't see too many receivers with running back frames in the NFL. Jarvis Landry has a similar frame and is very difficult to tackle at 207. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 12/15/2017 at 1:44 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said: Haven't seen enough film to really talk about other guys. I've only watched a few WR's (haven't checked Calvin Ridley yet), but WR's with some quick feet, who can win routes, and also get YAC: DJ Moore Dante Pettis James Washington looks like he can be as good as he wants to be, but, I think he's got a little diva in him and doesn't try as hard if he knows the ball isn't going in his direction. I think he excels more in the short/intermediate range and then capable of getting monster YAC after that. I don't think he tracks the ball well, I don't think he's a good contested catcher. So far I haven't seen any burners like DeSean Jackson types. I've heard there really isn't any in this draft class, doesn't mean you can't have down field threats. Auden Tate is interesting, he's a taller guy (more AJ Green physique than Julio Jones), not excellent in any one area, but has potential. I think the floor for his potential is a taller Ryan Grant. Keep in mind I think that's the floor. From what I saw, he seems to track the ball well over his head. Edit: Anthony Miller, bolding it so people notice the edit, he's electric. If Corey Coleman went in the 1st round, then someone whose as quick, almost as fast, but can run routes should also go in the 1st round. James Washington isn’t a hands catcher and doesn’t run the full route tree. I’m a big fan of Ridley, Courtland and Miller. I also like DJ Moore in the 3rd. This year I do believe the sweet spot for wr could be the 2nd round, especially with how high we are picking. We could take another needed position in the first, ie defense and then grab a wr in the 2nd. If Anthony Miller ends up in the 2nd he would be a great find. Yes, very possible he goes in the first though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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