Skinsinparadise Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, maxiumone said: Agree on the hands thing. But the kid is a tough sob. That last game of the season he was a beast. He would make a twenty yard run and limp off the field then come back in and do it again Yeah. I loved that. Tough dude. I think if he puts on 10 pounds or so without hopefully losing speed it might help him in the draft process. There aren't too many running backs in the NFL under 200 pounds. He's a smart guy who wants to go to medical school one day. A lot to like with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordranger76 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 The question is with the early selection of running back is would you rather have dominance at NT or RB? I'm going with the NT all day. Very few teams have that and if you have a D that is shutting down their O consistently do we need as much pop out of the offense? Is RB deeper than NT in this draft? I think we could use the 2nd rounder on the back but I am in love with Vea and depending on how it all shakes out I would argue he would help the team the most out of any spot. We have never had that here at all. It would look like a totally different defense with him next to Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 4 hours ago, fordranger76 said: The question is with the early selection of running back is would you rather have dominance at NT or RB? I'm going with the NT all day. Very few teams have that and if you have a D that is shutting down their O consistently do we need as much pop out of the offense? Is RB deeper than NT in this draft? I think we could use the 2nd rounder on the back but I am in love with Vea and depending on how it all shakes out I would argue he would help the team the most out of any spot. We have never had that here at all. It would look like a totally different defense with him next to Allen. I am a BPA guy so it depends on the grades of the player. What makes me wonder a little about Vea is recalling an interview from Tomsula where he said something to the effect that he doesn't like the mammoth traditional NTs type -- implying he likes the smaller more nimble types. If they think for example Bryce Love is the next Kamara or Derwin James drops and they are sold he's BPA , Roquan Smith or whatever -- that's what I want them to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Nyheim Hines is having a strong bowl game for N.C State. Impressive burst/acceleration and a well built lower body and low center of gravity that make him hard to tackle for a smaller back, especially in the open field. Would be a nice rotational back (if you're a believer that Perine is a 15 carry guy) and would allow us to go defense/QB if needed in the first and second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 22 hours ago, redskindan07 said: I know it is extremely early to talk 2018 draft but I couldn't help but post this one. Can you imagine how quickly this board would crash if this was our pick? https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-john-elways-broncos-take-chance-on-super-talented-josh-allen/ I do not know Chris Trapasso with CBS Sports but my guess is that he doesn't get many picks right I heard they fired their previous draft guys and gave all of their duties to the guy you linked to, who has said some questionable things. As far as anyone knows, they just piled the draft stuff onto someone who already had a full plate to begin with, so everything he says doesn't have much thought behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 6 hours ago, fordranger76 said: The question is with the early selection of running back is would you rather have dominance at NT or RB? I'm going with the NT all day. Very few teams have that and if you have a D that is shutting down their O consistently do we need as much pop out of the offense? Is RB deeper than NT in this draft? I think we could use the 2nd rounder on the back but I am in love with Vea and depending on how it all shakes out I would argue he would help the team the most out of any spot. We have never had that here at all. It would look like a totally different defense with him next to Allen. I think Vea would make our DL rotation formidable and deep. Nickel rotation of Ioannidis/Allen/Lanier. Vea in at base defense, and he shows enough ability to collapse a pocket that a team uses heavy formations or hurry up or something to try and exploit, they won't be able to. Vea looks like a 3 down NT which is damned rare. This goes back to the "planet theory" by Bill Parcells. There's only so many people that big, that athletic, and that powerful on the planet at any one given time. If they fall to you, you have to draft them, because they're that rare. JJ Watt and Julius Peppers are another two planet guys. While not near Vea's size, they are ridiculously athletic and powerful for weighing 290-295 pounds and the ability to play on the Edge. Dontari Poe was another planet guy, but injuries derailed his effectiveness. Injuries are doing the same to JJ Watt. It's possible that "planet theory" guys are more injury prone because that combo of weight + explosiveness is not sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Interesting point about college qbs, "i don't like guys who don't win in college ". I just heard that on 1067 (sean salisbury) and I'm putting it here to research it later. I know there are probably exceptions, but i wonder if this is like the 26/27/60 rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said: Interesting point about college qbs, "i don't like guys who don't win in college ". I just heard that on 1067 (sean salisbury) and I'm putting it here to research it later. I know there are probably exceptions, but i wonder if this is like the 26/27/60 rule. That view point is prevalent in recruiting on pretty much every level of college football too, although not a consensus by any means. There are so many intangible things that go into excelling at that position so I definitely see why it's taken into account. I'm glad my job doesn't depend on my ability to evaluate a QB I think I'd go mad from sleep deprivation in about a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 He's been mentioned before on the thread but Christian Wilkins from Clemson seems to be of the Jonathan Allen ilk. He's a bit bigger, 300 pounds. Like Allen stout against the run, good pass rusher Reading about the dude -- seems like a cool cat, good character, lot of personality. He has some Swearinger-Zach Brown in him it seems personality wise. I watched a couple of days of camp and focused mostly on the D line and you got really a lot of quiet cats among that group. Besides being potentially a good player, Wilkins might bring energy and leadership to that unit over time. Just like the offense fell off the cliff when Thompson got hurt -- ditto the defense after Allen got hurt. Doesn't hurt to load up at that position -- especially considering its typically the most rotated one. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000885182/article/clemson-dl-christian-wilkins-turns-tragedy-into-triumph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommDownMan Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018CWilkins.php With a comparison to Fletcher Cox, a pretty solid review here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I've said it before, but I really like the idea of hitting dline in the first again. Agree that this line could use a fiery personality to pump up the guys around them. To me, it's the best single addition to both help vs the run pass, and most likely to beef up the defense. It would be pretty damn exciting to wind up with a top 10 O and D. I'm not sure what to hit next though. I'd be happy to go oline, wr, rb, or even S, ILB, OLB or TE. Adding a receiving weapon and improving the run game would be my preferred focus. It's been mentioned before, but that's another thing I'd hate about losing Cousins - the 'need' to devote a pick to qb early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cumberland Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Might not mean a thing but found this an interesting tweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 On 12/21/2017 at 9:30 AM, OVCChairman said: I'm with you except that we Spaight and Harvey-Clemons are the only 2 listed ILBs under contract for next year, and Spaight's contract is up after next season. A position of depth could become a very VERY large weakness very fast. I think we signed Vigil for two years. Given how Manuskey raves about his communication, I wonder if we’d be ok there if Brown returns. Ideally I’d like to add a high end ILB that can take some reps and become an eventual starter next to Brown though. Gotta say, after watching a few of Guice’s games, I would not be upset with adding him. I didn’t see him getting much love on here, but he looks like a complete back to me. He’s no Barkley, but he looks like a significant upgrade over what we’ve got (and I like Perine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 What is the current thinking on Jonathan Allen LB? Is he set to continue to develop as an OLB or is he better suited toward ILB? It certainly has an impact on position of need if we look at players with equal grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 37 minutes ago, skinny21 said: Gotta say, after watching a few of Guice’s games, I would not be upset with adding him. I didn’t see him getting much love on here, but he looks like a complete back to me. He’s no Barkley, but he looks like a significant upgrade over what we’ve got (and I like Perine). I've watched Guice too, I commented on him earlier in the thread. He seems like a complete back. I like that he returns kicks. My only issues with him is speed and too injury prone? But I like him. Portis was playing him up a little on 980 a week or so ago. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000816965/article/first-look-scouting-lsu-rb-derrius-guice What I liked: Let's start with his production -- despite having 5 or fewer carries in 4 games, Guice still found a way to lead the SEC in rushing yards. He also racked up 15 rushing touchdowns. I love his style as a runner. He is very decisive and reaches top speed in a hurry. He has the wiggle to make defenders miss in tight quarters and he has incredible contact balance, which allows him to consistently bounce off of tacklers. He has homerun speed once he gets into the open field (see 92-yard score vs. Arkansas). He isn't used often in the passing game, but he does have capable hands and the potential to be more of a weapon in that department. I like the fact that he hasn't been overused by LSU. I'm sure his workload will increase without Fournette around this fall, but he will eventually enter the NFL with plenty of tread left on his tires. Where he needs to improve: I mentioned Guice wasn't much of a factor as a receiver out of the backfield (he caught 9 passes in 2016). Hopefully, we'll see him more involved in that area in 2017 so we can get a fair evaluation of his route-running and pass-catching prowess. He's still a work in progress in pass protection. Guice has a high batting average when he goes low and cuts defenders, but he struggles when he stays on his feet. He gets too narrow and defenders easily displace him. I'd like to see him bend his knees, sink his weight and show some anchor vs. blitzing linebackers. Biggest takeaway: Penn State's Saquon Barkley is going to enter the 2017 CFB season as the top running back in the country, but Guice belongs in his company. He's an explosive runner with excellent balance and a tenacious style. He isn't quite as powerful as his former teammate Fournette, but he has a little more wiggle and elusiveness. I see a little bit of LaDainian Tomlinson in his running style, but he really reminds me of a young Frank Gore. He's a tough guy to get on the ground. I can't wait to see him play ... BYU in the opener on Sept. 2. LSU lost a very physical game to Wisconsin in the opener last season. While BYU isn't quite as talented as that Wisconsin team, it's a very physical squad and they are capable of knocking off the Tigers. Guice could make a strong statement by posting big numbers against a quality opponent in the first week of the season. Follow Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter @MoveTheSticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Watching OSU last night, their center Billy Price looked dominant. The most unsexy first round pick you could make with or without Kirk being here. Can play center and guard. I'd be thrilled something like that. Build out from your lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Jason Cabinda is so much fun to watch. About fundamentally sound a linebacker as you'll see. Always low and under control in traffic, can explode into a ball carrier, never stops moving his feet, quicker than he gets credit for and plays with some violence. He won't run a fast 40, but he does a such a good job staying in position and can ping around in short areas. I'm a big believer that if your middle backer is running 40 yards in a straight line without the ball, something has more often than not gone horribly wrong anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Barkely continues to be sick. I am hoping either he doesn't come out in the draft or the Browns take him at #1. I'd hate to see him end up in NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandB11 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 2 hours ago, PlayAction said: What is the current thinking on Jonathan Allen LB? Is he set to continue to develop as an OLB or is he better suited toward ILB? It certainly has an impact on position of need if we look at players with equal grades. Do you mean Ryan Anderson? J Allen has never and will never be a LB.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I just can't really see them trying Anderson at ILB. He could probably be a solid thumper back there, but I'm not sure he has the burst to excel at it. I could see him following Murphy's trajectory - a guy that excels at setting the edge early on and eventually grows as a pass rusher. Even if he's not much at turning the corner vs tackles, he can win with power and good handwork/leverage. That's my hope anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 On 12/14/2017 at 5:13 PM, Burgold said: Maybe so, but I do think there is an important place for a 21st century Donnie Warren. You're probably right though. Still, there must be some left tackle out there from a smaller school who has the wherewithal to be a great NFL blocker without the size who has untapped hands. Seems like this is a cave worth mining for gems in the ruff. Think I mentioned this idea at some point - maybe look for a TE turned OT. One that can lose 10-20 and (re)gain some speed. Ideally though, I think we ought to just draft a complete TE. Hurst, Fumagalli, etc. @Skinsinparadisesorry man, you definitely did mention Guice a bunch, not sure how I missed it, lol. I argued against a first round back (generally, as I think the run game suffers more from poor te blocking, and I'd prefer to work from the lines out), but I think Barkley, Love and Guice are special talents. Pair Guice with one of the top tes, and we might actually have a ground game that's worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonJ83 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: Barkely continues to be sick. I am hoping either he doesn't come out in the draft or the Browns take him at #1. I'd hate to see him end up in NY. He looked like Timmy Smith vs the Broncos today. I wish we could get him so bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 50 minutes ago, skinny21 said: I argued against a first round back (generally, as I think the run game suffers more from poor te blocking, and I'd prefer to work from the lines out), but I think Barkley, Love and Guice are special talents. Pair Guice with one of the top tes, and we might actually have a ground game that's worth something. At this point, I am the way I typically am at this point of the year -- heck usually through February which is I keep changing who I am infatuated with. Guice was one of my first ones thus far. Last year if I recall at this time it was Dalvin Cook initially. I posted a lot on Cook and defended him. I liked Kamara some, too -- I took him in the board's draft. Obviously, I am not a scout so I am winging it like anyone else. But to my layman eyes, some running backs just hit me more than others as to their explosion. I never really set down and studied Cook's skill set for example but whenever I turned on FSU games -- that dude was so freaking dynamic, he was like out of a video game. Yeah I know his combine numbers weren't hot, he had some personal baggage, some fumbling issues, etc. But I couldn't block out of my mind what I saw when I watched him regardless of all that. I've not watched Guice as much as Cook but he had a couple games that gave me that feeling. Ditto Love. But my sample size for both is much smaller than Cook. 3 minutes ago, BrandonJ83 said: He looked like Timmy Smith vs the Broncos today. I wish we could get him so bad! Timmy Smith on steroids. It would stink if the Giants land him. I am hoping the Browns see the logic in taking Barkley first and using their other top 5 pick on a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: Barkely continues to be sick. I am hoping either he doesn't come out in the draft or the Browns take him at #1. I'd hate to see him end up in NY. Either in FA or early in the draft, we need to invest heavily in the gut of our front seven. We simply have to be great at stopping the run or we are in for some ugly divisional games in the years ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I have a feeling that if our current FO stays in tact, they're going to give up the farm to move up to take Barkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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