2018 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[rumplestilskin]

Vea reminds me of Troy Polomolu's twin. Except Troy didn't eat as much Spam.

 

[bh32]

40 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Jeremiah said that there were elements of Vea's game that reminded him of Ngata, not that he's a better prospect than Ngata. And sure there are. But you can say that about pretty much any athletic behemoth that comes out. When I watched Ngata play in college and I watch Vea play now I see two players on completely different levels. No, I'm not a pro scout, but I do know that every time these huge athletic guys come out there are always people who throw Ngata out there. And it just never happens. Outside of Ngata and maybe Poe these guys never live up to their draft place. Add in possible character/motivational issues and Vea is a huge risk. Payne I would stay away from completely.

 

And I don't put down every player someone else likes. I have guys I like and guys I don't. I agree with people plenty on here about plenty of prospects but Vea and Payne are sticking points for me because I just think they're so overrated and are going to end up way overdrafted. Vea because he's the next huge athletic dude who everyone thinks will be that magical unicorn who will instantly transform their line because....he's big and can move, and Payne because he played for Bama and people decided to jump on his hype train and ride it into the sunset, mostly because of his performance in one bowl game, despite (IMO) his game film overall being mediocre and his stats/production being downright laughably bad. 

 

As far as at 13, a few options. Hopefully a true blue chipper falls to us like Fitz, Smith (even though I'm not sure he'd fit our scheme as we already have a pure 3-4 Mike ILB), James, or Edmunds (though I have concerns about Edmunds...he's super super raw and has some serious flaws in his game but his athleticism and instincts are off the charts), etc. In that case you take them. I really like Guice and I'd definitely take him at 13 over Vea or Payne but I'd prefer to be able to trade back a little and still snag him. My biggest hope is that Vea is taken before us and that helps to push one of the blue chip guys down. 

 

Now, I could be completely wrong about Vea. It's a toss up. Will he be motivated now and will he be willing to put in the work to become great? Or will he just figure he can coast by purely on his size and athleticism like he does in college? Will he put in the extra film work to refine his game? How coachable is he? As I've said before a guy being big alone means nothing when he gets to the NFL. If he just tries the same stuff as he did in college he'll get stonewalled by most good NFL G/Cs who have good technique. You can't just take a fat boy, throw him out there, and say "ok run stopping problem solved!" in the pros. High school? Almost always. College? Definitely can work. NFL? No way.

All i can do is smh..

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, bh32 said:

All i can do is smh..

 

Very thoughtful response. I explained my position and you basically have nothing.

[bh32]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Very thoughtful response. I explained my position and you basically have nothing.

You call James and Fitzpatrick blue chippers,but i don't see it..Go look at Ed Reed and Sean Taylor college tape..Those are blue chippers..

[bh32]

James and Fitzpatrick are good ,but they are not elite talent..

[Tay]

47 minutes ago, bh32 said:

James and Fitzpatrick are good ,but they are not elite talent..

 During James' true freshman season, it was hard to tell the best player in the FSU secondary and he was playing with Jalen Ramsey.

 

As long as he stays healthy, he's special. 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, bh32 said:

You call James and Fitzpatrick blue chippers,but i don't see it..Go look at Ed Reed and Sean Taylor college tape..Those are blue chippers..

 

James and Fitz are blue chip talents. Ed Reed and Sean Taylor were not blue chippers, they were generational talents. 

[Going Commando]

Been watching some James Daniels cut ups and I'm not liking what I see on first watch.  Super smooth runner and outstanding athlete for the position but this guy is a teddy bear.  He has zero nasty or power in his game.  Zero punch.  He's make some zone team happy, but I honestly don't think I would draft him because, as clean and athletic as he is, he doesn't have the kind of on-field demeanor and playing style I want from a lineman.  I want trench warriors.  I want tone setters at every spot, not softies.

 

The only guy on that Iowa offense I like this year is Wadley.  On defense I like Jackson and Jewell.  Jewell's a hyperactive grinder who is going to make an NFL roster and play special teams.  I don't know if he can be a starter, but it's tough to best against linebackers who have instincts like him even when they aren't that big or fast.

[Mannix]

3 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

Vea - Chubb - Teller. Let’s get er done 

 

Or Vea - Price - Walton

 

You’re so close...Vea Ragnow Walton

 

 

Problem is I’m not sure Walton gets to the 4 round.

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, VaK9Trainer said:

I think this whole BPA thing is way overrated.  We HAVE TO fill our massive holes and not draft a player (regardless if they are a stud) at a position that is already strong or fairly strong. We have 3 MUST HAVE needs, Nose Tackle, Running Back and Left Guard. We could probably use a Slot Cornerback but I don't see that being as big a need as the 3 that I mentioned.  I think the smart thing to do is to sign Hankins while he's still available. That way, he and Phil Taylor have the NT position sewn up and we eliminate a need. Take Guice with that 1st round pick. If you don't think he'll last, take him at 13. If you think he will survive a bit longer, trade down a few picks and pick up an extra 2nd. Either way, whether you have to trade down or trade up, I would try to add an extra 2nd this year. Then you go get that left Guard and you still have another 2nd to go in many directions with. Perhaps you add another WR or TE. Maybe you grab that Slot Corner. Maybe a Pass Rushing Defensive End. If we're smart and with a little luck, we could come out of this thing in very good shape. 

 

Let's just say I disagree. At what positions do we have superlative talent on this roster? 

Left Tackle

Right Guard

Wherever we choose to lineup Jonathan Allen

Edge Rusher 

 

That's it. 

 

We don't have superlative talent on cheap long term contracts on the roster other than Allen. 

 

I know the team is acting as if we're on a short window to contend with Alex Smith, but honestly, that's absurdist fools gold. This team aint winning squat during Alex Smith's decline over the next few years. The conference has gotten significantly better in recent years, and could be scary good if the Saints can find a replacement for Brees (the entire NFC South could be monstrous at that point, while the West already looks like it has two growing powers, the North has Minnesota, and an old standby with Green Bay, and in the East we've got the best team in the league in Philly). We're just fooling ourselves if we think we're contending for anything in the short term. I pray they view Smith as a bridge piece while they do a rebuild around the young players they've drafted over the past three years, and now four. Otherwise the situation in the F.O. is even worse than I thought. And with that knowledge in tow, why does Need really matter? Need is relevant if your the Patriots or the Steelers because you have a legit window that's closing and a chance to steal a Lombardi if things play out right. For teams like us, who aren't contenders and have needs practically everywhere, who cares?

 

Honestly, I look at it this way:

 

Other than a LT, RG, and one DL in Allen, we could use talent everywhere on the roster. Therefore we should use the draft to acquire the best possible talent everywhere, with an understanding of what's already been addressed via free agency and is weak in the draft (WR for instance). 

 

My preference is for Fitzpatrick, James or Ward or a trade down, but honestly, I just want a draft where we're peeling off the best available talent that doesn't play LT, RG and WR (it's a terrible draft for WR's, while next years class is loaded). Otherwise I could live with almost anything, especially after Day 1. Just build a damn good roster so when we're forced to draft a rookie QB, he has stuff to work with, and said players on as cheap of contracts as possible so we can add a ton of talent to the team during his rookie deal if he hits (it's the new strategy to build a winner: The Russell Wilson Mode: Land a stud QB on a cheap deal, then acquire all the pieces necessary regardless of expense to contend during that 4 year window when he's super cheap and the fifth option year too). 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

I have mixed feelings about Rashaan Evans.  I'm not sold on him being a safe first round pick.  Most of these Alabama linebackers have typically been overachievers with a fairly clean game.  Evans is more of an upside guy who didn't really live up to his potential at Bama by putting together a great season.  And he's got some issues in his game.  I see some stack and shed issues.  I see some play recognition issues.  And he's got an injury history.

 

But he's bigger than Reggie Ragland and Reuben Foster and C.J. Moseley were.  Where they were squatty and compact, he's got a lean, rangy frame that should be able to match up with tight ends pretty well and do some edge rushing.  He's something more than just an A-gap blitzer.

 

He's a gifted athlete, not just a thumper.  His game is not as clean as theirs were, but he's got more potential than Foster and Raggland.  But I'm a little hesitant to trust the athlete linebackers who aren't that instinctive or skilled with their hands.  He represents solid value at 44, but I wouldn't be taking him in the first round, which is probably where he'll go.

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

ESPN running a mock draft.  I take that one more seriously because they had the beat reporters of each team making the choices.  I'd presume they are all somewhat plugged in.

 

Fitzpatrick, James, R. Smith, Vea, gone by 13.  But Keim had a choice of Payne, Edwards, Ward.  He took Edwards.  IMO that is hands down the way to go working the board he had.

 

Agreed, when a top 6-8 talent falls in your lap at 13, you pick him. Only exceptions for me would be if he was a LT or RG (and of course Fullback, Punter, Kicker yada yada). Other than that, pull the trigger. 

 

 

[sjinhan]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

ESPN running a mock draft.  I take that one more seriously because they had the beat reporters of each team making the choices.  I'd presume they are all somewhat plugged in.

 

Fitzpatrick, James, R. Smith, Vea, gone by 13.  But Keim had a choice of Payne, Edwards, Ward.  He took Edwards.  IMO that is hands down the way to go working the board he had.

 

Does Edwards play ILB?   Anyways even if he does project out as ILB in 3-4... you HAVE to take Ward if he is there!!!

[mojo]

We have a 70 million $ QB, a ton of money tied to our Oline, a supposed offensive genius head coach, we better go Defense heavy in this draft. I want bodies on the D line and depth everywhere else.  

[mistertim]

40 minutes ago, mojo said:

We have a 70 million $ QB, a ton of money tied to our Oline, a supposed offensive genius head coach, we better go Defense heavy in this draft. I want bodies on the D line and depth everywhere else.  

 

We also have a group of guys at RB who might even make any other NFL team's roster, outside of CT. We need a real impact RB as well.

[Silvernon]

2 hours ago, sjinhan said:

 

Does Edwards play ILB?   Anyways even if he does project out as ILB in 3-4... you HAVE to take Ward if he is there!!!

 

Edmunds probably has the higher upside with his frame.

He's got lineage.

You accept the risk.

[wilco_holland]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

We also have a group of guys at RB who might even make any other NFL team's roster, outside of CT. We need a real impact RB as well.

 

I think his point is: with a good QB, a good o-line and HC who is a O genius...we don't need an exeptional RB. We should be able to get production out of 5th round guys. Like Perine. 

 

Personally I rather improve the LG spot (key position 1 for me), because I think we can get production out of later round RB guys. We already have an exeptional 3th down guy in CT. So we just need to add somebody to the mix. 

 

After that I would say run stopping Dlineman, ILB, slot corner, speedrusher are positions I want to add. Safety would be interesting position, together with WR. We have some pieces at that position but not sure if they are long term succes factors. 

 

 

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Agreed, when a top 6-8 talent falls in your lap at 13, you pick him. Only exceptions for me would be if he was a LT or RG (and of course Fullback, Punter, Kicker yada yada). Other than that, pull the trigger. 

 

 

 

LT and RG shouldn't be exceptions here. Big season ahead for Trent, also Scherff may not spend his career locked at guard. Probably will, and it's somewhat moot on this draft I guess as no LT and RG is in that bracket.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Since it never happens I haven’t focused on doing a mock with Nelson there at 13. Here’s Fanspeak with that scenario. I kinda like it ...

1: Quenton Nelson, G Notre Dame

2: Nick Chubb, RB Georgia

4: Derrick Nnasi, NT FSU

5: JC Jackson, CB Maryland

5: PJ Hall, NT SHSU

6: Matthew Thomas, LB FSU

7: Troy Apke, S Penn State

7: Damon Webb, S Ohio State

 

On Chad Dukes last night Craig Hoffman was on talking draft and RBs. Both agreed RB will be addressed but something Hoffman said intrigued me. The team wants to compliment Chris Thompson and even Thompson knows he’s best off in a reduced touches role. Apparently the team wants a speed back that can work with Thompson and in some packages have both on the field creating an extra element of speed for the offense with Rookie RB, Thompson, Reed and Richardson on the field together. 

 

Perine would continue to grow as the power back. 

 

It was kind of interesting. Sounded like a RBBC is desired even more now than a 3DB, which was the first I’d heard. They were clearly talking about Ronald Jones, but interesting philosophy, because If that IS the approach, it might lend to a 4th round RB more than we might think. Someone like Hines.

 

thats the first I had heard that. Hoffman even made a comment like Chubb is a feature back and more of a power v. Speed guy which in the tone of the conversation was almost like “sure he’d be a nice player but not what the Skins are envisioning as a complement to what they have”

 

anyone else hearing this?

[bakedtater1]

Not sure I care for Doug's attitude about getting that third round pick back.. from what I understand that 3rd round is The Sweet Spot of this year's draft..

[SWFLSkins]

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

Hmmmmmmmmm. tough call indeed. 

[OVCChairman]

9 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

 

 

Honestly, I look at it this way:

 

Other than a LT, RG, and one DL in Allen, we could use talent everywhere on the roster. Therefore we should use the draft to acquire the best possible talent everywhere, with an understanding of what's already been addressed via free agency and is weak in the draft (WR for instance). 

 

My preference is for Fitzpatrick, James or Ward or a trade down, but honestly, I just want a draft where we're peeling off the best available talent that doesn't play LT, RG and WR (it's a terrible draft for WR's, while next years class is loaded). Otherwise I could live with almost anything, especially after Day 1. Just build a damn good roster so when we're forced to draft a rookie QB, he has stuff to work with, and said players on as cheap of contracts as possible so we can add a ton of talent to the team during his rookie deal if he hits (it's the new strategy to build a winner: The Russell Wilson Mode: Land a stud QB on a cheap deal, then acquire all the pieces necessary regardless of expense to contend during that 4 year window when he's super cheap and the fifth option year too). 

 

 

 

 

 

As a counter-conversation lets look at it this way.  At what positions do we have the biggest need?

 

LG

DT (primarily NT type)

RB

 

So lets say it's our pick at 13.  The draft speculation I've been seeing has Roquan Smith ranked ahead of Vita Vea.  If both players are available there, which one is going to have the biggest impact on the team?  

 

PERSONALLY I take Vea.  Someone on this board put it perfectly when they said, I'd rather take the best player to replace Ziggy Hood, than the player to replace Mason Foster.  Vea instantly makes the team better where Smith is coming into a position where we already have 2 starting caliber players.  

 

 

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

 

I think his point is: with a good QB, a good o-line and HC who is a O genius...we don't need an exeptional RB. We should be able to get production out of 5th round guys. Like Perine. 

 

Personally I rather improve the LG spot (key position 1 for me), because I think we can get production out of later round RB guys. We already have an exeptional 3th down guy in CT. So we just need to add somebody to the mix. 

 

After that I would say run stopping Dlineman, ILB, slot corner, speedrusher are positions I want to add. Safety would be interesting position, together with WR. We have some pieces at that position but not sure if they are long term succes factors. 

 

 

 

Right, because it's been working out so well for us so far. A great OL can help a JAG RB to an extent but it can't suddenly make him actually have moves or speed or elusiveness. We've been rolling with these mid to late round or undrafted RBs now for years and it has gotten us **** as far as a run game, even with a pretty good OL, which we do have. The only difference was 2012 but that was mostly because of the unique scheme. Meanwhile Dallas has Zeke, NY could get Barkley, and Philly is apparently targeting Guice. But I'm sure our JAG RBBC will suddenly become awesome if we get a new LG.

[crabbypatty]

I've pinned all my hopes on trading down for the browns 2 early picks in the 2nd round. I doubt they'd actually do it, but it works out basically even on the point chart.

But it would allow us to improve our team tremendously. We'd be able to get the best DL available, best RB available and a really good guard as well... and that's only using the 3 picks in the 2nd round.. there would be 6 more picks to address other positions.

 

It's too bad it won't happen, but it would be a dream come true if it could. If I was Bruce I'd be burning up cleveland's phone between now and tomorrow night.