Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

[Renegade7]

He'll probably take more votes from Trump then Biden.

 

He still needs to sit TF down right now.

[TradeTheBeal!]

An animatronic robot of Pauly Shore that simply repeated the phrase “health care is a human right, weeez” once every two hours for the next six months would probably get 2-3% of the National vote.

[tshile]

also, people asking why she didn’t come out in 2008... that was 12 years ago. Gay marriage was still a huge battle. The whole me too thing was what? 10 years out at that point? Come on. 
 

ps: I have no idea how credible the accusations are I’m just throwing stones  

[TheGreatBuzz]

50 minutes ago, tshile said:

I thought we all finally learned that lesson in the meetoo movement. 

I know I learned a lesson.....

 

 

[NoCalMike]

If enough evidence comes forward to show Biden likely did this, he is toast, however I am sure regardless of whether the allegations are true or not, the right wing media is going to run with them anyway.  They are going to use them either way because for them it is a win-win.  If the allegations gain enough traction it buries Biden completely.  If they the allegations lose steam and stop being covered by the "MSM" then the right-wing media gets more fuel for their old tired "Seeeee they won't cover the real news"

 

All this of course is not really going to change anyone's mind on who to vote for other than make some potential Biden supporters simply stay home, which I think is probably the actual goal of all this, not to mention the right-wing will use this as a "whataboutism" for all the people who have come forward to accuse Trump. 

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

Analysis: Did NY Democrats just tank Biden's nomination?   

 

>>> 

On Monday, officials in New York announced the cancellation of the state’s Democratic presidential primary, calling the event “essentially a beauty contest,” and a risk to public health in the face of the coronavirus pandemic.

While New York Democrats cited the inevitability of Joe Biden’s nomination for the party's candidacy as justification for calling off the primary, it could actually make the former VP's spot on the ticket anything but a forgone conclusion....<<<

 

Interesting take from a Catholic website.  Joe, technically, doesn't have the nomination yet.  It's debatable whether a late change, would be able to beat Trump.  It would depend on whether they can get the Dem electorate excited behing a replacement; if Joe has to be removed.

[The Evil Genius]

People who say they aren't Democrats or Republicans crack me up. Just admit you're embarrassed to be a Republican.  

[visionary]

 

[Koala]

 

Ok let me first apologize for my last two posts.  One where I suggested Id vote for Trump, due to frustration with Democrats.  Im gonna write that off to lockdown-inspired madness, and the defense mechanism of reaction formation (which is counterproductive by definition).  And then second, for a classless comment against Jumbo, not cause I hurt his feelings (Jumbo doesnt have feelings 😉) but for just for being crass and adding negativity to the atmosphere.  My apologies.

 

Having said that, my final point is that I hope Democrats will just stop being afraid of Bernie Sanders and of the progressive wing of the party.  In fact it is essential to the health of our Democracy, and really the only way that the two party system can kinda be close to palatable. 

 

Its not that endpoint of Centrism that is bad, but it is a terrible position for a party to take in a 2 party system. 

 

 Politics is a negotiation, and should be approached as such -- meaning you must understand that there is no real feasible way to implement all your ideas, even if you could, nor would you want to.  It would likely require far more resources and sacrifices than people are wiling to make. 

 

Republicans get this and they keep winning the overall war with Democrats.  Not only are they are not afraid to appear to be far-right, they actively encourage this illusion, even though the overall Republican electorate and establishment is probably more center-right. 

 

As a strategy for election success, Centrism is not actually that wise in certain atmospheres.  We live in a time of generally low voter turnout.  People only vote when they are passionate for a candidate, which doesnt bode well for  Centrism (I dont know if they necessarily vote when they are passionately against a candidate).  

 

However COVID19s affect on the political process may break that mold.  For one, people are now seeing that a Trump reelection might actually kill them, all politics and BS aside. 

 

Two, it may result in a mail-in election.  This may virtually guarantee a Democratic victory because it will hopefully make voting so easy that it will increase turnout to the point that **gasp** the results may actually reflect the true wishes of the majority of Americans -- which is anyone but Trump. 

 

[Koala]

12 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Think this was said before, what if he Biden picks Hillary as VP?

 

Think folks will "but her emails" her again and let Trump stay President?

 

 

No but theyll just find another reason to latch on to.  People just dislike her on a gut-level, which they need to rationalize.  Dont mistake the rationale for being the reason behind the dislike, there will always be another reason.

 

I think a Biden--Clinton ticket is the one ticket that Trump might beat.  So I would fully expect the Dumbocrats to jump aboard that suggestion.  Thats why we must never repeat it aloud again? Do you understand?

[RedskinsFan44]

Zero chance Biden chooses Clinton. Or there should be zero chance

 He needs someone young and charismatic. Someone who is going to be the next President after him, not just a good lackey who can deliver x demographic or region x.

[grego]

re- gillibrand supporting biden. 

 

that bothers me. she threw herself behind emma sulkowicz (aka mattress girl)- about as discredited an accusation as as youre likely to find-, but reade's story is beyond the pale?

 

I hate politics. 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

6 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

People who say they aren't Democrats or Republicans crack me up. Just admit you're embarrassed to be a Republican.  

I'd just like to point out that this is total and absolute BS.

[visionary]

I think one major problem with a lot of the left (Mostly not people on here. I’m talking about the type of people who consider liberal a dirty word) is that they seem to think they can get what they want without working with the majority of the country.  The other thing that scares me is that they may push too far and end up sending us all backwards again instead, as we’ve already seen the past few years with Trump and his support being in large part a backlash to the Obama/Biden years of leftward progress.

 

 And of course the left tends to eat their allies who fail to measure up to nigh impossible standards as we saw in the primaries.  And of course there are those who just want the moderates and the democrats in general to lose so Trump can force a backlash against him and spur on a socialist revolution, never mind how many lives that would cost us.

 

If a lot of these folks on the left want to be respected, they need to do more than push policy and politicians and whine and go home when they don’t get their way.  They need to come to the table and work to make the country better...together.  That means compromising, that means playing politics, and that means accepting that theirs is not the only way to get things done.

[Going Commando]

Biden better win.  If he doesn't, I see no reason to ever listen to or support a third way Democrat again.  @visionary the problem with centrist establishment Democrats is that they think leadership comes from the bottom up, and they kill their partisans to court an imaginary large swing voting bloc.  They lose unless they dig up a super charismatic candidate that can drag people out to vote, but even when they win elections they still lose in the end because they get into office and are afraid to wield their power.  They achieve nothing of lasting significance unless the movement is led from the bottom up, and they have their half-measure compromise reforms dismantled after the country lurches back to the right when they leave office.

[visionary]

11 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Biden better win.  If he doesn't, I see no reason to ever listen to or support a third way Democrat again.  @visionary the problem with centrist establishment Democrats is that they think leadership comes from the bottom up, and they kill their partisans to court an imaginary large swing voting bloc. 

Luckily not as imaginary as trying to win on a voting bloc that won’t vote and thinks you can get things done without working with the rest of the country. Have fun with Republicans in the White House until we’re all dead.

[Supernatural24]

39 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

I think one major problem with a lot of the left (Mostly not people on here. I’m talking about the type of people who consider liberal a dirty word) is that they seem to think they can get what they want without working with the majority of the country. 

 

Are we living in an alternate reality? That’s happening right now on the Right.

 

 

The issue with the left, imo, is the belief that electoral politics/voting is the answer. This isn’t saying do not vote. I would never say that. This country only moves two ways:  through money and people. The left doesn’t have money but they have the people. That means you have to organize and form networks. That means active engagement with democracy instead of waiting to vote like everyone else. Waiting for a politician to have the correct policies will never be the answer because politicians are reactionary by nature. They only change their mind when you force them through money or mass movements. 

 

I see that happening a lot more now, especially with what the Bernie Sanders campaign has done in bringing together different groups, but there is obviously more work to be done.

[Springfield]

7 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

People who say they aren't Democrats or Republicans crack me up. Just admit you're embarrassed to be a Republican.  

 

Same as people who claim to be libertarian. They're just hipster republicans.

[visionary]

22 minutes ago, Supernatural24 said:

Are we living in an alternate reality? That’s happening right now on the Right.

 

The issue with the left, imo, is the belief that electoral politics/voting is the answer. 

 

I see that happening a lot more now, especially with what the Bernie Sanders campaign has done in bringing together different groups, but there is obviously more work to be done.

 

You don’t say.  I see a lot of similarities with some of those on the left as the conservative Christians assured their way is the only way to salvation and woe to those who walk other path.  (And keep in mind, this is from watching and interacting with a lot of folks online and some offline who I generally respect and  like.  This is just what I’ve observed the past few years )

 

Politics and voting are part of the answer, hacking popular support and money are as well.  All are needed to get things done.

 

Unfortunately Bernie was mostly only able to unite people who supported his ideas or him personally.  If anything he and his followers succeeded in alienating many voters and uniting them against him.  There was a moment when it cold have been different, but instead of pivoting towards uniting the party the Sanders campaign chose to wage war against it.  He has done better since suspending his campaign, but in the future the left should pay more attention to the style of AOC than people like Brianna Joy Gray.

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

The far-right uses religion to imagine they’re morally superior and justify their inflexibility.

The far-left uses the “human rights/equality” angle to imagine and justify the same.

 

Hence, my little Sanders-jab/joke from last night.

 

12 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

An animatronic robot of Pauly Shore that simply repeated the phrase “health care is a human right, weeez” once every two hours for the next six months would probably get 2-3% of the National vote.

 

[Springfield]

The problem with the "left" is that they're so quick to tear down their own. They're often quick to point out faults and become very altruistic regarding character flaws.

 

You see it right now with the Biden accusations. No doubt, this will likely blow over within a couple days, but both hard right republicans and a certain section of democrats want this thing investigated to the core. The reason that none of the rape allegations of Trump never materialized is because the right never legitimatized them. Well here's the left, ready and willing to give Trump 4 more years over something that very likely has no merit at all. That's exactly what happens if Biden gets tanked by this. Bernie doesn't swoop in and wipe the floor as I'm certain many of those who want Biden investigated envision. The democrat ticket is ruined by this if it gets dragged on and on and on. You know who allows that? The "left".

[TradeTheBeal!]

4 minutes ago, Springfield said:

The problem with the "left" is that they're so quick to tear down their own. They're often quick to point out faults and become very altruistic regarding character flaws.

 

You see it right now with the Biden accusations. No doubt, this will likely blow over within a couple days, but both hard right republicans and a certain section of democrats want this thing investigated to the core. The reason that none of the rape allegations of Trump never materialized is because the right never legitimatized them. Well here's the left, ready and willing to give Trump 4 more years over something that very likely has no merit at all. That's exactly what happens if Biden gets tanked by this. Bernie doesn't swoop in and wipe the floor as I'm certain many of those who want Biden investigated envision. The democrat ticket is ruined by this if it gets dragged on and on and on. You know who allows that? The "left".

 

The Reade discussion from yesterday is a perfect example.  GoSkins, who I’m sure is a great guy, spent about 20 posts basically demanding that Biden be charged with rape and dragged into court now, immediately, before the election.

 

And what gives him the moral authority to issue such ridiculous demands?  The obvious fact that he is in a position of moral superiority.  

 

And what gives him this obvious moral superiority?  Why, his demands of course.  Only by following the path he has charted for us can we achieve a life free from hypocrisy and moral ambiguity.

 

And the final part of this loop is the fact that the “rape trial/she must be heard” thing is absolutely not going to happen.  So, he gets to spend the next 6 months raging against the injustice...thereby further cementing his own sense of superiority going forward.

 

Its a perfect feedback loop.

[The Evil Genius]

2 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'd just like to point out that this is total and absolute BS.

 

Trump's MAGA Republicanism doesn't embarrass you? 

[goskins10]

 

 

25 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

The Reade discussion from yesterday is a perfect example.  GoSkins, who I’m sure is a great guy, spent about 20 posts basically demanding that Biden be charged with rape and dragged into court now, immediately, before the election.

 

And what gives him the moral authority to issue such ridiculous demands?  The obvious fact that he is in a position of moral superiority.  

 

And what gives him this obvious moral superiority?  Why, his demands of course.  Only by following the path he has charted for us can we achieve a life free from hypocrisy and moral ambiguity.

 

And the final part of this loop is the fact that the “rape trial/she must be heard” thing is absolutely not going to happen.  So, he gets to spend the next 6 months raging against the injustice...thereby further cementing his own sense of superiority going forward.

 

Its a perfect feedback loop.

 

The irrational positions you describe above are just not true. I made the point that there is much hypocrisy in how Tara Reade is being dealt with and how the Kavanaugh and Trump accusers were dealt with. As far as moral superiority that is totally made up in your mind. I simply advocate for things being fair if possible.

 

Here is the kicker. None of you ever though to ask if i think he did it. The fact is I think he probably touched her inappropriately but it's unlikely he actually raped her. But that was never really my point. The point was, is and always will be that her complaints are being ignored or brushed aside out of hand by democrats becasue it's Biden. When it was republicans it was tear the house down to make sure the women get heard.  

 

I get why many get so fired up. The fear is that something like this will keep him from being elected. But if he can't stand up to this type of scrutiny now - and it will come from people that actually matter, not me who is just a single unimportant voice on a message board - do you think it gets better as the election gets closer? Are he and the dems that fragile that any accusations are enough to cost him the election? If so, then the party chose the wrong candidate. 

 

Again, just to be clear - I will be voting for whoever the democratic nominee is. Biden or someone else. And no I am not some Bernie supporter plant. I don't hate him but he was not my first choice either. But that does not mean Biden is a god and can do no wrong. But I said what I had to, I will be moving on - and honestly had already decided to until I saw the comment above. 

 

On a side note, it is odd that in then end with all the choices out there for the dems the two that made it the furthest were two old white guys. That is pretty sad actually. But I digress. 

 

Back to your comment above - sorry that being fair bothers you. I want the current douche bag out of office as much as anyone but I am not going to compromise my principals for it. If that makes me morally superior than we have much bigger problems in this country than Trump. We have an awful lot of people with no morals at all.