Llevron Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Both were premised with the idea that they would protect our citizens. You just disagree that building the wall protects our citizens... I'm pretty sure the premise of the wall was racism. The excuse was it would protect our citizens. 4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: ...And they are both massively expensive and impractical. I think they they are closer than you like to admit. Bernie and Trump sure are (similar). This is uncomfortably true imo. They are both populists by definition. Its just one is telling you the people with power and money are the ones oppressing you (they are) and the other is telling you that other poor people and immigrants are (they are not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, Llevron said: This is uncomfortably true imo. They are both populists by definition. Its just one is telling you the people with power and money are the ones oppressing you (they are) and the other is telling you that other poor people and immigrants are (they are not). Truth is everyone is oppressing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Truth is everyone is oppressing you. I feel you but logically I dont see how people with nothing coming here for the chance at getting something are oppressing me more than people using their billions to job the justice system and get away with raising AIDs meds from ~15 bucks to ~750 in a year without penalty. Either way, they do have similarities in message and I can see how that would scare people. But its the details that matter to me. We should be able to tell the difference between the two if you just pay attention to their pasts and their words. Its not even difficult, really. And the difference is stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Premised... premised... For trump it was a rally point, but it was still set up as... Why stop immigration? Because they are reaping your daughters and drugging your men. Because they are invading your hospitals and stealing our resources!... Bernie doing the same thing with healthcare and minimum wage. It just has better feels. When illegal immigrants have a lower crime rate then Americans and most mass shooting where by Americans, you really buying that's why he really was doing that? This was about race first, safety second at best. Quote Those world powers have a fraction of the population America has. It’s a lot easier small scale. And if things were going so great in those countries why is the approval rating of their leaders lower than Trumps? I suggest defending that stance in the health care thread. Trump is a cult, what does that have to do with our health care prices being at least twice that of everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Both were premised with the idea that they would protect our citizens. You just disagree that building the wall protects our citizens... ...And they are both massively expensive and impractical. I think they they are closer than you like to admit. Bernie and Trump sure are. Except one is nothing more than a rallying cry to racists that want to keep the brown people out and the other is actually about helping people and fixing a broken, exploited system . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, No Excuses said: Contested convention looking like a real possibility. Bernie underperformed and the center-left candidates got the most votes and delegates in NH. Trump will love and hate that at the same time. Love it for the disarray of the Democrats. Hate it because a contested Dam convention will crush his convention in the ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Please proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 I was actually just wondering yesterday what Paul Ryan was up to. Glad to see he hasn't changed much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 I dont really understand why they are so hard up on taking away peoples healthcare. Its a losing position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 What is their game? They aren't that stupid and they know they got crushed in large part due to their awful healthcare plan and shenanigans prior to the midterms. Is this just a desperate attempt to put something different in place to steal the Dem nominees thunder or a chance for Trump to try at the last minute to keep a campaign promise? This is going to blow up in their face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: This is going to blow up in their face Almost have to wonder if they are getting paid for this (not this part) and they just see Trump as dumb enough to actually do it. Basically using him and the Republican party as their sacrifice to get the job done no one else would do so they can get paid on the back end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 I'll go with "whatever makes them the most money because they can afford it no matter how bad it gets". Or at least think they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Those world powers have a fraction of the population America has. It’s a lot easier small scale. And if things were going so great in those countries why is the approval rating of their leaders lower than Trumps? Total size of healthcare need fluctuates based on population size, but so does the revenue (tax or otherwise). That still doesn't excuse why US has the highest per capita healthcare spending (by a large margin). If you need another fact to realize why the private insurance healthcare system in this country is broken, per capita spending for individuals covered by private insurance is roughly the same to individuals covered by medicare. Think about how preposterous it is that private insurance spends about the same money per person to cover people under 65 as medicare spends for people over. Population size, per capita income, cost of living, all these excuses are bull****. US has the most expensive per capita healthcare system in the world and not even close to the best patient outcome. Sander's and AOC's version of MFA may not be superior to universal coverage systems implemented in other developed countries, but almost, if not actually, every one of those country's system is superior to the US system. We are talking about re-importing drugs from US pharmaceutical companies from overseas FFS. As to approval ratings, obviously you should realize that more than just healthcare goes into approval ratings (for example, if a country has had a stable universal coverage system for decades and the current PM doesn't do anything to change it, that's hardly likely to factor in their approval rating). Also, lot of countries have multi-party parliamentary systems, so it's apples to oranges comparison. But, as an example, Trudeau started at 72 and hit an all time low of 46% approval at the end of 2019. You can probably count the number of times with one hand the instances when Trump went over 46. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: And if things were going so great in those countries why is the approval rating of their leaders lower than Trumps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 My primary is March 3rd (California's move from June to March is looking smart now). I've been locked on to Warren for quite awhile but tbh, I'm thinking California might be able to give Mayor Pete a good boost and prevent Bernie from gaining too much momentum. Still deciding between my heart and brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: My primary is March 3rd (California's move from June to March is looking smart now). I've been locked on to Warren for quite awhile but tbh, I'm thinking California might be able to give Mayor Pete a good boost and prevent Bernie from gaining too much momentum. Still deciding between my heart and brain. Mine is also March 3 (Virginia). I'm just going to vote for whoever I need to to make sure Bernie doesn't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Hopefully the fact that sanders underperformed from 2016 actually means something. i am very afraid of the idea that the more moderate candidates will split votes allowing sanders to get the nomination i think the sanders supports (much like the warren supporters) drastically overestimate how many people actually want that platform... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Bloomberg/Warren 2020 Lets do this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superozman Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Stupid question - but educational purposes for me: With Yang out for the Democratic nomination, could he turn around and run independent? My assumption is it would not be worthwhile in any way, but wasn't sure how past independents really came to any sort of popularity. He has a unique platform and a cult following, which I would guess are 2 of the key things you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, superozman said: Stupid question - but educational purposes for me: With Yang out for the Democratic nomination, could he turn around and run independent? My assumption is it would not be worthwhile in any way, but wasn't sure how past independents really came to any sort of popularity. He has a unique platform and a cult following, which I would guess are 2 of the key things you need. The only candidate that might be dumb enough to run as a third party candidate would be Tulsi and, while I don't think highly of her, I don't think she is that dumb. Anyone that does that would be persona non grata to every Dem for the rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 @bearrock I agree that healthcare isn’t by itself a huge factor in approval rankings... my point is a lot of the western world has many many social welfare programs... but as a fact it hasn’t done anything for their economy or their populations happyness (at least with their government) https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2019-08-23/at-the-g7-trump-s-approval-rating-is-second-to-one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Cooked Crack said: Please proceed. Trump and the GOP have handed all the ammunition Dems should need. Ads should be nonstop on health care. Non-****ing-stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said: My primary is March 3rd (California's move from June to March is looking smart now). I've been locked on to Warren for quite awhile but tbh, I'm thinking California might be able to give Mayor Pete a good boost and prevent Bernie from gaining too much momentum. Still deciding between my heart and brain. Isn’t Bernie leading there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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