twa Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, TheDoyler23 said: I struggle with anyone whom will say something like "If _____ isn't the nominee, I'm voting for Trump or writing in _____'s name. It's better America suffers for four more years under Trump if they won't elect someone other than _____." No use for Never Trumpers then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: Just vote for Donald and be done with it. If you don’t view Trump as the greater threat; then just vote for him. no... I have and will not vote for him. this is more bully tactics. “Accept my side or else you’re the enemy”. if you want my vote than pick a candidate that I’m willing to vote for. Otherwise, choose to not want my vote. Picking one you want and bullying me into supporting them isn’t something I’m going to let you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, tshile said: no... I have and will not vote for him. this is more bully tactics. “Accept my side or else you’re the enemy”. if you want my vote than pick a candidate that I’m willing to vote for. Otherwise, choose to not want my vote. Picking one you want and bullying me into supporting them isn’t something I’m going to let you do. #VoteDiva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, tshile said: no... I have and will not vote for him. this is more bully tactics. “Accept my side or else you’re the enemy”. if you want my vote than pick a candidate that I’m willing to vote for. Otherwise, choose to not want my vote. Picking one you want and bullying me into supporting them isn’t something I’m going to let you do. Many of them just can't get that (on both sides). Funny thing is the Trumpers use the exact same tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, tshile said: no... I have and will not vote for him. this is more bully tactics. “Accept my side or else you’re the enemy”. if you want my vote than pick a candidate that I’m willing to vote for. Otherwise, choose to not want my vote. Picking one you want and bullying me into supporting them isn’t something I’m going to let you do. What do you see as the greatest threat facing this country from a political perspective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hersh said: What do you see as the greatest threat facing this country from a political perspective? Extreme partisanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, nonniey said: Extreme partisanship. Not money in politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hersh said: What do you see as the greatest threat facing this country from a political perspective? Honestly I’m not sure. I think sanders platform could be very damaging. I also think trump is and can continue to be damaging. with trump it ends in 4 years. with sanders it’s permanent. and as stated, I don’t accept “lesser of two evils” as an argument. Because once you do, you’re stuck there, and you’re just perpetuating the situation. If there are enough people like me, then someone will eventually care to court us. If not, then my political views obviously don’t matter anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 I would go with populism meanwhile Bloomie gets the kiss of death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 If Sanders/Gabbard is the ticket, I’m moving to the Bahamas. Catch me at the Atlantis sportsbook, fam. Beers on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Llevron said: Not money in politics? No because extreme partisanship leads to people thinking those with differing political views are the enemy and will and has led to violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, tshile said: Honestly I’m not sure. I think sanders platform could be very damaging. I also think trump is and can continue to be damaging. with trump it ends in 4 years. with sanders it’s permanent. and as stated, I don’t accept “lesser of two evils” as an argument. Because once you do, you’re stuck there, and you’re just perpetuating the situation. If there are enough people like me, then someone will eventually care to court us. If not, then my political views obviously don’t matter anyways. what makes you think the damage Trump does ends in 4 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hersh said: what makes you think the damage Trump does ends in 4 years? Right, so that’s the problem. the damage done to social progress is probably here to stay. The court system has been stacked. the damage done to foreign policy... I’m guessing but I think most of the important players understand what is going on and replacing trump will return things to normal. Let’s face it, they’re not turning to Russia and China ... I think the economic damage can be undone quickly. I think we could argue for days about that and all the details and subset of issues. But you’re right, it’s hardly a guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, tshile said: Right, so that’s the problem. the damage done to social progress is probably here to stay. The court system has been stacked. the damage done to foreign policy... I’m guessing but I think most of the important players understand what is going on and replacing trump will return things to normal. Let’s face it, they’re not turning to Russia and China ... I think the economic damage can be undone quickly. I think we could argue for days about that and all the details and subset of issues. But you’re right, it’s hardly a guarantee. I view it as more the institutional damage. A more intelligent demagogue will try to rise after Trumps success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 31 minutes ago, Hersh said: What do you see as the greatest threat facing this country from a political perspective? voters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jumbo said: voters You tell em Jumbo!!!! Wait a minute.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Hersh said: I view it as more the institutional damage. A more intelligent demagogue will try to rise after Trumps success. Yeah, I can see that. I can also see why someone like you would read my last few posts and want to blow a gasket and yell at me. But you haven't yet, so thanks for that I get why my position is frustrating and may not even make sense. I understand why you all see it the way you do, i really do. I have a hard time thinking I'd vote for anyone other then the dem candidate. But the truth is, someone like Sanders would at least make me consider voting 3rd party. The democrats need to know that if they don't already. If the decision is that they don't care, that's fine. It's not my political party, so it's not really my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 and then i flip on the news just now and it goes right to trump having his latest brain spasms in an oval room meeting and he goes off on stone, the doj, how mueller was a hoax, and a long crazy list of exaggerated lies that keep growing, stated as facts... and i go back to thinking every politically active person who's simply halfway decent ought to be out there actively campaigning against him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 It really wasn't that long ago (40 years) that the the highest tax bracket was partially taxed at > 70%. Personally, I find this newish idea of a top tax rate at <40% an amusing hill to die on for some. Especially incomes that 99.9% of us will never see in a year. Except PB. He's a baller. 1 hour ago, Hersh said: What do you see as the greatest threat facing this country from a political perspective? Still Boomers. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 The way I see it -4 years of Bernie and whatever plans he may actually be able to eke through Congress would be nowhere near as dangerous or irreversible as 4+ more years of Trump and family continuing to strip away our norms and molding the country in their image. Other countries have had much more left wing policies than us and gone back and forth on them, still retaining their democracy and either thriving with them or changing their policies. It’s a lot harder to come back from authoritarianism. If you think it’s bad now after the acquittal, just wait until Trump decides he’s immune to any punishment, and doesn't need to worry about being re-elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: It really wasn't that long ago (40 years) that the the highest tax bracket was partially taxedat > 70%. Pwrsonally, I find this newish idea of a top tax rate at <40% an amusing hill to die on for some. Especially incomes that 99.9% of us will never see in a year. Except PB. He's a baller. On one hand, I agree. On the hand, the economy and wealth no longer lives in an isolated vacuum. The rich can and will find every which way to dodge taxes, including expatriation. Taxing the rich at 70% no longer works if one can easily avoid it by moving to a tax haven and still have access to US markets without much issue. Now that presents two apparent solutions. Raise taxes and make exit tax so crippling as to make leaving impractical or more punitive than just paying the increased taxes. My preferred solution would be to leverage the power of the US market and make sure that you can't park your corporation and its profits in a tax haven and still have access to US markets without paying taxes for your transactions here. If you're gonna do business in the US, I don't care if your company is in Virginia, Ireland, or Caymans, you all have to pay taxes on your profits (with due credit to taxes paid to other jurisdictions). To me, reworking the tax code to do away with lot of the corporate tax breaks and closing the loopholes is at least the first step that needs to be taken before we talk about more drastic measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 i do note more...conservatives....(not sure what's a truthful way of labeling right-siders these days), like our own twa and noinney, who for the first time are communicating concerns over extreme partisanship as a serious issue and especially its connection to violence....like i've pointed out numerous times and will continue to repeat, for six decades i've listened to republicans deny, reject, and deflect on issues within their party like racism, islamophobia, homophobia (all with violence-prone components), and simply the violent partisanship from supported subgroups like white nationalists and militias and other stuff in-between given the hugely increased levels of anger and hostility among many dems/lefties---something i also notice as very significant in scope---i'm hardly surprised at such newfound sensitivities being expressed (but welcome aboard)...this may be the first time since the 60's that right wingers are seeing such anger sent in their direction at such an order of magnitude per the violence thing---lots of things lead to civil violence on large scales, not just partisanship, but partisanship sure can be a feed line since politics, like religion, is built on emotional thinking and self-identity (mainly insecurities) for many folks---and sometimes violence is right on the money as a response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 @bearrock I've always thought that we should leverage access to our economy to fix that, and to address issues like China undercutting us on labor by not having environmental laws and labor laws like we do. I always found it dumb that economists think it's perfectly fine to have a town fall into disrepair and drug addictiveness because manufacturing was moved overseas, where it's cheaper to make things and ship them here because they abuse their people and their environment.... all because GDP goes up, the prices of widgest goes down, and they can say "look at utility!"... i love economists, but they're never going to get me off that criticism. it's ****ing stupid. just because they don't have a great way to measure the cost of the drug addiction, the towns falling apart, the lack of attention to this problem we give it, and wrap it up neatly in their numbers, doesn't mean you just outright ignore it all. I'm speaking without thinking things through clearly right here, so I may need to retract this later, but...: I believe the only thing Trump has done to date, that I actually agree with (in principal), was going after China. I don't like the way he did it, he was sort of a bull in a china shop, but I also accept that decades of our politicians ignoring it means eventually someone's going to do something about it and maybe they aren't the right person and maybe they aren't doing it the right way... but that's the cost of decades of the 'right' people just kicking the can. But someone needs to stand up and say the system is broken and needs to be fixed, and then actually do something about it. Decades of lip service aren't good enough. So while Trump was hardly the right person, and the way he did it was hardly the right way, I can at least appreciate that finally someone did something to put China on notice about the whole situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Not really a Sanders fan, but he’s been critical of our long term trade policies as well hasn’t he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, visionary said: Not really a Sanders fan, but he’s been critical on our long term trade policies as well hasn’t he? Yes I believe so. I don't know where he's actually voted on the issue though.... I was more blaming the overall political structure of the last 40 years. They've all, as a group, kicked the can down the road. Then they want to complain about what Trump did. Well... if the rest of you did your job (your actual job... not campaigning...), then this wouldn't even have been possible. But you didn't.. so... here we are... Thats both parties; congress, senate, and white house. Over, what 30-40 years? I feel the exact same way about immigration. Don't sit around for decades not fixing a problem then tell me how wrong the person who does something is. You had your chance, you opted to kick the can down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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