Hersh Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 50 minutes ago, tshile said: Yeah, I can see that. I can also see why someone like you would read my last few posts and want to blow a gasket and yell at me. But you haven't yet, so thanks for that I get why my position is frustrating and may not even make sense. I understand why you all see it the way you do, i really do. I have a hard time thinking I'd vote for anyone other then the dem candidate. But the truth is, someone like Sanders would at least make me consider voting 3rd party. The democrats need to know that if they don't already. If the decision is that they don't care, that's fine. It's not my political party, so it's not really my choice. you aren’t completely wrong about wanting to yell but I will reserve yelling for the Bernie bros that say they won’t vote for the Dem if he loses the nomination. I won’t hold back on them. At the end of the day people have the answers inside if they are willing to self examine. Asking non-leading questions is a better approach then trying to tell you how wrong you are because you have to come to your own conclusion. Unfortunately inception isn’t real yet...or is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 A weird thing for someone who actually supports Bernie’s policies to be arguing in the primary. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 hours ago, nonniey said: Extreme partisanship. Says the republican. amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Just now, Momma There Goes That Man said: Says the republican. amazing Haven't ya heard. The lefts gon to far left. Radicals. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 re: @visionary's post with tweets about Klobuchar's base... College educated white women... that's a solid bloc to have. Probably the smartest/most rational voting bloc (Not to make the whiteness a thing, but all the studies i've been seeing for a while now show women tend to do significantly better in leadership positions, in positions of decision making, and in financial decision making roles at companies than men; i realize not only white women are doing those roles but I imagine white college educated women are the majority [even if only a slight majority] of the women in those studies just do to the demographics of society... so they fit neatly into the overall picture of those studies; and there's other elements to non-white people supporting, or not, a white person that don't have anything to do with what i'm saying) (phew, hope I explained i'm not trying to be racist there...) Unfortunately it's not enough to carry you through the election. But, it aligns neatly with what I think of Klobuchar. I'll line up with college-educated women every day of the week. ... 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 42 minutes ago, tshile said: @bearrock I believe the only thing Trump has done to date, that I actually agree with (in principal), was going after China. I don't like the way he did it, he was sort of a bull in a china shop, but I also accept that decades of our politicians ignoring it means eventually someone's going to do something about it and maybe they aren't the right person and maybe they aren't doing it the right way... but that's the cost of decades of the 'right' people just kicking the can. But someone needs to stand up and say the system is broken and needs to be fixed, and then actually do something about it. Decades of lip service aren't good enough. So while Trump was hardly the right person, and the way he did it was hardly the right way, I can at least appreciate that finally someone did something to put China on notice about the whole situation. I totally agree and this is one of Trump's biggest strengths: identifying the problems that resonates with the people. I believe this is Sanders' strength as well, which explains their strength with blue collar workers. This also points to the fact that blue collar workers will drift further and further away from Dems until they start making it a priority. I criticize Trump's solutions as a blunt cudgel to an intricate problem, but it doesn't mean the problem isn't very real. On a macro scale I believe global trade maximizes wealth, promotes efficiency, and fosters peace. Where the train goes off the track is how that wins and losses gets divvied up domestically. FTAs under both parties have typically sacrificed manufacturing to leverage foreign markets to open up to our financial, professional, and tech industries (and large agriculture). Then the screwed manufacturing sector gets a paltry retraining program while Wall Street and Silicon Valley swims in money. It's bat**** stupid and no wonder manufacturing towns are pissed off at everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Hersh said: What do you see as the greatest threat facing this country from a political perspective? 2 hours ago, nonniey said: Extreme partisanship. I think this may fit in under the broad category of extreme partisanship, but from my perspective, the most concerning proposal for the future of this country I have seen is suggesting court packing (adding large numbers of judges to the Supreme Court) to allow for restoring a liberal majority there. That just seems like a dangerous path that effectively eliminates the concept of a judicial branch and the constitution at the same time, while setting up a future of escalating partisanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Nerm said: I think this may fit in under the broad category of extreme partisanship, but from my perspective, the most concerning proposal for the future of this country I have seen is suggesting court packing (adding large numbers of judges to the Supreme Court) to allow for restoring a liberal majority there. That just seems like a dangerous path that effectively eliminates the concept of a judicial branch and the constitution at the same time, while setting up a future of escalating partisanship. I tend to agree but it wouldn’t be considered by the left if not Moscow Mitch didn’t **** over Obama on constantly on judges including scotus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Says the republican. amazing Yeah I got it - I'm the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, nonniey said: Yeah I got it - I'm the enemy. do you get a mask or a hat? all i got is this damn t-shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, nonniey said: Yeah I got it - I'm the enemy. Yes, the enemy of our clandestine, Communist, satanic oligarchy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 It's so weird to me to see someone say they are more worried about M4A, than the destruction of our democratic institutions and a shift towards authoritarianism and an oligarchich state. I think those people are vastly under-estimating the damage Trump is doing and will continue to do with 4 to who knows how many more years on his plate. Who is going to stop him? He damn sure won't stop himself. Do you know how bad white collar crime is going to be in this country after another 4 years of his gangsterism corrupting our social fabric? Good luck trusting any of the food you buy or anything needing some degree of regulation and god, lets not even get started on destroying the future of our children because we still won't be doing **** to address or even admit to climate change. I can sort of get how some white guys can just gloss over the social changes these cultists want to implement because it doesn't affect them, but damn, the rest of us can't shrug that off so easily. This guy is going to keep adding non-white countries to his travel ban, if for nothing else than to keep feeding his base. Which is a problem for a good chunk of my family. Then there is the deficit and what mechanisms we'll have in place to deal with the next recession/depression. Who here feels great about Trump's ability to handle that? Good luck having a free press as well by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Interesting. Not great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said: It's so weird to me to see someone say they are more worried about M4A, than the destruction of our democratic institutions and a shift towards authoritarianism and an oligarchich state. I think those people are vastly under-estimating the damage Trump is doing and will continue to do with 4 to who knows how many more years on his plate. Who is going to stop him? He damn sure won't stop himself. Do you know how bad white collar crime is going to be in this country after another 4 years of his gangsterism corrupting our social fabric? Good luck trusting any of the food you buy or anything needing some degree of regulation and god, lets not even get started on destroying the future of our children because we still won't be doing **** to address or even admit to climate change. I can sort of get how some white guys can just gloss over the social changes these cultists want to implement because it doesn't affect them, but damn, the rest of us can't shrug that off so easily. This guy is going to keep adding non-white countries to his travel ban, if for nothing else than to keep feeding his base. Which is a problem for a good chunk of my family. Then there is the deficit and what mechanisms we'll have in place to deal with the next recession/depression. Who here feels great about Trump's ability to handle that? Good luck having a free press as well by the way. As much as you can't understand me, I can't understand you. As much as I hate trump, the "our democracy is doomed" stuff seems entirely overplayed to me. It's possible for trump to be a corrupt president who does illegal things, and it not mean our entire democracy will come crumbling down. I'm not saying I'm not concerned, I am. But I haven't... well.. i'm not really worried about my food for the foreseeable future, or anything else. And half of your items seem to note apply. Climate change? that's not a trump thing, that's an anti-science thing and we got lots of those people. White collar crime out of control? 😂 Think we already got that problem. Anyways, the point is that we have very different views about the impending doom of our democracy. I understand why you feel the way you do. I just don't think you're correct, and do not currently feel that way myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, nonniey said: Yeah I got it - I'm the enemy. no it’s just hilarious that the resident Obama basher is pearl clutching “extreme partisanship” when you had a moderate President with a hopeful and unifying message for the country that tried to compromise yet he was ****ed over for 8 years by people like you with the exact extreme partisanship that is now suddenly a big deal to you. so sorry if your belief comes across as a little hollow and laughably insincere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 36 minutes ago, tshile said: I'm not saying I'm not concerned, I am. But I haven't... well.. i'm not really worried about my food for the foreseeable future, or anything else. I was afraid you were going to post that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 57 minutes ago, tshile said: As much as you can't understand me, I can't understand you. As much as I hate trump, the "our democracy is doomed" stuff seems entirely overplayed to me. It's possible for trump to be a corrupt president who does illegal things, and it not mean our entire democracy will come crumbling down. I'm not saying I'm not concerned, I am. But I haven't... well.. i'm not really worried about my food for the foreseeable future, or anything else. And half of your items seem to note apply. Climate change? that's not a trump thing, that's an anti-science thing and we got lots of those people. White collar crime out of control? 😂 Think we already got that problem. Anyways, the point is that we have very different views about the impending doom of our democracy. I understand why you feel the way you do. I just don't think you're correct, and do not currently feel that way myself. Yea, one of us is either underestimating or overestimating the damage. I just don’t see the justification in underestimating all this when we have seen things done by Trump no other president has done before and the escalation of threshold breaking, corrupt behavior only continues. When have we we seen him have a moral or principalistic line that he wouldn’t cross? Never. We know his patterns, you were just schooling twa the low investment troll on it in the other thread. And i bring up the climate because he has made it our official position as a country that climate change concerns are bad for business. That means the US will not be a reliable ally in taking part to address it. And speaking of not being a reliable ally, what kind of world are we stepping into when our president talks of wanting to be more like China or Russia and continues to **** on our traditional alliances? And what happens here when he escalates from investigating his political rivals to jailing and killing them? Do you think that wont happen? And yes we are living in the golden age of white collar crime. Do you think that won’t escalate and get much worse? Look at the regulations and entitlements they are getting rid of or proposing to remove in their new budget and then escalate that volume and pace as you forecast out over the next 4 years. If you’re just looking at Trump as he is behaving now, your already underestimating the damage. He will not stop, he will only get worse. He damn sure won’t get better. What gives you confidence or security that this wont happen? How are we going to handle the next crisis or economic downturn with all this rotting our foundations? Which state is the next Puerto Rico to be left behind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 God damnit now I remember why I stopped donating to politicians i jus gave you money. It’s less than 24 hours later and you’re already hitting me up again? Gtfo with that nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 39 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said: . I just don’t see the justification in underestimating all this when we have seen things done by Trump I think I can respond to the entire post with this: I understand where you’re coming from and I actually agree with pretty much everything said. the difference is that I do not think 4 more years will lead to a dictatorship; that our democracy will crumble. I have more faith in the institutions and people than that. I have wavered. It’s hard to watch supposedly respectable people resign in protest and not ask “so if the responsible people are leaving what exactly is left....?....” it is absolutely hard to watch the republicans fall in line seemingly without blinking and not go “huh? Every single one of you? No ones gonna go ‘yeah man you got caught this time sorry’? Not one of you will buck trump?” I have had the “we’re ****ed” thought quite a bit. It has not taken over my overall opinion of the most likely outcome of our country from 4 more years of trump. yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, tshile said: I think I can respond to the entire post with this: I understand where you’re coming from and I actually agree with pretty much everything said. the difference is that I do not think 4 more years will lead to a dictatorship; that our democracy will crumble. I have more faith in the institutions and people than that. I have wavered. It’s hard to watch supposedly respectable people resign in protest and not ask “so if the responsible people are leaving what exactly is left....?....” it is absolutely hard to watch the republicans fall in line seemingly without blinking and not go “huh? Every single one of you? No ones gonna go ‘yeah man you got caught this time sorry’? Not one of you will buck trump?” I have had the “we’re ****ed” thought quite a bit. It has lot taken over my overall opinion of the most likely outcome of our country from 4 more years of trump. yet. We've got months until the election and years until he 'leaves office' and maybe years after if his family members or allies manage to hold on to the white house one way or another. Look at what has happened already before impeachment and then how much has happened in the last week, and imagine how much worse it will get. Just imagine how indoctrinated people will be by then. It's hard enough talking about politics with people already.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Let's just see what the comments say.... oh...yep a lot of a name calling against Pete. Classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 @tshile I was trying to quote you point about kinda agreeing with going after China but I’m having trouble with the quote function. So I’ll just add that I don’t absolutely hate his policy towards NK. I don’t love it but after 50 years, I’m willing to try something new. Everyone crying about how he “legitimized” Kim. Well, not legitimizing him didn’t stop him from getting a ****ing nuke. So I’m willing to change it up. Last policy hasn’t really worked out as we’d hoped. Regarding the whole “Bernie or _________ would be better than trump no matter how much I disagree with that person’s stance” just makes me think about the quote regarding the devil you know. If October 2016 you told me Trump would be President and asked me to guess what February 2020 would look like, I’d have bet we’d be well into a nuclear winter. So the fact that we aren’t at least gives me something to be thankful for. Either way, I’m ready to get the civil war going. I don’t want to go into a Mad Max world when I’m on the wrong side of 60. Let’s get this **** going already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: So I’ll just add that I don’t absolutely hate his policy towards NK. What is it right now? Does anyone actually know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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