Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

[PleaseBlitz]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

I think that it has a net benefit on the US economy is extremely unlikely.

 

It isn't like the people that have the money that is going to be used to pay off the debt are hiding it under their mattress.

 

It is in the economy doing something.  Let's say they put it in the bank.  This means that banks now have more money to lend, which means that can (should) lower interest rates, which means it is easier to buy a house, which means in fact we propping up home ownership.

 

It's in the stock market (or other trading market).  It would take a Nobel laureate to study whether $1 does more economic good sitting in the stock market versus educating a young person.  I don't even know where to start with that, but it's a really interesting question.  

 

The next question is, given the economic inequality in this country and the fact that the top 0.1% percent of the people own about the same amount of assets as the bottom 90 percent, if the economic impacts are more or less even, what is the harm in taxing the ultrawealthy and giving it to anyone else?  I personally think the answer here is yes, the ultrawealthy don't pay nearly enough in taxes.  

 

The next question is, okay, let's assume everyone is on board with taxing the ultrawealthy more.  Is paying off student loans the highest and best use of that money?  Probably not the single best, but educating young people and allowing them to enter the real world without crippling debt is certainly a worthy goal, and also is likely to have economic and other benefits throughout the broader economy.  

[Fergasun]

Honestly, the mistake was made when college debt was not dischargable in bankruptcy. Every Congressman who supported this should no longer be voted into Congress.

We need to reverse this and let everything sort itself out. Then these college loans won't be handed out like candy, because there is risk of losing money to the lender.

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

It's in the stock market (or other trading market).  It would take a Nobel laureate to study whether $1 does more economic good sitting in the stock market versus educating a young person.  I don't even know where to start with that, but it's a really interesting question.  

 

The next question is, given the economic inequality in this country and the fact that the top 0.1% percent of the people own about the same amount of assets as the bottom 90 percent, if the economic impacts are more or less even, what is the harm in taxing the ultrawealthy and giving it to anyone else?  I personally think the answer here is yes, the ultrawealthy don't pay nearly enough in taxes.  

 

The next question is, okay, let's assume everyone is on board with taxing the ultrawealthy more.  Is paying off student loans the highest and best use of that money?  Probably not the single best, but educating young people and allowing them to enter the real world without crippling debt is certainly a worthy goal, and also is likely to have economic and other benefits throughout the broader economy.  

 

But forgiving student loans isn't educating people.  The people are educated.

 

I'd absolutely buy that taxing the ultra rich to improve our education system and make it more equitable (at all levels) would be a positive thing to do.

 

I'm not for across the board free college, but I am completely for massively ramping out government funding of colleges to lower tuition costs to cancel out the last 30+ years of over inflation tuition increases for in state tuitions at public universities and doing other things to help people that actually need help paying for college and can, want to, and should go to college.  I think if you made it absolutely free, you'd just water the down the importance of a college education and water down the quality of a college education.

 

If we are (through the government)  paying colleges to teach to the lowest students, some colleges will take that money and the students won't really care if it is free to them.

 

1 hour ago, Fergasun said:

Honestly, the mistake was made when college debt was not dischargable in bankruptcy. Every Congressman who supported this should no longer be voted into Congress.

We need to reverse this and let everything sort itself out. Then these college loans won't be handed out like candy, because there is risk of losing money to the lender.

 

Most college loan debt is held by the federal government, which is why it is exempted from bankruptcy (other debts held by the federal government also exempt (e.g. unpaid taxes)).

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

18 hours ago, tshile said:

Yeah there’s a **** ton of us that paid our bills or paid outright for school that get nothing while all these other people get their debts forgiven. 

 

I’d also like to see where she draws boundaries for free school cause the last one to release something like this excluded my family from this thing that’s supposedly so important. 

 

But it doesn’t matter because I’m not voting for anyone who wants to give money away to people because they took out loans and tell the rest of us “too bad .”

 

It makes me so mad I could see myself voting for trump over it. We’ll see

I'm with you until the last line.  I'd probably go 3rd party again.

 

People learn different things in college.  A lot of people hopefully learned not to borrow money you can't pay back.  Want free college?  Earn a GI Bill.

 

I'm still catching up on the rest of the thread.

[The Evil Genius]

This isn't directed at you Buzz ...

 

I've got about 144 or so more important issues that would keep me from voting 3rd party against Trump. But to each their own. Just don't pretend that it isn't a vote for Trump (especially if you live in a battleground state). 

 

If after 3 3/4 years you can't see the damage that Trump's GOP has caused, then I seriously doubt you would have voted Democrat to begin with. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

40 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Want free college?  Earn a GI Bill.

 

"Want an affordable higher education? Gotta put your life on the line"

 

Yeah, we are doing something wrong as a country if this is what we are trying to accomplish.

 

33 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

This isn't directed at you Buzz ...

 

I've got about 144 or so more important issues that would keep me from voting 3rd party against Trump. But to each their own. Just don't pretend that it isn't a vote for Trump (especially if you live in a battleground state). 

 

If after 3 3/4 years you can't see the damage that Trump's GOP has caused, then I seriously doubt you would have voted Democrat to begin with. 

 

Yeah but I didn't make the cutoff to have my college debt eliminated. Damn you libtards, you reluctantly pushed me into the arms of Trump again!

[Llevron]

Yea its silly to me to make "free money" the line you draw with our current issues as a country. I get it, its not fair. But so many other things arnt either and they actually have a chance to directly hurt you. 

 

Specifically I dont understand the line you draw between this argument and the medicare argument in the other thread. In that one folks argue that its not reasonable to expect every old person to have things (like a willing family, or enough money) in place to take care of them in their ancient years. But in this thread some of those same folks are arguing that, essentially, you should have done things like I did if you didn't want debt. I dont understand how you can want to take care of one group of vulnerable people and say straight up **** the other group of vulnerable people. I mean, I understand how I guess - you let personal experience cloud your judgment. And thats understandable. But in my mind that doesn't make logical sense. 

 

I generalize because I really am not trying to single anyone out. 

[HOF44]

My thing with paying of college for people is what they earned a degree in.  I like using policy to achieve outcomes that as a government we might want.  If you went to school in certain fields and achieved a degree you get debt/partial debt relief.  If you paid 100K for a Master of Arts you are on your own.  

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

 

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

he has no interest courting the black vote. 

 

He sounds like every middle of the road Democrat we are upset within the party right now. 

[twa]

If you expect more public funds than already provided then the public should determine what education you get and where......and set conditions for your performance and worthiness.

 

Less choice,more expectations and outside control of your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

My thing with paying of college for people is what they earned a degree in.  I like using policy to achieve outcomes that as a government we might want.  If you went to school in certain fields and achieved a degree you get debt/partial debt relief.  If you paid 100K for a Master of Arts you are on your own.  

 

Totally agree on that. It shouldn't just be "free" to do what you want and abuse. And I would even be in favor of you needing to pay it back if you dont do anything with it. Kind of like how my job does. Free as long as you use it to further our interests....if not you pay it back after 2 years. Thats way too simple for the country, but I hope you get my point. 

[HOF44]

I consider myself a Dem and have no problem denying incarcerated Felons their vote.  Once released and their debt paid they should be allowed to vote again.   

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, twa said:

If you expect more public funds than already provided then the public should determine what education you get and where......and set conditions for your performance and worthiness.

 

Less choice,more expectations and outside control of your life.

 

I think thats more than fair for free education. Do you? I would sign up for that (within reason). 

[Bozo the kKklown]

4 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

I consider myself a Dem and have no problem denying incarcerated Felons their vote.  Once released and their debt paid they should be allowed to vote again.   

And my thinking is that if they are citizens, then they should have that right. Your rights do not stop when you are in prison.

[twa]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I think thats more than fair for free education. Do you? I would sign up for that (within reason). 

 

 

Certainly fair, and we have many programs that already do so I'm willing to expand.

Of course if many went to community college or vocational schools they would have less debt now.

The more personal freedom you give up the greater the reward.

 

To get a GI bill you give up quite a bit to gain more choices later,programs like teach america less so....but still conditioned on restricted choice.

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

[HOF44]

4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

And my thinking is that if they are citizens, then they should have that right. Your rights do not stop when you are in prison.

Well ya they kinda do.  Otherwise I don't think anyone would stay there.  

[The Evil Genius]

10 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

And my thinking is that if they are citizens, then they should have that right. Your rights do not stop when you are in prison.

 

Uh yeah they do. You lose your right to privacy first and foremost. You lose the right to possess items deemed contraband (right to property). You lose the right to bear arms (or arm bears). Your due process rights aren't effected but many others are limited or non existent.

[Bozo the kKklown]

2 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

Well ya they kinda do.  Otherwise I don't think anyone would stay there.  

 

2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Uh yeah they do. You lose your tight to privacy first and foremost. You lose the right to possess items deemed contraband (right to property). Your due process rights aren't effected but many others are limited or non existent.

Of course you are being punished, but you don't lose due process. You don't lose freedom of religious expression. You should have the right to vote as it isnt putting anyone in danger. 

 

 

[HOF44]

3 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

Of course you are being punished, but you don't lose due process. You don't lose freedom of religious expression. You should have the right to vote as it isnt putting anyone in danger. 

 

Thats what you believe.  But the reality is you do lose rights when imprisoned and the government gets to choose which ones.  The courts then are responsible to decide the constitutionality of the rights taken away.   

[Force1958]

3 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

I keep asking folks on Twitter that call for impeachment on what grounds would they do this.  So far I've not gotten anything of substance as a reply.  There's a reason for that as he's done nothing to warrant it, absolutely nothing.  It would go down faster than the Green New Deal did.

40 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

You all do remember the 2016 election, right??  Polls mean nothing.  The group responsible for each poll taken typically direct the poll audience to those with a predisposed position on the topic.  Happens all the time.  Oh, I wanted to add this link to the partners the polling group has.  I rest my case.  https://tulchinresearch.com/clients/