ESPN.com: Kirk Cousins contract talks with Redskins on positive track

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

 

Could be true but my mind is working more along these lines.

 

Market value contract after Carr deal is around $80 million guaranteed

Inflation next year post Stafford and possibly Ryan and Rodgers makes it closer to $85 or even $90 million.

Tag is $24 million this year.

 

Kirk signs LTD 2017 makes $80 million guaranteed.

Kirk waits 12 months, pockets $24 million tag plus next years guarantees for a total of probably $110 million in guaranteed money

 

Kirk is the one not on board, not for personal reasons but simply because why would he leave so much money on the table when he holds all the leverage.

 

Or the contract that was offered in May had like 40 million in guarantees and the FO did nothing else. This is 100% on the FO. And they deserve everything they get, and more.

32 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Meh, the team is more important than the player. We can keep hovering around .500 with a good run game and a defense, while we groom a new QB.

 

We'll have 3 main guys playing on OYDs, making it this year or bust.

 

We don't have either.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Or the contract that was offered in May had like 40 million in guarantees and the FO did nothing else. This is 100% on the FO. And they deserve everything they get, and more.

 

We don't have either.

And we wont if we keep dumping that much into one position. 

 

Maybe by next year we will.

[WelshSkinsFan]

I think the FO may have screwed up with the initial low offers and ruined any chance that goodwill might lead to a small hometown discount but in truth I just think Kirk is in an historic position leverage wise and is smart enough to recognize it and milk it for what it is worth.  The players are treated as disposable garbage in this league and I guarantee every one of them is cheering him on right now and telling him not to fold, this is a dream come true for the NFLPA ahead of the next CBA discussions.  Guaranteed money is the hottest topic in football contracts and Kirk is about to get paid like the GOAT because the owners system just backfired and blew up in their face.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Just now, theTruthTeller said:

If the FO isn't making another offer today, they must be on the phone with other teams.  And, by "other teams", I mean SF and Cleveland.

 

Right?

 

Of course, his value without a LTD drops pretty quickly after 4PM today and it would take some time to get details ironed out in a contract, so unless they've been working on a anticipated trade all week, it's probably too late.

 

Oh well, I'm sure they'll find another gem in the 4th round next year.  No need to waste money or a high draft pick on a QB.

 

No team is going to trade for Kirk now, imo (talking serious/legit offers - not 4th round picks, etc.).  Why would they give up anything for a player that will most likely be transition tagged in 2018 where they can make offers?  One might say, because we could match said offer and they miss out, which is true, but I'd imagine that what they are willing to offer after the 4pm deadline isn't going to be worth us pulling off a trade for.  

 

I'm not for this, get something/anything for him now by trading him philosophy.  As far as the money goes, I could really care less if the Skins are paying more than they have to, it's not my money and the salary cap keeps going up anyhow.  I said it last season that it wouldn't surprise me if Kirk didn't sign long term again this off-season and played under the tag.  Which is what appears to be happening.  He is maximizing his earnings.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

Nah, if both KC and the Skins have major success this year it increases the lesverage for BOTH sides. Making it more likely they find an agreement. 

 

Keim who is leading the 2018 positive dance i noticed backed off from that stance some. He more or less is saying, hes not per se optimistic about 2018 but the negotiations had a better tone later in the process versus earlier so maybe they can build from that.

 

As for 2018, i agree that anything is possible. I also agree with those saying try to enjoy the season. Its 16 games, it goes fast.   However, if kirk is bothered as beat reporters are saying about the team low balling him and not believing in him. The team doubling down on that with another prove it to me again drill  -i doubt fosters good will with kirk let alone increase the odds for a deal, especially with free agency then being potentially a stones throw away.

 

The more i think about it, i think what happens is no 2018 long term contract.  If u look at it from kirks angle or the front offices angle everything that didnt make it work in 2017 at least by how its been told, is even tougher to come together in 2018. That is: kirks leverage, what the team is wiling to pay, kirk feeling valued. 

 

 The more i stew on it, the more i think bruce goes for the franchise tag.  Bruce said this year its a viable option for next year. Sounds crazy to pay a qb that much but my gut is he would do it, even if partly motivated not to hand kirk over to kyle.

 

 

 

[XtremeFan55]

30 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Just go now then. I don't want to hear this kind of nonsense out of this fanbase. If you can honestly say that you could switch allegiances then you were never a proper fan in the first place.

 

Everyone's moaning like if we don't sign Kirk now, there's zero chance of retaining him next year (which there is). And in that event, we'd never have a chance of playing well again (which there is). It's all so childish. Grow up. 

Do me a favor.  Be sure to turn off the lights and lock the doors when you finally leave since you seem to be the last of the diehard fans.  I have been religiously following the Redskins since 1970 when Edward Bennett Williams hired Bruce's dad to coach the team and he brought half of the Rams defense with him.  I was at Bobby Beathard's house on Fox Mill Road one month after being hired by Jack Kent Cooke and listened to his appraisal of those old Ramskins plus Bob McDole that he said had to go before they were let go.  I sat right next to Dan Snyder when Gibbs came back to coach for the second time sitting at the table with Brit Hume with Snyder 3 feet from me at the Tyson's Marriot dinner.  I watched Beathard and Dick Daniels jog every morning on South Lakes Drive.  I had Jon Jansen actually knock on my door the year he tore his achilles tendon and offered to buy my house which wasn't for sale but I  did get to talk to him for an hour in my living room. I had Marty Schottenheimer look at the house next door and he was almost my neighbor.  You don't come much more diehard than me and when I start giving up and looking at another team, you know its bad and I have had enough.  Enjoy next year because it might be the last time in the next decade...if ever...that the Redskins will come close to sniffing a championship.  IMO.

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

And we wont if we keep dumping that much into one position. 

 

Maybe by next year we will.

 

Then maybe the FO should put out a market value offer. It's all on them. Next year the market value will be closer to 30 million. Because we have idiots running the show.

[theTruthTeller]

2 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

No team is going to trade for Kirk now, imo (talking serious/legit offers - not 4th round picks, etc.).  Why would they give up anything for a player that will most likely be transition tagged in 2018 where they can make offers?  One might say, because we could match said offer and they miss out, which is true, but I'd imagine that what they are willing to offer after the 4pm deadline isn't going to be worth us pulling off a trade for.  

 

I'm not for this, get something/anything for him now by trading him philosophy.  As far as the money goes, I could really care less if the Skins are paying more than they have to, it's not my money and the salary cap keeps going up anyhow.  I said it last season that it wouldn't surprise me if Kirk didn't sign long term again this off-season and played under the tag.  Which is what appears to be happening.  He is maximizing his earnings.

 

 

I agree that no team is going to give up a lot, but I can see either Cleveland or SF making a deal so that they aren't part of a open market in 2018.  Kirk's BFF coaches in SF and his roots are in the midwest, so I can see each team having a reason to worry about their chances in 2018.  So the Skins end up getting a bad QB, a third round pick and $24M in cap space they can roll over to next year at the cost of notching another 9-7 season.

[PortisBetts]

I cannot wait to see all the spin on this after 4pm. Because really, if you watch the Redskins for football, you are missing 75% of the story. 

[Tay]

The only way I see a trade happening is if a team like Cleveland, who could match any offer SF makes, wants to control the rights to match.

 

I honestly think the only way we would entertain a trade is if the season looks like crap from the start.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Just now, PortisBetts said:

I cannot wait to see all the spin on this after 4pm. 

 

There really isn't any spin, imo.  It's uncharted territory in the NFL right now.   Reports I'm reading are saying that Kirk is open to negotiations after this season and is fine playing under the tag.  Seems pretty cut and dry.  

[HTTRDynasty]

The low-ball guaranteed offers are so insulting.  I really do think it all comes down to reports we've been hearing for over 2 years now that Bruce Allen loves Colt McCoy and thinks he can be a full-time starter in Gruden's offense.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Pouring one out for Very Old School.  

 

[PortisBetts]

7 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

There really isn't any spin, imo.  It's uncharted territory in the NFL right now.   Reports I'm reading are saying that Kirk is open to negotiations after this season and is fine playing under the tag.  Seems pretty cut and dry.  

Come on now. I know you cannot be naive enough to believe that anything to do with the Redskins regarding business (because it very rarely revolves around football) is cut and dry. Its like watching Sean Spicer. 

[ExoDus84]

This front office is incompetent as ****.

 

Your options were either sign him now, since the price is only going to get MORE expensive next season, trade him, or sit around for a year holding your dick in your hands. They ran out of time to sign him this year since they apparently kept lowballing him, and they don't seem to have been trying to work out a worthwhile trade to get something in return. That leaves option C; dick in the hand. We now will have a lame duck QB, who almost certainly will sign elsewhere next season, and leave us starting over from scratch again. If they weren't willing to give him $24-25M per year this offseason, they sure has hell won't be willing to give him the $26-27M per he'll probably get in free agency next year.

 

Unreal man.

[Reaper Skins]

Bruce's idiocy is maddening.  You got lucky and won a million dollars with a 4th round lottery ticket.  

 

And instead of cashing in, his solution is to spend the whole million continuing to play the lottery hoping for another win.

[PortisBetts]

1 minute ago, Reaper Skins said:

Bruce's idiocy is maddening.  You got lucky and won a million dollars with a 4th round lottery ticket.  

 

And instead of cashing in, his solution is to spend the whole million on buying more lottery tickets.

He didn't buy more lottery tickets. He bought a million dollars worth of fancy new cars that will be a steal for someone else at half the price when he goes to resell it. Actually, he will overextend himself, put himself on loans, and then the banks will just take the brand new cars and he ends up with nothing. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Just now, PortisBetts said:

Come on now. I know you cannot be naive enough to believe that anything to do with the Redskins regarding business (because it very rarely revolves around football) is cut and dry. 

 

I'm saying that at this point, it's cut and dry on the outcome, being no LTD, he plays under the tag.  

 

I also don't think there is really any spin they can put on it as that would require actual details of what was offered, what Kirk wanted and why they weren't willing to meet it now and wait, doubt they release those details (though I could be wrong).  They have kept everything in-house thus far, both sides, for the most part.  

 

I expect them to say something like, "we couldn't reach an agreement, Kirk will play under the tag and we will worry about negotiating a LTD after the upcoming season."  Which really isn't spin.   

[PortisBetts]

Just now, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

I'm saying that at this point, it's cut and dry on the outcome, being no LTD, he plays under the tag.  

 

I also don't think there is really any spin they can put on it as that would require actual details of what was offered, what Kirk wanted and why they weren't willing to meet it now and wait, doubt they release those details (though I could be wrong).  They have kept everything in-house thus far, both sides, for the most part.  

 

I expect them to say something like, "we couldn't reach an agreement, Kirk will play under the tag and we will worry about negotiating a LTD after the upcoming season."  Which really isn't spin.   

True and agree with that.

 

They are still going to come up with a story to try and keep the fans happy becasue they certainly won't be after the outcome of this. 

[Peregrine]

10 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

There really isn't any spin, imo.  It's uncharted territory in the NFL right now.   Reports I'm reading are saying that Kirk is open to negotiations after this season and is fine playing under the tag.  Seems pretty cut and dry.  

Its true, its uncharted territory because no NFL team in history has ever screwed up this badly.  

 

Reports I was reading 4 months ago were that Bruce said it would be done, and it was simple.  But he lied then didnt he?  So its beyond foolish to then believe a liar a 5th, 6th, and 7th time.  Amazing what some people will justify.

[theTruthTeller]

When I first read the Michael Lombardi article on Bruce thinking he's smarter than anyone else, I was a little surprised because you seldom see a former exec taking shots at another exec. Maybe what he said was bad blood, but it's sure playing out. 

[XtremeFan55]

I keep going back to remembering the summer after both RG3 and Cousins were drafted.  Back when RG3 was tweeting his "Know your why" slogans.  Garcon was being interviewed and he was gushing about Cousins...not RG3.  I remember Garcon saying that Cousins brain was like a computer....he just knew the plays and how to react to defenses.  Then we wasted all these years trying to make a silk purse put of a sow ear.  SMH...

[skins island connection]

15 hours ago, kleese said:

 

Now this is going just way too far. Cousins played well enough to get us to the NFCC game? Did you see what Rodgers had to do to get there last year? We are talking flawless playoff performance on the road (as his defense was melting down) including an absolutely insanely ridiculous play/throw to set up the game winning FG. 

 

The championship QBs last year were Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben, and Ryan. Three HOF'ers two of which are in the convo for greatest of all time. And Ryan is probably well on his way to Canton as well. 

 

I am not arguing the contract stuff here but to say KC would have had us in a Champ game is to say he's on that level. And he's not. 

 

  I get where you're coming from, But you gotta admit GB doesn't have a defense worth mentioning either [ at least from what I remember ].

 

 But IF the defense was middle of the road, it would have put the offense in a much different position, not one where they're relying on Cousins to make up for their inabilities to stop anyone. The scores would have been affected, the strategies, and field positioning would all have been greatly affected had there been a defense that showed up. 

I agree that I doubt Cousins can do it by himself, but it is a team sport, and only in rare cases i.e.; Tom Brady shows up and can dictate what he wants to do.  But a decent defense can take alot of pressure off the offense and playcalling, which would likely change the game plan.

 

Thats the way I was looking at it. Not trying to be a smarty or anything, I just felt it would have been a much different scenario.

[JSSkinz]

I don't get people talking about us low balling Kirk as if we treated him disrespectfully, we offered the man $20 mil a year and based on the article I just read on NFL.com we raised that offer just over $20 mil per year.  Since when is $20 - $23 mil a year lowballing a guy who has done nothing but prove he's pretty good as long as you don't mess up his 2 or 3 step drop and make him improvise.

 

So much whining is driving me crazy, Kirk has no market or he would have got the money this year, the reason he signed the tag is that nobody else is dumb enough to bite on a contract that size for him.  Does anyone know of any offer that was made to Kirk from an opposing team in a sign and trade type situation or however they would pull off that kind of deal?  I haven't heard about one team wanting him, smoke and mirrors by the agent and by next year it won't matter what he signs because that $44 mil is already in the bank.

 

His best shot for next year is Pittsburgh when Big Ben retires but he won't get anything close to $25 mil a year from them and I don't see them even giving him $20 mil a year unless its incentive based, he'll have to give up some to play for a top notch franchise.

 

 

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

I see the Skins getting nothing in the way of compensation when Cousins leaves, absolutely nothing.  At some point perhaps 2018 or 2019 the transition tag will be more than Snyder will stomach and he'll have to let Cousins go free.  Obviously I am projecting my own thoughts and frustrations on to Cousins but if I am him I don't negotiate with another team until I am free of the tag and Snyder doesn't get bupkis, not even the right to match an offer.  After today it is scorched earth.

 

I would follow the same formula that has led him to his strong position.  Quickly sign the 2018 tag if offered, don't bother entertaining offers from other teams, use the tag price or the next years tag as the base level salary demand and punish Snyder for his reluctance to accept Cousins earlier with demands for high guarantees and use Snyder's unwillingness to lose by losing Cousins without compensation and all the humiliation that comes with it to continue the profitable process in 2019.  

 

I don't see the 2017 season as harmonious as the 2016 when both parties were more amenable to the prove it a second year process then now.  Cousins more than repeated and Snyder wouldn't pay as promised.  So if Snyder can't buy Cousins today the only way he "wins" is if Cousins fails on the field in 2017 or Snyder can arouse more animus towards Kirk.  I expect more negative news directed at Cousins this year.  Snyder may have confused Kirk's unfailing niceness for weakness and is learning a painful lesson today and we can look forward to a sour year as a result.