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Fixing the Republican Party (new material on pg 9)

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I found it too offputting  forum-wise to keep seeing the one thread there (being made for a second time, even) and no one thinking making this one should be a thing.

 

"Fixing" the dems is a bigly fine topic (which is why I made it originally, months ago, but that's ok) and  having its mate is not just about logic in service to intelligent discussion, it's also addressing what is somewhat like a family focused on attending to "fixing" the kid that's tagging buildings vs. the one who is setting fire to buildings. 

 

So how do we "fix" the GOP?

 

C'mon Buzz, Popeman, Kilmer, twa, noninney, sacase, timmysmith, aredskins, zguy, jschuck, and all you other cats of conservative or indie stripe (and the lefties too of course). Let's set the table.

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The GOP is beyond repair.  It's needs to go the way of the Dodo.  

 

I post about bout fixing the Left because I still have hope for them.  They are at least expected to be the adults in the room (yes I know that isn't fair.  Reality rarely is.)

 

American politics is broken beyond repair though.  I have pretty much lost all hope.

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You can't fix what's happening at the grassroots level. 

 

I think the Republicans have the opposite problem of Democrats. They have a highly engaged voter base that got exactly what it wanted out of a huge pool of wildly different candidates.

 

Changing the messaging of the party is tough when the people actively supporting the party are very very good at demanding exactly what they want.

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14 minutes ago, MEANDWARF said:

Is someone going to post a "Fixing The Independents" thread next?:D

Or better yet, a "What the hell is a Libertarian?" thread.

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If I could pick one, big, thing, for The Right?  

 

Repudiate the racists.  

 

but I think that's more a case of "What I'd like to see", as opposed to "a political strategy that I think would work".  Fact is, at least catering to racism and bigotry, works.  There's a whole lot of people who have those feelings.  (Heck, I have those feelings, to some extent.)  And all the last 50 years has done, is make them cling to them even more desperately.  

 

Something that might be easier to do?  

 

Focus on the economy.  And I mean the economy, not "big corporations and the investment class".  

 

What bugs me about the current GOP almost as much as openly catering to the bigots, is the way that it seems like a fundamental part of their belief system, is the belief that one of the biggest problems in America is that the bottom 50% of the income scale have it too good, and we need the government to actively work to make it worse.  

 

 


 

Some integrity would be nice, too.  I'm talking about things like recognizing that facts actually do exist, and that if the facts don;t agree with your policies, then you should work to change the policy, not the facts.  

 

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Hey, how about fixing society first.  We can talk about the parties all we want but it doesn't matter.  It's a reflection of us.  They're just a symptom of a larger issue.

 

Both sides of the aisle, btw.  It's funny reading on here how liberals think the GOP is the #1 problem with 'murica.

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As we sit, I think a good beginning premise is that either side's enjoying any long-running dominance is bad for the nation as a whole.

 

And as we sit, the idea that our diversity is going to ever be shoehorned into some more homogeneous mass suitable to the liking of many trump voters is DOA.

 

It's not going to happen, and a lot of upset conservative straight xtian caucasian people who seem to have a lot of serious issues with gays/trans/immigrants/non-whites/non-Christians are unlikely to ever accept that, so where does the gop go with all that, given that trump won and the r's end up with control of it all under these conditions?

 

More than a few of the current r's in congress are said to be torn between having their dreams of power come true while being uncomfy with a lot of the trumpstuff they're supporting, but few things in washington are more fragile than integrity to principle.

 

And a nation this size and of this scope is never going back to a "small" federal government. What it really needs to be, of course, is more honest, efficient, competent and fair. BTW, there's precious little evidence that "state/local gov" has ever given any meaningful or predictably greater assurance of inherent intelligence/justice/fairness/competency in governance than "fed gov." 

 

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As a former registered republican and relating to the party in my younger years (I switched to independent after the Bill/Monica debacle), I don't identify with this party anymore. The hope, acceptance, and inspiration presented by Reagan quickly deteriorated throughout the 90s. Obviously, the party latched onto the religious right and corporate interests. In hindsight, the busting up of unions and deficit spending took off during the Reagan years and as a society we didn't realize the setbacks of those initiatives until many years later. If the party would spew less negative views about dems and became more tolerant of points of view that challenge their thoughts, like acknowledge facts, the party would  be better served long term. If the party would accept an increased minimum wage and work towards actually finding meaningful ways to lower insurance costs, they would attract many more moderate democrats. I know many people where I live that don't like Trump, and the media for that matter. They only voted for Trump because of abortion and the 2nd amendment. Less of a focus on social issues would help the party embrace others.

 

With all of this said, what is really wrong with the party at this point in time? I can't think of anything. They control the House and Senate. Win the electoral college without a majority of the popular vote. Those in charge of the party have done a great job engineering and maximizing their influence on policy. The party is strong everywhere but the two coasts and major metropolitan areas. They do a great job of engaging the voting base. However, they could do a better job of enticing more college educated folks. This is evident from information presented in the Data Download segment on Meet the Press this past Sunday. However, that would require the voting base to accept actual facts...

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Put Kasich in charge of everything except have someone stand behind him and kick him every time he gets a little squirrely on social issues.

 

Guy (mostly) gets it.

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It depends on who wants it fixed, because at the moment, those who identify as republican are pretty happy with the way things are. They see no problems within their own ideology, or the people currently administrating it. All their problems come from lying democrats who will do anything to destroy this country, take their money, take their guns,  kill god, make everyone's sons gay and everyone's daughters date black guys.

 

by and large they want God involved with everything, but only the white christian god. They want constitution preserved, except that they don't, they are mostly concerned with the one amendment that can't get changed no matter who's in office. They want law and order except when it comes to trump, who the lying media  should just leave alone upon threat of getting curb stomped by congressional candidates and bench press secretaries.

 

But, just for sake of giggles, let's pretend that the base isn't boiled down to what it is, and they want change.
 

Step 1. Turn off Fox news, turn off the conservative radio. Balance it out. The average con voter needs to get their head out of the bubble.
  

Step 2. Actually READ the Constitution, or rent the video. Learn why almost none of your social agenda fits with it. 
 

Step 3. Recognize that a SOCIAL AGENDA flies directly opposite to "Limited government" which is one of the strongest and longest standing planks in the Right platform. Recognize that America is more than you and those just like you, and you legislating on so-called "moral grounds" against sexuality or religion is doing the exact thing you swear is the worst thing about government ..  
 

Step 4. Enough with the science denial. Science is your friend, not the boogieman to fear. Science is what made this country a superpower. It is what drives everything that makes our nation great.. it drives capitalism, it creates jobs, it betters our lives. Enough with politicizing it.

Step 5 turn off the country music. this won't really matter to your politics, but It ****ing sucks, and for your own good, turn that junk off.

 

If people can do those things, then they'll be able to make more informed decisions, and hopefully more thoughtful ones. And, if they can do that they can force the GOP to turn up better candidates. The rank and file are who needs to change the party, and to do that they have to be willing to threaten the party. And right now they are no threat, and the GOP knows they can do literally anything and be cheered for it.

 

~Bang

 

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2 hours ago, CrypticVillain said:

Or better yet, a "What the hell is a Libertarian?" thread.

 

Their like vegans only snootier. :)

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It is very difficult for the winning side to engage in self-reflection. Right now, the Republican side is winning. That aside, I'd say the biggest thing the Republicans need to do is probably the biggest thing the Democrats need to do which is stop with the sportsification of politics. It's not about winning or losing. It's about work and making the country better. The other thing is to stop deifying their parties and treat them as holy objects that can't be criticized or must be wholly embraced no matter what actions certain members of its congregation takes.

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2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Hey, how about fixing society first.  We can talk about the parties all we want but it doesn't matter.  It's a reflection of us.  They're just a symptom of a larger issue.

 

This is pretty much my feeling.  I just didnt say it because this thread is about the Right.  But Ive pretty mich given up on society as a whole.  You are 100% right that our representatives are a reflection of us (as a society).

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Didn't Kilmer already have a thread on this? :)

 

More diversity would help nationally , though I approve of the different factions warring for control of the GOP I wish conservatives would win for once.

It is certainly not my fathers GOP ....of course he was a Democrat.

Make it more like Texas and it'll fly.

 

Bang ya can have my country music when ya pry it from my cold,dead fingers.(except for some of this new crap)

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

This is pretty much my feeling.  I just didnt say it because this thread is about the Right.  But Ive pretty mich given up on society as a whole.  You are 100% right that our representatives are a reflection of us (as a society).

 

Yeah, I've given up on society, mostly.  Occasionally I'll see some stuff on the news that gives me some hope but by and large it's a pretty sad state of affairs.  

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@twai thought that @Kilmer17's thread was somewhat diff like my "original" was, and didn't play to the title, and i wanted to mirror that other process...i just went by memory tho instead of checking.... if kilmer or others aren't ok with it, i can close this

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2 hours ago, Bang said:

Step 5 turn off the country music. this won't really matter to your politics, but It ****ing sucks, and for your own good, turn that junk off.

 

 

Damn Bang yer onna roll today...........

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4 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Hey, how about fixing society first.  We can talk about the parties all we want but it doesn't matter.  It's a reflection of us.  They're just a symptom of a larger issue.

 

Both sides of the aisle, btw.  It's funny reading on here how liberals think the GOP is the #1 problem with 'murica.

 

Completely agree - what I'd love to see, but will never happen, is 'party' pulled out and just vote on what the people are actually saying.  Majority of Dems and Reps will only vote for party which will never get us anywhere.  Independents don't have enough pull to slide into contention otherwise.

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4 hours ago, No Excuses said:

You can't fix what's happening at the grassroots level. 

 

I think the Republicans have the opposite problem of Democrats. They have a highly engaged voter base that got exactly what it wanted out of a huge pool of wildly different candidates.

 

Changing the messaging of the party is tough when the people actively supporting the party are very very good at demanding exactly what they want.

 

You're not wrong.  But leaders still lead.  And I think the GoP is exceptional in the ease with which their base is led.  I see polling frequently quoted about how 30% of Democrats approved of Obama using direct military force in Syria, 29% approve of Trump doing it.  30% of Republicans approved of Obama doing it, and now over 80% of them approve of Trump doing it.  It's an example of how the party base can be led to their positions.  I think everyone can be led by the leaders of their in-groups, but the reality is conservative voters are more easily influenced than liberals.

 

The Right has been poorly led for a long time.  They're led by propaganda ministers in the conservative mediascape.  The GoP needs leaders who won't sell out truth, consistency, and public good for cheap votes and the support of the scumbags on their websites and radio and TV programs.  I don't know how you find a whole party full of leaders with the strength to do that though.  These propaganda ministers are unbelievably powerful.

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1) Strict anti lobbying rules 

2) Setting campaign spending limits

3) Getting god to do an interview with Sean Hannity where he finally admits he doesn't actually exist. 

Edited by RedskinsMayne
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2 minutes ago, RedskinsMayne said:

 

3) Getting god to do an interview with Sean Hannity where he finally admits he doesn't actually exist. 

That'd be pretty awesome if Hannity did an interview with God concluding with God saying that Hannity doesn't exist followed by a poof and permanent disappearance of the FOX News Host.

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7 minutes ago, Burgold said:

That'd be pretty awesome if Hannity did an interview with God concluding with God saying that Hannity doesn't exist followed by a poof and permanent disappearance of the FOX News Host.

 

Dont count it off as impossible. It's already happened, twice.

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yeah, I've given up on society, mostly.  Occasionally I'll see some stuff on the news that gives me some hope but by and large it's a pretty sad state of affairs.  

 

 

Society is generally awesome and inspiring. It's sharp edges that cut the most.

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