The Sewer That Is The GOP: With All The White Supremacists, Conspiracy Nutters, And Other Malicious Whacko Subgroups, How Does It Get Fixed?

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

I used to have long drawn out discussions here..  but truly in the last couple of years, most of the GOPers aren't worth discussing this with. as the base gets more and more rapidly boiled down .. those that are left are beyond trying to reason. The insanity is quickly becoming more and more exposed.

 

~Bang

 

I haven't seen much of a worthy defense of the current GOP or the Administration around here at all. And I would like to, from an intellectual standpoint, to challenge my assumptions.  Instead we have twa and his usually lazy devil's-advocate posts, and the occasional hit and run nonsense by that one guy who spreads a towel on the floor, spews the latest Hannity bleatings, then leaves. And zoony's heart just isn't in it.  So we're left in this bubble. 

 

Maybe the problem is how do you defend the indefensible?  Nobody seems willing to try.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Dan T.

[Llevron]

15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

You're talking about one guy vs when I came in here the conversation was about the entire party and everyone who associates with it.  That's going too far, but I'll be back to explain why later.  That's not the first time that individual tried to get on the ballot, he's been even kicked off before.

 

Oh yea im totally talking about this one guy. I agree with you otherwise I have zero context on the rest of your conversation. Dont worry I wasn't even really arguing with you or anything I just assumed you didnt know about this one guy in particular so I was sharing thats all. 

[Predicto]

In case people are new to the Tailgate, I just want to point out that Bang is a long time moderate Republican who has become disgusted by what his former party has become.  So is Larry, for that matter.  And tshile.  

 

These are not Berkeley Trotskyites who dream of the proletariat rising up and destroying the bourgeoisie.  They are reasonable conservatives who didn't drink the Kool-Aid as their party swirled down the toilet from Newt and Rush to Trump and Bannon.  

[tshile]

6 hours ago, twa said:

if things were very bad they would have removed him already.

They are very bad

[thinwhiteduke]

Get rid of all parties. They are useless

[Bang]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

 

I haven't seen much of a worthy defense of the current GOP or the Administration around here at all. And I would like to, from an intellectual standpoint, to challenge my assumptions.  Instead we have twa and his usually lazy devil's-advocate posts, and the occasional hit and run nonsense by that one guy who spreads a towel on the floor, spews the latest Hannity bleatings, then leaves. And zoony's heart just isn't in it.  So we're left in this bubble. 

 

Maybe the problem is how do you defend the indefensible?  Nobody seems willing to try.

I think you've found your answer..  there isn't any defense left of many of the platform unless you believe in it. People who see through it have abandoned it. 

I know a lot of folks here would be shocked to learn that the only party i have ever belonged to is the republican party. In today's America, if you aren't mouth frothing crazy right, you're a liberal.  I think there's a large swath of us out here who are not necessarily democrats, but cannot justify being republicans either. 

Democrats at the moment are the only 'side' who is presenting any sanity.

 

~Bang

6 minutes ago, thinwhiteduke said:

Get rid of all parties. They are useless

You can't get rid of a party.

A party is nothing but people. And the people who support the party are all that give it any power at all. the parties look at the rolls and know they can count on these votes from their members pretty much even if they ran a Nazi. (Which the GOP is currently doing, )

 

Now, if people would give up their affiliations and register as 'unaffiliated' and make politicians earn their votes, we could. But too many of us are too willing to give up that power willingly, and be led to whatever slaughter their pre-determined vote leads.

 

Do not declare for a party. Declare Unaffiliated.

That is how you 'get rid' of a party.

 

~Bang

[Bozo the kKklown]

The party is irredeemable and has to go.

[thinwhiteduke]

11 minutes ago, Bang said:

I think you've found your answer..  there isn't any defense left of many of the platform unless you believe in it. People who see through it have abandoned it. 

I know a lot of folks here would be shocked to learn that the only party i have ever belonged to is the republican party. In today's America, if you aren't mouth frothing crazy right, you're a liberal.  I think there's a large swath of us out here who are not necessarily democrats, but cannot justify being republicans either. 

Democrats at the moment are the only 'side' who is presenting any sanity.

 

~Bang

You can't get rid of a party.

A party is nothing but people. And the people who support the party are all that give it any power at all. the parties look at the rolls and know they can count on these votes from their members pretty much even if they ran a Nazi. (Which the GOP is currently doing, )

 

Now, if people would give up their affiliations and register as 'unaffiliated' and make politicians earn their votes, we could. But too many of us are too willing to give up that power willingly, and be led to whatever slaughter their pre-determined vote leads.

 

Do not declare for a party. Declare Unaffiliated.

That is how you 'get rid' of a party.

 

~Bang

Everything you describe  is the lie they told you. None of those factors exist. They decide who wins elections. They gave you the illusion of choice and influenced you to pick one  side or the other. Calling yourself  repub or Dem. Is as useless  as saying.....well, saying you like chocolate or strawberry would have much more value and meaning. Your vote never counted.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 hours ago, Predicto said:

 

 

These are not Berkeley Trotskyites who dream of the proletariat rising up and destroying the bourgeoisie.  They are reasonable conservatives who didn't drink the Kool-Aid as their party swirled down the toilet from Newt and Rush to Trump and Bannon.  

 

The Berkeley Trotskyites would be myself, Predicto and Dan T (among others).  

Carry on.  

[Bang]

52 minutes ago, thinwhiteduke said:

Everything you describe  is the lie they told you. None of those factors exist. They decide who wins elections. They gave you the illusion of choice and influenced you to pick one  side or the other. Calling yourself  repub or Dem. Is as useless  as saying.....well, saying you like chocolate or strawberry would have much more value and meaning. Your vote never counted.

 

 

Well, have a nice afternoon.

 

~Bang

[Dan T.]

I've only been to Berkeley once.  Is that all it takes?

[PleaseBlitz]

1 minute ago, Dan T. said:

I've only been to Berkeley once.  Is that all it takes?

 

It's a state of mind.  

[Dan T.]

3 hours ago, Dan T. said:

 

I haven't seen much of a worthy defense of the current GOP or the Administration around here at all. And I would like to, from an intellectual standpoint, to challenge my assumptions.  Instead we have twa and his usually lazy devil's-advocate posts, and the occasional hit and run nonsense by that one guy who spreads a towel on the floor, spews the latest Hannity bleatings, then leaves. And zoony's heart just isn't in it.  So we're left in this bubble. 

 

Maybe the problem is how do you defend the indefensible?  Nobody seems willing to try.

 

 

Dot dot dot.

 

1 hour ago, thinwhiteduke said:

Get rid of all parties. They are useless

 

 

Oh yeah, and that guy.

[LD0506]

1 hour ago, thinwhiteduke said:

Everything you describe  is the lie they told you. None of those factors exist. They decide who wins elections. They gave you the illusion of choice and influenced you to pick one  side or the other. Calling yourself  repub or Dem. Is as useless  as saying.....well, saying you like chocolate or strawberry would have much more value and meaning. Your vote never counted.

 

I applaud your sentiment and hope your message can reach more of your brethren. I fully support nutty paranoid people being disappointed, disaffected and opting out. Carry on young man!

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I'm going to quote myself from another thread. If anyone is entertaining the idea of engaging the loon who just popped up in this thread, know that there is only one right way to do so...

 

On 2/10/2018 at 3:07 PM, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

It’s the only decent and kind thing to do. To love someone, is to confront them with their own stupidity and worthlessness.

 

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, thinwhiteduke said:

Everything you describe  is the lie they told you. None of those factors exist. They decide who wins elections. They gave you the illusion of choice and influenced you to pick one  side or the other. Calling yourself  repub or Dem. Is as useless  as saying.....well, saying you like chocolate or strawberry would have much more value and meaning. Your vote never counted.

 

 

Clearly you didn't even ****ing read his post.  You know, where he suggests abandoning the parties and declaring unaffiliated? Almost the position you take? 

 

You might get a better reception around here if your posts didn't come across as condescending screeds.  .

Edited February 13, 2018 by Dan T.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

Clearly you didn't even ****ing read his post.  You know, where he suggests abandoning the parties and declaring unaffiliated? Almost the position you take? 

 

You might get a better reception around here if your posts didn't come across as condescending screeds.  .

You're wasting your time. There is no chance of redeeming this individual. Total lost cause.

[Renegade7]

11 hours ago, Bang said:

Pretending they are not on that path is ignorance. Remember the Nazis didn't get "holocaust bad" until the very end. TYhey had about 20 years of ever increasing horrors until they ultimately went all out. 

That's fair to keep an eye out, but let's also keep in mind that as early as 1920 the Nazi party banned non-aryan members.  We're nowhere near that, and it'd be political suicide for the GOP to go in that direction at any point in the future.  I'm not going to deny the dog whistling, but the Arthur Jones thing is being overblown here.  He's getting vehemently condemned by republicans in his state and at national level in every article I've pulled up about this; they consider him a fringe candidate that keeps trying in a deep blue district just for notoriety.  

 

I'm not going to deny how many republicans are strongly behind Trump because of his anti-immigrant policies and others his lax attitude towards actual racism in this country (his response to Charlottesvile and acting like he didn't know who David Duke was pathetic).  But are we really heading towards the point where half the country would support some kind of Kristallnacht type event?  

 

I'm more concerned about the fascism aspect in general of this whole situation being lead by Trump, but Republican leaders have already made clear that making a move like getting rid of Muller would be a death wish.  If anything this is a wake up call that the GOP has to do a better job of vetting candidates before they end up making themselves targets that force the entire party to have to play defense (probably the first on topic thing I've said in this thread).  I want to see how the GOP fairs in the 2018 and 2020 election before further commenting on whether they will double-down on the nationalist rhetoric and policy making that Trump has brought to the White House.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

If anything this is a wake up call that the GOP has to do a better job of vetting candidates before they end up making themselves targets that force the entire party to have to play defense (probably the first on topic thing I've said in this thread).  I want to see how the GOP fairs in the 2018 and 2020 election before further commenting on whether they will double-down on the nationalist rhetoric and policy making that Trump has brought to the White House.  

I was hoping Trump winning the nomination would be a wake-up call. It hasn't been. Not at all. They've gotten worse.

 

There is no Republican Party anymore. It's dead. Annihilated. Replaced by a **** show circus.

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I was hoping Trump winning the nomination would be a wake-up call. It hasn't been. Not at all. They've gotten worse.

 

There is no Republican Party anymore. It's dead. Annihilated. Replaced by a **** show circus.

I don't blame you for feeling that way, not at all.  It may sound crazy me saying this, but I believe we're better off as a country with a respectable conservative party to counter-balance the liberal one.  Whatever that party is doesn't need to be the current GOP.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

40 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

It may sound crazy me saying this, but I believe we're better off as a country with a respectable conservative party to counter-balance the liberal one.  Whatever that party is doesn't need to be the current GOP.

Doesn't sound crazy at all. Couldn't agree more.

[twa]

Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Doesn't sound crazy at all. Couldn't agree more.

 

Maybe if ya'll joined in voting Rep we could change it? 

 

excluding you Trump primary voters.

[thinwhiteduke]

5 hours ago, Dan T. said:

 

 

Clearly you didn't even ****ing read his post.  You know, where he suggests abandoning the parties and declaring unaffiliated? Almost the position you take? 

 

You might get a better reception around here if your posts didn't come across as condescending screeds.  .

Nothing I said  was personal towards anyone. I said nothing condescending to anyone. It was a simple remark. 

5 hours ago, LD0506 said:

 

I applaud your sentiment and hope your message can reach more of your brethren. I fully support nutty paranoid people being disappointed, disaffected and opting out. Carry on young man!

You can't prove nuttyness or paranoia of any kind. It's simply a perspective you don't understand.

 

You have absolutely no way of proving your vote counts.

[thinwhiteduke]

5 hours ago, Dan T. said:

 

 

Clearly you didn't even ****ing read his post.  You know, where he suggests abandoning the parties and declaring unaffiliated? Almost the position you take? 

 

You might get a better reception around here if your posts didn't come across as condescending screeds.  .

 

I did read it. It still leaned on a vote counting. My point was it doesn't matter either way.

  No where have I said anything personally insulting to anyone the last 2 days. Stop putting emotion  behind words that aren't there. 

Edited February 14, 2018 by thinwhiteduke

[tshile]

10 hours ago, Bang said:

GOPers aren't worth discussing this with. as the base gets more and more rapidly boiled down .. those that are left are beyond trying to reason

 

This aptly describes it to me.

 

The remains are almost religious or even cult like. A sentiment of being the ones that get it, that it's everyone else believing in a lie, one that requires dismissing all information that conflicts with it, is what is left.

 

How do you have a discussion when one side's starting point is: if you believe anything other than what I believe then you are following/pushing lies.