How do you feel about the Receiving corps?

[JSSkinz]

Is it time to get VD more reps, seems to be a more consistent option at TE right now.

[RandyHolt]

Any remaining high expectations between Reed and Crowder need to be lowered.  Reed's got the ongoing injury thing - perhaps his targets need to be capped in order to expect him to survive week to week.  Crowder, I am just starting to think he is who his stats say he is. Yes he had a hammy but still retained return duty throughout so I don't think it has hindered him significantly.  Jay said we need to get him more involved yesterday but ended up with only 3 catches. I guess more involved meant the jet sweep and then faking it.  Maybe both are being saved up to be healthy weapons for later in the year.

 

Meanwhile, Kirk posted another big stat line and those 2 missed out.  Look at Grant, #s to rival Pryor, and Davis to Reed.

 

 

 

[Bonez3]

Having been at the game yesterday and seeing Doctson (who I am/was big supporter of) on bench snap after snap in redzone, I'm starting to get regretful about giving the Texans Will Fuller V.

[Wildbunny]

30 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Any remaining high expectations between Reed and Crowder need to be lowered.  Reed's got the ongoing injury thing - perhaps his targets need to be capped in order to expect him to survive week to week.  Crowder, I am just starting to think he is who his stats say he is. Yes he had a hammy but still retained return duty throughout so I don't think it has hindered him significantly.  Jay said we need to get him more involved yesterday but ended up with only 3 catches. I guess more involved meant the jet sweep and then faking it.  Maybe both are being saved up to be healthy weapons for later in the year.

 

Meanwhile, Kirk posted another big stat line and those 2 missed out.  Look at Grant, #s to rival Pryor, and Davis to Reed.

 

Reed's always been hampered by injuries since he entered the league. So, that's nothing new here. Sadly.

Crowder's biggest problem is he doesn't have Garcon and DJax to get DBs away from him. Now DC are gameplanning for him, and he's having trouble with that. Pryor and Doctson where supposed to take over. But they aren't.

Davis is still as reliable as he can, considering his age.

Ryan Grant is slowly becoming an important part of our passing plays. As much hates as he gets around, kid is doing good so far. Which is a good thing for us. He made some important catches yesterday. 

 

That being said I wouldn't be surprised to see us going after some WR and TE next offseason and see Reed play somewhere else.

[RandyHolt]

Let's be honest, CT is the key to make our passing game work.

 

Chris Thompson now has more 100-yard rec games than Julio, Evans, Thomas, Jordy, Amari, Dez, Pryor, Crowder, Doctson, and Grant.

 

Combined. 

 

 

Let that sink in.  No, not that coke ad.  Kudos to Chris and a monster season thus far. I thought it would be Crowder becoming Kirk's go to guy. Maybe CT should line up in the slot as a curve ball to defenses.

 

[skinny21]

Generally speaking, I trust Kirk to go through his reads and find the open receiver.  Because of that, I'd prefer to go with consistency at the receiver spot versus potential... which means I think Grant should see the field more.  If we weren't in such a poor situation defensively, I'd call up Harris for this same reason.  Let Cousins target the short and intermediate part of the field with Pryor in on some plays to 1) clear out defenders for both the run and pass, and to take the occasional shot to.  I would have Grant, Doctson, Davis and Crowder (now that he's healthy) the majority of the time with Paul, Reed and Pryor coming in situationally.  Before this week (due to Crowder's lack of burst), I think I'd have put Grant in the slot and Quick in Pryor's spot.  We need (healthy) receivers at the right spot at the right time who are also willing blockers.  We don't necessarily need a clear cut #1 and #2 to keep the chains moving.  

 

I'd also identify man vs zone and (generally) have our poorer blockers running downfield on run plays vs man, and audible out of runs when facing zone.  Let Kirk continue to occasionally use his legs on pass plays vs man.  

 

That's super simplistic of course (and I'll be the first to tell you I don't know ****), but we need to be highly conscious of our personnel and what their strengths/weaknesses are.  Just lining 'em up and running what we want is having mixed results.  

 

 

[NoCalMike]

The biggest issue I see right now with the WR's but also offense overall is that we don't have that ONE GUY that defense have to plan to always make sure is accounted for.  I suppose you can make the case that Thompson is turning into that guy, but his snap count still has to be monitored due to his size.

 

Last year even when D-Jax wasn't doing much production-wise, he still always had to be given extra attention because of his skill set.  Jordan Reed, when 100% healthy can be that guy but he is so rarely ever playing at 100% and tends to disappear from games because of it.

 

Right now we have an offense full of "just guys" partly due to their development/skills, partly due to injury(s).

 

We lack the "cause & effect" aspect, what I mean by that is something such as "because D-Jax required a safety over the top, Crowder was always left one on one in the slot"   

 

We don't have a WR or TE right now who can truly takeover a game.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Our receivers suck outside of Crowder but they at least have big play ability. 

 

We don't need a stud WR. If Doctson or Pryor could at least get to league average week to week, we'd be fine 

 

you don't need OBJ or Julio to win in the NFL 

[Est.1974]

Same as at RB, we need to add an upgrade in the offseason. 

[RandyHolt]

54 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Our receivers suck outside of Crowder but they at least have big play ability. 

 

We don't need a stud WR. If Doctson or Pryor could at least get to league average week to week, we'd be fine 

 

you don't need OBJ or Julio to win in the NFL 

 

Suck.... Crowder may be the least productive of them all YTD, and we really don't see that big play ability from him.

 

Mark me down for thinking it's a mistake to assume he is 100% healthy. And that I am not sold that the 10 straight meh games are because of injury.   He like CT is likely not going to get a heavy workload. The modern day waterbug without managed snaps is at risk of taking a beating.

 

Jay wanted to get him more involved. That jet sweep was great but then he vanished again. I am thinking ~4 touches a game IS involved.

[NoCalMike]

One thing I wish we'd see more is WR screens to Crowder. He seemed to do really well with those last year. He knew how to be patient, allow his blocks to develop and then go.  Right now most if not every screen is going to Thompson.

 

You hear coaches say a lot "we need to get the ball in......*insert player here*'s hands* but it seems like only certain coaches actually find ways to do it.

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

We don't have a WR or TE right now who can truly takeover a game.

1

 

I hate seeing this, but its true, I don't know what happened to Reed, but he's not making enough of an impact to be that guy that teams fear.  Sometimes I wonder if we're trying too hard to get everyone involved, but truth is our best receiver right now is CT, and that can't happen.  I'd let Pryor go at the end of the season at this rate, experiment is blowing up in our face.

[Unbias]

On 10/17/2017 at 7:54 AM, RandyHolt said:

Let that sink in.  No, not that coke ad.  Kudos to Chris and a monster season thus far. I thought it would be Crowder becoming Kirk's go to guy. Maybe CT should line up in the slot as a curve ball to defenses.

 

 

Why can't CT Become a Brian Westbrook type RB for Washington? At the combine he was 5'7, 192. let's say he's more along the lines of ~200 lbs now. When Westbrook came out of Villanova he was 5'8, 200 lbs. 

 

Westbrook only cracked 200 carries in a season 3 times in what was a good NFL career. Why can't Thompson be that guy who's a constant passing down mismatch who is very difficult to contain in the open field? 

[NoCalMike]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I hate seeing this, but its true, I don't know what happened to Reed, but he's not making enough of an impact to be that guy that teams fear.  Sometimes I wonder if we're trying too hard to get everyone involved, but truth is our best receiver right now is CT, and that can't happen.  I'd let Pryor go at the end of the season at this rate, experiment is blowing up in our face.

 

Yeah, at this rate Reed is the next Jimmy Graham.  Showed a ton of talent early in his career but after the first few jarring hits, his body just decided it wasn't made for the sport of football.  He will still have some impact on occasions, but he is fast becoming a guy you can't really rely on.  It's a shame.  It's like Fred Davis all over again (obviously for different reasons).

 

I still think the current failure is not coming up with ways to get Crowder involved. He was basically Chris Thompson before Chris Thompson emerged. He was running all sorts of gadget plays last season. He lined up everywhere, he ran everything.  I know not having D-Jax will hurt his production in the slot itself, but there's gotta be other ways to get the ball in the hands of a guy who can make defenders miss and turn short passes into long gains.

[RandyHolt]

"We need to get the ball to" always seems about the first drive of the game, and then it's back to status quo.  It's forced and predictable at this point. I am surprised DCs aren't all over it.

[Unbias]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

We don't have a WR or TE right now who can truly takeover a game.

 

Those guys don't come along very often and when they do they don't come cheap. I think what you really want is a QB who makes ordinary guys look better than they really are. Is Jordy Nelson really a top 3 WR or does Rodgers make him look great? Would Gronk be the same meathead weapon if playing for the Jets or Browns? I doubt it.

[Unbias]

After 6 games here's my thoughts: 

 

Pryor - He's playing Garcon role of the underneath route runner, which I think is a very hard transition for him. He's only a few years removed from being a QB. Then again, if the Skins want to see what he has for a contract extension this is probably the best way to test what his ceiling looks like. 

 

Doctson - He's essentially a rookie who's going through his rookie learning curve. Sure sitting out almost a full season can give him some mental reps, but it's still a poor substitute for the real thing. If judging him as someone in his rookie season I think he's showing some flashes, which is all you should expect. 

 

Crowder - Really underperformed, but he hasn't been healthy, but for a team that needs someone to be a leader he's not stepping up. 

 

Grant - Nice surprise. The problem is that the niche that he's carving out it taking away from Crowder. Having 2 really good slot receivers doesn't really help you win on the outside. 

 

Reed - It could be the injuries he came into the season with or maybe years of injuries reducing his overall effectiveness. The team needs more from him. Next year his cap number is $10.3M and the team can get $4.9M of that back from cutting or trading him. I'm not necessarily an advocate of that, but Vernon Davis at 33 years old is outperforming him. Davis also has a cap number of $5.3M in 2018 and 6.3M in 2019. Does it make sense to allocate over $15M to the TE position and could Niles Paul replace Reed's production if given the opportunity? I'm sure it will be talked about this offseason. 

 

Davis - Really been a pleasant surprise. He's a very productive #2 TE who can give you starting production in a pinch.

[RandyHolt]

XM Fantasy guy this afternoon said to prepare for CT to come back to earth. 

 

He is on pace for 1600+ and 13TDs.  Sell Mortimer, sell for a kings ransom. I actually tried to trade for him today. 

 

Hopefully Crowder fills any void; stops horsing around and seizes our vacant top dog WR role.  Something tells me I should buy some cheap Grant.

[RandyHolt]

In reference to Doctson getting a limited number of snaps, Jay said he needs to be stronger in some of their personnel groups.

 

Why may we need a bonafide number 1, so that Jay can run his full playbook without substitutions all the time. We have one of the slowest offenses out there. Not that it has necessarily hurt us, but a fast pace keeps the defense on its heels.

 

It seems like all our WRs have one issue or another. It must make play calling more difficult for Jay.

 

I love the pump fake. I would like to see the pump fake to Pryor on a slant, pulling in the safety for a shot deep to our committee WR, perhaps Davis again.  Who doesn't love seeing a LB desperately chasing after him, weekly.  I feel like Davis sets these guys up by running slow on routes in which he is not likely to be target, and then BAM the after burners kick in. It's like he never left Byrd.

[beachboy757]

Although Reed is not catching many balls he is still drawing double teams especially on third down and in the red zone. So he is helping the offense out more than what it appears.

[CTskin]

1 hour ago, beachboy757 said:

Although Reed is not catching many balls he is still drawing double teams especially on third down and in the red zone. So he is helping the offense out more than what it appears.

I'm with you there. Although statistically Reed's production appears to be down, he's still effecting the defenses like he always has. The down stats are simply due to plays not being drawn up for him. As we've seen, the RBs have become much more heavily utilized in the passing game and unless our WRs start showing shades of their predecessors, I don't doubt that this will continue. That being said, Reed is still Reed and he's as healthy as he'll ever be, we need to feed him... especially vs the Eagles who he has a great track record against.

[TheShredder]

Crowder===> There has been nobody else so widley affected by the loss of the 2 WRs from last year then Crowder.

 

Hes had a hamstring linger and its cost him in multiple ways. Almost like hes thinking about it and not just playing possibly.  Hes fumbled on teams and not shown up in the passing game.

 

Hes a 3rd yr WR who benefited from the guys around him the first couple yrs.  Now hes playing lost and unexplosive.  This is the guy who needs some confidence catches early in a game plan. Get him going calls.

 

If you get the slot going, youll get the over the top shots youre looking for with the outside guys. 

 

This year its been less about scheme and more about the options.  If you cant run though, youd best have a scheme. 

[RandyHolt]

Have there been any reports that Crowder is still injured - lingering as we call it?  Or is it fan speculation, based on a lack of a breakout game this year thus far, and general knowledge than hammys can take a long time to heal.  Speed wise, he looked fine on his jet sweep to open the game. I admit I don't see much explosiveness but he is not even getting the targets needed to know for sure. Some wanted to see him out wide to find his true upside - is he even getting snaps there?  He doesn't have much competition.

 

Admittedly, the loss of DJax and Garcon puts him in the cross hairs of DCs, but stat wise his last 5 games of 2016 look exactly like his first 5 in 2017 including the lack of big plays. Before 2017, he seems like he has a big game once every 4 games, but a big gain weekly.

 

Jay could be game planning away from him expecting DC's to be game planning for him.  Or Jay game plans for him, and Ds are just blanketing him. Is he getting pressed more - I have to look.  Kirk is seeing he is covered and moves on.

 

I do seem to notice Kirk being better at going through his reads this year. Like the 3rd read TD pass to Perine. Anyone else notice that? It could also be a little better pass pro #Scherff

[skinny21]

@TheShredderI think VOR (and others) are right though - without a downfield threat (well, one anywhere near as dangerous as Jackson anyway), it's making it tougher to target the middle of the field.  I'm assuming their health had played a part too, but maybe not.  I do agree that we need to make targeting him (and Reed) a priority though.  

 

Riggins the other day Day talked about Doctson not seeing the field more, that he should be in on 95% of the snaps or something.  I think there's something to that.  At some point, Gruden has to say "you know what, we just need to get him out there and up the learning curve".  Need to see if Doctson is the future at wr.  

 

It might be a different story if others were clearly outplaying him, but that's not really the case.  He's a 1st round draft pick... we ought to treat him as such.  I know it's not quite so simple, but given our pass game issues outside of Thompson/Davis, seems like the right move IMO.  

 

 

[TheShredder]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

@TheShredderI think VOR (and others) are right though - without a downfield threat (well, one anywhere near as dangerous as Jackson anyway), it's making it tougher to target the middle of the field.  I'm assuming their health had played a part too, but maybe not.  I do agree that we need to make targeting him (and Reed) a priority though.  

 

Riggins the other day Day talked about Doctson not seeing the field more, that he should be in on 95% of the snaps or something.  I think there's something to that.  At some point, Gruden has to say "you know what, we just need to get him out there and up the learning curve".  Need to see if Doctson is the future at wr.  

 

It might be a different story if others were clearly outplaying him, but that's not really the case.  He's a 1st round draft pick... we ought to treat him as such.  I know it's not quite so simple, but given our pass game issues outside of Thompson/Davis, seems like the right move IMO.  

 

 

There's plenty out recently with Gruden saying the similar sentiment. I do believe that it's been a process with these 3.  Cousins is the 3rd. I have heard Cooley say that Pryor has been running better routes and was open last game, but Cousins missed him. Also that Doctson needs increasing involvement in the plan. I'd expect with all that being said and the Philly secondary being the target, that MNF could be the game where the Skins passing game is a featured component of a greater extent then anyone has seen this year.