The McGlouaeiouandsometimesygghhggain Kool-Aid - No thanks. I'll stick to coffee.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, Major Harris said:

 

If there's a trend of it,  it matters.   If we can pull one example of a maybe,  it doesn't matter. 

 

Agreed. I just meant on a more philosophical level...

 

If McCloughan wants a team of big, physical players and Gruden wants to run a finesse offense then we have an issue. Again, I'm not stating that I know or think this is happening, but the two levels (GM and coach) need to share a philosophy or, at a minimum, the coach needs to adapt to whatever players the GM is acquiring. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

Well doen sip You apparently trashed me. Score one for  ..... trashing thingies! 

 

Hail. 

 

LOL, no trashing from me.  

 

I just respectfully disagree on the Doctson stuff.  I follow the draft like its a religion so its tough for me to miss anything.  I didn't see any 2nd round stuff about Doctson, if it was out there it would have to been very obscure let alone the mainstream opinion of scouts. I don't recall even one post draft analysis from anyone saying Doctson was a reach.   

 

If the point is early in the process did some have him in the 2nd round, yeah that I recall.  As you know early in the draft assessments are generally wildly off and always change and often dramatically.  For example, at this point in time before the draft, Aaron Donald was a late first/2nd rounder.  

 

After killing it in the combine (superseding Treadwell on key metrics), there was a lot of buzz on Doctson, that's when he seemed to take off.  I recall my own opinion moving from Treadwell to Doctson as I did more tit for tat comparisons.  There was a person who posted a really good article that compared all the WRs in the draft on key metrics, and Doctson killed it on so many measures.  The kicker for me was that even though Treadwell is the bigger more physical receiver, it was Doctson not Treadwell who excelled on contested catches.  Doctson's combination of catch radius. hands, vertical ability and speed -- make him a freak.    Here's Sports Science (who like Treadwell's physical attributes, too) talking about Doctson's measureables for those interested.  Ironically, they compare his catch radius to Dez Bryant -- that's ironically who Scot compared Doctson to.  His 10 yard shuttle time, fastest in the draft for WRs they tested.

 

 

 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

****. So this is where I have to sit down later and counter that with other guys views?

 

Didn't we have enough of that the draft? This could be a long night. 

 

Hail. 

 

*Edit* And again Cali, don't fall into the Major trap of not distinguishing what a guys talent should of had him at per those that scout for teams for a living as to what team needs where and where he went. 

 

You don't have to counter any of it. I was addressing your belief that, to quote:

 

"That's a serious matter of opinion that he was the 'best' receiver in the draft. Even more so that he was a first rounder. He was verging on the late first at best."

 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Just now, Califan007 said:

 

You don't have to counter any of it. I was addressing your belief that, to quote:

 

"That's a serious matter of opinion that he was the 'best' receiver in the draft. Even more so that he was a first rounder. He was verging on the late first at best."

 

 

 

That's good to know as that was fixing to be a long and boring night looking back. 

 

Which at the end of the holidays I SERIOUSLY don't need lol. 

 

Hail. 

[Major Harris]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Agreed. I just meant on a more philosophical level...

 

If McCloughan wants a team of big, physical players and Gruden wants to run a finesse offense then we have an issue. Again, I'm not stating that I know or think this is happening, but the two levels (GM and coach) need to share a philosophy or, at a minimum, the coach needs to adapt to whatever players the GM is acquiring. 

Agreed

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

That's good to know as that was fixing to be a long and boring night looking back. 

 

 

...Yeah, I'm not getting into whether or not he should have been viewed as a 1st round pick or the "best" WR in the draft.

 

I did, though, want to put out the stuff I put out back after the draft on the "Welcome to the team" thread. Y'all can make up your own minds lol....

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

You don't have to counter any of it. I was addressing your belief that, to quote:

 

"That's a serious matter of opinion that he was the 'best' receiver in the draft. Even more so that he was a first rounder. He was verging on the late first at best."

 

 

 

I enjoy debating GHH so all in fun.  The cool thing about this exercise is its reignited me getting fired up about Doctson.  It's been awhile since I've looked at that stuff.  Loved the pick back then.  I was at the game when he burned though the Dallas secondary and caught a deep ball and would have had a TD if Kirk didn't under throw the ball.   After that, we didn't see him again.

 

Scot told me when I met with him the one time that he had no concerns about Doctson's injury going forward.  And liked seeing this yesterday. 

 

Brian McNally ‏@bmcnally14  14h14 hours ago

Briefly caught up with #Redskins rookie WR Josh Doctson after the game. No walking boot. Says he's feeling better.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I enjoy debating GHH so all in fun.  The cool thing about this exercise is its reignited me getting fired up about Doctson.  It's been awhile since I've looked at that stuff.  Loved the pick back then.  I was at the game when he burned thought he Dallas secondary and caught a deep ball and would have had a TD if Kirk didn't under throw the ball.   After that, we didn't see him again.

 

Scot told me when I met with him the one time that he had no concerns about Doctson's injury going forward.  And liked seeing this yesterday. 

 

Brian McNally ‏@bmcnally14  14h14 hours ago

Briefly caught up with #Redskins rookie WR Josh Doctson after the game. No walking boot. Says he's feeling better.

 

 

That's a good point about getting excited about Doctson again...easy to overlook the potential he brings and just focus on all the stuff that we didn't like about the loss yesterday.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Didn't we cover this over the holidays in the other thread?

[carex]

17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Agreed. I just meant on a more philosophical level...

 

If McCloughan wants a team of big, physical players and Gruden wants to run a finesse offense then we have an issue. Again, I'm not stating that I know or think this is happening, but the two levels (GM and coach) need to share a philosophy or, at a minimum, the coach needs to adapt to whatever players the GM is acquiring. 

 

I just went back and looked at the Bengals roster in 2013, when he was their OC.  No OL under 300, WRs range from 5'7 to 6'4, big TEs.  the RBs seem about average

 

 

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, RedBeast said:

I'm snorting the kool aid right out the packet.

Either you believe, or you don't. 

I've been mainlining it for two years...

[Reaper Skins]

14 hours ago, zoony said:

 

Josh Norman was a great FA pickup

 

That was a freak occurrence.  Spoke nothing of GMSM's skillset that a team would be dumb enough to cut their all-pro CB a few months before the start of training camp.

 

If that's going to be your strategy to build a roster, well, .... you said it best.  Not worth mentioning. 

I disagree with this.  All the reports when this happened mentioned how aggressive he was in pursuing him, how he refused to let Norman leave the room to field other offers, how he made the effort to get to know his family, how much he talked up Norman's attitude and how it was in line with his goals for the organization.

 

definitley more thn just dumb luck that Norman decided to sign here.

[theTruthTeller]

15 hours ago, zoony said:

...

I mean, if you want to franchise Cousins and play that game, bring some competition in and apply leverage.  What does GMSM do?  He actually brings more weapons in for Cousins to throw to and improve his numbers.  Doctson, Vernon D, etc. Interesting way of negotiating what you think will be a better price.

...

 

This was the baffling part.  I understand the uncertainty about Cousins and not wanting to saddle the team with a huge contract until that uncertainty was resolved.  But contracts for up-and-coming QBs are pretty formulaic - a decent signing bonus ($10M) + the first two years base salaries guaranteed (say $36M).  So about $46M in guaranteed salary/bonuses that will be entirely paid out in two years.  Whenever Scot decided to franchise KC and not bring in realistic competition, he de facto made Kirk the starter for the next two years, if the Skins are to be competitive in 2017.  Anyone could have surmised that there will be no healthy veteran QB as good as KC in FA for 2017 and, if there were, the competition would be crazy with other QB starved teams.  So guarantying the first two years' salary was basically a no risk proposition. Now the choice will be to (1) pay KC another $24M and still not have a QB signed for the future, (2) sign a contract in desperation with KC, which will undoubtedly have more than $26M in guarantees, (3) pick up a re-tread on the cheap or (4) draft a QB and pray.

 

It's true, I don't have any idea if Kirk would have taken a 5Y $100M contract with $46M guaranteed, but I think there is a good chance - and it certainly would have begun serious negotiations.  That contract would have been much better than anything we're realistically looking at now, even after yesterday's disaster.  Or SM could have drafted a realistic alternative in 2016 - its not like Doctson was filling an immediate need.

[RandyHolt]

Watch Scot take a QB with our first. Hey, he was just the best player available.

[ddub52]

9 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

That's nice. Not sure how that makes McLovin a genius for getting a good player for $70 mil.

Yeah, and great golfers miss 5 foot putts pretty often. But hitting a 5 foot putt doesn't make you Tiger Woods, does it?

 

Or, i you really insist on giving a GM credit for finding good players with early 1st rounders and enormous contracts, then you also have to call him an idiot for every 6th and 7th rounder who didn't make the roster. It has to go both ways or the hypocrisy is just too laughable to be taken seriously.

I never said that the guy is a genius, without fault, or that every move he has made is good. It's funny that you're arguing against a position that I never took. I just said some of the good moves he has made are at least worth mentioning and/or worthy of some credit. I'm the one who was calling for it to go both ways, since all the negative was already already being piled on, while some positives weren't even mentioned. I guess you missed that. Calling SM an idiot if a 7th round pick doesn't make the team is not the equivalent of saying some moves are worth mentioning. I know this loss is tough and message boards are used to vent, so I can understand your overreactive responses.

 

This thread most likely wouldn't exist had we won yesterday. It would have been (just another post) in the McLoughan thread. 

[zoony]

17 minutes ago, ddub52 said:

 

 

This thread most likely wouldn't exist had we won yesterday. 

 

you'll have to take my word for it that it would.

 

The loss yesterday had zero effect on any of the points made.  

[TK]

8 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

Yeah, just gonna bookmark this for definitely *NOT* a calling out thread in 2018 (those are against the rules) because some people are gonna feel crazy stupid.

Except that's NOT what the Rule is about. 

 

You can call out an idiot for being an idiot. Always have been able to do so. You can call out a post or the idea of the post. 

 

What you dont don't do is call someone out to meet you face to face to stomp a mud hole in their ass & walk that sum**** dry. 

[Est.1974]

53 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Watch Scot take a QB with our first. Hey, he was just the best player available.

Don't be daft. If we lose Garcon and Jackson it will be WR all the way. That would be fun too.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Watch Scot take a QB with our first. Hey, he was just the best player available.

 

By sheer dumb luck (won an auction) I had a chance to spend 2 hours with Scot about 7 weeks ago.  I've been trying to be very good at keeping what he told me "stays in the room" to actually stay in that room.  So I've avoided being too specific.   But I'll summarize it this way.  The people who have been unhappy with him on these fronts: why is he going offense in the draft with all these defensive needs?  Why isn't he more aggressive in FA?  What's up with D line and safety?   These critics will likely be very very happy with this off season.   I'd describe his intensity and determination on this issues on a scale of 0-100 at a 150.    And I spoke to him about what he thought about the other teams in the division.  I'll say based on that conversation, I'd hazard a guess that them losing to the Giants for the season closer -- has likely made him apoplectic and miles worse than anyone on this thread.  

 

The team didn't play yesterday with their hair on fire.  But I'd bet my mortgage that Scot is walking around the building with his hair on fire about fixing this defense.   He IMO will get it done.  

 

Jerry Reese was lampooned last year by the local NY media for being a clown of a GM -- fast forward to this year, he in one off season via 3 FA signings turned around that defense.  The other factor was Landon Collins growing as a player -- Collins off season tutor was Ryan Clark.  I like the fact that Cravens will be working likewise this off season with Ryan Clark.

[Major Harris]

I can't take this thread seriously until you spell mcstuffins name right 

@zoony

[zoony]

8 minutes ago, Major Harris said:

I can't take this thread seriously until you spell mcstuffins name right 

@zoony

 

We could literally just go thru the entire Mickey D's menu

 

McGriddle

McRib

McMuffin

[Rattlesnake88]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The people who have been unhappy with him on these fronts: why is he going offense in the draft with all these defensive needs?  Why isn't he more aggressive in FA?  What's up with D line and safety?   These critics will likely be very very happy with this off season.   I'd describe his intensity and determination on this issues on a scale of 0-100 at a 150.    And I spoke to him about what he thought about the other teams in the division.  I'll say based on that conversation, I'd hazard a guess that them losing to the Giants for the season closer -- has likely made him apoplectic and miles worse than anyone on this thread.  

 

The team didn't play yesterday with their hair on fire.  But I'd bet my mortgage that Scot is walking around the building with his hair on fire about fixing this defense.   He IMO will get it done.  

I am sure one of the things that was to stay in the room was something to this effect "We wont let Kirk walk out of the building if he performs again like 2015". With that being said do you think he stands by that after week 17? Do you think there is a chance he believes he can fix this team without Kirk?

[Morneblade]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

By sheer dumb luck (won an auction) I had a chance to spend 2 hours with Scot about 7 weeks ago.  I've been trying to be very good at keeping what he told me "stays in the room" to actually stay in that room.  So I've avoided being too specific.   But I'll summarize it this way.  The people who have been unhappy with him on these fronts: why is he going offense in the draft with all these defensive needs?  Why isn't he more aggressive in FA?  What's up with D line and safety?   These critics will likely be very very happy with this off season.   I'd describe his intensity and determination on this issues on a scale of 0-100 at a 150.    And I spoke to him about what he thought about the other teams in the division.  I'll say based on that conversation, I'd hazard a guess that them losing to the Giants for the season closer -- has likely made him apoplectic and miles worse than anyone on this thread.  

 

The team didn't play yesterday with their hair on fire.  But I'd bet my mortgage that Scot is walking around the building with his hair on fire about fixing this defense.   He IMO will get it done.  

 

Jerry Reese was lampooned last year by the local NY media for being a clown of a GM -- fast forward to this year, he in one off season via 3 FA signings turned around that defense.  The other factor was Landon Collins growing as a player -- Collins off season tutor was Ryan Clark.  I like the fact that Cravens will be working likewise this off season with Ryan Clark.

 

I've kinda been watching your posts because I knew that you had a chance to listen to him one on one. This makes me happy. I just Hope a new DC is included with it.

 

Personally, I think people need to refresh themselves on what he has done with San Fran and Seattle. He isn't an average GM. And he certainly does not suck.

[zoony]

Of course we all hope SIP is correct

[NewCliche21]

36 minutes ago, TK said:

Except that's NOT what the Rule is about. 

 

You can call out an idiot for being an idiot. Always have been able to do so. You can call out a post or the idea of the post. 

 

What you dont don't do is call someone out to meet you face to face to stomp a mud hole in their ass & walk that sum**** dry. 

 

Ugh, I read the rule TITLE, doesn't that get me some sort of credit?