The McGlouaeiouandsometimesygghhggain Kool-Aid - No thanks. I'll stick to coffee.

[MattFancy]

1 minute ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Of course it is always worth getting a good guard but my point is that guards are not worth the price at the 5th pick. They can be had lower. It costs more to get a good  DE than a guard in FA. Here are the other guards in the pro bowl. Martin rd1-16th pick. Yanda 3rd round. Osemele 2nd round. Decastro 1st rd 24th pick. Not one guy even close to 5 overall and I think Osemele was let go by someone and picked up by someone else so IMO you can get a guard much easier than a DE. You had Corvette money to spend and you spent it on a land barge.

 

How was Scherff not worth the 5th pick when he has been nothing but great for us? He's been arguably our best OL the last 2 seasons. Who cares if guards don't get picked in the top 5? Everyone bashed Dallas a few years ago for reaching for Travis Frederick. How has that worked out? Thanks McCloughan for "reaching" and getting a Pro Bowl caliber player for us at #5 overall. You've now ruined our team.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, MattFancy said:

 

How was Scherff not worth the 5th pick when he has been nothing but great for us? He's been arguably our best OL the last 2 seasons. Who cares if guards don't get picked in the top 5? Everyone bashed Dallas a few years ago for reaching for Travis Frederick. How has that worked out? Thanks McCloughan for "reaching" and getting a Pro Bowl caliber player for us at #5 overall. You've now ruined our team.

Great is a pretty brave word to use. Who cares if we waste picks? We are the eternally loosing Redskins. Now you are getting it,when even a Sheriff fan like you call him a reach.

[MattFancy]

Just now, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Great is a pretty brave word to use. Who cares if we waste picks? We are the eternally loosing Redskins. Now you are getting it,when even a Sheriff fan like you call him a reach.

 

I'm glad you're not the GM of the team

[bradboyd80]

5 minutes ago, MattFancy said:

 

I'm glad you're not the GM of the team

You're wasting your time with him, man.  His opinion is gospel.  

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, bradboyd80 said:

You're wasting your time with him, man.  His opinion is gospel.  

I provide proof for all the statements I make. Has nothing to do with the gospel. I don't make statements like "thanks for reaching." You guys are happy with SM picks, fine. Enjoy watching the team that cleaned your teams clock playing in Green Bay this weekend 

[ThomasRoane]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree with your overall point here.   Its a better pass blocking than run blocking offensive line, I think we need a Scherff type, a mauler at LG.  And agree we need a real blocking TE.   And agree with your point that just an average-so so defense would turn this team around considering the firepower on offense.  I also agree a good running game would go along way towards helping the defense.   I know its a risky point to make on this thread but on the draft thread I am saying if Dalvin Cook drops to #17, I'd find it very tempting.

 

I wouldn't hate that.  That kid is faster than Elliot and just as tough.  What I'd really like to do is draft Clemson's D-line!  What they managed to do to Meyer was nothing short of amazing. 

[CTskin]

Dalvin Cook over a defensive upgrade? Barring a big time free agency spending spree on the defensive side of the ball, this would be unacceptable. Our D is lacking far too much talent and our issues with the run game are due to poor OL/TE blocking, it's not the RB play.

 

Enough about Scherff/Leonard debate. Close your eyes, bring yourselves back to the end of the 2014 season- we were losing our minds with the revolving doors of Compton/Plombus/Chester/LeRibs/Moses (he looked like a bust then) and were desperate for a competent lineman besides TW. Then on the defensive side of the ball, "Capital Punishment" had been assembled, and although most of us didn't buy into the name, we firmly believed our DL would be strong. We drafted Scherff over Leonard Williams based on need instead of best-on-board, but we were desperate and I don't hold it against McClu at all... Very few of us, if any, foresaw Capital Punishment crumbling so quickly and leaving us desperate for DL help. Good proof of draft technique- BoB vs need. 

 

Man, Kirk's interception leaves a real bad taste in my mouth. Then to think back to when he blew the Cowboys game (the 1st one)... I was all about signing him to the long-term $24M/yr deal, but his play over the past month+ hasn't been good. We're talking about playing poorly in "must-win" games. His stats prove him to be an above average QB, but when the game's on the line, I just don't trust him. Besides the Packers game, he's looked so nervous/rattled on prime time. Brady, Wilson, Big Ben, Dak, Ryan, Carr, etc., just never have that look. I'm torn between thinking "we finally have a QB, we'd be crazy to let him go... look at the last 20 QB-less years" and "franchise tag him, he'll walk after this year, draft a QB in the mid-rounds who'll hopefully (double-crossed fingers) pick up the system and use Kirk's future $24M/yr on fixing the terrible defense." 

[Forehead]

Point of order:  This may have already been addressed but I stopped reading after two pages.  I believe Zoony's words were something about not giving Mac credit for Scherff because his dog could make a top 5 draft pick.  If that's the case, why are we listing Trent Williams under Shanahan/Allen's great picks, and not awarding them -1,000,000 for RG3?  Because right now, the outrage only feels like about -10,000.  I need more zeros in my outrage.

[Heisenberg]

12 minutes ago, Forehead said:

Point of order:  This may have already been addressed but I stopped reading after two pages.  I believe Zoony's words were something about not giving Mac credit for Scherff because his dog could make a top 5 draft pick.  If that's the case, why are we listing Trent Williams under Shanahan/Allen's great picks, and not awarding them -1,000,000 for RG3?  Because right now, the outrage only feels like about -10,000.  I need more zeros in my outrage.

 

I agree with you but I'm also 100% convinced RG3 was a Dan pick based on everything that happened and was said afterwards.  The Kirk pick later on reinforces that for me.

 

I'm assuming a lot of people think that way as well.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, CTskin said:

Dalvin Cook over a defensive upgrade? Barring a big time free agency spending spree on the defensive side of the ball, this would be unacceptable. Our D is lacking far too much talent and our issues with the run game are due to poor OL/TE blocking, it's not the RB play.

 

Enough about Scherff/Leonard debate. Close your eyes, bring yourselves back to the end of the 2014 season- we were losing our minds with the revolving doors of Compton/Plombus/Chester/LeRibs/Moses (he looked like a bust then) and were desperate for a competent lineman besides TW. Then on the defensive side of the ball, "Capital Punishment" had been assembled, and although most of us didn't buy into the name, we firmly believed our DL would be strong. We drafted Scherff over Leonard Williams based on need instead of best-on-board, but we were desperate and I don't hold it against McClu at all... Very few of us, if any, foresaw Capital Punishment crumbling so quickly and leaving us desperate for DL help. Good proof of draft technique- BoB vs need. 

 

Man, Kirk's interception leaves a real bad taste in my mouth. Then to think back to when he blew the Cowboys game (the 1st one)... I was all about signing him to the long-term $24M/yr deal, but his play over the past month+ hasn't been good. We're talking about playing poorly in "must-win" games. His stats prove him to be an above average QB, but when the game's on the line, I just don't trust him. Besides the Packers game, he's looked so nervous/rattled on prime time. Brady, Wilson, Big Ben, Dak, Ryan, Carr, etc., just never have that look. I'm torn between thinking "we finally have a QB, we'd be crazy to let him go... look at the last 20 QB-less years" and "franchise tag him, he'll walk after this year, draft a QB in the mid-rounds who'll hopefully (double-crossed fingers) pick up the system and use Kirk's future $24M/yr on fixing the terrible defense." 

Kirk's interception, just what did you see? I saw a QB that was harassed all day. Right from the start, early 1st quarter,  a Giant D lineman blew past Sheriff and almost creamed him.  Of course he was gun shy. No running game, Giants blitzing. On the last int, KC dropped back and was throwing into a 6-7 DB defense, and everyone was covered.and the Giant linemen were teeing off. The Giants knew he had to pass and they pulled out all the stops.There was a defender closing in on him from his right, and he was reaching for KC.  I did not see a safety valve or anyone that was even close to KC. KC unloaded to the nearest receiver who was covered. It was either that or a sack. I blame the coaches for not giving KC a safety valve. I onLy saw the play 2 times at regular speed and I am basing my post on that. I would like to see the play in slow motion to be sure..I did think he was inaccurate early but that could have  been because of the pass rush also. He did look tight early

[CTskin]

1 minute ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Kirk's interception, just what did you see? I saw a QB that was harassed all day. Right from the start, early 1st quarter,  a Giant D lineman blew past Sheriff and almost creamed him.  Of course he was gun shy. No running game, Giants blitzing. On the last int, KC dropped back and was throwing into a 6-7 DB defense, and everyone was covered.and the Giant linemen were teeing off. The Giants knew he had to pass and they pulled out all the stops.There was a defender closing in on him from his right, and he was reaching for KC.  I did not see a safety valve or anyone that was even close to KC. KC unloaded to the nearest receiver who was covered. It was either that or a sack. I blame the coaches for not giving KC a safety valve. I onLy saw the play 2 times at regular speed and I am basing my post on that. I would like to see the play in slow motion to be sure..I did think he was inaccurate early but that could have  been because of the pass rush also. He did look tight early

I don't think it's fair to say anyone blew by Scherff, the pressure got to Cousins because of coverage. You're not wrong when you say he had no safety valve, but look how much open grass there is in front of him. I guess he'll never change, but is it really too much to ask to go off-script, tuck the ball and run... the defense knows he'll never do it and disregards it as even being an option that they need to defend. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, Heisenberg said:

 

I agree with you but I'm also 100% convinced RG3 was a Dan pick based on everything that happened and was said afterwards.  The Kirk pick later on reinforces that for me.

 

I'm assuming a lot of people think that way as well.

My rational mind cannot fathom a guy with MS experience throwing away 3 high picks and picking a RG3 type of QB. Deal sounds and looks like another DS extravaganza. If it quacks. MS then drafted his type of QB in KC. After it was over MS did the best he could to get a offence suited for him but it was never going to work. RG3 is just not a pocket NFL QB. MS prob said to himself that DS is a jerk and I am spinning my wheels here in DC.

[Heisenberg]

3 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

My rational mind cannot fathom a guy with MS experience throwing away 3 high picks and picking a RG3 type of QB. Deal sounds and looks like another DS extravaganza. If it quacks. MS then drafted his type of QB in KC. After it was over MS did the best he could to get a offence suited for him but it was never going to work. RG3 is just not a pocket NFL QB. MS prob said to himself that DS is a jerk and I am spinning my wheels here in DC.

 

Pretty much where I've been at with that since 2013 or so.  In retrospect, Shanahan never seemed as high on RG3 as you'd expect after spending that much in draft picks to get him.  I firmly believe it was Dan making up his mind he had to have him and Shanahan having to go along with it.  The stories of Dan being an RG3 fanboy from day 1 do nothing to make me think otherwise.

[RedBeast]

Giants lineman that blew by him?: blown assignment I bet, but whose? Scherff is going to the pro bowl in his second season... I don't even think Trent got there in his second season. And I agree the team needed Scherff slightly more than we needed Williams att

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, CTskin said:

I don't think it's fair to say anyone blew by Scherff, the pressure got to Cousins because of coverage. You're not wrong when you say he had no safety valve, but look how much open grass there is in front of him. I guess he'll never change, but is it really too much to ask to go off-script, tuck the ball and run... the defense knows he'll never do it and disregards it as even being an option that they need to defend. 

I know he had grass but the Giant D lineman, on his right, was reaching for him. Do not know how close but it scared me. Yes he prob could have got a bunch of yards but it was happening fast and pos that guy on the right would have sacked him if he tried to run.. Think DRC was setting him up too but can't be sure. PG not working back to him was big. Giants have a real good D with lots of good players. Championship caliber. I would not call anyone a bum for not beating that D. Hard row to hoe going against that D with no running game. Forgot to add that JPP did not play so it could have been worse. Let's see how Rodgers does against them. Would need to see play in sm to be sure.

Just now, RedBeast said:

Giants lineman that blew by him?: blown assignment I bet, but whose? Scherff is going to the pro bowl in his second season... I don't even think Trent got there in his second season. And I agree the team needed Scherff slightly more than we needed Williams att

I submit. You are 100% right.

[ThomasRoane]

55 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Kirk's interception, just what did you see? I saw a QB that was harassed all day. Right from the start, early 1st quarter,  a Giant D lineman blew past Sheriff and almost creamed him.  Of course he was gun shy. No running game, Giants blitzing. On the last int, KC dropped back and was throwing into a 6-7 DB defense, and everyone was covered.and the Giant linemen were teeing off. The Giants knew he had to pass and they pulled out all the stops.There was a defender closing in on him from his right, and he was reaching for KC.  I did not see a safety valve or anyone that was even close to KC. KC unloaded to the nearest receiver who was covered. It was either that or a sack. I blame the coaches for not giving KC a safety valve. I onLy saw the play 2 times at regular speed and I am basing my post on that. I would like to see the play in slow motion to be sure..I did think he was inaccurate early but that could have  been because of the pass rush also. He did look tight early

 

In my mind I was thinking Kirk should have just ran the ball but reviewing the play it's obvious that he didn't have that as an option.  Thompson was grabbed by number 57.  (Giants got away with a lot of crap Sunday - hope Mara gets the zika virus!)  You can't just knock Kirk without giving Spags some credit.  He didn't sit back in a zone like our team does.  It looked like a cover two shell at first but it was really a cover 2 man under.  I don't think Kirk expected Garcon to have a db playing in a trail technique. 

 

Start watching at about the 3:23 mark.  Man!  What I wouldn't give for a lineman like #96!!!  That guy gets just as much credit as DRC really.  Kirk can't put that ball out in front of Garcon because Long engages but 96 (who just beat Scherff) is still doing work.  Kirk has to keep sliding to his left to get the ball off and it's hard to get enough torque on the ball to keep it from fading behind when you're sliding that way as a right-hander. 

 

Ultimately, this game was lost in the trenches.  Kirk was harassed all day and if you remember their last super bowl victory they did the same thing to the great Tom Brady.  Made him look very average.  Straight up locked down the cowpies and Matt Stafford with the Lions.  They completely locked down our running game.  We couldn't get one yard on the first series on a 3rd and 1.  If we could have scored on that first drive the giants may have waved the white flag.  Then later on, we couldn't get a few inches on 3rd down when we were taking back momentum. 

 

Our D-Line couldn't get off blocks.  (Hell, #96 beat two blockers!  Preston Smith can't beat one!)  Kelley routinely got hit in the backfield.  The Oline gave up four sacks to a team that really didn't care about the game; until we showed them that we didn't come to play.  Our D-line became road kill to an average RB who managed to run for over a hundred for the first time this year.  That is, until the giants decided to just sit OBJ in the second half and run the ball on 3rd and 8, 3rd and 3, etc. 

 

The Redskins need some linenmen on both sides of the ball who refuse to be denied.  In a must have game the Giants #96 and crew wanted the game more than our guys did. 

 

Edit:  To address the OP:  Hey Scot!  Get us some guys like #96 please! Or draft the Clemson D-line in the 1st thru 4th rounds.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BiLV4JfUWw

[ThomasRoane]

Of course this is Monday morning Quarterbacking but if you watch Thompson at the 3:26 mark I'm not sure why he does a stick right goes straight then another stick right.  He should have just broke that guy off with one stick and ran away from him.  That would have put him right in Kirk's vision as an easy dump off option.  Reed had cleared his man.  Thompson could have possibly got another first down and got out of bounds to stop the clock.  Ah well...

 

When a QB scrambles, we teach our receivers to get friendly.  Find a way to get into the QB's vision and give him an option where the defense can't make a play on the ball.  Doesn't matter how open you are if the QB can't see you. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Great post Thomas. Lots of insight.

[maskedsuperstar]

3 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I provide proof for all the statements I make. Has nothing to do with the gospel. I don't make statements like "thanks for reaching." You guys are happy with SM picks, fine. Enjoy watching the team that cleaned your teams clock playing in Green Bay this weekend 

Scot didn't build the Seahawks and 49ers in 2 years. It took time. And it paid off. Every GM misses on players. It happens! Name a GM that hasn't. The Skins are moving in the right direction. 

Fans wanted Vinny gone and a GM hired. The same fans wanted the team built through the draft. You got it. And win a Super Bowl at the same time? Not happening!

[Wildbunny]

3 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I provide proof for all the statements I make. Has nothing to do with the gospel. I don't make statements like "thanks for reaching." You guys are happy with SM picks, fine. Enjoy watching the team that cleaned your teams clock playing in Green Bay this weekend 

Your proof have always been very debatable... Mostly, you pick stuff that suits your narrative and wipe the other things.

Get over it, seriously. Don't want to spend the next ten years reading stuff about Scherff/Williams.

 

46 minutes ago, CTskin said:

I don't think it's fair to say anyone blew by Scherff, the pressure got to Cousins because of coverage. You're not wrong when you say he had no safety valve, but look how much open grass there is in front of him. I guess he'll never change, but is it really too much to ask to go off-script, tuck the ball and run... the defense knows he'll never do it and disregards it as even being an option that they need to defend. 

Yeah I wondered as well why he didn't run the ball at this point. I doubt he's dumb as hell to not do it. But most probably overthinking too much here. At some point, tuck the ball and run. So I would think he's not teached into that.

[ThomasRoane]

4 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Yeah I wondered as well why he didn't run the ball at this point. I doubt he's dumb as hell to not do it. But most probably overthinking too much here. At some point, tuck the ball and run. So I would think he's not teached into that.

 

He has run the ball a lot more this year.  See the Chicago game.  Look at the clip I posted.  There was no way he was going to get by #96 if he ran.  The only real option was throw the ball in the dirt at Jordan Reed (best option) or take a sack (bad but not worst option). 

7 minutes ago, maskedsuperstar said:

Scot didn't build the Seahawks and 49ers in 2 years. It took time. And it paid off. Every GM misses on players. It happens! Name a GM that hasn't. The Skins are moving in the right direction. 

Fans wanted Vinny gone and a GM hired. The same fans wanted the team built through the draft. You got it. And win a Super Bowl at the same time? Not happening!

 

To clarify he wasn't the GM at Seattle.  Their GM is a guy Snyder fired.  Scot may have helped but we can't officially give him credit for any of their picks.  And look at Seattle without him.  Still bringing in quality players. 

[ILikeBilly]

On 1/1/2017 at 4:47 PM, zoony said:

Defense sucks?  SM has a plan.  Cousins' contract a distraction all year?  SM was smart to franchise him!.  We have the two worst inside linebackers in the history of football?  SM has a plan!!!!.  Our starting safety is a corpse?  SM has a PLAN!!!  

 

The Cousins' contract was only a distraction to the people on this board.  It seems it was 100% a non-issue since the day Kirk signed the contract.  If Kirk is truly a top 10 QB, we actually get an extra year out of him by waiting to sign him long term.  If he signed a 5 year deal last year, we would have 4 left.  Once he signs the deal in a month or 4, we will have him for the next 5 seasons. 

 

Yes, our run D was bad, but it was good enough.  The D gave up a first down over 50% of the time when it was 3rd and 6 or more.  That is not a run down. 

If we move from 50+ % to say 33%, we win more games.  We drafted Fuller, signed Norman and tried to fill the cursed safety spot.  GMSM did what was needed.  The problem lies else where (coach, scheme, players...)

 

If our kicker makes 3 more field goals (my choice on which ones) and we win more games.  Kicker was great last year, but had a set back this year.  How could GMSM know?  What could he actually do? 

 

We all know to wait for 3 seasons to judge a draft/unsigned free agent class.  Giving up on Josh, Su'a, Kendall, Matt and the others too soon is likely going to make you look foolish by this time next year.  I expect 3 of those 4 will have major playing time by next year.  All 4 could be starters in year 3. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, Wildbunny said:

Your proof have always been very debatable... Mostly, you pick stuff that suits your narrative and wipe the other things.

Get over it, seriously. Don't want to spend the next ten years reading stuff about Scherff/Williams.

 

Yeah I wondered as well why he didn't run the ball at this point. I doubt he's dumb as hell to not do it. But most probably overthinking too much here. At some point, tuck the ball and run. So I would think he's not teached into that.

You guys are 100%right, especially you Bunny. "Mostly pick stuff that suits your narrative?"  Bunny, that is how you support your case, with proof.  Go ahead debate it. You have a computer. If you don't want to read about the Sheriff /Wiliams stuff then don't read the threads asking for our opinion of SM. Those 2 guys will forever be joined and it was SM first draft pick. 

[CTskin]

8 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

To clarify he wasn't the GM at Seattle.  Their GM is a guy Snyder fired.  Scot may have helped but we can't officially give him credit for any of their picks.  And look at Seattle without him.  Still bringing in quality players. 

Funny you say that. Look a bit closer at the 9ers and Seahawks since McClu left. Well, you don't have to look deep into the 9ers to see how they've fared. Now, look at the Seahawks- yes they're in the playoffs again, but not nearly the beast they were when McClu was there. There hasn't been one studly Sherman/Wagner/Thomas/Wilson-type pick since he left three years ago. Jarran Reed and Frank Clark could both be solid, but that D has gotten less and less scary with each year McClu's been gone.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, ThomasRoane said:

Of course this is Monday morning Quarterbacking but if you watch Thompson at the 3:26 mark I'm not sure why he does a stick right goes straight then another stick right.  He should have just broke that guy off with one stick and ran away from him.  That would have put him right in Kirk's vision as an easy dump off option.  Reed had cleared his man.  Thompson could have possibly got another first down and got out of bounds to stop the clock.  Ah well...

 

When a QB scrambles, we teach our receivers to get friendly.  Find a way to get into the QB's vision and give him an option where the defense can't make a play on the ball.  Doesn't matter how open you are if the QB can't see you. 

Like I said, PG not working back was big. He kept running parallel to the LOS. KC had no good targets. I never saw Thompson when I saw the play unfold, just lots of big fast guys trying to rip KC head off.