Trump and his cabinet/buffoonery- Get your bunkers ready!

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, blueskin said:

You all need to lighten the **** up.

 

By God that post was full of straw men.  Their job is playing football, not standing for a National anthem.  Standing for the national anthem is not an equivalent duty to safeguarding patient information.

 

These are black athletes protesting the murder and brutalization of black men by police by silently kneeling during the national anthem.  The people who are losing their minds over this incredibly benign form of protest are the ones who need to lighten the **** up.

 

Your whole post comes off like just another out of touch white guy telling minorities to shut up and know their place.

[spjunkies]

What you people who seem to think your little boycott will hurt the NFL's bottom line fail to realize there is another end of people like me who will support the product even stronger. I haven't purchased a Redskins jersey in years, but I might be tempted to buy a jersey of a guy who decides to protest, just to show some support. I'm sure there are many others with the same mindset.

[Bang]

Noe of those guys were who they eventually became in their early days.

Time doesn't stand still.

 

if you were their boss, you could tell them to do their jobs and such.

 

But y'ain't.

 

So go neuter some puppies or whatever, because that rant was silly.

 

~Bang

[Llevron]

They are allowed by the NFL, thier employer,  to protest. They have said it repeatedly. So why do some of you dotards continue to say "protest on your own time"? 

 

How many ways does it need to be said???

[Bang]

try it in Russian, Llevron.

~Bang

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, Bang said:

try it in Russian, Llevron.

~Bang

 

 

Oni razresheny NFL, ikh rabotodatelem, v znak protesta. Oni govorili eto neodnokratno. Itak, pochemu nekotoryye iz vas dottery prodolzhayut govorit' «protest v svoye vremya»?

 

 

So says Google translate at least 

[twa]

18 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

You voted for He's still better than Hillary.  Your voting him in, supports every single action he makes as president.

 

No, just as I can support/oppose actions by those I did not vote for.

 

and yes, still better than Hillary.

[Cooked Crack]

13 minutes ago, blueskin said:

He has his first amendment rights as well.  He stated his opinion in a forum he felt comfortable.  My opinion is close; protest outside of your job.  If you own the shop, fine.  Otherwise, protest out in the public sphere where the 1st amendment safeguards your speech.  The first amendment governs CONGRESS (and by extension, the government) shutting down speech.  Private corporations have more latitude. If your job is oppressive or supporting things you can't countenance, then quit and find something else to do.

 

If you're including government why does the President of the United States not count. He oversees agencies that regulate the league and other businesses of owners. He can shut down speech with the powers provided to him. You're still thinking this bum only speaks for himself when his words can carry the weight of the Executive branch. Calling for people to lose their jobs is stepping over a line. Even if spokesperson is calling for termination for employment for speech that happened that happened over Twitter.

[blueskin]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

By God that post was full of straw men.  Their job is playing football, not standing for a National anthem.  Standing for the national anthem is not an equivalent duty to safeguarding patient information.

 

These are black athletes protesting the murder and brutalization of black men by police by silently kneeling during the national anthem.  The people who are losing their minds over this incredibly benign form of protest are the ones who need to lighten the **** up.

 

Your whole post comes off like just another out of touch white guy telling minorities to shut up and know their place.

 

3 minutes ago, Llevron said:

They are allowed by the NFL, thier employer,  to protest. They have said it repeatedly. So why do some of you dotards continue to say "protest on your own time"? 

 

How many ways does it need to be said???

 

And it is my opinion that what they are doing is wrong-- wrong in spirit and wrong in forum.  When John Carlos raised his fist to the sky at the '68 Olympics during the anthem, he was an amateur athlete who was protesting ACTUAL racial oppression-- from both the Jim Crow south, and Avery Brundage.  He wasn't an employee of a corporation, and he wasn't being paid millions of dollars by the very people he was protesting.  That was a pure protest, and worthy of all of our thanks and praise.  And if the USOC had sent him home, well, that was THEIR right.

 

I am not going to protest in the streets on behalf of a heroin-dealing ex-con who tried to run over the police attempting to detain him, nor the 'aspiring college student' who strong-arm robbed a convenience store owned by a diminutive Asian man and was subsequently shot after punching the officer in the face (read the actual trial report).  Now, I will protest for Philando Castile, who was gunned down by a HISPANIC police officer who probably had one too many coffees and steroid doses that morning, and by rights should be rotting in prison.  (also that guy in South Carolina who was shot in the back-- but the cop is IIRC rotting in prison) 

 

But I will protest in the public arena, wearing my own clothes and not the emblem of my employer who may/may not be hurt by my stance.  As an individual standing in solidarity with other individuals seeking redress.  Whether or not my employer allows it or not.

 

And another thing- protest is meaningless unless you actually risk losing something as a result.  Otherwise it is just virtue-signalling.

[redskins59]

I think the best solution is to not even play the national anthem.  The anthem is by nature political.  So the best way to make it apolitical is to not make it part of the opening act.  

I liked what the steelers did tbh.  Yes, the Trump supporters will find it offensive, but eventually, the controversy will go away.

[StillUnknown]

1 minute ago, blueskin said:

 

 

And it is my opinion that what they are doing is wrong-- wrong in spirit and wrong in forum.  When John Carlos raised his fist to the sky at the '68 Olympics during the anthem, he was an amateur athlete who was protesting ACTUAL racial oppression-- from both the Jim Crow south, and Avery Brundage.  He wasn't an employee of a corporation, and he wasn't being paid millions of dollars by the very people he was protesting.  That was a pure protest, and worthy of all of our thanks and praise.  And if the USOC had sent him home, well, that was THEIR right.

 

And another thing- protest is meaningless unless you actually risk losing something as a result.  Otherwise it is just virtue-signalling.

 

police brutality and killings of unarmed black men have been imagined apparently

 

Kaep has literally been blackballed from the league, he has lost something as a result

[blueskin]

3 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

If you're including government why does the President of the United States not count. He oversees agencies that regulate the league and other businesses of owners. He can shut down speech with the powers provided to him. You're still thinking this bum only speaks for himself when his words can carry the weight of the Executive branch. Calling for people to lose their jobs is stepping over a line. Even if spokesperson is calling for termination for employment for speech that happened that happened over Twitter.

 

So quote me the executive order he signed that summarily fired those protesting.  Of course, the jackbooted thugs of the FBI raided Kaepernick's home and carted him off to the gulag, so I guess I had better be quiet.. oh, that didn't happen?

 

Sheesh, Americans can be such pantywaists.  I used to live in a country where the Military dictator's secret police actually blew up journalists right after they protested something or printed something he didn't like (google Dele Giwa, or Ken Saro-Wiwa).  The constitution will prevent Orange Hitler from abridging your precious rights, okay?

[AsburySkinsFan]

3 hours ago, readonly said:

Let's see  how this whole thing started:  Kap got benched and was pouting.  Reporters noticed his lazy, insolent butt slouching during the anthem and remarked on it.  Had he previously come with an announcement of some sort of protest?  No, but now he runs with it.  It is my firm belief that this did not begin as an intentional protest.  And sums up the merit of the whole thing.

 

I don't like Trump and I don't like the protests either.  I find them disgusting.  If they continue more fans will walk away.  If the Redskins start in on it, I will vote with my remote and turn it off.

 

And when dollars march away from the NFL these idiots will get the poetic justice they deserve. 

Good...bye!!! 

Doubt we’ll miss you.

Since being a veteran is the ultimate test of patriotism and whether a position is correct, I say this.

I am a veteran and I support their right to kneel in protest during the anthem. Why? Because I believe more in the Freedom of Expression than I do your delicate conservative sensibilities. Again, I am a veteran, that means I’m right and you cannot question my position on this issue of patriotism.

20 minutes ago, Llevron said:

They are allowed by the NFL, thier employer,  to protest. They have said it repeatedly. So why do some of you dotards continue to say "protest on your own time"? 

 

How many ways does it need to be said???

Because they are authoritarians who don’t believe in individual freedoms.

[blueskin]

2 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

police brutality and killings of unarmed black men have been imagined apparently

 

Kaep has literally been blackballed from the league, he has lost something as a result

good job selectively quoting my response.  You cut out the middle, where I talk about actual and fake cases of police brutality, and note the differences.  

 

And yes, Kaep is sitting at home.  And it has nothing to do with the fact he turned down re-signing with the 49ers, or his girlfriend posting a comment calling Ray Lewis a house "n-word" and the owner of the Ravens his massa, or the fact that he suck when defenses caught on to the fact he couldn't read 1/2 the field and had no touch on his passes.  Yep.

[Llevron]

Just now, blueskin said:

And it is my opinion that what they are doing is wrong-- wrong in spirit and wrong in forum.  

 

I hope it ruins your ****ing Sunday for years to come lol

[techboy]

23 minutes ago, blueskin said:

He has his first amendment rights as well.

 

Your reasoning is fatally flawed.

 

Donald Trump the private citizen has the right to free speech. It gets murkier when we consider Donald Trump the leader of the executive branch, but if he's still just expressing his private opinion, he still has the right to free speech.

 

Imagine, though, if he issued an executive order making it illegal for late night show hosts to criticize him. That would be a clear violation of the First Ammendment... the government suppressing political speech.

 

Where you go wrong is that Donald Trump, Head of the Executive Branch, has used his twitter to criticize (and create a chilling effect against) the political expression of NFL players. This is not just his personal opinion at this point... he uses that twitter to set public policy. It has been cited in court cases. It has become an arm of the federal government. When he wanted to ban transgender military members from serving, for example, that was his first tool.

 

That is a clear violation of the First Ammendment.

[Cooked Crack]

7 minutes ago, blueskin said:

 

Now, I will protest for Philando Castile, who was gunned down by a HISPANIC police officer who probably had one too many coffees and steroid doses that morning, and by rights should be rotting in prison.  (also that guy in South Carolina who was shot in the back-- but the cop is IIRC rotting in prison) 

 

 

I have a hard time believing you would protest anything.

3 minutes ago, blueskin said:

 

So quote me the executive order he signed that summarily fired those protesting.  Of course, the jackbooted thugs of the FBI raided Kaepernick's home and carted him off to the gulag, so I guess I had better be quiet.. oh, that didn't happen?

 

Sheesh, Americans can be such pantywaists.  I used to live in a country where the Military dictator's secret police actually blew up journalists right after they protested something or printed something he didn't like (google Dele Giwa, or Ken Saro-Wiwa).  The constitution will prevent Orange Hitler from abridging your precious rights, okay?

Cool story. You don't need to write a EO to flex your muscles

[blueskin]

Just now, Llevron said:

 

I hope it ruins your ****ing Sunday for years to come lol

 

My Sundays aren't ruined by you or the protesting players. I will go on, watch the Redskins lose, curse the mental inadequacies of Kirk Cousins, Gruden, and Snyder, and be back the next week to do it again. 

 

Until I get my head on straight and start attending Church again.

 

Oh, and good job not being divisive in your wish that I suffer loss.

[AsburySkinsFan]

BTW, Stadium posters, you should be made aware that your posts here in the Tailgate don’t count.

[twa]

Just now, AsburySkinsFan said:

Good...bye!!! 

Doubt we’ll miss you.

Since being a veteran is the ultimate test of patriotism and whether a position is correct, I say this.

I am a veteran and I support their right to kneel in protest during the anthem. Why? Because I believe more in the Freedom of Expression than I do your delicate conservative sensibilities. Again, I am a veteran, that means I’m right and you cannot question my position on this issue of patriotism.

Because they are authoritarians who don’t believe in individual freedoms.

 

Or they just bought into the MY football team concept wrapped in patriotism the NFL has built on for decades that turned into a cash cow.

 

I blame free agency.

 

[blueskin]

2 minutes ago, techboy said:

 

Your reasoning is fatally flawed.

 

Donald Trump the private citizen has the right to free speech. It gets murkier when we consider Donald Trump the leader of the executive branch, but if he's still just expressing his private opinion, he still has the right to free speech.

 

Imagine, though, if he issued an executive order making it illegal for late night show hosts to criticize him. That would be a clear violation of the First Ammendment... the government suppressing political speech.

 

Where you go wrong is that Donald Trump, Head of the Executive Branch, has used his twitter to criticize (and create a chilling effect against) the political expression of NFL players. This is not just his personal opinion at this point... he uses that twitter to set public policy. It has been cited in court cases. It has become an arm of the federal government. When he wanted to ban transgender military members from serving, for example, that was his first tool.

 

That is a clear violation of the First Ammendment.

 

Please re-read the first amendment.  Where was the law passed? What action, official action, did he take to silence them?  He stated his opinion.  Your opinion is that he is Hitler and a racist, or stupid, or all three.  My opinion is that 'all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God', and just shut up and play, also respect the symbol of your country.  I'm not advocating that anyone lose their job, like Orange Hitler, but still even POTUS doesn't have the power to do any of the things you are imagining in your fevered screed.  If twitter is being cited in court cases, show me where and in which cases, and how it affect the outcome.  

 

So when President Obama expressed his opinions on, say, Henry Gates and the police acting stupidly (I can't remember if he actually posted to twitter or just said it in a press conference), was he dictating official US policy or stating opinion? And the cop involved, was he sent to prison for violating Gates' rights, or to a beer summit for a photo op with POTUS?

 

Please re-read the constitution.  It is a short document, in plain English.  We are not Saudi Arabia or Soviet Russia.  And until I see evidence otherwise, we won't be.  (BTW, is that YouTube Benghazi guy out of jail yet?)

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, blueskin said:

Oh, and good job not being divisive in your wish that I suffer loss.

 

You call other people pantywaists for protesting and complaining about police brutality of black men?  Pantywaists for protesters not having to get dragged off and murdered by secret police?  And then you post this crybaby mess?  

[Llevron]

4 minutes ago, blueskin said:

Oh, and good job not being divisive in your wish that I suffer loss.

 

That word.....I don't think it means what you think it means.....

 

And I hope you have the best ****ing day ever every damn Sunday right up until 1pm when the players kneel and **** it all up. And I hope it happens until we find a way to make racial equality a thing. 

 

How does that make you feel?

[PleaseBlitz]

I love that every time Trump says some dumb ****, people instinctively want to debate the merits. Does he have the right to say it (sure).  Should he have said it (no). Should the President get held to a higher standard than 'does he technically have the right to do a thing that is harmful and devisive?' (Yes, but Trump never is). 

 

Look, the merits are beside the point here. Trump knows that his base is going to be pissed next week when he once again fails to repeal Obamacare. He's also going to be embarrassed when his candidate in Alabama loses. It's looking like a bad week. So, on top of blaming Mitch MCConnell and Rand and McCain for his failure to get his agenda pushed through, even with control of both houses, he is doing what he always does, picks a target to bully and hopefully change the subject. In this case, it's NFL and the Golden State Warriors. In other words, black people .... but black people that his base can claim they only hate because they are rich, priveleged AND dumb jocks who should stick to sports (ignoring that almost all of these guys went to college and most of Trumps supporters didnt).  Trump doesn't give a **** about the flag, or the country. He's a draft dodger that is using the Presidency for his personal enrichment and to fill the hole in his soul where his father's love should have gone. But he knows he needs to keep his base happy, and he knows they are goona be pissed next week unless he throws them some red meat. He also knows he ****ed up when he said maybe Dreamers shouldnt be deported. 

 

The merits here are pointless. This is pure politics. 

[blueskin]

10 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

I have a hard time believing you would protest anything.

Cool story. You don't need to write a EO to flex your muscles

Ooh.  Sick burn.  

 

You don't know me Crack.  Please avoid the insults.