Trump and his cabinet/buffoonery- Get your bunkers ready!

[Llevron]

9 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

 

Who has been fired for protesting gay marriage?

 

I think people have been fired recently for going to KKK-like rallies however....

 

Yea you missed it way left. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Dan Rather brings it strong.

 

 

 

It's football Sunday, and I have a pit in my stomach, and a sickening sense of deja vu. Who knows what the day will bring?

I do know the source of my disquiet. It is the stench of bigotry as a demagogue stirs the potent cauldron of racial division. I want to say, this is so unnecessary. We have so many other things we should be worrying about. But of course now this is real, and it must be called out. This is an age when no one can be neutral. To remain silent in the face of race-baiting is to be complicit. And I have seen the cost of complicity. It is ugly.

On Friday night, and then in a chain of tweets (what else) President Trump targeted African American athletes for provocation and ridicule. He has called into question their Americanness, as he called into question the Americanness of his predecessor President Obama. Perhaps what is saddest about this moral cowardice is that Mr. Trump may derive some political gain from these attacks amongst his supporters, but he fails in the test of leadership. Big time. For a President to be doing this - pouring gasoline on the embers of racial resentment - is really unspeakable. Instead of trying to reduce the potentially explosive emotions about race, he is trying to exacerbate them for his own gain. 

I have seen this game plan before. My mind is transported across the decades. I hear the adjective "uppity", and much worse. I see the mouths of authority curl with disdain and mutter "what do you think you're doin', boy?" - the last word spit out in disgust. 

I feel time click into rewind, to when African Americans weren't thought of as being "smart" enough to play quarterback, to when there was a "gentlemen's agreement" amongst college basketball coaches to the total number of African American players on the court. Backwards still to all-white teams, and all-white leagues. I remember Jackie Robinson, and a time before someone of his skin color dared to think he could earn a living as an athlete in the United States. 

I know this history. And so does Donald Trump. He understands how salient the trope of the "angry black man" is. It was said of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and other now-revered leaders of the civil rights struggle. It is so ingrained in our history that it can become resonant even in those who say they aren't bigoted. So Mr. Trump plucks at it. He knows that he can use the American flag as a symbol of division and not unity. So he sows that thought. 

I grant that there are many who are offended by players taking a knee during the National Anthem. That is their right, as it is the right of those who protest to have their speech protected. This is how we discuss our differences peacefully in a democracy. But calling out these players as S.O.B.s (but using the actual profane words) who should be fired, that's a pointed attack on our Constitutional rights. And it is summoning the dark shadows of centuries of racial stereotyping. Let's just say I have seen plenty of white S.O.B.s in sports who have been given awards rather than pink slips. 

President Trump is not trying to win over the majority of the American people. He wants to animate his base and bask in its approval. Will his supporters in Congress continue to stand by in tell-tale silence? Will his donors, including some of the owners of professional sports teams? 

We are not a nation of majority bigots. The strident ranks of the intolerant can be overwhelmed by enough people agreeing that this is not who we are, or who we want to be. Mr. Trump's cheers can be drowned out by a chorus of justice.  

And one final thought, we have seen these distractions before. As Mr. Trump dominates the news cycle over race, as he issues bellicose threats to North Korea, one wonders what bombshells may be brewing in the Russia investigation, which seems to be gaining speed and scope.

[Cooked Crack]

6 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Leave it too the Steelers to come up with the best solution to the Anthem controversy. They are staying in their locker room.  This avoids disrespecting the country and allows those who want to protest to send a more appropriate protest (By not having the team on the field).

 

I think people will see the headline and interpret it differently. "These guys aren't even coming out for the anthem! They're disrespecting the people who died for the flag." I think we should just get rid of the anthem in our professional sports.

[Burgold]

6 minutes ago, Bang said:

I think when the term "I am a Nazi" comes up, then all bets are off.

As far as I'm concerned, our Army should shoot them. Nazis are enemies of humanity. We accepted germany's surrender, but the ideology of Nazism and fascism is and always has been an enemy.

Ain't no nuances about being a Nazi. The belief is crystal clear and well documented. ther is no "Nazi Light" or "I'm just in it for the fashion".

Nazi is Nazi, 100%

 

~Bang

And as fair as I try to be... Yes, there are no grays. Nazis are evil. We should never lose sight of that.

[Jumbo]

9 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I'm seeing you compare peaceful protesters who opposing injustice to Nazi Germany while actual American Nazis have killed people this year. (And to be clear, Hitler's Nazis were inspired by our nation's actions here)

 

You already told us who you are.

I get this, and the firm consistent hard nosed manner you address racial issues overall--and support it--- but fwiw from me to you and it's just my take--great buzz (like popeman) doesn't hold to any hard racism/bigotry pov's that i've seen. What soft bigotry (which exist in most everyone to some degree re: various groups) may exist in some his thinking is open to being informed and debated (reasonably) as he has shown. He has a still-open mind and is not a troll or blockhead.

 

buzz and popeman as the kind of people usually on the other side of the policy aisle from the dmes/left that are still more likely to be an ally when basic genuine  decency is involved and less likely to be an adversary. However that kind of potential alliance is hampered by any harsh characterizations of such sensitive nature when they don't fit. i think is useful to discern who should be asked for clarification on what they said  and given more steps in dialogue from the ones you know it's a waste of time to seriously engage (and for me we certainly have some of those here). 

 

 

I am behind on some of the more recent posts, and while I was working on this 17 more were posted so how knows what's up now.

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

[Bozo the kKklown]

9 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

I get this, and the firm consistent hard nosed manner you address racial issues overall--and support it--- but fwiw from me to you and it's just my take--great buzz (like popeman) doesn't hold to any hard racism/bigotry pov's that i've seen. What soft bigotry (which exist in most everyone to some degree re: various groups) may exist in some his thinking is open to being informed and debated (reasonably) as he has shown. He has a still-open mind and is not a troll or blockhead.

 

buzz and popeman as the kind of people usually on the other side of the policy aisle from the dmes/left that are still more likely to be an ally when basic genuine  decency is involved and less likely to be an adversary. However that kind of potential alliance is hampered by any harsh characterizations of such sensitive nature when they don't fit. i think is useful to discern who should be asked for clarification on what they said  and given more steps in dialogue from the ones you know it's a waste of time to seriously engage (and for me we certainly have some of those here). 

 

 

I am behind on some of the more recent posts, and while I was working on this 17 more were posted so how knows what's up now.

 

 

 

I didnt call him a troll or blockhead and do not believe he is.

 

I am putting his words back in his face and that bothers him.

[Llevron]

40 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I did so to make a point about free speech.  I actually referenced the people that peacefully protested.  But because you seem to be confused about where I stand, let me make something clear:

 

I IN NO WAY APPROVE OF OR SUPPORT THE MESSAGE OF THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS AND AM AGAINST EVERYTHING THEY STAND FOR!!!

 

Clear?

 

You can be totally against them and still come off as supportive of their beliefs and to be honest that's how you come off. I understand that you are not. But that's how it comes off sometimes. I think you are just playing devils advocate in some instances which makes it more frustrating.  

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, twa said:

 

Don't think I have supported Trumps comments  or the protesters.

Or big govt

 

The conservative position would be to avoid this situation by all involved.

Good luck with your tummy in the days ahead.

You voted for He's still better than Hillary.  Your voting him in, supports every single action he makes as president.

[LadySkinsFan]

3 hours ago, StillUnknown said:

 

these mother****ers are really this dumb

 

No, it's because CEOs are the authoritarian rulers of their little fiefdoms, and they think that the president should be the absolute ruler. 

 

They are trying to destroy our Republic, pure and simple.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Your voting him in, supports every single action he makes as president.

As does his defending everything Trump says & does. Mouthing the words "I don't like Trump" every three weeks or so doesn't really change that.

[TheGreatBuzz]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

You can be totally against them and still come off as supportive of their beliefs and to be honest that's how you come off. I understand that you are not. But that's how it comes off sometimes. I think you are just playing devils advocate in some instances which makes it more frustrating.  

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

that is the point i was making.  And i believe in this to the core of my soul.  I dont agree with what they say but support them saying it.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

No, it's because CEOs are the authoritarian rulers of their little fiefdoms, and they think that the president should be the absolute ruler. 

 

They are trying to destroy our Republic, pure and simple.

Plenty of good CEOs out there.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

that is the point i was making.  And i believe in this to the core of my soul.  I dont agree with what they say but support them saying it.

That's totally cool. That quote alone in the Nazi thread would have been well-received. Making the analogy in this thread, it's not a shock that what you were trying to say would be misinterpreted.

[Llevron]

40 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I did so to make a point about free speech.  I actually referenced the people that peacefully protested.  But because you seem to be confused about where I stand, let me make something clear:

 

I IN NO WAY APPROVE OF OR SUPPORT THE MESSAGE OF THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS AND AM AGAINST EVERYTHING THEY STAND FOR!!!

 

Clear?

 

You can be totally against them and still come off as supportive of their beliefs and to be honest that's how you come off. I understand that you are not. But that's how it comes off sometimes. I think you are just playing devils advocate in some instances which makes it more frustrating.  

40 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I did so to make a point about free speech.  I actually referenced the people that peacefully protested.  But because you seem to be confused about where I stand, let me make something clear:

 

I IN NO WAY APPROVE OF OR SUPPORT THE MESSAGE OF THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS AND AM AGAINST EVERYTHING THEY STAND FOR!!!

 

Clear?

 

You can be totally against them and still come off as supportive of their beliefs and to be honest that's how you come off. I understand that you are not. But that's how it comes off sometimes. I think you are just playing devils advocate in some instances which makes it more frustrating.  

[StillUnknown]

 

[88Comrade2000]

I am not going to watch the game. I will watch the premiere of Star Trek Discovery and listen to the game on my PC, like I usually do.   I can't be offended either way; unless the Skins stink it up at home.

[Llevron]

8 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

that is the point i was making.  And i believe in this to the core of my soul.  I dont agree with what they say but support them saying it.

 

I'm with you and my bad if I'm off base. I'm just telling you how it comes off sometimes. This ain't really the place for me to go further than that. 

 

Though, I know you defend that right. You are a military man are you Not? I wouldn't respect you if I didn't know you beliebe atleast that. And I sure as he'll wouldn't talk directly too you if I didn't have any respect for you. 

[LadySkinsFan]

The flag and the anthem are SYMBOLS only, they mean nothing, and I personally don't sign the song, or salute the flag because they are symbols. 

 

What's annoying to me is Trump and the Republicans are not respecting nor delivering on their oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign AND domestic. Our Constitution is a living document, it's not a symbol. 

 

Trump should be impeached because he's not upholding his oath of office, and that alone should be grounds for impeachment.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Just now, Llevron said:

 

I'm with you and my bad if I'm off base. I'm just telling you how it comes off sometimes. This ain't really the place for me to go further than that. 

 

Though, I know you defend that right. You are a military man are you Not? I wouldn't respect you if I didn't know you beliebe atleast that. And I sure as he'll wouldn't talk directly too you if I didn't have any respect for you. 

I am.  16 years.

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

Trump is an attention whore. He had to say something really stupid (not like he doesn't do that already) to make sure people keep on saying Trump on the digital platform that will be there forever on Google's servers after he is long gone and 6 feet under. He might not be known for being a good president but he will be remembered regardless. So for Trump, mission accomplished. 

What needs to happen, is that the Trump name is so toxic; it is in the same breath of Hitler, Stalin, etc..   No, Trump hasn't committed atrocities yet, but his name will be though of; in the same vein as those men.   Trump values the brand - Trump.   Well, that name needs to be worth ****. His family will have to change their last names, to avoid the stench and shame that comes with the name Trump.

 

That, taking all his money and him sitting in a jail cell; is what he fears the most.  

[Jumbo]

4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I didnt call him a troll or blockhead and do not believe he is.

 

I am putting his words back in his face and that bothers him.

  

 

 

I didn't say you called him those names. I used those terms to accent my take on him as a poster. 

 

I only intended to make the one comment, but if you're accurately "putting someone's words back in their face"  is a good way to go---but only when done with fidelity. Worth noting that the phrase in quotes suggest an existing attitude of aggression/hostility and if that permeates the approach, it can undermine what could be a more positive outcome. It doesn't hurt or help arguing the topic when dealing with the bigot whose mind is closed, but can definitely limit positive outcomes that might be possible with others.

 

But I don't want to appear to endorse only polite and  passive resistance to the significant levels of racism and other forms of bigotry that permeate our culture/history either. I am far from "passive" on that stuff on a personal level....

 

[Jumbo]

@RonArtest15

 

ty for posting the twitter thread with the flag-handling material---also, this last year or so you've really been doing extra-solid posting in the topic i read--i'm used to deterioration with we longtimers as the norm 

 

not to derail, but personally i "love the military"  but dislike the "militarization" of sports event and wish this society had far less appetite  for ritualistic pledges, prayers, and anthems performed in such profusion as we do, but i am tolerant of it

[Going Commando]

16 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

But seriously, I just want to know what they can do that won't be criticized. 

 

By this president?  Go marching through the streets with tiki torches and Nazi flags chanting about how they hate jews and running over counter protesters.

[blueskin]

You all need to lighten the **** up.

 

Trump is NOT Hitler.  Trump is NOT Stalin.  Trump isn't even Idi Amin.  All of the hysterical caterwauling in the world will not make those the case, just as all the hysterical caterwauling over the last 8 years didn't prevent a black man from sitting in the Oval.  

 

He has his first amendment rights as well.  He stated his opinion in a forum he felt comfortable.  My opinion is close; protest outside of your job.  If you own the shop, fine.  Otherwise, protest out in the public sphere where the 1st amendment safeguards your speech.  The first amendment governs CONGRESS (and by extension, the government) shutting down speech.  Private corporations have more latitude. If your job is oppressive or supporting things you can't countenance, then quit and find something else to do.

 

I am a physician.  I work for a corporation.  If I decided to protest, oh I don't know, puppy neutering by refusing to see my first patients every day, or by refusing to safeguard my (company issued) computer by surfing porn during my patient-contact hours (in the vein of protesting inequality and standing up for my freedom to surf porn in the clinic), how the **** long would it be before I was bounced out of there?? If I protested our billing practices by not turning in my superbills, would I have a job very long?

 

Their kneeling and whatever during the anthem likely won't hurt the product on the field (such as it is), but maybe, just maybe, some of the spending-public will find other avenues for their hard-earn dollars, perhaps start going back to church, or practicing Tai Chi in the park.  Then the bottom line will be hurt by these antics.  And these antics will stop.

 

Again (and this comes from someone who spent a lot of time in college protesting 'the man'), do your ****ing job and save the 'street-fighting man' revolutionary poses for the actual revolutionaries (who tend not to live long).  And that includes traditional practices IN your job, like safeguarding patient information or standing for the ****ing national anthem.