88Comrade2000 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, Hersh said: DT is right. We must honor the courageous patriots that fought and died for our great American Flag. We must honor and respect it and that's why people must not fly the confederate flag anymore. Will the asshole apologize to John Mccain for the comments he made about John being a POW? Will the asshole apologize to the Khans, for the comments he made about them? Their son did die in a U.S. uniform. No, he won't. The moment he dies, he's on the expressway straight to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Are you God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 hour ago, AJ* said: Kneeling, black fist, what's the difference? A protest is a protest. Both gestures are silent and people will read into it what they want. It doesn't matter if you change the physical gesture, their reason for the protest still remains the same. How does disrespecting OUR flag help anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ* Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, blueskin said: And the paying fans can choose not to grace them with the money spent on merchandise, tickets, cable subscriptions, etc. I, as I've said countless times, am a physician. The patient pays fees, either self-pay or from insurance, for my services. If I render service, say, drain an abscess, all they while insulting something they care about, is that not bad service? How will the patient feel if I call them ugly or insult the crucifix/wiccan pendant/hijab they are wearing before i treat their ailment, will they want to come back? Or take their fees elsewhere, despite whether I cured the infection or not. My patients are entitled to my best, including my bedside manner and respect for their culture/practices. Fans ARE entitled. We are entitled to good effort, a good product, a team not run by the Marx brothers. We are entitled to respect being paid to our shared symbols. And we are entitled, if none of that is proffered, to take our hard earned cash elsewhere, without the tut-tutting of the elites. To be brutally honest that's really a dumb comparison as these players are SILENTLY protesting. Silently protesting certainly doesn't mean you hate the country or you're trying to disrespect the men and women who served in uniform. Isn't this what they fought for? When you get right down to it why show respect to a country that doesn't respect you as a human being or your basic human/civil rights? That doesn't make sense to me. Not standing for the anthem is a broad act. It's one where people can't directly tell what you're protesting about like any silent gesture (unless it's openly derogatory). Even if these players tell you what they're protesting about (which they have) people still find a way to go deaf and take it upon themselves to tell them they're insulting veterans, active military, Mom, little old ladies and apple pie even when these athletes have done nothing of the sort. They're simply not standing because they don't think this country is living up to the standards that it preaches. And seeing the way things are I can't say that I disagree. Their financial circumstances aside they should be allowed to do this just like fans can go spend their money elsewhere if they choose. Kneeling in silence hurts NO ONE. It's much better than flinging bottles and rocks at cops don't you think? The overreaction is getting ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, hailmary said: How does disrespecting our flag help anyone? It doesn't...and no one is disrespecting it. Except Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ* Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, hailmary said: How does disrespecting OUR flag help anyone? If they're not spitting on the flag, burning it, or throwing it down and stomping on it they're not disrespecting a damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, TryTheBeal! said: It doesn't...and no one is disrespecting it. Except Trump. Why is it all about Trump now? Only certain Americans can share their opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Yawn...take a drink every time bible-thumping noobs ask rhetorical questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 A five-time draft dodger using veterans as puppets for his effective anti-First Amendment crusade. Can't make this up. 7 minutes ago, hailmary said: How does disrespecting OUR flag help anyone? You know what's more important than the U.S. flag? The U.S. Constitution. 7 minutes ago, hailmary said: How does disrespecting OUR flag help anyone? You know what's more important than the U.S. flag? The U.S. Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, hailmary said: How does disrespecting our flag help anyone? I don’t know, you tell me? It is against the flag code to display the flag flat, and yet it happens nearly every Sunday. Why do you support the disrespect of the flag?! Flag code says that the flag is not to be worn as an item of clithing and yet, people do it all the time. Why do you tolerate people disrespecting the flag?! BTW, kneeling doesn’t disrespect the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, AsburySkinsFan said: I don’t know, you tell me? It is against the flag code to display the flag flat, and yet it happens nearly every Sunday. Why do you support the disrespect of the flag?! Flag code says that the flag is not to be worn as an item of clithing and yet, people do it all the time. Why do you tolerate people disrespecting the flag?! where did I say "I tolerate people disrespecting the flag?" or " I SUPPORT THE DISRESPECT OF THE FLAG?!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, AJ* said: To be brutally honest that's really a dumb comparison as these players are SILENTLY protesting. Silently protesting certainly doesn't mean you hate the country or you're trying to disrespect the men and women who served in uniform. Isn't this what they fought for? When you get right down to it why show respect to a country that doesn't respect you as a human being or your basic human/civil rights? That doesn't make sense to me. Not standing for the anthem is a broad act. It's one where people can't directly tell what you're protesting about like any silent gesture (unless it's openly derogatory). Even if these players tell you what they're protesting about (which they have) people still find a way to go deaf and take it upon themselves to tell them they're insulting veterans, active military, Mom, little old ladies and apple pie even when these athletes have done nothing of the sort. They're simply not standing because they don't think this country is living up to the standards that it preaches. And seeing the way things are I can't say that I disagree. Their financial circumstances aside they should be allowed to do this just like fans can go spend their money elsewhere if they choose. Kneeling in silence hurts NO ONE. It's much better than flinging bottles and rocks at cops don't you think? The overreaction is getting ridiculous. Ah so. So if I say to the wiccan "experiamus" or if I silently make the cross sign with my fingers, would not that be the same? I vehemently disagree with wiccan beliefs, after all. If he/she is offended, the end is the same. It's not a stupid comparison at all. My comment or gesture wouldn't physically hurt either. The fact is, kneeling during the anthem is considered disrespectful to a great many Americans. And it is intended as disrespect. When I raised my fist to the anthem in my younger days, I most certainly meant '**** America'. When I refused to stand for the anthem in my college days, it was because I felt this country should be destroyed due to its sins. And while most of those not standing might not be as extreme as my 22 year old Communist self, those viewing it get the picture: you do not respect the flag. In a way, yes, there is some over-emoting on both sides. I haven't called for anyone to be flayed alive over this, but I have to question the aims of someone who'd go out of their way to show disrespect to the country. And that is what you're doing when you 'protest' the anthem or flag. Kaepernick is a Castro/Che Guevara supporter. It is his right, but it also tells me that he doesn't like the country of his birth. He wants to fundamentally transform it (you don't fundamentally transform something/someone you love). I don't want to live in a socialist utopia anymore than he wants to live in a capitalist one. I too believe that this country doesn't live up to its standards. Who the hell does? The operative question is, does/will it try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 40 minutes ago, blueskin said: And the paying fans can choose not to grace them with the money spent on merchandise, tickets, cable subscriptions, etc. I, as I've said countless times, am a physician. The patient pays fees, either self-pay or from insurance, for my services. If I render service, say, drain an abscess, all they while insulting something they care about, is that not bad service? How will the patient feel if I call them ugly or insult the crucifix/wiccan pendant/hijab they are wearing before i treat their ailment, will they want to come back? Or take their fees elsewhere, despite whether I cured the infection or not. My patients are entitled to my best, including my bedside manner and respect for their culture/practices. Fans ARE entitled. We are entitled to good effort, a good product, a team not run by the Marx brothers. We are entitled to respect being paid to our shared symbols. And we are entitled, if none of that is proffered, to take our hard earned cash elsewhere, without the tut-tutting of the elites. The ONLY thing fans are entitled to is ON THE FIELD PERFORMANCE. If you want to take your money elsewhere then by all means do so. But you do not get to tell these men how to live their lives, that’s an entitlement you do NOT get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Yawn...take a drink every time bible-thumping noobs ask rhetorical questions. wow, such an inoffensive statement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ* Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: Will the asshole apologize to John Mccain for the comments he made about John being a POW? Will the asshole apologize to the Khans, for the comments he made about them? Their son did die in a U.S. uniform. No, he won't. The moment he dies, he's on the expressway straight to hell. No, you got it all wrong. When a rich, spoiled, entitled piece of **** mocks a POW because he was captured it's "ok....because he's not being politically correct. It's all good. Muslims don't count either. Muslims in the military get to see their religion demonized and called to be banned by a piece of **** who's never served a day in his life. All that "Freedom of Religion" stuff they fight for is just lip service really. And meanwhile the hypocritical people who go on about "rah rah support the troops and veterans" turn a blind eye to this and cheer the spoiled, entitled piece of **** who's never served a day in his life while demonizing football players for silently protesting because football players are supposed to be held to a higher standard than the President of the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, AsburySkinsFan said: The ONLY thing fans are entitled to is ON THE FIELD PERFORMANCE. If you want to take your money elsewhere then by all means do so. But you do not get to tell these men how to live their lives, that’s an entitlement you do NOT get. But their protest is ON THE FIELD. If they want to sit on their heads in the living rooms during the anthem, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, hailmary said: where did I say "I tolerate people disrespecting the flag?" or " I SUPPORT THE DISRESPECT OF THE FLAG?!" Have you EVER objected to the NFL’s on field displays of the American flag? Have you EVER objected to American flag clothing? If not then it’s shamefuk that you would be so passive while people are openly disrespecting the flag so blatantly. Or else your objection is hypocritical. 2 minutes ago, blueskin said: wow, such an inoffensive statement! Thicker skin and a backbone, God gave you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 27 minutes ago, hailmary said: How does disrespecting our flag help anyone? You realize that the reaction you see today is because Trump called out black athletes at a rally in Alabama on Friday right? From Stephen Curry to Kaeprnick, this White Supremacist president has done everything in his power to disrespect black players. When black players are disrespected like that by a White supremacist president, what do you want them to do? Pretend like nothing happened? Give me a ****ing break. Now, why do I call him a White supremacist? See Charlottesville. Highly reluctant to call out the White Supremacists. When a black athlete does anything, his reaction is rather quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said: A five-time draft dodger using veterans as puppets for his effective anti-First Amendment crusade. Can't make this up. You know what's more important than the U.S. flag? The U.S. Constitution. You know what's more important than the U.S. flag? The U.S. Constitution. And what does the flag represent, pray tell? Symbols are what we are talking about, not brightly coloured strips of cloth. It's like immersing the crucifix in urine. The 'artist' wasn't immersing the Church in urine literally, but symbolically. But at least they aren't setting fire to the flag. yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, blueskin said: But their protest is ON THE FIELD. If they want to sit on their heads in the living rooms during the anthem, fine. No sir, they are on the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Seems to me we are having a very silly argument that is intentionally ignoring the point. What Trump and some others seem to be arguing is that if NFL owners are offended they have the right to suspend or fire players for kneeling during the singing of the Star Spangled Banner. NFL Owners have said they do not have a problem with players exercising their First Amendment rights during the pregame ceremonies. NFL League Roger Goodell has said he and the league supports the rights of players to exercise their First Amendment rights. That makes the entire Trump argument not only moot, but stupid. So what the Trump supporter and some Conservatives are arguing is that NFL players have no rights to exercise because they don't like the statement they are making. It's not about it being done in opposition to the owners' will because the owners have said they're okay with it. It's not in opposition to the League's will because the league says it's okay with it. That means it isn't a workplace complaint that Trump is making. It is a complaint against the Constitution. It is a complaint that people oughtn't have the right to voice displeasure with government or civic abuses. The other preposterous complaint that I read in this is that the President of the United States doesn't represent the government and therefore can make whatever statements or even threats he wants under First Amendment protection. I don't even know where to start with that one. It's just too ridiculous to even address. Trump is the head of our government. He should not use his influence to try to get people fired. It's not a wrong only if he signs an Executive Order or a bill into law. It is a wrong when he presses the weight and prestige of the Oval Office against individuals who are only guilty of expressing a political opinion he opposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Have you EVER objected to the NFL’s on field displays of the American flag? Have you EVER objected to American flag clothing? If not then it’s shamefuk that you would be so passive while people are openly disrespecting the flag so blatantly. Or else your objection is hypocritical. Thicker skin and a backbone, God gave you both. You keep ASSUMING things while saying things I have never said PLEASE STOP IT!!! TY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, blueskin said: And what does the flag represent, pray tell? Symbols are what we are talking about, not brightly coloured strips of cloth. It's like immersing the crucifix in urine. The 'artist' wasn't immersing the Church in urine literally, but symbolically. But at least they aren't setting fire to the flag. yet. Kneeling for the anthem without fear of repercussion represents the Constitution more so than the flag itself. And also, the players never said they hate American or that they hate the military, that's just nonsense that lazy people (not saying you specifically) came up with to justify their misguided opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Have you EVER objected to the NFL’s on field displays of the American flag? Have you EVER objected to American flag clothing? If not then it’s shamefuk that you would be so passive while people are openly disrespecting the flag so blatantly. Or else your objection is hypocritical. Thicker skin and a backbone, God gave you both. that was sarcasm, friend. I couldn't care less if TrytheBeal derides bible thumpers or not. But I'm holding up a mirror again. Log in your own eye and so forth TrytheBeal- nothing personal. Making observations only. I believe you were team Kirk during the Griffin wars. I was team Griffin. You were right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, hailmary said: You keep ASSUMING things while saying things I have never said PLEASE STOP IT!!! TY I specifically asked you two questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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