Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, No Excuses said: It’s amazing how you’ve come to rationalize behavior that is symbolic of third world authoritarians. Joe Arpaio. Scooter Libby. Dinesh D’Souza. He’s basically saying that if you are a public figure and support my politics, you can commit crimes and get away with it. What the **** is wrong with some of you. None of this is normal by any bipartisan standard. It's a Presidential Pardon. For all of my life I've heard folks feign outrage over these. I'm not rationalizing, I realize it for what it is. #whataboutism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Sorry man. I dont buy that at all. Nobody gives a **** about Dinesh Dsouza. They just hate everything Trump. This is just the latest thing to be mad about. You know, I remember when it was ok to criticize people for doing stuff that is obviously wrong. Now when people criticize Trump for pardoning racist criminals who act like assholes it's, "People just want to get mad at Trump" or when people criticize Roseanne for being a racist conspiracy theorist it's "liberals are hypocritical douchebags". Awesome that the "conservative" party has become the party of obviously wrong behavior and that they've managed to create a culture where people stand up for said behavior because the real enemy are the liberals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: You know, I remember when it was ok to criticize people for doing stuff that is obviously wrong. Now when people criticize Trump for pardoning racist criminals who act like assholes it's, "People just want to get mad at Trump" or when people criticize Roseanne for being a racist conspiracy theorist it's "liberals are hypocritical douchebags". Awesome that the "conservative" party has become the party of obviously wrong behavior and that they've managed to create a culture where people stand up for said behavior. As I said, this **** goes on under every President. It's a shame people cant see beyond their outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Kilmer17 said: As I said, this **** goes on under every President. It's a shame people cant see beyond their outrage. I've been critical of Clinton and Obama pardons on here as well. We're at a whole new level with Trump though. This is not business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said: As I said, this **** goes on under every President. It's a shame people cant see beyond their outrage. Who did Obama and GWB pardon that would come even remotely close to Arpaio, Libby and D’Souza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Surprised over the possible Stewart pardon though. I thought they didn't like each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 by whatever name, he is pardoning a guy who committed election fraud. How this sits with his base is beyond me, seeing as how that used to be such a big deal to them.. but then he hates muslims so it doesn't matter what he actually did to unravel the fabric of this country, he must be a-ok. This in and of itself is extremely troubling on it's own, the subsequent pardoning of Trump for pardoning a guy who worked to weaken the country cements that, and is another piece of evidence in my mind where their loyalties lie. It isn't with country. And this is a problem. And if people 'don't care', what happens to those problems? too many people didn't care. and half our electorate showed up, and now we have a guy who is tearing at everything this country stands for, and pushing hatred and fear. (and, i'd bet, trying to rig his next election and then keep the power even beyond. i know, i know.. but hey,, he said it, not me. Twice.) So enough with the 'nobody cares". THAT is the problem. People NEED to care when scoundrels and traitors abuse our system and the good faith it requires. and they need to care when they are pardoned and returned to society to do t again. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Here is a list of the Obama pardons. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Barack_Obama And here is GWBs list. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_George_W._Bush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Who did Obama and GWB pardon that would come even remotely close to Arpaio, Libby and D’Souza? I dont care about any of them. But I'm sure some on the right would point to Chelsey Manning and the Puerto Rican independence bombing guy. Clintons list is the most egregious though. Rich, McDougal, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Surprised over the possible Stewart pardon though. I thought they didn't like each other. She was prosecuted by Comey and she was convicted of lying to the FBI, a charge many of his campaign staff are facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, No Excuses said: She was prosecuted by Comey and she was convicted of lying to the FBI, a charge many of his campaign staff are facing. Wink wink right? I have no doubt that's exactly what that is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 #FreeMartha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Kilmer17 said: Wink wink right? I have no doubt that's exactly what that is all about. It’s not even a question. Trump is a cartoonish mafia don. Except he got elected President. You couldn’t write a worse movie script yet here we are living in this reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: I dont care about any of them. But I'm sure some on the right would point to Chelsey Manning and the Puerto Rican independence bombing guy. Clintons list is the most egregious though. Rich, McDougal, etc. First, I've never liked many of the pardons. Second, there has been a fundamental difference in that most of those pardons were done as people left office. They were done with the understanding that their would be a political price to pay. Not done to gain advantages (whether legally in the course of an investigation to minimize people's willingness to testify against him or to excite the base). The Rich and McDougal pardons were especially egregious and got lots of attention (which isn't consistent with the idea that people just get mad to get mad about Trump), but they were also fundamentally different than what Trump is doing and so aren't really comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Trump is exposing all of the deep problems we have with the way our Govt rules and traditions are written and enforced. It's obvious to me that hes letting people know he will pardon them, but yet, he has the absolute authority to do that without any oversight. So what should be done? 2 minutes ago, PeterMP said: First, I've never liked many of the pardons. Second, there has been a fundamental difference in that most of those pardons were done as people left office. They were done with the understanding that their would be a political price to pay. Not done to gain advantages (whether legally in the course of an investigation to minimize people's willingness to testify against him or to excite the base). The Rich and McDougal pardons were especially egregious and got lots of attention (which isn't consistent with the idea that people just get mad to get mad about Trump), but they were also fundamentally different than what Trump is doing and so aren't really comparable. I think its WORSE to do them as you are leaving because there is no price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, No Excuses said: What the **** is wrong with some of you. None of this is normal by any bipartisan standard. Conservative leaning fence sitters don't think all of the bad **** Trump is doing effects them. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Trump is exposing all of the deep problems we have with the way our Govt rules and traditions are written and enforced. It's obvious to me that hes letting people know he will pardon them, but yet, he has the absolute authority to do that without any oversight. So what should be done? I think its WORSE to do them as you are leaving because there is no price to pay. Shorter term, Trump and Republicans need to lose. Longer term, we need to think about changing the ability of the President to pardon. But Trump's doing it because there is no price to pay now. It benefits him NOW. It isn't something to throw to a friend or family member on the way out the door. There's a difference between, well this person that isn't really much of a threat to society, had spent some time in jail, and is my friend so I'm going to pardon them on the way out the door. And, pardoning this person is going to help me politically or help me in terms of protecting from legal prosecution. The first is bad. The second is worse. To my knowledge, the pardon has never been used as a political tool the way Trump is using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I've never really understood the whole presidential pardon overrules the entirety of the justice system that convicted this person. too much like a king. if new evidence exonerates a person, then I suppose he should be able to direct justice to act on righting the wrong and expediting release, but just being able to pardon willy-nilly with no regard for the crime.. never has set too well with me. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 At least Bush 43 got one right. In 2008. Issac Robert Toussie (False statements to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, mail fraud) George W. Bush revoked his pardon after discovering Issac Robert Toussie's father donated US$28,500 to the Republican Party in April. I don't see Trump doing anything like that. It was a mistake of Ford pardoning Nixon, and Pelosi not holding to account the traitors who lied and started the Iraq war instead of keeping the pedal on Afghanistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 It's in the Constitution though. No way it ever goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 While I hate these kind of pardons and hated it when Mcdougal and Rich got pardoned, what really worries me is that this is a nod to his allies and cronies under investigation and a way for him to ‘legally’ obstruct current investigations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, visionary said: While I hate these kind of pardons and hated it when Mcdougal and Rich got pardoned, what really worries me is that this is a nod to his allies and cronies under investigation and a way for him to ‘legally’ obstruct current investigations. This is the important piece. I'd argue that people should be more upset about the possibility of Stewart rather than Dsouza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Wow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isifhan Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Could the next President rescind/revoke a pardon by a former President once the new President is in office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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