blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, Burgold said: Let's not have people questioning each other's faith. I realize he started it by questioning your credentials... or maybe I started it with my talk of graven idols (which I thought was a rather clever point), but let's delve into the truth of each other's faith. At least not in this thread. It might be fun in a different thread that's not about government. In other words, let's separate church and state lol Agreed. I once dabbled in Judaism. I deeply respect your faith, and I am currently reading the Tanakh. I will admit, the Torah gets, well, somewhat dry. I try to read the Bible through the year, and have managed to read it through several times. See, I'm no longer a godless Communist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 I personally have no issue with anyone standing, sitting, squatting, kneeling, or doing the windmill during the anthem. I'm impressed with what KP has done, I really just looked at him as another football player saying they wanted change while never doing anything about it but that's not the case with KP. He's stepped up nicely and seems to have dedicated himself to the cause, good for him. I do think that if kneeling or staying in the locker room becomes the norm for all teams then eventually the message will get lost, the general public doesn't have much of an attention span, once something becomes part of the norm or status quo it no longer gets as much attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Now once again you’re changing the topic. You said to me specifically, “I won't sit and be lectured to on Christian beliefs by people who might possibly not be Christians.“ I laid out some of my Christian bonafides, you then move the goalposts. Am I qualified to discuss the Christian faith with you or not? Bona fides that I had no knowledge of, and I apologize if I offended. Respect should be offered to the clergy, even if you vehemently disagree with them. Still, I was a bit irritated by the verse quoted to me, as it seemed to me a sly way of questioning MY faith. , Still, if we're going to be all legalistic, seeing that you, a pastor and worker for Christ, follow a team that plays on Sundays, and most likely purchase team gear, thus supporting activities that go on during the Christian sabbath, don't you think trying to check me on my own support of football takes more than a little chutzpah?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, jschuck12001 said: I personally have no issue with anyone standing, sitting, squatting, kneeling, or doing the windmill during the anthem. I'm impressed with what KP has done, I really just looked at him as another football player saying they wanted change while never doing anything about it but that's not the case with KP. He's stepped up nicely and seems to have dedicated himself to the cause, good for him. I do think that if kneeling or staying in the locker room becomes the norm for all teams then eventually the message will get lost, the general public doesn't have much of an attention span, once something becomes part of the norm or status quo it no longer gets as much attention. This is kind of unrelated, but I think it touches on something. I once was host of a wonderful little science, health, and tech radio program. I was discussing Curiosity with some NASA folks and Mars experts and somehow we got to the issue of the Moon landing. Both the NASA folk and the Mars scientist agreed that we could not send a man to the Moon today. I asked how that could be? Our technology couldn't possibly have gone backwards. They answered it was about will. There was insufficient will to coordinate the resources to pull off such a mammoth mission. I thought about that and it made me a little sad... a little frustrated. When we talk about social change it is also a question of will. Do we have the resources, patience, emotional energy and fortitude to create a positive change. Addressing something big takes a lot of energy, a lot of time, the ability to make mistakes and the patience and willingness to correct them until you get closer to the desired end goal. The first step is raising attention. Without attention there is no will. However, the fire of protests don't burn very long. Protests must lead to action and people must see change. People must feel invested into that change. We can get a man to the Moon, but only if we really want to and work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 On 9/16/2017 at 1:49 PM, Cooked Crack said: Nah, that was a passionate handshake. I speak from experience. That's private. I mean, it's ok. We all do it. We don't need to be talking about it on here though. I bet Donnie was giving himself quite the passionate handshake while he was watching those Russian hookers pee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, blueskin said: Bona fides that I had no knowledge of, and I apologize if I offended. Respect should be offered to the clergy, even if you vehemently disagree with them. Still, I was a bit irritated by the verse quoted to me, as it seemed to me a sly way of questioning MY faith. , Still, if we're going to be all legalistic, seeing that you, a pastor and worker for Christ, follow a team that plays on Sundays, and most likely purchase team gear, thus supporting activities that go on during the Christian sabbath, don't you think trying to check me on my own support of football takes more than a little chutzpah?? Trust me, you did NOT offend. I wasn’t questioning your faith I’m simply pointing out apparent contradictions between you apparent convictions. Trust me, I’m one of the least legalistic you’ll find, it does appear though that with your insistence on proper forms of protest and proper respect for a national flag that you’re insisting on legalistic forms of national observance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 14 minutes ago, blueskin said: My being a doctor has little bearing here as well. One would never know it from the number of times you've brought it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 It is embarrassing that the Redskins are one of 5 teams that hasn't released a statement yet. Danny is such a coward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, PleaseBlitz said: It is embarrassing that the Redskins are one of 5 teams that hasn't released a statement yet. Danny is such a coward. He's a Trump supporter in a city that would be very angry with him if he sided himself with Trump. I suspect he is torn. Then again, Kraft is also a Trump supporter and personal friend and he spoke out. So yes, cowardice is a fair charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, AsburySkinsFan said: Trust me, you did NOT offend. I wasn’t questioning your faith I’m simply pointing out apparent contradictions between you apparent convictions. Trust me, I’m one of the least legalistic you’ll find, it does appear though that with your insistence on proper forms of protest and proper respect for a national flag that you’re insisting on legalistic forms of national observance. Naw homie. There are no apparent contradictions here. Legalistic forms of national observance? I am not insisting on anything that is proscribed by (my understanding) the Law, nor by the Gospel, nor in the Epistles. Paul preached on showing respect to the powers God has placed you under, and honoring those who had the authority in this life. Our Lord said 'render unto Caesar..' If law and custom prescribe a certain way to honor the nation, how am I violating my faith by adhering to it? So long as it is not requiring me to worship foreign gods adhere to other non-Christian creeds??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins59 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said: It is embarrassing that the Redskins are one of 5 teams that hasn't released a statement yet. Danny is such a coward. It just means that douchebags are attracted to douchebags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, techboy said: One would never know it from the number of times you've brought it up. guilty as charged. Forgive me, I worked hard to earn the degree, and I experienced many setbacks on the journey. Should I not be proud? Of course, it wasn't meant as a brag or boast, just as information on where I'm coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Kneeling to our flag during our National Anthem does nothing but further divide our country, these actions do nothing to unite or fix any issue at hand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just to illistarate the bull**** 24 minutes ago, blueskin said: Wait, where did we get on the pledge of alliegance? They don't recite that at any games I know of. I won't sit and be lectured to on Christian beliefs by people who might possibly not be Christians. Anyone can go to Biblehub and pull out a quotation. Here we have a cat come on here, start and argument about something he obviously has very little understanding over and at the same time play holier than thou dropping his religion all over the place. He is countered with the same talk and says "you ain't even religious bro" and ends it there. 23 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: You want my Christian resume? I’ll show you my clergy robe if you’d like, how about my Bacherlor’s Degree in Religious Studies from a Conservative Baptist University. Or how about my Masters of Divinity from a leading seminary. Or the 20 years I spent in pulpit ministry. Does that qualify me to have a discussion about Christianity with you? But he was talking to the wrong guy. And his response to learning this? 20 minutes ago, blueskin said: And? His use of Our Lord's (well, mine. Your cousin's words) words is inappropriate in this setting. He is not behaving as a pastor, but as a combatant in a friendly argument. My being a doctor has little bearing here as well. "So what it doesn't matter we ain't talking about religion anyway Bull**** homie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Burgold said: He's a Trump supporter in a city that would be very angry with him if he sided himself with Trump. I suspect he is torn. Then again, Kraft is also a Trump supporter and personal friend and he spoke out. So yes, cowardice is a fair charge. Thank you. ****, release a non-statement like the Jets owner did (not that that was respectable, also a huge Trump donor), but doing nothing is even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 hour ago, blueskin said: guilty as charged. Forgive me, I worked hard to earn the degree, and I experienced many setbacks on the journey. Should I not be proud? Of course, it wasn't meant as a brag or boast, just as information on where I'm coming from. Your allowed to be proud of your accomplishments. You should be. Any long time ESer will tell you that I talk too much about my books and other accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, blueskin said: Naw homie. There are no apparent contradictions here. Legalistic forms of national observance? I am not insisting on anything that is proscribed by (my understanding) the Law, nor by the Gospel, nor in the Epistles. Paul preached on showing respect to the powers God has placed you under, and honoring those who had the authority in this life. Our Lord said 'render unto Caesar..' If law and custom prescribe a certain way to honor the nation, how am I violating my faith by adhering to it? So long as it is not requiring me to worship foreign gods adhere to other non-Christian creeds??? Paul and Jesus spoke about acknowledging governmental authority, that does not mean the same thing as honoring or pledging allegiance to the same. This is especially apparent in the Apocalypse from John that describes that same Roman government as a Great Whore of Babylon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 How does whining about people expressing their constitutional rights (especially without hurting anyone or threatening anyone) that others fought and died to protect help anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, Llevron said: Just to illistarate the bull**** Here we have a cat come on here, start and argument about something he obviously has very little understanding over and at the same time play holier than thou dropping his religion all over the place. He is countered with the same talk and says "you ain't even religious bro" and ends it there. But he was talking to the wrong guy. And his response to learning this? "So what it doesn't matter we ain't talking about religion anyway Bull**** homie Look man. You are mistating my words. ANd I did offer an apology. And if AsburySkins wants to talk religion with me, we can do so any day of the week. and twice on sundays. I don't hold myself up as anything but a layman. I'm down to learn about the faith that saved me from anyone with something to teach. But I truly didn't know he was a pastor, and he truly did come at me in a way that was not helpful. Pastor or not, it wasn't helpful. Wasn't edifying, wasn't gentle, wasn't pastoral. But was judgemental. And as we weren't discussing religion in particular (though God is always present in my thoughts)... Yes, I can (and have) curse too. I never said I was a saint, just you all in the Eternal Sarcasm Brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, visionary said: How does whining about people expressing their constitutional rights (especially without hurting anyone or threatening anyone) that others fought and died to protect help anything? Post of the day right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Paul and Jesus spoke about acknowledging governmental authority, that does not mean the same thing as honoring or pledging allegiance to the same. This is especially apparent in the Apocalypse from John that describes that same Roman government as a Great Whore of Babylon. Ah, so as a Pastor, it is your stance that we shouldn't stand for the anthem or salute the flag? I know the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that. I'll pray on it. But I just don't see your point at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 I do think there had been some interesting discussion, but some posts...come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hailmary Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, blueskin said: Ah, so as a Pastor, it is your stance that we shouldn't stand for the anthem or salute the flag? I know the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that. I'll pray on it. But I just don't see your point at all. The better question to AsburySkinsFan, does he kneel during the Anthem to our flag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Just now, blueskin said: Ah, so as a Pastor, it is your stance that we shouldn't stand for the anthem or salute the flag? I know the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that. I'll pray on it. But I just don't see your point at all. I have a close affinity with Quaker/Mennonite/Amish view of the relationship between the faithful and the State. For the record, I no longer serve as a pastor. I stepped out of that ministry role a couple years ago. But while serving as pastor I did not celebrate national holidays, I even refused Menorial Day and Veterans Day observances. We did not sing civic hymns nor did we recite the pledge. Also for the record I’m a US Army veteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueskin Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: I have a close affinity with Quaker/Mennonite/Amish view of the relationship between the faithful and the State. For the record, I no longer serve as a pastor. I stepped out of that ministry role a couple years ago. But while serving as pastor I did not celebrate national holidays, I even refused Menorial Day and Veterans Day observances. We did not sing civic hymns nor did we recite the pledge. Also for the record I’m a US Army veteran. Okay, well I'm not Quaker/Mennonite/Amish. I'm Anglican, if you want to pin me down denominationally. Though I mostly ascribe to evangelical-free more than anything. My view of relationship between state and faithful isn't so far off yours. And I'm relying on Grace, not works, when it comes to my sabbath observance. I'm here, on a Sunday, with my family. But I still dislike the protests towards the flag. and thanks for your service, both to the nation and the Kingdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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