Ghost of Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I can't believe that's true. That shocks me. But then when I really stop to think about it, 2012 is the only good season we've had post Vinny. Scratch that--only season that wasn't a fresh debacle. So now I get it. This franchise reminds of the history of Russia. Things were awful under the autocracy of the Czars. They made a change and ended up with leftist dictatorships, and then things got worse. So then they made another change, ended up with a kleptocracy, and things managed to get even worse. I'm just trying to figure out where the Redskins are in that continuum of their history of awful government leading to vast human misery and suffering. I'm leaning towards a period in the 1200s known as "The Tatar Yoke" I greatly appreciate the introduction of Russian history into the thread, I would make urge a few corrective considerations to your assessment. If you want to locate an analog in that history, I'd point to the Troubles. Good news, because a stable dynasty is coming soon! For one, while Russia as the dominant part of the Soviet Union had some clear triumphs in national glory, technology and science, Putin outmaneuvered his kleptocrat sponsors and is in clear control of the country. To the extent Russia seems spiritually and morally (though obviously they're trying to reverse that long trend) that is the end product of Communist rule. Life under the Romanovs was steadily improving after the abolition of serfdom. There's a weird human psychosocial pattern of pushing harder to topple an existing order, even as reforms or social upheavals bring them closer to their purported goals. Once the "Demons" ol' Fyodor mentioned had begun to hold sway in (or infect) the body politic, the Bolshevik slaughter and enslavement of the Russian people seemed pretty well on its way (not to argue the inevitability of a particular historical development.) Russia is definitely better off now than the post-USSR collapse interregnum, the rule of the Tsars was better than the Bolsheviks because for all the political banishments to Siberia and relative poverty, their people had not been drained of their vitality and their self-belief. Too bad Napoleon didn't hold his horses in Smolensk for a year. That was probably the best hope for a moderate constitutional monarchy to preempt the coming tumults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Good post. The greatest danger is always the coming apathy, when people stop caring about you as an organization you are just done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Good post. The greatest danger is always the coming apathy, when people stop caring about you as an organization you are just done. Exactly. We will know the team is in serious trouble when Dan removes 20,000 seats from the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Exactly. We will know the team is in serious trouble when Dad removes 20,000 seats from the stadium. he couldn't even do that right he left the obstructed view seats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG2004 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I applaud this thread! I like Griffin, but I want to win. I'm excited about football minds making better football decisions but what I hate here is our organization is making RGIII the SCAPEGOAT for all things wrong with the Redskins. If Garcon makes a catch in game 1 - would we really be in the dumpster fire of the World against a QB??? I don't care who they start but give them a freakin season to sort it out - not this teeter totter back and forth can't make up my mind garbage. One thing is certain for me....Jay is not my cup of tea for a head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I applaud this thread! I like Griffin, but I want to win. I'm excited about football minds making better football decisions but what I hate here is our organization is making RGIII the SCAPEGOAT for all things wrong with the Redskins. If Garcon makes a catch in game 1 - would we really be in the dumpster fire of the World against a QB??? I don't care who they start but give them a freakin season to sort it out - not this teeter totter back and forth can't make up my mind garbage. One thing is certain for me....Jay is not my cup of tea for a head coach. Well-stated. Well-spoken. Well-said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettstr Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I beleive The Be Right started when a coach was hired that had No level of success in the NFL. Did not do Boy wonders for any QB known to man. Whether or not Snyder endorsed the deal for Gruden, it all lays on the hands of the administrations as a whole. Gruden was sold as the next good caoch(not eeven) to the organization as well as the fanbase. There is No Eveidence that he has a clue. He was suppose to fix RG,. Not put him in Pergatory like him, Gruden was never a good QB a second and 3rd tier coach for men not good enough for the NFL. Of all the awards and championships he won, how many of those [players, especially QB's made it to the NFL. NONE. If I were leading, and I am not Thank GOD, I would sit RG and tell him you will never have to run this mans offense. Sit tight for the next guru and progressive coach to be hired when I fire Gruden, add an interim or replacement and run him out of town. So create your signs....Gruden must Go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 brettstr, Your post is a bit premature and may be unfair to Jay. We'll find out if he made the right choices and if he can be the leader, teacher, and strategist this team needs. The questions aren't settled yet. I think these moves put him on notice, but the truth is he was on notice before he did this so what the hell. It'd be great if Jay worked out and I don't dismiss as irrelevant that Gruden had been successful on several levels before he got to the 'skins. That speaks well of him. He did as well as he could with all his chances so far... minus his rookie season here. Jay has made his choice. It was the choice he seemed to want all along. He just needs to be right about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Russia is definitely better off now than the post-USSR collapse interregnum, the rule of the Tsars was better than the Bolsheviks because for all the political banishments to Siberia and relative poverty, their people had not been drained of their vitality and their self-belief. I realize now this could be a fun tangent. Agreed, things are better now for Russians than they were in the 90's. They were horrible then. Though they're teetering on the brink of an economic depression, they are involved in a war in Ukraine that's made them a pariah state, and their is some worry that their demographic recovery isn't going to sustain itself because of a spike in the mortality rate to start the year. You do seem to be agreeing with me that the progression goes Czars > Soviets > Post Soviet "Democracy. But you've added in: Post Soviet Democracy < Putin. I think that's accurate. Although I don't think it's accurate to say Putin outmaneuvered the Kleptocrats and is independent of their influence. More accurate would be to say Putin is the country's lead kleptocrat. Let's bring this back to the Redskins, and why I think we've been in the period of our Tatar Yoke since Snyder bought the team. On the one hand, there has been widespread misery, torture, suffering, and the demographic ravaging of the fan base. We are bilked of our wealth by an ownership that's been exacting tribute without even providing the pretense of reward or service in return. BUT, with the hiring of Scot McCloughan, we're experiencing some tangible signs of progress in the form of the establishment of civil infrastructure. For example, drafting good talent for the offensive and defensive lines compares to the establishment of a currency, census, and a postal service. And phrases/concepts like "good tackling in the secondary" could in fact be considered loanwords from our foreign overlords just like how the Tatars gave the Russians their words for money and merchandise and treasury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 brettstr, Your post is a bit premature and may be unfair to Jay. We'll find out if he made the right choices and if he can be the leader, teacher, and strategist this team needs. The questions aren't settled yet. I had to stop reading that post. The grammar and punctuation was driving me crazy. They're was no way I could read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 How to be right about things noone else believes or wants to hear http://es.redskins.com/topic/349015-we-need-to-draft-2-qbs/ http://es.redskins.com/topic/376261-the-subordination-excuse/?fromsearch=1 http://es.redskins.com/topic/375020-brees-culpepper-and-rg3-potential-and-perils/?fromsearch=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 How to be right about things noone else believes or wants to hear http://es.redskins.com/topic/349015-we-need-to-draft-2-qbs/ http://es.redskins.com/topic/376261-the-subordination-excuse/?fromsearch=1 http://es.redskins.com/topic/375020-brees-culpepper-and-rg3-potential-and-perils/?fromsearch=1 Stealing my act but you have links! You're one of dem dere "smart in two forums" guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 On the one hand, there has been widespread misery, torture, suffering, and the demographic ravaging of the fan base. We are bilked of our wealth by an ownership that's been exacting tribute without even providing the pretense of reward or service in return. BUT, with the hiring of Scot McCloughan, we're experiencing some tangible signs of progress in the form of the establishment of civil infrastructure. (Lots of good stuff) Highly,impressive, steve. Ill respond a bit later to the direct Russian questions but you built a truly great case for your historical analogue. You always had an intellectual and conscientious approach tp football but in the last couple years you've really demonstrated grasp of things beyond the sport. I can't really argue it either but as always there is that hope that after tyrants,pretenders and usurpers in the forms of Zorn, Shanny, Vinny and sadly, Dan, the invasion of our franchise's territory by our Poland (Baltimore) that we we will look back at Scott the Great as someone who drags us into legitimate intercourse with the modern football organizational world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemocystem Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Here's where i get so lost. I'm not ok with losing, but i can cope with it. It's better when you seem to have a plan, & the stones to follow through with it. We see some of that, so my reactions to piss-poor management are less herky-jerky than they would have been in the past. I can...surprisingly...deal juuuust fine with drama too. The key is, DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO SENSATIONALIST REPORTING!" It's that simple....none of it matters...watch the games, & focus on who is performing well, & who isn't. The problem for me is that i cannot, short of switching allegiances, become removed from the muck, & the mire that so describes our fan base. No matter what i do, a conversation always winds up as a rediscovery of all things calamitous in Redskins history, & how our fans react, & how i put up with them. Unfortunately...there's no such thing as being a Redskins fan, & also being able to distance oneself from the fan base. It just can't be done unless you do your thing away from society, hidden in a broom closet like some skeleton you wish to hide from all to see. The media feeds on the fan reaction, but people are either too stubborn, or too stupid to realize it. Everyone wants to blame a player, or a coach, or a situation on the circus, but if the fans can't come clean, & accept their role in the circus....then even winning won't cure that. I could easily see us winning, & our fans being just as petty, & arbitrary on their assumptions of reality, & being every bit the laughing stock. & we would still have to live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Nemo, Great point. I made a similar post in the "sources" thread. Stop retweeting, stop watching, stop engaging it. To a large extent the sports media has not been dealt the blow to it's legitimacy that its counterparts in traditional media have been, except ad revenue. We're being manipulated by a social institution which is barely independent from what it covers and is intoxicated with its power to manipulate the masses of sports fans. Rob it of that power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMUSkins Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Lesson learned: never attack Russia in the Fall... Winter is coming. Oh, and I agree Vinny benefited from having Gibbs around. In the end, I say keep the faith... Our FO could be right. What other option do we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins4eva Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 While I greatly respect the poster who started this thread, I have to say, what over Snyder's tenure makes you think this will end in anything other than complete disappointment and disarray and be anything other than a total cluster ****? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjbrown Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I don't post very often but I read this site almost everyday. I think a posted a little more back when it was the Yahoo Board (at least I think that's what is was- about 2002). You hit the nail on the head. When I heard this news of switching back, again. I just said I am just tired of the circus. I'm tired of stuff like: the QB getting pounded, the coach leaves him, in, no max protect, concussion, then new QB for the rest for the year. Then Cousins does ok, gets hurt, or he does ok, but we waste 3 picks and a potential superstar. RGII is let go. Does well in Dallas. We go 9-7 and 10-6 a few years then the bottom again. Ravens, Philli, Dallas or the Giants win a bowl. We get a new coach and it starts again. I'm really tired of this .... I go back to the old days at RFK an Allen. This circus is pathetic. If RGIII was your guy then he's your guy. You knew he was not a drop back passer when you drafted him, if you wanted that why draft him. How could you not have a qb coach last year? Now this. I hope I can stay away from Redskins football, even if they win. Because soon it will be more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I realize now this could be a fun tangent. Agreed, things are better now for Russians than they were in the 90's. They were horrible then. Though they're teetering on the brink of an economic depression, they are involved in a war in Ukraine that's made them a pariah state, and their is some worry that their demographic recovery isn't going to sustain itself because of a spike in the mortality rate to start the year. You do seem to be agreeing with me that the progression goes Czars > Soviets > Post Soviet "Democracy. But you've added in: Post Soviet Democracy < Putin. I think that's accurate. Although I don't think it's accurate to say Putin outmaneuvered the Kleptocrats and is independent of their influence. More accurate would be to say Putin is the country's lead kleptocrat. Ah, didn't know about that mortality rate increase. I think we agree with Tsars>Soviets but I'm not entirely sure Putin isn't better than the Soviets. Not because the actual indicators are intensely positive but because the conditions of the country are pretty much attributable to the 70 years of atomizing, soul-crushing slaughter, totalitarianism and eventual disillusionment with the supreme ideology (though a lot of Russians simply do not believe Ukraine has a legitimate claim to the Crimea and their historical investment in this region makes it hard to look at it as simple power politics. I also think that "pariah" status in a world with the US and EU decadent and self-destructive elite ideologies may be less critical in the long-term if Russia aligns itself with regional/global powers like China. Sorry for the long parenthetical) Back to the Skins, I've already been a little disenchanted with some of the decisions by Scott but I'm comfortable with continuing to trust his expertise from an organizational perspective. I also do not believe Dan will impulsively fire him, he may intercede to fire a coach, but even that I think would be a consultative process, or moreso than the past. It's funny that people question why Dan never adopted this approach before, but I think in his mind he did previously. You ever look at organizations and wonder why they made the decisions they did, because no one sane would? Well, look at governments, businesses, individuals--it happens all the time. The good thing about it is that the Redskins are protected from becoming defunct by their membership in the NFL (put aside concussion concerns as an overall threat to the game) whereas almost all of the Fortune 500 from 40-50 years ago have disappeared, at least as distinct forms. So, this means that eventually it will turn around. Looking at the landscape of the last 10-15 years, Patriot dominance aside, a number of teams that had decades of failure have emerged as contenders or at least "stable" franchises. The Redskins time will come and it will come with Dan as owner, unless he decides differently for other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Be Right? How can they be right when Robert is only part of the problem? I don't buy Jay's spin that Kirk just earned the job over Robert. If Kirk was that much better; we would've heard about it all preseason. Robert lost the job and it became obvious they team couldn't proceed with Robert. The concussion; gave the team the time to finally convince Dan that this was the case. So, now we go into the season with Kirk. Jay must be right on that? I think most but not all feel that this team doesn't have a starting qb on the roster. Going to Kirk, is pretty much no choice this year. If Kirk has anything; then he will sieze the opportunity. Something he failed miserablely at last year. We also have Colt, really the only QB who seemed to run's Gruden's offense the best last year. If Kirk is like I think he will be; we will see Colt at some point. Anyone seriously expecting a big irmpovement were deluding themselves. This team isn't going to win 8 games. It will be lucky to win 6 games. Be right with Gruden? Already in preseason; we are seeing Gruden handles adversity poorly. If things head south; he will lose this team quickly and won't be able to turn it around. I think Gruden is stll on the path to making a forced exit. Barry- never should've been hired, based on his horriffic past. While we were still in the Robert era; some people were expecting playoffs. Now, some people may still expect that; if they were on the feeling that the team was better without Robert at QB. This team isn't that good. We are still a team on track for a Top 5 to Top 7 pick. All one can hope is that Kirk plays at least well enough; so Scot can properly evaluate the other players on offense. Same thing, if and when Colt takes the reigns. 2016, the team will be drafting a QB. If Kirk or Colt plays decent; they may be resigned. They would either compete for the starting job with the rookie in 2016 or hold the job until the rookie is ready. I don't think we can be right on so many of those things you pointed out; when were are already wrong on so many of those things. I can now enjoy the season. I have no expectations other than we will stink. I hope the best of the roster can help form that core that Scot will be allowed to build. 2017 or more likely 2018 is when I expect results. If we do it right under Scot; then maybe we can become one of the elite teams of the 20's. Maybe even be that team of the 20's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 And yet they need to be, 2000. If you think about it it's past time they were right about something. Okay, that's unfair. Shanny was right about Haynesworth and McNabb (after the fact,) but this regime needs to be right about the big choices. Choosing the defensive coordinator is a big deal esp. after so many years of ineptitude. Discovering whether Jay is the right leader, strategist, and teacher for this team is huge. Making the right call on Robert is too. There are other things that they best be right about. McCloughan better be what his history says he is or we are truly and completely ****ed. Those are the biggies for this season though. It is time for the team to be right and to start making decisions that don't just every seven years lead to one oasis followed by six more years of crap, but solidity, competiveness, and respectability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskin Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 My god the pessimism I just read is impressive- trashing RG, trashing Cousins, trashing management, trashing coaches. Take a step back, take a breath, and look at the situation honestly. 1- RG was great in a gimmick scheme. After he got hurt and refused to play in it again, it screwed us as well as himself. 2- We brought in an actual QB coach and I'll tell you what, Cousins looked just fine against a strong Ravens D. Also, for all of the excuses we gave RG (new scheme, new coach, coming back from injuries), Cousins has had to deal with the same adversity. 3- Cousins is made for a pro-style offense. He reads defenses, he moves in the pocket, he stays composed. He may not be Tom Brady, but would any of you complain if we had a consistent middle-of-the pack QB for the first time in 2 decades? 4- Look back at last year, our offense wasn't great, but our defense was TERRIBLE. 5- Besides D, what was our other big flaw last year- OL 6- And what did we address with just about all of our cap and draft picks on this off-season? 7- We have one of the best GMs in the league. So far he's taken the correct, non-flashy steps to putting this team back in the right direction. Sure, we aren't winning the SB this year, that's fine. But, if you for a second think this team was better off last year than we are right now, you've lost your mind. Stop reading all of circus articles about this team and think for yourself. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Quick and rough calculation, 52-65 with Vinny's second stint (44%), 32-64 since (33%). How is that even possible? Someone's signature on this site said it best - being a Redskins fan prepares you for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 And yet they need to be, 2000. If you think about it it's past time they were right about something. Okay, that's unfair. Shanny was right about Haynesworth and McNabb (after the fact,) but this regime needs to be right about the big choices. Choosing the defensive coordinator is a big deal esp. after so many years of ineptitude. Discovering whether Jay is the right leader, strategist, and teacher for this team is huge. Making the right call on Robert is too. There are other things that they best be right about. McCloughan better be what his history says he is or we are truly and completely ****ed. Those are the biggies for this season though. It is time for the team to be right and to start making decisions that don't just every seven years lead to one oasis followed by six more years of crap, but solidity, competiveness, and respectability. I will agree with you about Scot. They absolutely need to be right on him. Thing is where we disagree; is the other choices. In my view, they are already wrong: 1. RG3 - he was a half season wonder. Maybe over time, he can become an NFL QB. The time for that to happen with the Redskins is over. I don't think Robert would ever develop here. Personally, I think he will be out of the NFL in 3 years. 2. The other QB's. Neither one of them is a starter. Gruden's choice was that Robert wasn't the starter. He may put the spin on it that Kirk has really improved. In reality, what option does he have left. If it isn't Robert, it's Kirk or Colt. I don't think either one of them is a starter in the NFL. Backups, who could fill in for 2-3 games. I actually think Kirk is going be benched after the first 3 games. We are stuck with Kirk and Colt. 2016; we will have new QBs on this team. So, we are right in deciding Robert isn't the starter. Who will be that starter; we won't know until 2016. 3. Gruden - He only got the job due to the personal connection with Bruce. He was horrible last year and frankly, I haven't been impressed with him this year. I think we are already wrong on the coaching question. 4. Barry - I don't think it matters; because I feel Gruden will gone after 2015 and thus the coaching staff will be gone. I am not going to hold the Skins for being wrong on Kirk,Colt,Jay,Barry for 2015. Those choices were already made. 2015 for them is showing Scot that they belong on this team beyond 2015. 2016 is when I will start hold Scot responsible for the team he builds. I can't do that for 2015; other than the players he drafted or choice to sign to contract extensions. Everyone else are holdovers- who are auditioning for a role on this team beyond this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Did I just read a 5000 word OP that amounts to "this better work out!" ? Okay. Sure. Be right, ****es. If not, well, we'll all do nothing. As usual. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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