Gregpeck99 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Depressingly negative. Cousins is a young pocket passer with intelligence, intangibles and more than a modicum of talent. Skins have a pod of young players on the up ... Anything can happen ... even good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokenstriker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Bring back Vinny! Bring back Vinny! Bring back Vinny! The numbers don't lie. the true effect of a GM, or in Vinnie "the Destroyer" Cerrato's case GM-like synchopant, is seen in the future. There are immediate effects of course but the true legacy is in the years after when the foundation built or destroyed shows its true colors. Look for example at the 49'ers after Cerrato left (i.e., after their roster had been destroyed by terrible signings and FA madness) ... and then look at the Redskins after Cerrato left ... Keep that in mind when assessing GMSM ... its not so much this year and next ... its 3 - 5 years from now. Like the man said ... it takes time to rebuild. Similarly it takes time to see the results of killing a franchise from the GM position (GM in name or spirit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 the true effect of a GM, or in Vinnie "the Destroyer" Cerrato's case GM-like synchopant, is seen in the future. There are immediate effects of course but the true legacy is in the years after when the foundation built or destroyed shows its true colors. Look for example at the 49'ers after Cerrato left (i.e., after their roster had been destroyed by terrible signings and FA madness) ... and then look at the Redskins after Cerrato left ... Keep that in mind when assessing GMSM ... its not so much this year and next ... its 3 - 5 years from now. Like the man said ... it takes time to rebuild. Similarly it takes time to see the results of killing a franchise from the GM position (GM in name or spirit). Bring back Vinny! Bring back Vinny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Wait a minute, now I'm confused Submitted. I thought your argument was that Barry was all on Gruden, but Callahan was all on McCloughan (hmm... they rhyme... Gruden, McCloughan, potato/Patahto... never mind) I certanly don't think that McCloughan circumvented or forced any coach on Gruden... not only would that be bad and detrimental, it'd make Scott a liar. I will come clean to say I forgot or never knew much of the Callahan/Gruden stuff you pointed out. However, I still say the Barry hire is 100% on Jay. The others... :evilg: Edit: Funny thing is, I thought I was supporting your complaint Submittedone I sometimes wonder if I'm the only person who has ever worked in an office with more than six people. I don't think there is any business in the world that this as straightforward as we like to pretend NFL teams are. Generally speaking, GMs find the players and the coaches sift through them. Generally speaking, GMs hire coaches and coaches hire their staffs. Generally speaking, the owners either sign off or veto major decisions. But this is the real world. I'm sure every GM has gone to a coach and said, "Hey...it's your call...but I worked with Buddy Ryan's kid in wherever and he's a top notch guy.....maybe you should give him a look for the linebackers....." And I have to think that every NFL team has had the discussion of "Sure, you can cut X but that means we won't be able to sign a linebacker next year because of the cap hit......" I mean, I'm sure it's just a coincidence that every company has some random VP's son on the sales staff, even though that VP has nothing to do with sales..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Allowing Bruce to make football decisions. He's a money guy. Letting Bruce hire a head coach that doesn't run an offense suited to our personnel Both of these were major points of contention on this board. Allowing Bruce to make football decisions. He's a money guy. Letting Bruce hire a head coach that doesn't run an offense suited to our personnel Both of these were major points of contention on this board. Actually, people were head over heels for Allen at first. Nothing after that hire was Snyder, as far as we know. It wasn't until it went wrong that people hated the Allen hire, regardless of his history that was there all along. We're all suckers in the moment, but we love to criticize the past with 20/20 vision and blame it all on Snyder. The same thing will happen if Scot once again succumbs to his drinking problem. It will be Snyder's fault for putting such an unstable man in such a prominent decision-making position, even though we all love it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Actually, people were head over heels for Allen at first. Nothing after that hire was Snyder, as far as we know. It wasn't until it went wrong that people hated the Allen hire, regardless of his history that was there all along. We're all suckers in the moment, but we love to criticize the past with 20/20 vision and blame it all on Snyder. The same thing will happen if Scot once again succumbs to his drinking problem. It will be Snyder's fault for putting such an unstable man in such a prominent decision-making position, even though we all love it now. People loved the Allen hire, because they were excited about the Shanahan hire. It was seen as Shanahan bringing in a "Redskins guy" to be his buffer to Danny, which actually made a hell of a lot of sense on paper. I think people got wary of Allen when he actually ended up in charge of the team. I mean, who wants that? At the moment, Bruce just seems redundant. Shanahan needed a guy in the Front Office to do his bidding because he was coaching. With a more traditional GM/coach split, I'm not sure what Bruce really does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 People also loved the Allen hire because he wasn't Vinny. Bruce also had a history and love of the Redskins and we responded to his passion for the team. There were more than a few grumblers who said that he wasn't a great personnel guy in Tampa or Oakland, but by and large we were happy. He has turned out to be a pretty good contracts guy and his 2014 draft doesn't look all that shabby today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 People loved the Allen hire, because they were excited about the Shanahan hire. It was seen as Shanahan bringing in a "Redskins guy" to be his buffer to Danny, which actually made a hell of a lot of sense on paper. I think people got wary of Allen when he actually ended up in charge of the team. I mean, who wants that? At the moment, Bruce just seems redundant. Shanahan needed a guy in the Front Office to do his bidding because he was coaching. With a more traditional GM/coach split, I'm not sure what Bruce really does. From what I can tell, he handles the day-to-day administrative stuff that drove McCloughan to drinking with the 49ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Depressingly negative. Cousins is a young pocket passer with intelligence, intangibles and more than a modicum of talent. Skins have a pod of young players on the up ... Anything can happen ... even good stuff. I don't know about anyone else, but i always read this guy's posts in Gregory Peck's voice, of which i do a fine impression. And it makes it sound AWESOME. I am ready for the good stuff, and I agree, we do have some nice young developing talent. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 From what I can tell, he handles the day-to-day administrative stuff that drove McCloughan to drinking with the 49ers. God help us if Scot has to get involved with the name issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail4Life Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So in a nutshell, this franchise is abandoning the biggest and one of the most promising investments in team history and betting it all on a former Arena League QB turned NFL coach with a resume that includes a couple short years as a mediocre to pretty good offensive coordinator? That's so Redskins. Yeah...you better be ****damn right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokenstriker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Bring back Vinny! Bring back Vinny! lmao ... the season can't start soon enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokenstriker Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 So in a nutshell, this franchise is abandoning the biggest and one of the most promising investments in team history and betting it all on a former Arena League QB turned NFL coach with a resume that includes a couple short years as a mediocre to pretty good offensive coordinator? That's so Redskins. Yeah...you better be ****damn right! or in other words .... this franchise is abandoning the biggest and one of the most promising investments in team history that has delivered nothing but unrealized expectations on the field and off for the past two years while running a coaching staff out of town in between launching a media campaign designed to handcuff the franchise into playing him ... and betting it all on a former 11-5 wild card team OC who successfully nurtured a developing QB after trying a successful Super Bowl winning HC and his successful OC son former Arena League QB turned NFL coach with a resume that includes a couple short years as a mediocre to pretty good offensive coordinator? That's so Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFTW Next Year Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 So in a nutshell, this franchise is abandoning the biggest and one of the most promising investments in team history and betting it all on a former Arena League QB turned NFL coach with a resume that includes a couple short years as a mediocre to pretty good offensive coordinator? That's so Redskins. Yeah...you better be ****damn right! Pretty much. Get the brown bags out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I fully reserve the right to trash Barry once the season starts and the defense looks like fido's ass. In the meantime, people forget that the head coach of that same 0-16 Lions Team so often mentioned was the same D coordinator who "worked miracles" (he didn't) in Dallas last year. Bottom line, I'm not sure coaches affect much in the NFL. I think it comes down to talent on the field. There are just too many good coaches out there who have proven that they've simply been in bad situations before. Pete Carroll, Rod Marinelli, I mean... did these guys just all of a sudden learn how to coach? Or is it about talent in the NFL? Which is more likely? The way I see it, you can give an idiot lobster, and he'll make a **** sandwich. But you can't give a sous chef **** and expect lobster thermidor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 The way I see it, you can give an idiot lobster, and he'll make a **** sandwich. But you can't give a sous chef **** and expect lobster thermidor. I absolutely agree. It can go both ways. I always felt Haslett got less out of his talent then he should have. At the same time, I remember when Matt Millen came to the Redskins in 1991, him saying that he'd never been on a team with so many "B" players with no "A"s. That team as we know wound up being one of the best teams in NFL history. In 1997, Gibbs was given **** and made Lobster Thermidor during those scab games. Zorn in his first year coaching began making great dishes, but by the second half of the year it all fell to ruin as it turned out he only knew how to make one dish. His fall from 5-2 to 7-9 (or whatever it was) wasn't about talent. It was about coaching. In that way, I disagree with Zoony's statement. I think coaching has a powerful impact in football. I think it boosts or drops a team by at least a letter grade. A great coach like Gibbs can take a D team and make it a C+ team. He showed that in both the Scab Year and all the Vinny years. A terrible coach can take a A team and bring it down to a C. We saw that in some of the Dallas coaches following Jimmy Johnson's run. I'm not sure if Gruden is good enough or bad enough to raise or drop his team much. That's yet to be discovered. we better even withhold our judgment (though not our opinions) on Barry and give at least half the year to figure it out. Still, as I thematically regurgitate... I need them to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I've deleted a series of OT posts---now located elsewhere---that added nothing of usefulness to the thread discussion and involved a moderation matter between myself and another member (no members or animals were harmed in the process ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 bur---you need to clean out your msg box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 bur---you need to clean out your msg box Had no idea it was that close. I just knocked out a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 With a more traditional GM/coach split, I'm not sure what Bruce really does. Me neither. That's why I've assigned "Snyder Handler" and "Acceptable Football-man Chief of State" as his primary duties in my head. And if that's actually the case, then he makes sense where he is. If we had a multi-generation football family like the Rooneys or Maras owning the team, we wouldn't need to hire somebody to be the football man running operations. But Snyder isn't that, and he's proven time and again he's an NFL outsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Me neither. That's why I've assigned "Snyder Handler" and "Acceptable Football-man Chief of State" as his primary duties in my head. And if that's actually the case, then he makes sense where he is. If we had a multi-generation football family like the Rooneys or Maras owning the team, we wouldn't need to hire somebody to be the football man running operations. But Snyder isn't that, and he's proven time and again he's an NFL outsider. I don't really buy the "He's a cap expert" stuff. Every team has people with like degrees in spaced-based accounting that handle the cap stuff. Guys at Bruce's level aren't sitting up until 3 in the morning staring at a spreadsheet to figure out to the decimal how much Darel Young needs to make in 2016. I mean, I guess he can set the tone of "Hey....the cap is a thing and we should maybe pay attention to it." But so could you. And you are dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 Well, I am proud to say that with 2015 almost in the books... They were right. Gruden made a bold choice on QB and DC and they both played out well. Cousins exceptionally and Barry pretty darn well. The teaching job that was done especially in the secondary is amazing. I'm a little surprised by how some of the linebackers fared. Keenan esp. fell off. I don't know if that's scheme, injuries, or the player? Kerrigan struggled with injuries and recovery early on and has been solid though not exceptional this season. Riley had a bit of a resurgence, but is what he is for the most part. Compton and Foster are good stories and Murphy and Smith are growing. There is still a part of me that wonders what RGIII would have done with the better pass pro... I especially saw that while watching Aaron Rogers look really Griffinesque yesterday with his 8 sacks, but I'm not going to argue with results. The team rallied around Cousins and is now looking really strong in the passing game. At this season's end, it's been quite a turnaround. Gruden, Barry, Cousins, the special teams, almost every aspect has improved (with the exception of the running game) Hats off and hail to them. I was never happier that they "Be Right" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooterman Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Well, the team has certainly exceeded what I thought they would do this year. However, I'm not completely in the "they are right" camp yet. A win in the first round of the playoffs and even more improvement next year would put me squarely in agreement with you Burgold! I am very excited about the mental turnaround this year's team has shown. They seem to think "why can't we" instead of "we can't". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 You don't go to the playoffs by being wrong... They made the choices that had to be made to be successful this year. You're more concerned about them carrying it again next year, but that's another subject. Players will come back from injuries, coaches will have grown, Kirk will have a new contract, youngsters will be a little bit seasoned, and we'll have a new crop of rookie to breed and cheer for. To me, they obviously are right this year. Because if they aren't right, then they're wrong, just like Chip Kelly. Anything can happen in the playoffs, a surge from one player nobody knows, a last second FG, a crappy referee call... a stupid fumble... Lots of thing that can make you lose or win, without really being wrong. If you're in the playoffs, you're right. And the other 20 teams that are out, are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 Well, the team has certainly exceeded what I thought they would do this year. However, I'm not completely in the "they are right" camp yet. A win in the first round of the playoffs and even more improvement next year would put me squarely in agreement with you Burgold! I am very excited about the mental turnaround this year's team has shown. They seem to think "why can't we" instead of "we can't". I don't really disagree, but in considering the dessert they had to cross... from where they left this team in 2014 I am pretty comfortable in saying that they "be right" in their choices. In four years, we may decide that Gruden is Bruce Budreau or Randy Whitman a guy good enough to stabilize the shop and get us in the playoffs, but not take us to the promised land, but considering we've been dining on cactus needles and warming marrow out of fossils for twenty years... I'll take these first steps and be happy with them. This team couldn't even crawl last year. This year, they're walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.