btfoom Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Be right. ... but what if you are Sonny Jurgensen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 Did I just read a 5000 word OP that amounts to "this better work out!" ? Okay. Sure. Be right, ****es. If not, well, we'll all do nothing. As usual. Have a nice day. What can I say... I'm paid by the word. I'm the 21st Century version of Charlie Dickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 And just to be precise, Zoony. It isn't nothing. Ticket sales are down, merchandise sales are down, and interest is down. There's a very big economic reason they need to get it right. They are losing the fan base. In my youth, the Redskins owned the whole of the South. Now, we're not even always the favorite team of the DMV. Part of that is expansion, but a lot of it is losing and losing stupidly. I think there are pivot points. Some very big decisions are being made right now. They need to be right or they will see more people walk away. They need to be right or else lose their jobs (Mind you, that's always the case to a degree, but I think it's moreso, when you make statement hires like Barry or statement benchings.) They very well may be right. All these decisions may be good ones or the best ones possible, but it is important for them to get it right. You're right that I'll probably stick around, but I do wonder about that 15 year old or 8 year old, or even the 25 year old who has almost never felt joy. What's keeping them around? The turnaround is long overdue. You live long enough in a drought and even the best irrigation practices won't suffice. Be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Just so we all understand though, Kirk Cousins becoming a franchise QB this season is Gruden's ONLY chance at keeping his job. Personally, I don't like his odds... I wonder if it ever dawned on Gruden that he was married to the eventual success or failure of RGIII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Did I just read a 5000 word OP that amounts to "this better work out!" ? Okay. Sure. Be right, ****es. If not, well, we'll all do nothing. As usual. Have a nice day. What I read when it appeared was the same stuff burg has been saying in most posts he makes every day, just piled into a heap so he could start another thread. But the OP got a lot of likes and compliments. And the critique doesn't mean I don't like ya bur or value you as a fellow ES'er as I figure you know, and i'm obviously in a minority about my opinion of the OP. And I think you write very well, indeed. Per stevemcqueen1 Just so we all understand though, Kirk Cousins becoming a franchise QB this season is Gruden's ONLY chance at keeping his job. Personally, I don't like his odds...I wonder if it ever dawned on Gruden that he was married to the eventual success or failure of RGIII? Really, amigo, you're hardly a solid litmus test for what we should all "understand." Now I don't really care what you think you understand , just be you , but while you're one of the guys who likes to post this claim (and you have) I've been posting that it is a very weak claim. Cousins could struggle considerably without heavy fallout attached to Jay. There's a lot of factors in play as we go through this next season. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The move to bench RGIII does not get made without the support of the General Manager, period. You guys don't think Scott M knows how to watch tape and grade a QB? Gruden specifically said it was a decision he and the GM came to. So, I guess we fire GMSM too if this doesn't work out? Bottom line, the tape shows Cousins is better. period. That's all we have to go on. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING else at this point is an agenda. On either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I don't know that I disagree with you, Zoony or with Jumbo (except for his description of the OP :evilg: ) I do think the hiring of Barry might actually be more of a litmus test for Gruden than the decision to bench RGIII which was 1) the coach's prerogative and 2) a decision that hopefully the coach made and the rest agreed on. I actually would be upset if Gruden had to get a brain trust consensus before benching Griffin. He's the head coach. His opinion on who starts and who rides the bench should be final. If you can't trust him to do that you can't trust him to be the head coach. If he can't be entrusted to do that and the team realizes it... he's lost the team. Everyone should be on the same page, but the Head Coach needs to own the power of the bench. In some respects, the Barry hire is the one that Gruden needs to get right much more than his call on the QB. As I've said, I think that he made the right call on Kirk v Robert. It sure seems like it, but he's made a number of moves that put his stamp on the team. The Barry decision sits squarely on Gruden and only Gruden. He's now more responsible for the outcome... and with great power comes great responsibility. :silly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I like the Barry point, bur, have understood the apprehensions many have had from the get-go and share them, but remain open and do like his attitude and approach so far. While I took pains, out of postive regard, to make my criticism friendly/jabbing in intent, I still really appreciate you actually took it that way. One thing that brooks no argument IMO, you have always been a class act on ES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I like the Barry point, bur, have understood the apprehension from the get-go and share them, but remain open and do like his attitude and approach so far. I fully reserve the right to trash Barry once the season starts and the defense looks like fido's ass. In the meantime, people forget that the head coach of that same 0-16 Lions Team so often mentioned was the same D coordinator who "worked miracles" (he didn't) in Dallas last year. Bottom line, I'm not sure coaches affect much in the NFL. I think it comes down to talent on the field. There are just too many good coaches out there who have proven that they've simply been in bad situations before. Pete Carroll, Rod Marinelli, I mean... did these guys just all of a sudden learn how to coach? Or is it about talent in the NFL? Which is more likely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 It's really interesting how everyone's expectations for the team has jumped since the QB change. I mean it seems like everyone was ready to give the team under 10 all the time in the world but now, Gruden better get to cooking on a 10 win season Or else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 The hiring looks good so far, Jumbo (fingers crossed,) but with a qualification. The starters have stunk up the joint on defense (esp against the pass) during the first quarter of each game. In fairness to Barry, in a number of those games our "starters" included fourth string corners all too often. Like you, I'm hopeful. I also think that we need to give Barry a chance to grow into the role and not condemn him after a bad game or two just as we shouldn't condemn Kirk. Both deserve to have the chance to get better. Also, both deserve a bad game... no one pitches perfect. However, when all is said and done and we look at the D at the end of the year... he better be right dagnabbit. It's really interesting how everyone's expectations for the team has jumped since the QB change. I mean it seems like everyone was ready to give the team under 10 all the time in the world but now, Gruden better get to cooking on a 10 win seasonOr else Actually, my number hasn't changed. I'm predicting 7 wins and if he gets there I will mark it a success. What I want to see this year is a disciplined team that gets better as the year goes. It's a squishy definition of "be right" but I think it's a fair one. Realistically, the record isn't the chief indicator of whether they are right, but it's the easiest one to gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I totally disagree with the OP. Gruden and McCloughan have not staked their reps on Cousins just because they don't think RG3 is an NFL-quality QB. Neither coach nor GM picked RG3 or Cousins. Cousins is just what they have available now that they have determined that RG3 is not the future. Best case scenario: Loss a whole bunch this year and find a new QB in the draft next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I totally disagree with the OP. Gruden and McCloughan have not staked their reps on Cousins just because they don't think RG3 is an NFL-quality QB. Neither coach nor GM picked RG3 or Cousins. Cousins is just what they have available now that they have determined that RG3 is not the future. Best case scenario: Loss a whole bunch this year and find a new QB in the draft next year. Here's my hopelessly optimistic take. I think Cousins is good enough to be a phil simms type of player. I'd actually rather see us take another Olineman or CB in the first round next year... because I think Kirk could get it done with a good Team. He just couldn't elevate a bad team. But I do agree with your original sentence, strongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Did I just read a 5000 word OP that amounts to "this better work out!" ? Okay. Sure. Be right, ****es. If not, well, we'll all do nothing. As usual. Have a nice day. I'm laughing at the idea that Scotty Mac has anything on the line at this point. He's been handed Fredo Gruden and three sketchy QBs. They can lose every game by 50 and at the end of the year, he can go in Dan's office and say, "Boy...this team you handed me sure sucked ass, didn't it? Now, let me do what I need to do." Gruden needs to save his job. He's a second year coach with a terrible record and a brand new GM. He's going to be fired the day after the season unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat. And before everyone starts with "Who can they get if they fire him?" The answer to that question is totally dependent on whether Scott's reputation is as good as we've been told it is. "Want to be the next Pete Carrol or Jim Harbaugh? Come work for me" is a damn good pitch. No one will think of Jim Zorn when he says that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I'm laughing at the idea that Scotty Mac has anything on the line at this point. He's been handed Fredo Gruden and three sketchy QBs. They can lose every game by 50 and at the end of the year, he can go in Dan's office and say, "Boy...this team you handed me sure sucked ass, didn't it? Now, let me do what I need to do." Pretty sure Bruce Allen is still using that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 You know who basically got fired last year because his defense sucked? Dick Lebeau. You know who is the greatest defensive coordinator ever? I don't know, but it could be Dick Lebeau. Pretty sure Bruce Allen is still using that line. Bruce Allen's job is to look good in a suit and tell stories about the 70s. He's doing that exceptionally well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 "Want to be the next Pete Carrol or Jim Harbaugh? Come work for me" is a damn good pitch. Just go grab Jim Harbaugh. 4 years of excitement, which at this point would be the mythical oasis in the desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Just go grab Jim Harbaugh. 4 years of excitement, which at this point would be the mythical oasis in the desert. Are you actually being serious with this suggestion? You keep saying it, and if it's a joke, it's not getting funnier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Are you actually being serious with this suggestion? You keep saying it, and if it's a joke, it's not getting funnier. It would be the most delicious thing ever 1) The team would be good 2) The guy is insane 3) He is also some sort of QB coach savant. 4) Dan vs Scot vs Jim would be incredible in 2020 5) I am convinced now that Dan can only give a max of 4 years before things get so bad there has to be some big blow up. Which is about the shelf life of Harbaugh in any place. Might as well get 40-50 wins in that time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I totally disagree with the OP. Gruden and McCloughan have not staked their reps on Cousins just because they don't think RG3 is an NFL-quality QB. Neither coach nor GM picked RG3 or Cousins. Cousins is just what they have available now that they have determined that RG3 is not the future. Best case scenario: Loss a whole bunch this year and find a new QB in the draft next year. I think what some are missing... because it is the topic of the moment... is this thread is not about Cousins v. RGIII. Its scope is much wider than that. Yes, the QB piece is part of the puzzle, but it's only one component. I think this is a proving year. I think that the decisions made now in staff, personnel, play calling, etc. will be scrutinized finally. At the end, they better be right. That's because the team's support is really fragile and negative, but also the staff have yet to prove themselves. I think Jay's seat is not hot yet, but there's definitely a thermometer stuck in there. McCloughan wants him to succeed and has done everything in his power to assure that, but at the end of the day... Jay's decisions on the field and off will tell the story. I think he needs to be right this year. He needs to prove to all (mostly McCloughan) that he is the right guy for the job. How that is measured might be in wins, it might be in growth of players/team, it might be in the effectiveness of the staff he hired. If you look at the coaches we've hired. Each has gotten a honeymoon that is shorter and shorter. I'd argue that, unfairly, Jay got no honeymoon at all. Still, even if we erase last year and start this year with a clean slate, I think his decisions mark him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Jim Harbaugh would get along with Snyder swimmingly. And by that, I mean there would be drowning. Although the added drama of the beltway rivalry with the Ravens being both Harbaughs would almost be too good to pass up. Theres no way there wouldnt be some kind of galactic implosion with all of that going around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 First Year Records - Bill Belichick – 2000 New England Patriots - 05-11 Bill Walsh – 1979 San Francisco 49ers - 02-14 Tom Coughlin - 1995 Jacksonville Jaguars - 04-12 Tom Landry - 1960 - Dallas Cowboys - 00-11-1 Chuck Noll - 1969 - Pittsburg Stellers - 01-13 Bill Parcells - 1983 - New York Giants - 03-12 Jimmy Johnson - 1989 - Dallas Cowboys -01-15 Jay Gruden - 2014 - Washington Redskins - 03-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Here's my hopelessly optimistic take. I think Cousins is good enough to be a phil simms type of player. shoot that would be awesome if he turned out to be a Phil Simms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintGibbs Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 It does feel like we're being placated. Since the news came down about the switch, I have thought several times how it's the second step we've made towards becoming a 'normal team'(Step 1. hire real GM)...but then I remember we're the Redskins, and our owner does something every year to piss us off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Really, amigo, you're hardly a solid litmus test for what we should all "understand." Now I don't really care what you think you understand , just be you , but while you're one of the guys who likes to post this claim (and you have) I've been posting that it is a very weak claim. Cousins could struggle considerably without heavy fallout attached to Jay. There's a lot of factors in play as we go through this next season. We'll see. You really think there is any chance he'll survive failing with a second QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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