STATEMENT BY NFL INDEPENDENT NEUROLOGIST ROBERT N. KURTZKE ON #Redskins QB ROBERT GRIFFIN III

[respectgibbs]

For all of you worried about Robert's health, open your ****ing eyes. This is cookie-cutter CYA by the neuro doctor, that's all. He didn't have a concussion, the only thing that got damaged against the Lions was his pride. This whole bull**** diagnosis has now snowballed into predictable ass-covering. Kind of sucks for Robert because he knows he didn't have a concussion but somehow is now caught up in this new paranoia of NFL concussions. He'll be back probably for next pre season game, nothing to see here. 

[Jacoah]

I've been a fan for nearly 30 years. I've been through all the ups and downs (more downs than ups I might add). While I want to remain positive, while I will always remain a dedicated fan, I'm growing awfully tired and impatient with this stupid ****ing franchise. The ****ing circus never ends. Que the Benny Hill theme music....

[Fergasun]

Does anyone want to discuss the actual NFL Concussion Protocol, or are we just going to speculate and play the game of "NFL Injury Clue"?  So if you want to keep speculating, or throwing out BS without any background information, context, etc, than skip over this post and talk about how this is all some ploy to keep RG3 from starting because the "staff" doesn't want to hurt his feelings.

 

Washington Redskin beat writers - you need to give me attribution because I'm doing your research for articles you will be posting (specifically you Rich Tandler - actually, you're just the only beat writer I reguarly read).

 

1) What is the NFL Concussion Protocol?

This article contains a link to the PDF version of the NFL concussion protocol. 

 

For those too lazy to click on the links and read further, let me draw some points out.  This is in reference to Step 5, "Full Football Activity/Clearance":

All return to full participation decisions are to be confirmed by the Independent Neurological Consultant (INC). The INC should be informed when a concussion occurs so that consultation at a medically appropriate time can be arranged. The Team Physician may consult with the INC as often as desired during the concussion recovery period. The INC will be consulted specifically to answer the question of the player-patient’s neurological health and his full return to competitive participation (see Step 5 below). The final clearance for return to play is a decision made by the team’s medical staff and must be confirmed by the INC.

...

After the player-patient has established his ability to participate in non-contact football activity including team meetings, conditioning and non-contact practice without recurrence of signs and symptoms and his neurocognitive testing is back to baseline, the Team Physician may clear him for full football activity involving contact.  Once cleared by the Team Physician, the player-patient may participate in all aspects of practice.

 

 

...

If the player-patient tolerates full participation practice and contact without signs or symptoms and the Team Physician concludes that the player-patient’s concussion has resolved, he may clear the player-patient to return to full participation.  Upon clearance by the Team Physician, the player must be examined by the INC assigned to his Team.  The INC must be provided a copy of all relevant reports and tests, including the player-patient’s neurocognitive tests and interpretations.  If the INC confirms the Team Physician’s conclusion that the player-patient’s concussion has resolved, the player-patient is considered cleared and may participate in his Team’s next game or practice. 

 

So it is both the team's physicians and the INC that clear a player for game-day.  It also appears that the team's doctors are able to clear a player for full contact participation, leading up to game-day.  It is not clear whether the INC has to confirm every step through the protocol or just the final step.  It appears it is only the return to "full participation" - I am assuming "full participation" means no longer requiring monitoring within the NFL concussion protocol. 

 

2) That is great information!  Can I get some more on the application of the NFL concussion protocol?

 

Why yes - here are some excerpts from a NY Times Article (NYT: Concussions, By the New Book).  They interviewed NY Giants doctors for information. 

Since all the players take a series of neuro-cognitive tests, known as baseline testing, in the summer, the team can, in some cases, have the player take a version of those tests in the locker room and compare the scores.

 

...

The Giants do not clear the player for a full practice or a game until he visits with a neurologist a second time. Many players are back within a week. Some can miss months.

 

So, the doctor's, the trained, professional doctor's who went to years and years of medical school, passing multiple tests and certifications - they actually like getting data such as "baseline data" and look at different factors to clear a player. 

 

3) I'm still very salty about the Giants, do you have any further information you can give to me that doesn't involve that team with their evil owner?

 

Why yes - I hope you don't mind reading NFL.com.  This is actually a 2013 article but still relevant.

NFL.com: 2013 Protocol for Players with Concussions

...

If the player is progressing, he would be become eligible for increased physical activity. The workouts would ramp up over a few days if no symptoms occur.

 

...

"The thing that I think is important here is you don't manage concussions by a calendar," Dr. Herring said. "Some guys may come back in a week. Some guys may come back in six weeks. These steps don't have an expiration date on them. The player's history of injury and other issues come into play."

 

...

Once a team doctor signs off on a player's return, the player is evaluated in person by an unaffiliated concussion expert physician approved by both the NFL and NFL Players Association. This unaffiliated expert also must sign off on the player's health before he is allowed to return to play.

...

"The thinking is that we have done our best work, but an automatic second opinion is built in," Herring said.  "We've never had a disagreement, but I would welcome it if we did because we could learn from it. This is a trust issue. We need assurances there is no rush to return to play for any reason."

...

So, in this case it looks like the second opinion may disagree with the original opinion.  That's okay - that is how the concussion protocol is supposed to work.  Additionally, don't we all think that RG3 has gotten into enough trouble in the past trying to come back from injuries too soon? 

 

4) One last item.  It appears the concussion protocol is not swift and doesn't care about game schedules, etc.  A lot of articles I found had players getting full clearance Friday/Saturday, and even one (Leon Hall) didn't get clearance for a Thursday game.  

PFT: AJ Green Not Practicing Today, Still in Concussion Protocol

PFT: A Pair of Cowboy's Defenders Clear Concussion Protocol

PFT: Drew Stanton Cleared Through Concussion Protocol

PFT: Leon Hall Out For Thursday Night

 

 

My take: As the protocol is intended to prevent players from seeing the field too soon, there is nothing wrong with doctors being prudent provided that RG3 is not passing the tests he needs to pass in order to close out his concussion protocol.  Perhaps even the Redskins asked the INC to make the statement - given he's not required to confirm a player remains sidelined - it would be more fishy if this was made and the INC was silent. 

 

Given it is RG3, and given the drama-nado that's engulfed him this training camp (he's not entirely clean handed) anything is possible.  One would hope the doctor's aren't influenced by football decisions/personal opinion because, this would happen to RG3.   

 

 

 

[RonArtest15]

It's also in the Redskins' best interest to keep Robert healthy so they're not on the hook for 16 mil (I think) next season. 

 

I doubt he takes another meaningful snap in B&G. 

[ShaunAlexanderSkinsYears]

His head is fine. The rg3 experiment is over, a total bust, and now Danny needs to save face. This was the plan all along since at least the end of last season, figure out a way to dump rg3.

Rg3s been Danny's right hand guy since draft day 2012. He mortgaged our future for him and if rg3 fails, it goes down as one of the worst trades in history. Dan Snyder can't handle that.

All was good until rg3 blew his knee out. We all knew it was coming. He come back in 2013 with a ridiculous knee brace saying he "feels great" but runs like Forrest Gump. You know how the rest goes. Danny cuckolds shannahan and brings in Jon gruddens retarded brother. Turns out rg3 is simply an incredible physical talent, with not enough brains to be an nfl quarterback, and not enough social skills to lead a team.

Danny needs a way out, so he hires this new GM, cleans house, and most importantly picks up rg3s option at a ridiculously high dollar amount. We will call this his severance package. We all knew he was finished by the end of last year, so Danny hatches a plan with rg3 to fake a concussion. He comes out with the "I'm the best quarterback in the league" nonsense to make the o-line want to block even less for him, although I don't think he needed any help with that. Now suddenly we have a re evaluation, the day before the point of no return game for rg3. Dan pulled the plug. Don't be surprised to see this" concussion" become a career ender.

Danny has a cop out, and rg3 has a nice little retirement package. Unless he wants to play arena football. Maybe his dad can play on the o line so at least 1 person is blocking for him.

[KDawg]

I'm confused, Ferg. Didn't the INC clear him initially and then unclear him? Maybe I'm not following this correctly...

[London Kev]

For all of you worried about Robert's health, open your ****ing eyes. This is cookie-cutter CYA by the neuro doctor, that's all. He didn't have a concussion, the only thing that got damaged against the Lions was his pride. This whole bull**** diagnosis has now snowballed into predictable ass-covering. Kind of sucks for Robert because he knows he didn't have a concussion but somehow is now caught up in this new paranoia of NFL concussions. He'll be back probably for next pre season game, nothing to see here. 

Thanks Doc, you've certainly put my mind at ease.

 

So in your professional opinion, when you examined Robert, do you think he was just faking it, or did Snyder / Allen / McC / Gruden / The NFL / Cousins / Theismann or The Janitor pay you a nice big fat bribe to falsify his medical records?

[RandyHolt]

I think the reality is Robert had a concussion before that last play. This idea that a neurologist would risk his career to lie for a football team that he doesn't work for all so they can play their back up QB is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If you want Kirk to play, you just bench Robert. They've already done it twice before, why would this be any different?

All fine points; but then the doctors that cleared him before that starting in Detroit should all seek a career change. Was that 3 doctors?

 

This is THE injury under the utmost scrutiny right now. How did so many fumble this one. Do we trust the majority that cleared him, or the lone voice 11th hour guy that we cannot even explain why he got involved?

 

The problem with "just bench Robert" was they already went out of their way to name Robert starter 7 months ago, and it makes Gruden look impatient and incompetent in giving up after what amounts to little more than a half of football. Scot wanted to see him play this year too.

 

It's likely not just doctors flip flopping.

[zoony]

I think the reality is Robert had a concussion before that last play. This idea that a neurologist would risk his career to lie for a football team that he doesn't work for all so they can play their back up QB is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. If you want Kirk to play, you just bench Robert. They've already done it twice before, why would this be any different?

This times infinity. End of discussion

[carex]

If there is an automatic second opinion then the first opinion should not be released 

 

If stuff like this happens to often the whole concussion protocol could end up in major trouble

 

 

*rolls eyes*

You cannot expect us to believe this level of inconsistency is just a coincidence and not the result of a power struggle within the organization.

 

 

what part of INDEPENDENT do you not understand.  He's not part of the organization

[TSO]

How many times has the second opinion differed from the first?

This is also what confuses me. Are we the first team with the first player to ever have this occur?

We totally would be, lol.

Chadwiko Menendez ‏@ChadwikoRCC 7h7 hours ago

Chadwiko Menendez retweeted Jeff Darlington

Jeff Darlington is perhaps the reporter who is closest to Griffin. There's a lot going on here.

Chadwiko Menendez added,

Jeff Darlington @JeffDarlington

RG3 doesn't see benefit in saying much for now, but I'll sum it up for him in a word: Confused. And that has nothing to do with concussion.

Greeeaaaaaaaaaat.

Okay, I'm officially annoyed now.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I had hoped for Skins fans to not add to the overall confusion with genuine thoughts of some sort of conspiracy at work.

That didn't last long lol...

I'm going back into hibernation.

I'm of the opinion that you would be crazy to think their isn't some type of conspiracy in play. Its hard to tell what it is, but a guy doesn't get cleared and then uncleared and announced during the dead zone for the media, Friday night. Particularly for an injury that the injured person doesn't even know when or what happened. There is stuff going on behind the scenes and even Griffin doesn't know what it is. His media buddy Darlington tweeted as much.

[Jacoah]

The tweet from Darlington has me scratching my head. I think at this point it would be in my best interest to ignore this completely and just pretend none of this has happened. I'm taking the enigmatic road of denial. It feels good and everything is rainbows and unicorns.

 

[LD0506]

Man, I used to feel like "Why do I keep putting myself through this?" about the team, now it's more like I feel that way about some of the posts/threads here.

 

So, we'd have to be crazy to believe that TheDan hasn't been pushing shopping carts of cash around to Scot's office, the neurologist, etc., to engineer some unusually weird outcome vis-a-vis our starting QB, all the while being indifferent to anyone noticing or commenting on it? That's it? Seriously?

 

I am more of the mind that these patently loopy, loony conspiracy posts are the result of undiagnosed brain trauma. We need the mods to set up a concussion protocol here, because I swear to God, some people posting are whacked clear the **** outta their minds.

 

I don't know what's going on (again), but after years of following this team I've learned to step back and wait for more info. There seems to be something afoot, but when I have to use two qualifiers in that short a statement I know I don't know enough.

[laxpck]

From the J THeisman sideline clearing announcement quickly walked back, to the cleared/not cleared, to the fact that with my OWN naked eye I watch someone claim to get a concussion when someone falls on their back ( I literally thought it was a labrum injury).

 

This whole thing is the end and it cant come quick enough.

[RonArtest15]

Team needs to cut ties with a lot of people.  Theismann included. 

 

Circus-type atmosphere, and Scot is the only bright spot. 

[laxpck]

Turns out rg3 is simply an incredible physical talent, with not enough brains to be an nfl quarterback, and not enough social skills to lead a team.

 

 

This is the best, most succinct line I have read on the whole thing. Screw having to talk about progressions, presnap reads pocket and situational awareness.

[Rodriggo]

Turns out rg3 is simply an incredible physical talent, with not enough brains to be an nfl quarterback, and not enough social skills to lead a team.

 

Great point. And even though your Danny/RG3 theory is completely ridiculous, I will say in the moment, the whole "injury" felt like a "no mas" to me. The fact that he didn't come back out in street clothes was also a HUGE sign to me that it's just over.

 

LOL, you forgot the part about Clinton Portis behind the grassy noll prepared to interject "concussion protocol."

[CommanderDOOM]

Wow, lets just hit rock bottom now and announce Colt McCoy the starter tonight. stay up Griff.

[laxpck]

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CM5HVYSWoAAmKW1.mp4

 

 

 

I mean where is the violence in the hit to the head that causes a concussion? Having sustained way too many in my own life, your head has to jar your brain into the side of your skull.  That takes impact.  Getting your back jumped on just doesnt do it. 

 

 

So, either he got concussed earlier in the game and doctors failed to hold him out, or

 

Jay knew he got concussed and put him back out there cause he is a meanie like Shanahan, or

 

He was lying there dwelling on his failed NFL instincts and decided his head hurt, or

 

There was a meeting this week that someone with SOME SEMBLANCE of football IQ who said, we know what we got in RGIII and thats not a lot, we better figure out what we got in Cousins before we let him go....and I think the statements about the line and his just being a employee this week were the final straw

 

The concussion didnt happen on that play, and the botched everything from Theisman/Portis to the cleared not cleared tells me it was most likely the last one here.

[gaskinsfan]

This is a simple CYA by the Redskins so they aren't on the hook for 16 mil next year.

I really don't care what it is, just glad we get to see Cousins with the 1's competing against 1's. I am hoping he leads them to a couple of scores and looks great. I think he is the only potential starting QB on the roster.

[sportjunkie07]

Ah so the skins have found a way to be on the hook for 16 million next year. I was wondering what sort of bizarre injury was going to lead to it.

[Taylor703]

I would say I'm shocked that people have bought into the conspiracies but I'm really not. They don't need to lie about Robert having a concussion to bench him. And the reason they're being so cautious is because he was in the game after sustaining the concussion. It wasn't the final blow that gave it to him.

[laxpck]

There was no final blow. So that certainly lends credence to something.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I never bought the conspiracy stuff because honestly that's dumb as hell. I just thought it was incompetence but I guess not

@BrittMcHenry: Told from coaches they were caught off guard to hear RGIII concussion news. Planning for him. Team meeting ended at 9. No plan for changes

@BrittMcHenry: #RGIII concussion: a player can pass a neurological exam & show no symptoms, feel no symptoms, but the neuropsych tests can reveal more

@BrittMcHenry: In this instance, the neurologist can clear a player, but in speaking with neuropsychologists (looking at computer data) reverse decision.

@BrittMcHenry: Important to note: This evaluation is done by an independent neurologist. Not the team. Neuropsych data available when Griffin passed tho

Still the whole thing is weird and seems like something that is just #soskins