Zguy28 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 There is "clinical death" which is the cessation of breathing and blood circulation, but that's not when heroic measures stop especially in cases of trauma. And just the same, just because your blood is circulating doesn't mean you're functionally alive. So, while I do always appreciate the bumper sticker sloganeering they aren't nearly as accurate as they pretend to be, and tend to make the person reciting them look less informed than they may actually be on a certain issue. How have you been doing ASF? Haven't seen you around much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 How have you been doing ASF? Haven't seen you around much. Busy, busy, busy I've been really good, lots of awesome changes in my life and not nearly the free time to be hanging out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Busy, busy, busy I've been really good, lots of awesome changes in my life and not nearly the free time to be hanging out here. Busy is good. Better than being idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Well, gotta say. So far I'm shocked to discover that, if a pregnant woman chooses to say, in writing, that she wants her fetal tissue donated to science, then 1). Planned Parenthood will donate the tissue to scientists. 2). And there's a charge for this, to cover PP's costs. This sure changes my mind. Pretty much. What did people think was happening before this groundbreaking investigative journalism? Seems like the big issue is that the PP folks talk about it in somewhat callous terms. This tends to happen in the medical profession: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1364612/Why-worried-doctor-says-youre-GPO-CLL--GPs-secret-language-revealed.html http://messybeast.com/dragonqueen/medical-acronyms.htm http://www.cracked.com/article_16302_8-medical-terms-your-doctor-uses-to-insult-you.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/28/black-ohio-democrat-rep-black-lives-matter-protesters-should-be-in-front-of-planned-parenthood/ Democrat Ohio state Rep. Bill Patmon addressed participants at a #WomenBetrayed rally Tuesday, joining others in demanding that Planned Parenthood be investigated and defunded.During his address, Patmon said Black Lives Matter protesters – who target police officers – should target Planned Parenthood, which was founded by eugenicist Margaret Sanger. “You hear a lot of demonstrations across the country now about ‘Black Lives Matter,’” said Patmon, who is African-American. “Well they skipped one place. They should be in front of Planned Parenthood.” “You say, ‘Well, you’re kind of strident, aren’t you?’ I say, ‘No, not when 5,499 abortions are in Cuyahoga County, which I happen to represent, and 63 percent of them are black women,’” Patmon continued. He observed that 17 million women who had abortions at Planned Parenthood were black women. “Black lives matter” and “American lives matter,” he added. Rest at link. #blacklivesmatter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yawn. Twisting an other wise important cause into weak attempts to remove women's medical choices and health decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I worked in contracting on the supply side of a hospital for three years. And honestly, this is how we talked. Granted, I wasn't talking about aborted fetuses, but you quickly become fairly cynical and hardened because otherwise, you would spend your days crying. One of the treatments we were on the cutting edge on was these suit like things that basically mirrored the effect of what happened when people fell into frozen lakes. I'm sure everyone has heard the stories of the dudes who fall into frozen lakes, are pulled out 15 minutes later, and are not only able to be revived but suffer minimal - if any - brain damage. During the discussion of costs and use, the most brilliant nurse I ever worked with banged on the table and said, "We used these on patients who should have wound up as gorks in a SNF.....and three days later, they are eating jello and talking to me about the weather...." I was also involved in a very early discussion about using medical waste as fuel for the generators in the hospital. (This became a controversy at another hospital recently because abortions were performed there). I mean, the visual image of this is ugly, and I can see why it's effective propaganda. But this is the language that is used around medical procedures. And to be honest, would a meeting with Planned Parenthood reps using words like "babies" and "funerals" be any better? "See....they know it's a baby. They know they are committing murder!!!" The language is always going to be a problem here, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I have avoided following this story daily due to how the issue was getting blown up as "the outrage of all outrages" by certain media outlets. Is the gist of the story pretty much, patients sign a voluntary waiver to have specimens donated Planned Parenthood then sells these to medical research facilities Employees were "caught" on tape speaking sort of callous about the transactions Is there anything more to this? I am trying to figure where the story here is. Discarded specimens being sold to research facilities is something that shocks people? It obviously doesn't shock the people who are signing the waivers allowing it to be done in the first place. Someone explain the "scandal" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yawn. Twisting an other wise important cause into weak attempts to remove women's medical choices and health decisions. Nobody wants to take away health care. We want the murder of innocent human beings to stop. And to be honest, would a meeting with Planned Parenthood reps using words like "babies" and "funerals" be any better? "See....they know it's a baby. They know they are committing murder!!!" The language is always going to be a problem here, I think. Their not babies remember? Their tissue. Perhaps somebody should sell tee shirts that say "I love my tissue" in a maternity section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 It's an op-ed..but this local op-ed (to us) Mike had a good synopsis of the events. http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article29247004.html Planned Parenthood does important work, but, boy, were its executives stupid. The 26-year-old spokesman for the campaign, David Daleiden, is an alumnus of Live Action, a radical anti-abortion youth group whose specialty is playing gotcha with Planned Parenthood on hidden camera. Its founder, Lila Rose, famously made her bones posing as a 15-year-old girl who wanted an abortion but didn’t want the counselor to report that her fictional boyfriend was an adult, and thus a statutory rape suspect. As a student, Daleiden was temporarily banned from the Pomona College campus for trying to stage a hidden-camera confrontation with a Planned Parenthood speaker. He has told interviewers that he was radicalized as a teen by Rose, whom he met at a Junior State meeting, and that he was the product of a “crisis pregnancy” when his mom was a college student. Now a Fox News celebrity – he was reportedly mobbed last weekend at a conference of the conservative American Legislative Exchange Council – Daleiden has demonstrated that if it serves his cause, he’ll put his parents’ privacy on the table. His mother, Gina Daleiden, isn’t some anonymous figure; she’s a former Davis school trustee and a deputy to Yolo County Supervisor Jim Provenza, a Democrat. The politicians in this mess aren’t much nobler. House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, leaving no wingnut in his caucus behind, has proposed defunding Planned Parenthood even before an investigation. Meanwhile, U.S. Senate candidate and Attorney General Kamala Harris has bowed to pressure from Democrats to “review” Daleiden’s actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Nobody wants to take away health care. We want the murder of innocent human beings to stop. Their not babies remember? Their tissue. Perhaps somebody should sell tee shirts that say "I love my tissue" in a maternity section. Thank you for so clearly demonstrating the fact that language is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Thank you for so clearly demonstrating the fact that language is the problem. You're welcome. But language isn't the problem, its a symptom. The problem is a problem of worldviews. Language just exposes the underlying thoughts and philosophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I've seen these numbers in different charts online a bunch the past few days. I'm wondering, is this accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 i'm curious- why do you think that is? inasmuch as personal experience is such a powerful force when it comes to shaping our beliefs, this seems to go against that. it is kind of a creepy feeling knowing that your parents may have considered aborting you (pretty sure i wasnt planned- or there was at least a ton of instability in my family around the time i was conceived, and my dads pro choice). yikes. i'm not sure if it is all that different from asking yourself "what if when it was my turn.... it turned out to be a BJ night?" it MIGHT be very different, and certainly is some people's eyes. but that is where the disagreement happens. When are "you" really "YOU"? people disagree on that point, and that point is so integral to the whole discussion that lines of reason stop making sense to people on the other side of that key question. Its like trying to discuss the nuances of rocket science when you can't agree on whether or not gravity exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket442Olds Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 [snip] I've seen these numbers in different charts online a bunch the past few days. I'm wondering, is this accurate? Looks to be accurate http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/ Here's their updated actual numbers (last page of the PDF): http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/4013/9611/7243/Planned_Parenthood_Services.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Looks to be accurate http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/ Here's their updated actual numbers (last page of the PDF): http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/4013/9611/7243/Planned_Parenthood_Services.pdf From that link, if you divide 332,278 abortions by 3 million clients, you get 11%. But if you divide 332,278 by 11.4 million services, you get 3% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 From that link, if you divide 332,278 abortions by 3 million clients, you get 11%. But if you divide 332,278 by 11.4 million services, you get 3% And if you treat all of their services that way, then you wind up with a pie chart that equals 364%. In fact, if you do that with all of their services, then STD testing represents 149% Contraception represents 124% Cancer screening is 37% and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket442Olds Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 From that link, if you divide 332,278 abortions by 3 million clients, you get 11%. But if you divide 332,278 by 11.4 million services, you get 3% True, but the statistics didn't state anywhere that the chart was per client, but a percentage of "services". So again, it is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Do I have this correct? People are sad/angry when abortions are performed because a (potential) life is lost. People do not want to fund such actions so they have laws passed restricting funding for abortions. People performing abortions then try to raise money for them. One of the ways they raise money is by selling tissue and organs that may save a life that would otherwise be lost. Should the end result of abortion be allowed to save a life or make one better? Is the problem with the selling of the tissue or its use at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Is the problem with the selling of the tissue or its use at all? The problem is that abortion exists. This "scandal" is simply a technique, to try to change that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Do I have this correct? People are sad/angry when abortions are performed because a (potential) life is lost. People do not want to fund such actions so they have laws passed restricting funding for abortions. People performing abortions then try to raise money for them. One of the ways they raise money is by selling tissue and organs that may save a life that would otherwise be lost. Should the end result of abortion be allowed to save a life or make one better? Is the problem with the selling of the tissue or its use at all? They say they only recoup costs associated with transport and storage, not raise money. People are sad/angry because unborn babies are treated by some folks like Jews in 1930's Germany. The problem is that abortion exists. This "scandal" is simply a technique, to try to change that fact. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 The question here, in my mind is who is buying the body parts and how are they making money? If planned parenthood is only charging for expenses, which I believe to be highly questionable, who is buying them and how are they making money? If you can prove that it is strictly NFP then you realy don't have a case. However, if they are being sold to company who are making profit, then I think you have something. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Seems to me that the best way to continue support for Planned Parenthood, and basically take the bat out of the hands of those who don't want it supported through taxs, is to simply stop the practice of abortions at planned parenthood. The charts seem to suggest that the number of abortions, with respects the their total directives, are minimul. There are many other means available to have such procedures done. Honestly, PPH should just get out of this business entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 They say they only recoup costs associated with transport and storage, not raise money. People are sad/angry because unborn babies are treated by some folks like Jews in 1930's Germany. Yes. Please elaborate on the bolded section above. I wish these same people that are anti-choice and scream about defunding PP cared as much about those that are born as they do about the unborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Please elaborate on the bolded section above. I wish these same people that are anti-choice and scream about defunding PP cared as much about those that are born as they do about the unborn. They're rounded up and either executed or sent to labor camps, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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