twa Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm calling bull****. How many uses are there for undeveloped body parts from a fetus? Can anyone name one? At $30-$100 each, how many would you have to sell to make a profit and how could you hide such a quantity for so long? Frankly I dont trust anything from the new breed of "documentary" film makers. Michael Moore (may he rot in hell) made creative editing an accepted medium for creating outrage. New techniques and software only make it easier to distort reality beyond recognition. To quote Carl Sagan: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” Oh ye of little faith, a science denier are ye? http://www.livescience.com/49503-human-kidneys-grown-in-rats.html?cmpid=558958 Researchers say they have developed a new technique that will get more kidneys to people who need transplants, but the method is sure to be controversial: The research shows that it is feasible to remove a kidney from an aborted human fetus, and implant the organ into a rat, where the kidney can grow to a larger size. It's possible that further work could find a way to grow kidneys large enough that they could be transplanted into a person, the researchers said, although much more research is needed to determine whether this could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm a physician with a specialty in newborn liver disease. I take care of some of the sickest and smallest liver patients in the world. A big part of my efforts is coming up with new and better ways to treat them, including creative transplant ideas. I've been to meetings about these patients all over the world and worked with biotech startups and pharma companies big and small. I've never (ever) heard of anyone buying discarded liver bits from abortions. I'm calling BS. Big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 why discarded liver bits?...whole ones would seem better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 why discarded liver bits?...whole ones would seem better Actually, you're completely wrong. But either that's neither here nor there nor unusual. To clarify - I've never heard of anyone buying livers (whole or otherwise) or any other organs or any cells or any other remnants from any abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Actually, you're completely wrong. But either that's neither here nor there nor unusual. To clarify - I've never heard of anyone buying livers (whole or otherwise) or any other organs or any cells or any other remnants from any abortion. But Obama ya'll /twa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Actually, you're completely wrong. But either that's neither here nor there nor unusual. To clarify - I've never heard of anyone buying livers (whole or otherwise) or any other organs or any cells or any other remnants from any abortion. the live science article clearly states I am right, livers, kidneys, hearts and more have been acquired AND used. That there have not been transplants into humans here is simply a matter of time. HOW am I wrong??????? add In addition to kidneys, the researchers have also transplanted human fetal hearts into rats, Gu said. The work is still in progress, but the researchers said it may also be possible to use the method with other organs. "This technology is applicable not just to the kidney, but to every kind of [blood-supplied] organ in the body," Gu said. In the short term, fetal organs grown in animals could be used to test drugs that can't normally be tested in living humans. Ultimately, the researchers plan to transplant the kidneys into larger animals, such as pigs, where the organs could grow large enough to be transplanted back into people, Gu said. But this idea may be controversial among the American public, bioethicists say. http://www.livescience.com/49503-human-kidneys-grown-in-rats.html?cmpid=558958 edumacate me In the new study, Gu and his colleagues obtained human fetal kidneys from Stem Express, a Placerville, California-based company that supplies researchers with tissue from deceased adults and fetuses. The people who donated the fetal tissues gave consent for the kidneys to be used in research, and the scientists were completely separated from the donation process, Gu said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Actually, you're completely wrong. But either that's neither here nor there nor unusual. To clarify - I've never heard of anyone buying livers (whole or otherwise) or any other organs or any cells or any other remnants from any abortion. http://www.atmjournal.org/article/view/1187/1556 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm sorry twa. I'm going have to go with the knowledge and expertise of the guy who claims to be a newborn physician. The one who would probably have experience with that sort of thing. I'm sure we all want Planned Parenthood to be an evil organization that is harvesting baby brains from unwilling patients but the sad fact of the matter is that they're probably no different than a dentist extracting wisdom teeth or preforming a root canal. Now. Any field will have some bad apples, that doesn't mean that even if one of these Planned Parenthood baby murderers does something against the rules that they all throw caution to the wind and break all the laws ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 http://www.atmjournal.org/article/view/1187/1556 The entire point of that article is that isolated liver cells are more useful than whole organs. Like I said. Also, to expound on my earlier points - I do know some excellent researchers in the field who study the potential use of fetal cells as a source for curative treatment for some awful diseases. The vast majority of that work is still in animal model stages. The few people I know who have looked into human fetal cells have gotten those cells from academic centers where women undergoing pregnancy termination may (or may not) consent that some samples from their abortions may be used for research. Similar to samples from surgeries or left over blood samples. I still haven't heard of anyone buying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm sorry twa. I'm going have to go with the knowledge and expertise of the guy who claims to be a newborn physician. The one who would probably have experience with that sort of thing. As for me, I'm going with the guy who read an article on the internet. Typical that you'd side with the educated elite. They think they're better than us. They are not to be trusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm sure we all want Planned Parenthood to be an evil organization that is harvesting baby brains from unwilling patients but the sad fact of the matter is that they're probably no different than a dentist extracting wisdom teeth or preforming a root canal. Can a fetus sign a consent form to be extinguished? btw....the Swedes have implanted fetal brain tissue into humans. the sale part may be overstated, but costs reimbursed is certainly done.....might even be like the lemonade stand sale vs donation. ya still get the goods and pay/collect. As for me, I'm going with the guy who read an article on the internet. Typical that you'd side with the educated elite. They think they're better than us. They are not to be trusted. many articles science denier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The entire point of that article is that isolated liver cells are more useful than whole organs. Like I said. Also, to expound on my earlier points - I do know some excellent researchers in the field who study the potential use of fetal cells as a source for curative treatment for some awful diseases. The vast majority of that work is still in animal model stages. The few people I know who have looked into human fetal cells have gotten those cells from academic centers where women undergoing pregnancy termination may (or may not) consent that some samples from their abortions may be used for research. Similar to samples from surgeries or left over blood samples. I still haven't heard of anyone buying them. And it specifically points to fetal liver cells. And as twa has pointed out, there are multiple studies and research in to this. Peer reviewed journals > Dude on the internet (even if he is a doctor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarpon75 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm not sure what sickens me more, the trafficking of baby parts or that the CEO makes $600,000 a year off what they do and the top leaders collectively are in the millions. That a heck of a non-profit. http://m.aleteia.org/en/society/article/planned-parenthood-head-earns-almost-600000-5771741422944256 Yet taxpayers help fund it and our President lauds them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Oh ye of little faith, a science denier are ye? http://www.livescience.com/49503-human-kidneys-grown-in-rats.html?cmpid=558958 Researchers say they have developed a new technique that will get more kidneys to people who need transplants, but the method is sure to be controversial: The research shows that it is feasible to remove a kidney from an aborted human fetus, and implant the organ into a rat, where the kidney can grow to a larger size. It's possible that further work could find a way to grow kidneys large enough that they could be transplanted into a person, the researchers said, although much more research is needed to determine whether this could be done. What part of this did you fail to comprehend? The video claims that PP is making a profit from selling organs SCIENCE says that they haven't actually found a way to use them yet. Science supports my position that the video is bull****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yet taxpayers help fund it and our President lauds them. They provide valuable health services and contraception for little to no cost. Perhaps there should be another organization that offers the same but has a decidedly anti-abortion stance. What part of this did you fail to comprehend? The video claims that PP is making a profit from selling organs SCIENCE says that they haven't actually found a way to use them yet. Science supports my position that the video is bull****. Just because science hasn't found a way to use them does not make them worthless. Science hasn't found a way to use a lot of things, but they still have them. That's pretty much the purpose of science. To make discoveries in to the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 And it specifically points to fetal liver cells. And as twa has pointed out, there are multiple studies and research in to this. Peer reviewed journals > Dude on the internet (even if he is a doctor). He (bcl05) is focused on available treatments whereas those are research which operate under looser ethics but if they want source material Source: Chang NK, Gu J, Gu S, et al. Arterial Flow Regulator Enables Transplantation and Growth of Human Fetal Kidneys in Rats. American Journal of Transplantation. 2015. research has been done for a long time in this area and obstacles continue to be overcome They provide valuable health services and contraception for little to no cost. Perhaps there should be another organization that offers the same but has a decidedly anti-abortion stance. Just because science hasn't found a way to use them does not make them worthless. Science hasn't found a way to use a lot of things, but they still have them. That's pretty much the purpose of science. To make discoveries in to the unknown. there is a market for fetal organs and tissue, and suppliers, drug testing is a major one in the future.......................especially since they solved the blood pressure imbalance problem and they remain viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The evils of Planned Parenthood... America Used to Agree on Public Funding for Family Planning. What Happened? In 1969, an enthusiastic supporter of publicly-funded family planning services sent a message to Congress. "It is clear that the domestic family planning services supported by the Federal Government should be expanded and better integrated," he wrote . "It is my view that no American woman should be denied access to family planning assistance because of her economic condition." These words did not come from a Planned Parenthood official or a radical feminist. They came from President Richard Nixon, and at the time they were hardly revolutionary. In June 1972, a Gallup poll showed that 64 percent of respondents-including 68 percent of Republicans and 56 percent of Catholics-agreed with the statement that "the decision to have an abortion should be made solely by a woman and her physician." But abortion opponents quickly ramped up their organizing efforts, especially in the wake of the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision. They linked abortion to the breakdown of the nuclear family and to women’s abdication of their maternal roles, and by portraying women’s reproductive choices as anti-family, they tarred all family planning programs with the same critique. Not a single Title X dollar has ever been spent on abortion care, but opponents succeeded in convincing many Americans that women’s reproductive autonomy was a threat to the family and to society at large. That meant that contraception, not just abortion, was the real target. Federal funding for Title X and other family planning programs peaked in the early 1970s, declined into the early 1980s, and has remained basically steady ever since. Although the Republicans who led the charge against Title X last week claimed that they wanted to defund Planned Parenthood’s abortion services, the outcome of their effort would be much larger: If it passes in the Senate it would undermine basic gynecological and preventive health care for nearly 5 million women across the country. Clearly, then, the Republican House leadership has no problem with obliterating all family-planning services for low-income women, not just abortion services. Political Attacks on Planned Parenthood Are a Threat to Women's Health - Scientific American Family planning has benefited society in numerous ways. It has saved lives, opened new horizons for women and kept populations from soaring. Since 1965, the year the Supreme Court struck down a Connecticut law that made access to contraception illegal, women’s ability to plan and space out pregnancies has contributed to a 60 percent decline in maternal deaths. By 2002, moreover, only 9 percent of births were unwanted, compared with 20 percent in the early 1960s. As a major provider of contraceptives—it furnished birth control to two million Americans last year—Planned Parenthood serves as “America’s largest abortion preventer,” as one Chicago Tribunewriter pointed out. They provide valuable health services and contraception for little to no cost. Perhaps there should be another organization that offers the same but has a decidedly anti-abortion stance. Just because science hasn't found a way to use them does not make them worthless. Science hasn't found a way to use a lot of things, but they still have them. That's pretty much the purpose of science. To make discoveries in to the unknown. The video claims PP is profiting from the sale of organs. economics 101... $30 to $100 per fetus is NOT going to make a profit without serious volume. Research does not need volume. It doesn't even sound like enough to pay for the cost of usable storage and transportation. AND.... if there was a value to the buyer as a seller of organs for transplant, why would you sell something the organ seller needs so cheap? Apply a little logic and none of it makes sense. The video is total and utter bull***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Family planning is a good thing imo, killing your mistakes less so. Get your **** together and ya eliminate the need in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Peer reviewed journals > Dude on the internet (even if he is a doctor). So I can count on you as a believer of human caused global warming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm having a vision of the far right Donald Trumps and the far left Ted Turners of the world... They disagree on just about everything but behind closed doors in their secret once a year weekend conference, they finally admit that they both love planned parenthood because it gets rid of a lot of potentially dumb people. Then the Donald Trumps admit that they need dumb people to build their hotels, and the Ted Turners admit that they need dumb people to save (and to make them feel good about themselves while lighting cigars with $100 bills). So again they find common ground. Then the weekend comes to an end and they go back to either hating planned parenthood because it kills too many potentially dumb people (Trumps), or loving it because it gives actual dumb people the right to not create more dumb people (Turners). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Family planning is a good thing imo, killing your mistakes less so. Get your **** together and ya eliminate the need in most cases. Run for Senate. This quote right here will get ya at least 4% of the primary vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm a physician with a specialty in newborn liver disease. I take care of some of the sickest and smallest liver patients in the world. A big part of my efforts is coming up with new and better ways to treat them, including creative transplant ideas. I've been to meetings about these patients all over the world and worked with biotech startups and pharma companies big and small. I've never (ever) heard of anyone buying discarded liver bits from abortions. I'm calling BS. Big time. well apparently somebody buys them. Read the text yourself. This is a fairly balanced article: http://mashable.com/2015/07/14/undercover-video-planned-parenthood/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 So I can count on you as a believer of human caused global warming? You can count me in on that one as long as I can still believe in Bigfoot and aliens despite all the "evidence" to the contrary. Actually I would find it pretty difficult not to believe in Bigfoot considering that I had coffee with him last Thursday in Annapolis. He's actually getting his MBA now through an online program so he's working like 60 hours a week between that and ****ing with those guys that on the NatGeo and discovery channels. Glad I could get the guy out for a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I don't see the problem, Why worry over the sale of remains of someone after ya allow to have their skull crushed or dismembered? not like they are serving them in restaurants. I was going to post something a little less graphic. Does selling the parts somehow make it worse than throwing the parts out as medical waste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The evils of Planned Parenthood... America Used to Agree on Public Funding for Family Planning. What Happened? Political Attacks on Planned Parenthood Are a Threat to Women's Health - Scientific American The video claims PP is profiting from the sale of organs. economics 101... $30 to $100 per fetus is NOT going to make a profit without serious volume. Research does not need volume. It doesn't even sound like enough to pay for the cost of usable storage and transportation. AND.... if there was a value to the buyer as a seller of organs for transplant, why would you sell something the organ seller needs so cheap? Apply a little logic and none of it makes sense. The video is total and utter bull***. I don't know about that. I don't neccearily believe that the sales aspect would increase your standard office overhead costs, and it definitely wouldn't if you farmed out the process to independent commissioned sales associates. You can control costs better that way, even if you are putting a lower ceiling on your ultimate profits. You could also depreciate the fetuses and report the losses on your annual tax returns to decrease your overall tax liabilities for monies earned through performing abortions. It's a good mix of goods and services that should give your CPA some real material to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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